Online Competitive Pokemon Battle Showdown Happy Fun Times

[Mew The Gato]

With the main offensive Pokemon down on both sides, I just had a 173 turn battle in Underused.

And at the end, the opponent still had four Pokemon left.

I was mainly trying to PP stall out Blissey's Heal Bell, while making sure Quagsire still retains enough PP with Toxic to finish off Blissey. However, I did not get enough chances (Blissey was at 2/8 PP for Heal Bell by the end), and ended up stalling Arcanine out of Morning Sun before that happened. At the same time, I left my own team burnt for several turns to conserve Aromatherapy's PP.

[Ironthunder]

Just some randbats shenanigans. Bellossom/Roserade hauling arse for a change, which was unexpected. Especially after they revealed Reshiram.

[Heather]

For a while, he still could have turned this around. Then he used Rain Dance in front of a Psychic type at +4 SpAtk holding a TwistedSpoon that had a Swift Swim Golduck behind it.

Tough game, but I pulled it out in the end.

[rotomotorz]

When you dick around in lower ladder

I had the barbaracle

[DaisyInari]

Close call!

Although I had Flygon left, it wouldn't have been enough to win had Ludicolo gone down I think!

[Heather]

Went out for a VGC battle. Was not disappointed. Honestly though, I can identify some points where if it weren't for something, I would've been done.

Mega Swampert almost gives me a bad time

Breaking 1100.

[Talon87]

He who controls the elements controls the world. (Random Battle, 18 turns)

Spoiler: show

With auto-sand, auto-sun, and manual rain all under my control in this match, it was pretty brutal for my opponent. ^^; 5-0 victory, though the 5 only by the skin of my teeth.

[Heather]

In light of the recent Suspect Test of Sablenite and Gothitelle in OU, I feel this is some good humor:

[Jerichi]

You know that the banning has gone out of control when a mechanics change (i.e. untrappable Ghosts) made specifically to balance a broken mechanic (i.e. trapping) has been completely invalidated by bans.

Can we also agree that OU is pretty much dead now?

EDIT: For those in the know, is Ubers weirdly balanced now that AG is a thing?

[Talon87]

Luck works both ways. (Random Battle, ?? turns)

Spoiler: show

Normally I'm the lucky one. But in this match, I face off against someone who makes the most retarded decisions, benefits from them -- because I give him too much credit! -- and ultimately wins through a series of lucky breaks, the cherry on top being a game-deciding critical hit on the final turn.

But yeah, going through this match turn by turn ...

• Who the fuck leaves Ninetales in on a Tyranitar? Magoo Moment No.1 of his, where I opt for Pursuit because fuck yeah guaranteed Pursuit win and he stupidly stays put ... to SOLARBEAM IN SAND!
• I don't want Tyranitar taking significant damage early on, so I opt to switch out to SpDef bulky Gothitelle. I see that she's holding a Choice Scarf and figure it'll put her above Ninetales in terms of speed. Nope! The lucky fucker outspeeds my Choice Scarfed Rosie the Robot and I lose a Gothitelle for nothing.
• Now it's Tyranitar vs. Scyther. Again, I figure he's going to run away for sure. Who would stay in on Stone Edge!? So I decide I have a free turn to set up Stealth Rock ... and WHAMMO! He clobbers me with a Brick Break.
• Leafeon outspeeds my entire team. Physically bulky (anti-Hitmonchan), physically strong (anti-Jynx). Weeeeeeeeeell shit. This is going to take some serious thinking to beat.
• And I pull it off! I've outmaneuvered him and forced a winning condition for me. He desperately PP stalls with Synthesis but it's utterly pointless. I win the PP stall war. VICTORY IS MINE!
• .................... Except ...
• ... He gets a final-turn critical hit with Leaf Blade ...
• ... And KOs my, like, 75% health Hitmonchan. Who isn't weak to Grass. And Leaf Blade isn't that particularly strong a move, crit hit or no.
• But no, fuck that shit! CRIT HIT FOR THE IDIOT WHO LEAVES A NINETALES IN ON A TYRANITAR!

As Emi would say, I'm a bit salty.

Originally Posted by Jerichi

You know that the banning has gone out of control when a mechanics change (i.e. untrappable Ghosts) made specifically to balance a broken mechanic (i.e. trapping) has been completely invalidated by bans.

As much as I'd love to agree with you and the general sentiment that past Smogon bans beget future Smogon bans, I'm not sure I really see this as, "Well trapping is clearly broken and Mega Gengar was put on this earth to fix that." The problem isn't with trapping: it's with the community's attitudes towards trapping. Everyone was a-okay with Magnet Pull in Gen 3 -- everyone except Skarmory lovers, to whom Game Freak extended an olive branch in Gen 4 with Shed Shell. But there's been a huge shift in Smogon's mentality between Gen 3 and Gen 6, and we live in a world now where Smogon abHOOOOOOOOOOOORs things like trapping and hates just as much being asked to run items like Shed Shell or creatures like ghosts to counter it. No one's clamoring for a Magnet Pull ban because Magnet Pull hasn't been relevant since Gen 3. But if it were relevant again, I'm sure we'd have people clamoring for it now. Nothing has changed with how good or bad trapping is. All that's changed is Smogonites' attitudes towards losing to a team that uses a trapper.

Originally Posted by Jerichi

Can we also agree that OU is pretty much dead now?

Been my thought since they banned Greninja. Was already getting pushed there by Mega Mawile, Mega Lucario, and Aegislash, but Greninja was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Emi]

4 Drag 2 Mag was a thing in Gen IV and Magnezone has always only been relevant for Magnet Pull. Not sure where you are getting it hasn't been relevant, the issue is there has only been one decent user of it.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Emi

Magnezone has always only been relevant for Magnet Pull.

