Online Competitive Pokemon Battle Showdown Happy Fun Times

[Red Panda]

For the Legendary of Life it sure causes a lot of Death

Spoiler: show

When we say that Xerneas is basically broken in Randbats, we mean it. The only two pokemon that would resist all of its moves would be the Nidos. Normally, Xerneas is a late game sweeper, but with the Bastiodon asleep (with its likely moves being Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Metal Burst/Toxic/Roar/Stealth Rock) I was pretty confident is setting up. And then Xerneas put this team to rest. Without Xerneas, I don't think I would've won. Raticate, Zoroark, and Flygon are all decent enough and my second best pokemon was Nidoqueen who lacked Ice Beam AND Sludge Wave.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

For the Legendary of Life it sure causes a lot of Death

Spoiler: show

When we say that Xerneas is basically broken in Randbats, we mean it. The only two pokemon that would resist all of its moves would be the Nidos. Normally, Xerneas is a late game sweeper, but with the Bastiodon asleep (with its likely moves being Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Metal Burst/Toxic/Roar/Stealth Rock) I was pretty confident is setting up. And then Xerneas put this team to rest. Without Xerneas, I don't think I would've won. Raticate, Zoroark, and Flygon are all decent enough and my second best pokemon was Nidoqueen who lacked Ice Beam AND Sludge Wave.

1784!? O_o I didn't realize someone else had joined the club in laddering in Random Battle. Congratulations on your high score. Apparently it's only good enough for 287th place these days >_< , but that's still a higher score than I think any of my accounts currently possesses. Good job!

[Red Panda]

Thanks Talon! Last night I had a few lucky games that involved forfeits, parahax, and critical hits, and I even managed to get to 1830! But alas, my lucky streak has ended so I continue to hover where I am. I kinda just do what Daisy did: play when I'm bored, which tends to happen a lot.

And while your accounts may not currently have a higher score, I'm sure that you're just as skilled, if not more. You seem to be playing VGC and Random Doubles too, so there's that.

[Cloneblazer12]

Bringing down the BP

Im not gonna bother spoilering this because theres not much to say. Sand Rush Excadrill clutched it for me by getting the crit I needed.

But lets just say that BP is really unhealthy for the meta right now. Even counter teams have problems with it.

[Rangeet]

Fuck yeah, legendaries!!

Spoiler: show

I made a lot of misplays, one of the biggest ones I think using U-turn on Gastrodon instead of finishing it off- I figured for sure he'd switch, but apparently not. Might have lost if not for some useful Serene Grace abuse on Chatot(and before that, Air Slash on Gastrodon.) Also momentarily forgot that Mega-Gyarados is Water/Dark, but luckily that wasn't a big problem. I think the most surprising thing was that I still managed to win after making all those mistakes, tbh. Mostly due to Deoxys-A, without who I'd never have killed Gyara(I ended up doing it with Hera, but that wasn't what I expected.) But I think my overall MVP was Jirachi.

[Talon87]

Wherein my five-year-old laser mouse is a jerk. (VGC 2014, 11 turns)

Spoiler: show

On Turn 9, I clicked on Brave Bird and then my mouse clicked a second time immediately, selecting Rotom-W as the target for the attack. I didn't even have time to notice: the attack orders went through immediately, my opponent having already sent his through, and before I knew it I tossed a 3-0 victory in the trash in exchange for an easy 2-0 victory. I'd have been upset had it cost me the match, but thankfully it did not.

My mouse has been doing this for the past three or four months. This just happens to be the first (or second?) time I've been burned by it like this. Every other time it's either not double-clicked in PS games (thank God) or it has but I've been able to cancel the orders and re-order before anything was pushed through (thank God again).

[Red Panda]

Sometimes the cancel fails to go through or something for me, because even after I hit cancel and select something else it occasionally still goes through.

[phoopes]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

Sometimes the cancel fails to go through or something for me, because even after I hit cancel and select something else it occasionally still goes through.

This has been a problem for the longest time. It all has to do with lag. Whenever we have a crapton of users it puts stress on the servers and lag happens. The cancel button malfunctioning is a result of that.

[rotomotorz]

I never use cancel even if I put in the wrong orders. Treat it like the game, guys :P

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by rotomotorz

I never use cancel even if I put in the wrong orders. Treat it like the game, guys :P

Pretty sure my 2DS doesn't have a sticky A button. Also pretty sure that an ally is not the default target when entering doubles commands and that you'd actually have to navigate over to an ally to select it.

[rotomotorz]

Literally just played 4 games which I got uber haxed every time and now I'm back in the upper 1200s. Wow.

[Princess Ana]

The based Kecleon swings the game back to victory!

