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Old 12-29-2018, 02:45 AM   #1
Doppleganger
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Super Mario Bros. is hard

I've played other Mario games, and Mario fan flash games. I don't know what it is about the original, but it's very punishing for difficulty. There's very little invulnerability after Mario takes a hit, and his hitbox is pretty large. The game also seems to make a distinction between "in the air" and actual jumps, like if I'm hit during an ascent but before a descent, that isn't a jump, it's being hit in the air (like with the flying fish on 2-3).

Mario also feels heavy and there's little opportunity for correction on jumps. Almost like there's a momentum system, and you can only correct a jump so much.

I've been playing for days and have mostly failed to make much progress.

-I've never cleared World 1, as I only knew the warp zones until recently
-After much practice I've gotten through World 2 a couple tries, but I usually die to the flying fish
-I can clear World 3 pretty consistently
-I've never cleared World 4, warping to World 5 each time
-I've never cleared World 5

That's it! This is the most punishing platformer I can remember, even tougher than Claw which was also a "heavy" jump game, but still had a good margin for error and meatier aerial correction.

Why so tough? Is it because Mario is hungry for quarters, that he can't get enough coins in game to cover his living expenses?!
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:48 AM   #2
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Are you playing with an original NES controller?

I kind of agree with you on the whole momentum thing, going back and playing the original Mario has always felt a little slip and slidy to me, sort of like how Luigi feels when they make platformers with Mario and Luigi as separate characters with different properties.

I've definitely beaten the game before but it's been a loooooong time. And now that you mention it I don't think I've ever beaten it without warps. Whoops.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:27 PM   #3
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I am using keyboard. It would probably be easier with a controller just because it would be more sensitive to cancels than my busted up keyboard is.

I just discovered the hidden vine to warp to 6, 7, 8. When playing, I thought you had to play clear all eight worlds to face the real Bowser, but it looks like warping only allows you to skip a world. Knowing that 8 is the final level, I feel less urgency to beat the game and more to beat every world. I was fine with skipping the harder levels first when I thought I'd be facing them later, but knowing the apparent truth, I don't want to skip game content.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:32 PM   #4
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Wait, have you never watched an SMB speedrun before? I'm kind of surprised you didn't know that vine existed, for someone who has been on the internet a lot longer than I have ^^;
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Old 12-29-2018, 07:22 PM   #5
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Nein. I actually have very little exposure to Nintendo games. I played A Link to the Past for the first time either earlier this year or early last year.

2-3: I think this is the flying fish stage and I finally recognized their pattern. It was a lot harder to do when I only had 2 lives, but with a stock of 7 I was able to take the time to notice their descending arc, which made avoiding them much easier. Initially, I thought they were coming at random from both top and bottom.

I still haven't beaten World 4 because for whatever reason, the regular pipe won't let me forward so I have to use the World 5 warp.
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:56 PM   #6
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I kinda like the fish out of water levels. You can just book it and save for flubbing a jump you'll be pretty safe yet look/feel cool all the way. Going fast in early Mario's was much more viable and beneficial than Sonics!
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:22 PM   #7
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Are you grabbing like every coin and brick or are you just trying to get the stages done quickly? Super Mario Bros is pretty quick to speedrun even without warps.

Back in the day I don't think I ran into problems until like world 7 with the Bullet Bills and Hammer Bros. For the most part, speed is probably the most important thing to get through stages. It sounds weird since you more time to dodge or kill enemies, but the slower you are the easier it is for them to hit you. Also, if you have the fire flower, you can pretty much easily clear most stages without major issues. Especially the castle stages.

There's a lot of weird hitboxes too. Like piranha plants are deadly at the stem/stalk, not their bulb. You can also kill enemies by jumping on their face rather than going for the top of their heads, which lets you kind of keep going forward in many scenarios.
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Old 12-30-2018, 07:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Are you grabbing like every coin and brick or are you just trying to get the stages done quickly? Super Mario Bros is pretty quick to speedrun even without warps.

