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Old 12-11-2017, 06:59 PM   #4626
Jerichi
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Man that was a crazy battle. Go A-Duggy!
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:45 AM   #4627
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Altaria 2288 score hng

Where a Lawn battle is anything but a yawn /phew
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Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 12-19-2017, 11:52 AM   #4628
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Altaria

"☆benji9292: that crit
☆benji9292: wow
☆benji9292: ruined the entire game"
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Hi, I'm Daisy!

Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:57 PM   #4629
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TBF considering his wincon, it sort of did.

But I absolutely hate comp Pokemon right now so
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:19 PM   #4630
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Why is Water Shuriken run on Ash-Greninja? Even with the boost and priority, it still looks mighty weak.
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:24 PM   #4631
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It becomes a 60 BP STAB priority move with Battle Bond.

Essentially its a stronger Scizor Bullet Punch.
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:14 PM   #4632
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But in what cases would priority be necessary for a Pokemon so fast? What brings this up is I see Waterium Z is listed now as a valid alternative to Choice Specs and that doesn't make sense all else being equal. I feel like if you're going to run a nuke, you should double down on the nuke's overall power and break things people don't expect you can break.

My guess is Waterium Z is run because dropping Hydro Vortex off Hydro Pump increases the chance of KO and thus transformation, which leaves you with a stronger Protean Greninja without the coverage moves and defensive protection. But, if you're going that route, I think Water Shuriken or Hydro Pump should be dropped in favour of Hydro Cannon.

Hydro Vortex is significantly more powerful with Hydro Cannon as the base, and post-transformation Hydro Cannon is more powerful than the pre-boosted Hydro Vortex. It's basically like getting two shots of Hydro Vortex and allows chances at OHKO's against neutral targets, like against Arceus - Fighting.

Both Pump/Cannon are 5-8 PP moves. So to me, you're either using Dark Pulse or Water Shuriken as your main post-transformation moves, since Hydro Pump is usually neutral damage and has a much higher risk considering the lower damage and accuracy.
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:55 PM   #4633
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There are plenty of Scarfers and Pokemon with priority and it allows Ash Greninja to clean up teams without issue.

Hydro Cannon having a recharge makes it total trash.

Last edited by Emi; 12-25-2017 at 07:57 PM. Reason: okay its still basically a mega evolution OK
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:54 AM   #4634
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You're only using Hydro Cannon "twice", once as the pre-transformation base for Hydro Vortex and once post-transformation as Ash-Greninja. Otherwise, I don't see the point of running Waterium Z (and/or Spikes, for that matter) over a Life Orb with Battle Bond.

Dark Pulse should be the main move unless the opponent has priority, is weak to Water or resistant to Dark, at which you'd use Water Shuriken. If you need to destroy the opponent then you sacrifice Ash-Greninja for a Hydro Cannon, which gives it the power to 1HKO Pokemon that would otherwise 1HKO Greninja back. If the opponent can't kill Ash-Greninja with the free attack you resume your sweep.
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Old 12-26-2017, 06:47 AM   #4635
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Waternium Z gives you the same power as a Choice Specs Hydro Pump without locking you into a move. It's the same sort of idea as Water Gem Politoed in Gen V (even if imo that was a pretty bad set). Hydro Cannon, by comparison, doesn't benefit from Waternium Z nearly as much: the power boost is only 33% and its Hydro Vortex is only 15 BP stronger than Hydro Pump's.

Hydro Vortex contains more immediate power, but the recharge is so crippling there is literally no reason to ever use it. Giving a free turn to your opponent to allow them to set-up or OHKO your Ash Greninja in return is terrible (this is not hard to do by the way, Ash Greninja is very frail). It also prevents you from switching out. Hydro Cannon also doesn't really score any notable KOes. The Pokemon that wall Ash Greninja (Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, Magearna, Clefable, Tapu Bulu, Kyurem-B) all still wall it with Hydro Cannon anyways. It doesn't do anything against Celesteela, Heatran, or Zygarde, especially if you compare it to Specs Hydro Pump. The only Pokemon it maybe scores KOes on are Tapu Lele and Mega Scizor, and if its Scarf, Tapu Lele always wins by default anyways (and is probably not switching in).