[Talon87]

VGC and its crazy love of protection. (VGC 2014, 10 turns)

Spoiler: show

This was a pretty crazy match. He got off several critical flinches on my Rotom-W. He also made a ballsy switch -- after seeing my Rotom-W attempt to Hydro Pump his Tyranitar, he opts to switch Tyranitar out for the water-weak Talonflame! It pays off for him since I just so happened to switch gears that turn, expecting a Venusaur switch-in, and fired off a Will-o-Wisp as it seemed the safest way to hedge my bets. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect he'd send out the firebird -- and I guess that's why it worked so well for him.

Or at least in theory. Because he then leaves Talonflame out to eat a new Hydro Pump attack, one that OHKOes it. And I do some pretty tricky things myself. A few strategic switches here or there to mitigate the damage his two bruisers, Tyranitar and Aegislash, are doing. Some clutch Protects by Bisharp that absorb enemy attacks meant for him and him alone. Decisions like these render the match a close one right up 'til the very end.

When it was down to our last two, I didn't realize that it was. I thought he still had someone left waiting in the wings behind Venusaur and Tyranitar. So when it ended up being just Mega Kangaskhan vs. a half-dead Tyranitar, I knew this was it. Wake up and win with Power-up Punch. Or stay asleep and lose to who knows what. I wake up and that's game.

[rotomotorz]

Originally Posted by Talon87

VGC and its crazy love of protection. (VGC 2014, 10 turns)

Spoiler: show

This was a pretty crazy match. He got off several critical flinches on my Rotom-W. He also made a ballsy switch -- after seeing my Rotom-W attempt to Hydro Pump his Tyranitar, he opts to switch Tyranitar out for the water-weak Talonflame! It pays off for him since I just so happened to switch gears that turn, expecting a Venusaur switch-in, and fired off a Will-o-Wisp as it seemed the safest way to hedge my bets. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect he'd send out the firebird -- and I guess that's why it worked so well for him.

Or at least in theory. Because he then leaves Talonflame out to eat a new Hydro Pump attack, one that OHKOes it. And I do some pretty tricky things myself. A few strategic switches here or there to mitigate the damage his two bruisers, Tyranitar and Aegislash, are doing. Some clutch Protects by Bisharp that absorb enemy attacks meant for him and him alone. Decisions like these render the match a close one right up 'til the very end.

When it was down to our last two, I didn't realize that it was. I thought he still had someone left waiting in the wings behind Venusaur and Tyranitar. So when it ended up being just Mega Kangaskhan vs. a half-dead Tyranitar, I knew this was it. Wake up and win with Power-up Punch. Or stay asleep and lose to who knows what. I wake up and that's game.

What's your Bisharp's moveset? I tried every which way to fit Protect on mine but I've used every move :/

The Power of Aerodactyl (VGC 2014)

Spoiler: show

SO Aerodactyl is a great support Pokemon. I use a Rotom-W and Aerodactyl lead to draw attention away from Aerodactyl. Since Rotom-W poses burn threats to Hariyama and SE threats to Charizard, Hariyama with use Fake Out on Rotom instead of Aerodactyl, allowing Aerodactyl to get a free Tailwind up. This works on Kangakhan and Mienshao too. With nothing better to do, I go for Rock Slide from Aerodactyl, and attempt to burn the Hariyama, but he predicted the burn, switching out to a burn immune Pokemon named Charizard. Right into my Rock Slide...which missed. Thankfully, it got the flinch on Rotom-W so I didn't have to worry about burning. I could use Taunt but I decide to focus of Charizard, pulling another Rock Slide which would've KOed it, but it Mega'ed and on top of that it used Protect so no free damage there I targeted Rotom with my Rotom, hoping to KO his Rotom, which didn't quite happen. Bracing for the worst, his Rotom flinched! Stalling his time, he uses Protect on his Rotom and targets my Rotom with Mega Charizard, while Rock Slide does nots of fun damage to the Mega Charizard and my Rotom's bulk surviving the Dragon Claw and eating its Sitrus Berry. I also reveal my double status on Rotom by paralyzing Mega Charizard X so I could KO it with Rotom even after Tailwind ended. One Rock Slide later both his Rotom-W and his Charizard are down. T-tar and Hariyama come back out. AGain, with Rotom drawing attention, Aerodactyl got another Tailwind set up, allowing Rotom to outspeed T-tar even if it was scarfed. Unfortunately Rotom-W fainted due to sandstorm, so Charizard come out. Since Charizard and Aerodactyl are both Rock Slide weak, I predict a double Rock Slide, revealing Wide Guard on my Aerodactyl, allowing Mega Charizard Y to OHKO T-tar with Solarbeam and focus now on just Hariyama. Forfeit

[Talon87]

Swords Dance | Sucker Punch | Iron Head | Protect

Protect replaced Brick Break, a move I thought would be amazing for smashing enemy screens but ended up proving really, really shitty on Bisharp because a) he's too slow to use it most of the time and b) those few times where it's okay for him to be slow and still use it, he'd much, much rather be using Sucker Punch or Iron Head. That's not to say that the theory behind using the move in VGC 2014 is necessarily shitty. Just that Bisharp proved to clearly not be the man for the job.