Back in the day I don't think I ran into problems until like world 7 with the Bullet Bills and Hammer Bros. For the most part, speed is probably the most important thing to get through stages. It sounds weird since you more time to dodge or kill enemies, but the slower you are the easier it is for them to hit you. Also, if you have the fire flower, you can pretty much easily clear most stages without major issues. Especially the castle stages.
I was doing this for a while to build up some life stock - for some reason, the 1UPs in 1-1 and 1-2 give two lives instead of one. When I got to 8-2, holding back for the 1UP usually led to massive bullet spam.

I definitely am struggling with 8-2 and 7-1. 8-2 is sort of simple in that you only need to be aware of the bullets in your plane or above you when you jump, but you need to skirt close to the edge of the gun to clear the pit, and Mario's hitbox is weird/large in any form where the Koopa Troopa will hit him while jumping, and lose its wings in the process. I don't know why that happens, but it's the tipping point with making a tough level pretty much impossible.

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There's a lot of weird hitboxes too. Like piranha plants are deadly at the stem/stalk, not their bulb. You can also kill enemies by jumping on their face rather than going for the top of their heads, which lets you kind of keep going forward in many scenarios.
The goomba spacing discourages this, I noticed that some of the goombas are separated just enough so that if you try to chain combo jumps, you will just die instead.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:13 PM   #9
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You probably waste more lives building up coins for a 1UP than actually skipping it all and just running through the game.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:19 PM   #10
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Yep. This is the formula I'm using now:

-Clear 1-1, get 1UP (+1 or +2 lives)
-Clear 2-1, get 1UP (+1 or +2 lives)
-Warp to 4-1
-Clear 4-1, get 1UP (+1 lives)
-Warp to 8-1

I'm around 70-80 coins by this point, and have 6-8 lives depending on what the 1UPs hand me.

I've made progress in 8-2 by trying to speed through it, but I've been messed up by the last jump where you have to jump on a bullet to totally clear the gorge and get to the next piranha plant.
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:43 PM   #11
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Almost two weeks later I'm still stuck at 8-2, so I watched some YouTube videos to try and emulate how they beat the level, and I made a startling revelation.



Welp. This isn't the same 8-2 NES players faced.

I'm facing something much harder where the bullets are being fired well off screen, faster, from both sides of the stage.

I admit I struggled early with adjusting to how the platformer performs, but even after that period I'm still getting by potato bag kicked in by this beast.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:10 AM   #12
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So in desperation I read the manual for Super Mario Bros. HTML5 and there is a sprint option by holding "FIRE". Intuitively, I felt like that was what was missing in this level and I was able to (barely) make it to 8-3 after exhausting all by 2 lives.

I promptly died but I'm ok with that. Just beating this nightmare once was good enough for now.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:46 AM   #13
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That looks like a complex in-game hint for a cheat code tbh.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:29 AM   #14
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The game is a glitchy, choppy mess that makes Pokemon Red look as smooth as greased lightning.

The glitch that allows bullets to shoot across the entire stage also lags the game, which slows Mario down and makes him less responsive to commands.

8-3 is an insanely difficult, luck-heavy level because once you get to Super Mario, he's too large to dodge the bullets, making waiting for the hammer bros to be easy to defeat trouble. The number of bullets on the stage increases with time, as does the lag because of those bullets, making it harder to dodge the hammer bros and even get through the ledges because they're bricked by bullets.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:58 AM   #15
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I made it to 8-3 with 99 lives (which I built up by redoing 1-1 over and over). I'm currently at 53. Because the game is so laggy and projectile heavy, it's hard/impossible to get the fire flower to defeat the Hammer Bros. at the end. Super Mario is too tall, and the double bullets from off screen are a guaranteed kill.

I found the closest way out is to rush to the end, hit one of the Koopa to free up his shell, then use the shell to kill the first two Hammer Bros., then it's basically luck trying to get past the last two.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:09 AM   #16
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I think you need to play a realistic copy of the game. Or a better emulator. Cause the game literally takes like 20 minutes to speed run and like an hour if you're bad at it.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:04 PM   #17
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I might, but I beat 8-3 and made it to 8-4 with 5 lives, then lost. I failed to get past the water stage as small Mario.