Simply put, there isn't any justification for the drawback. It has no real niche.

(Also on the topic of Arceus-Fighting, in no way shape or form is Ash Greninja even remotely usable in Ubers due to the fact that it has no way of breaking Primal Groudon.)
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:50 PM   #4636
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Altaria

The longest battle I've ever had

336 turns, you def don't need to watch it but I won and wanted to keep the replay for posterity xd
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Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:06 AM   #4637
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:25 AM   #4638
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Stall being cancerous, big shocker there
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Quote:
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Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:17 PM   #4639
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That feel when ur Slaking gets Mummy
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PASBL Record
Trainer Level: 5
Referee Grade: B
Wins (DQ): 51 (5) Losses (DQ): 27 (6) Draws: 3
KOs: 135 TP: 294 SP (Earned): 0 (0)

Anime Style Battling | Fizzy Bubbles | Wild Future
Thanks to Pengyzu for the UserBar!
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:50 PM   #4640
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Altaria

This Moltres is RED HOT

Compared to my last match this one's only 6 turns lmao
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Hi, I'm Daisy!

Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:09 AM   #4641
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Gengar has fallen to UU.

The king is dead. Long live the king.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:14 AM   #4642
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Does this mean there is officially no single Pokemon has been in OU for the last 7 generations?
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:12 PM   #4643
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Yes, both Starmie and Gengar officially fell this generation. Starmie "unofficially" fell last generation but had a surge of usage right before Gen VII released, being almost completely creeped by Greninja. Neither is fast or powerful enough in Gen VII to really justify their frailty.

Cursed Body was a nerf, despite what others might say. Losing an immunity and gaining a weakness is pretty crippling. While Gengar was boosted on Psychic Terrain due to the priority restriction, that's situational and easily remedied since all four Tapu are OU.

I don't know the specific details, though. I just have the list and epitaph.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:15 PM   #4644
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Anyone who called Cursed Body a buff or at least lateral movement is an idiot and should not be listened to.

But yeah, rip the crew.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:35 PM   #4645
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OU is just overcrowded right now, because of the Tapus. Weather doesn't matter anymore unless it's caused by Desolate Land.

For example, Mega Charizard Y fell to UU.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:01 PM   #4646
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Yeah Weather being on a timer now pretty much killed its viability as a strat. It's unfortunate, but for all intents and purpose, Terrains are just better than weather. They provide more benefits and don't require team building to use.

Desolate Land is probably the only viable weather because A) it stays as long as Primal Groudon is on the field B) makes Primal Groudon insanely broken.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:04 PM   #4647
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It's just a shame that the intended counter for Desolate Land is somewhat shite. Or MRay, which is a bit dodgy in and of itself iirc due to format limits.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:22 PM   #4648
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In fairness, Primal Kyogre is pretty good. It's just not a good counter for Primal Groudon at all lol.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #4649
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Wait, Gengar only has Cursed Body? No more Levitate? Jesus that's brutal.

Any other mon ever lose an ability? Man, what a shame. Gengar has always been one of my favorites. *pours one out for one of my already dead homies*
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:40 PM   #4650
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Well, Talonflame got nerfed in Gen VII but for a slghtly different reason - Gale Wings only granted priority if it was at full health, which was changed from Gen VI.

Mega Rayquaza isn't broken, he's just strong. But because he had a Mega Evolution instead of a Primal Reversion, there was no reason to run any other Mega Pokemon, and that gave him an undesirable 100% usage. Rayquaza using a move to Mega Evolve wasn't the actual reason it was kicked into AG.

Primal Groudon is much more powerful than Mega Rayquaza. His low speed is a good thing, since in head-to-head it allows Desolate Land to activate second and override Primordial Sea/Delta Stream.

Ironically, I think regular Rayquaza is a better match for Primal Groudon.
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