I'm not sure what other people run there in place of either Brick Break or Protect but I'd be interested to find out and see if it's better than Protect. Personally, I've found Protect on Bisharp to be very good. Bisharp is such a famous glass cannon that he attracts more than his fair share of enemy fire. Protect allows him to buy time for the team and leave the attacking for that turn to the other guy. Of course it's not that great when they use Heat Wave / Earthquake / Surf / other attacks that hit both of my creatures, but when they use attacks that can only hit one Pokémon at a time, it's pretty solid.

[rotomotorz]

I use Brick Break on Bisharp for Mega Kangaskhan, and Assurance instead of Swords Dance because since LO Bisharp is strong enough as it is. I was thinking of replacing Brick Break for Quick Guard however because its convenient at times to block Fake Out and let Aerodactyl set up Tailwind or let Charizard KO something

[Talon87]

[my logic] If you use Brick Break against enemy Mega Kangaskhan, you'll be going second regardless. So why do this:

• get hit, then do base 75 damage without STAB but with a 2x type advantage

when you could be doing this?

• get hit, use Swords Dance, then use Sucker Punch and do a base 80 damage attack with STAB, without a type weakness, yet with Swords Dance to make up for that?

The Swords Danced Sucker Punch is strictly superior to the goes-second Brick Break. If Brick Break went first it'd be a different story. [/my logic]

Tagging that appropriately since I'm the guy who's happy to make 1200 in VGC 2014 while you're the guy who is ashamed to fall that low. So take what I've said with a grain of salt.

[rotomotorz]

Originally Posted by Talon87

[my logic] If you use Brick Break against enemy Mega Kangaskhan, you'll be going second regardless. So why do this:

• get hit, then do base 75 damage without STAB but with a 2x type advantage

when you could be doing this?

• get hit, use Swords Dance, then use Sucker Punch and do a base 80 damage attack with STAB, without a type weakness, yet with Swords Dance to make up for that?

The Swords Danced Sucker Punch is strictly superior to the goes-second Brick Break. If Brick Break went first it'd be a different story. [/my logic]

Tagging that appropriately since I'm the guy who's happy to make 1200 in VGC 2014 while you're the guy who is ashamed to fall that low. So take what I've said with a grain of salt.

The problem is that even after 1 turn of swords dancing and Life Orb +2 Sucker Punch won't always get the KO, but a Brick Break followed by Sucker Punch next turn almost certainly will will.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 229-270 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 183-216 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

44.2% + 55.3% = 99.5%
Unless you roll the lowest possible numbers for BB and sucker punch you will get the KO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 364-429 (87.9 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Only 25% means you have a high possibility of a +1 or +2 Kangaskhan running loose, needing more time to deal with it and putting more pressure on yourself to KO it.

[Princess Ana]

I'm sorry, but doesn't Mega Kanga just fuck you with EQ/PuP anyways?

[rotomotorz]

Assume Kangaskhan and its partner are busy KOing a Rotom-W which is threatening it with burns

[Princess Ana]

That's a shitty assumption. :/

[rotomotorz]

No its not since Mega Kangsakhan is super afraid of burns and if you burn Mega Kangsakhan then it isn't much of a threat anymore

[Princess Ana]

No, its a shitty assumption because you can't always assume that Bisharp is going to be with your Rotom-W. It's far better to have something that works in all scenarios than something that works in one.

[rotomotorz]

The point is to illustrate why Brick Break is more efficient than Swords Dance against Mega Kangaskhan. Obviously nobody would send a Bisharp against a Mega Kangaskhan without something to draw its attention away from Bisharp

[Kindrindra]

The weird thing about doubles is that it's a little more reasonable to assume situations like that rather than thinking about all situations. For example, what roto's say here is (I think) less 'It counters Kanghaskan if Rotom is also out' and more 'If Rotom is also out, it counters Kanghaskan'. So, basically I think the idea is that you're generally going to be switching Bisharp out, but if you have a partner which threatens Kanghaskan to not attack Bisharp, Brick Break takes it out. And in doubles, having a partner which prevents the target from attacking it's partner is not only common, but could be considered the entire theme of the meta.