I went through the entire 99 life stock trying to get through 8-3, but I did manage to find a pattern than worked:

-run under the first set of Hammer Bros.
-jump over the second set of Hammer Bros.
-leap far enough to land on the Koopa
-launch the Koopa shell to kill the next set of Hammer Bros.
-jump high enough to kill the first Hammer Bro. of the last set
-hug the second one, then dash underneath when he runs to get to the end

It's still horribly RNG based, since the second set of Hammer Bros. can't be on the top ledge or you can't run over them, and if you are slow the Koopa suicides so you cannot get past the next set of Hammer Bros. With no Fire Flower or mushroom to go Super Mario, 8-4 becomes a lot more perilous.

The four you dodge also follow you, showering the game offscreen with a waterfall of hammers and lagging the fudge out of it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:22 AM   #18
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I had 107 lives and managed to get past 8-3 losing only about 10.

After dropping another 40, after hours of practice needing to probe how to kill the solo Hammer Brother consistently, I finally got past Bowser.



!!!!

The game also locks up at this stage. There's nothing after 8-4, so the game doesn't know where to take me. I had all the time in the world to snap this horror.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:26 AM   #19
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Your experiences might be better if you played on a real emulator/game instead of a web based emulator.
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:14 AM   #20
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Yeah 99% sure that's not an actual, legitimate version of the game because the game is supposed to actually end at 8-4 like intended.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:57 PM   #21
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Yeah 99% sure that's not an actual, legitimate version of the game because the game is supposed to actually end at 8-4 like intended.
Dopple is a cheater.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:15 AM   #22
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I'm going to play a legit version but I recently archived my SNES emulator. Last game I played on it was Zelda (which I appreciated).

For curiosity, I explored other levels in HTML5 and 4-4 is bugged too. It loops (which the real 4-4 does not) and the walls are invisible.

Ultimately, this thing is a POS.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:47 PM   #23
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I'm playing a legit version of Super Mario World (I presume, the SNES sequel to Bros.).

It's hard in its own way. It definitely feels like Mario is on a slippery floor, and the controls are much more complicated.

However, though difficult, it isn't nearly as punishing as HTML5. That's because it's generously rewarding with extra lives: the Dragon Coins, regular coins and 1UP mushrooms are plentiful. Yoshi, the Big Mushroom and holding an item means Mario can tank more hits than ever.

Yoshi is pretty tough to handle though. I struggle with the A+SELECT motions, since I use select to sprint.
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:47 PM   #24
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Super Mario World

I beat this! I played a lot more than I bargained for, as this game's levels are longer and no less slippery than Super Mario Bros. and I got lost in the Dinosaur Land. I cleared the Star World early, but ended up going the long way anyway and ended up at Bowser's Back Door!

What I said earlier holds up. I think this game is easier than the 8-bit original, because it's easy to grind lives, and you can take more hits. It's more difficult to navigate and the controls are much more complex. I never learned how to fly properly, nor did I find the Green Button.

Also, Peach is cute in this game. I don't like her modern appearance at all.

Oh, and that Bowser final fight sucked. What makes Bowser intimidating for Mario is his spiked back means Mario can't jump on him. Having Bowser fly around in a flying saucer with a clown face and chuck lame robots at Mario is stupid. Throwing the robots into the saucer was technically difficult.

For SNES games, I thought the final fight with Ganon in A Link to the Past was way more hype, although it was less impressive to me than the Oracle ones.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:12 PM   #25
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I beat Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island...or so I thought. To my horror, it turns out the game is a ROMHACK of Yoshi's Island, cutting out significant amounts of content and glorifying the creator, who went by the nickname "Golden Yoshi".

Now I have to hunt down the real game...but this really has me questioning why romhack creators are so narcissistic. It's like they can't design a game without erecting shrines to themselves in the game. Like the famous Pokemon Crystal Clear - a game better than GSC, despite GSC being great, until you get to the Elite Four and Champion, who are none other than the romhack's creators and his four beta testers.

How split brain do you have to be to create this great game, and ruin it with inferiority complex fueled egoism?
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