Where in my entire post did I suggest this is not the case? All I said was that Magnet Pull doesn't really amount to much in terms of a palpable OU presence in the modern Smogon OU metagame. It is not comparable with Generation 3. That's all I'm saying. "If we could take Gen 6 Smogonites and transport them back in time to Gen 3 and have them look at the role Magnet Pull played in the Gen 3 meta, I am sure they would accuse it of being uncompetitive and broken." My assertion in a nutshell. Not, "Magnezone doesn't exist in OU." Not, "Magnet Pull is not an alluring ability that attracts experimenters from time to time."

That stated, I was wrong in my assertion. Taking a look at the November 2015 OU usage stats, it turns out that Magnezone placed 35th in overall usage. That's impressive. On over 5% of teams, it means he was more common than Gliscor, Gardevoir, Jirachi, and Dragonite, more common even than Chansey, Celebi, and Zapdos.

[Emi]

Yeah as long as Scizor and Ferrothorn exist in OU, so is Magnezone. It's known for being good trappers of those two Pokemon. Skarmory too but you don't see a lot of Skarm from what I remember.

It's more "Magnet Pull really has never lost relevance". Skarmory was a good trappable thing, but more good targets did come in later Gens.

[DaisyInari]

Can you say, pull this win out of your butt? I sure can \o/

[Lady Kuno]

Damn it Daisy, you got me addicted to this.


I call this match: Confused opponent quits when he figures it out. Will you figure it out before him?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ra...ttle-304484297

[Link]

I have beaten Ian Garvey. Also, Alex Rizzo. Anyone here want a battle with myself?

[Heather]

@Kuno: Yeah, the minute you walled Psyshock, I knew. I should have known even sooner, though: I've DONE the "Bug type with nonsensical Flamethrower" gig before. I'm truly surprised he didn't figure it out before then, however - why would anyone in their right mind send an actual Venomoth against Mew? Bug moves maybe, but Mew usually isn't one to be getting OHKO'd, so it'd be too risky. I've caught onto Zoroarks very quickly by being able to read into that. One such person was like "How did you know!?" when the Illusion was at a MAJOR disadvantage, but a Dark Type would have had an advantage, so I attacked as if my opponent were Zoroark, it paid off as an easy OHKO.

[Emi]

Zoroark is much better used as a lure for Psychic-types imo by using Pokemon like Nidoqueen or Toxicroak as Illusion targets. Switching it in bears considerable risk (also note that Zoroark's hazard damage may not align with the type of the Pokemon it seems to be, so Rapid Spin or Defog support is advised) because of the confusion in which such a gambit makes.

[Shuckle]

I ran Flamethrower Venomoth from the instant Zoroark was released, so I actually thought "I bet that's a Zoroark" right when you sent it out xD Glad to see my suspicions were correct. I love this strategy. It's so much fun to see people get so confused. I've been accused of hacking multiple times until they hit "Venomoth" and learn what's really going on.

Oh wow, Zoro has 120 base SpA? How come I could never get it to hit as hard as I needed it to?

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Link

I have beaten Ian Garvey. Also, Alex Rizzo. Anyone here want a battle with myself?

... Ian, what are you doing hiding behind an ill-conceived alt? ^^; C'mon, man. There's no one here who would name drop your name and a VGC champion's name in the same sentence except you.

Also ... I think you meant Ray Rizzo and/or Alex Ogloza. There's no relevant "Alex Rizzo" to my knowledge.

[Emi]

Originally Posted by Shuckle

I ran Flamethrower Venomoth from the instant Zoroark was released, so I actually thought "I bet that's a Zoroark" right when you sent it out xD Glad to see my suspicions were correct. I love this strategy. It's so much fun to see people get so confused. I've been accused of hacking multiple times until they hit "Venomoth" and learn what's really going on.

Oh wow, Zoro has 120 base SpA? How come I could never get it to hit as hard as I needed it to?

You either aren't using something like Life Orb or Choice Specs or it has to do with Dark Pulse being 80 BP.

[Talon87]

I think people also underestimate how much type weaknesses matter. The perceived or real (either/or) weakness of an attacking Pokémon is really palpable when you hit something that isn't weak to your STAB. "What? But how come my {A} didn't OHKO his {B} with {STAB move}? It has STAB! " Yeah, it has STAB, good for you. You managed to 2HKO instead of 3HKO, or 3HKO instead of 4H or 5HKO. You were only going to OHKO it when you had STAB plus a type weakness.

This happens a lot with Starmie. Starmie routinely OHKOs non-sponges that are weak to Water (3x damage) or that are twice weak to Ice (4x damage), but the moment he has to use Hydro Pump against, say, Tauros, suddenly he fails to secure the OHKO and gets OHKO'd himself in the process. Granted, 120 base special attack is higher than what Starmie has, but I'm betting there are similarities between the disappointments you suffered with Zoroark and the disappointments I have known over the years with some of my oldest and most beloved teammates.

[Link]

Originally Posted by Talon87

... Ian, what are you doing hiding behind an ill-conceived alt? ^^; C'mon, man. There's no one here who would name drop your name and a VGC champion's name in the same sentence except you.

Also ... I think you meant Ray Rizzo and/or Alex Ogloza. There's no relevant "Alex Rizzo" to my knowledge.

This is not Ian Garvey. Or Ray Rizzo. This is the current VGC champion. Want to see me in action? You should view pokemon.com if you want to see total domination.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Link

This is not Ian Garvey. Or Ray Rizzo. This is the current VGC champion.

That would explain your second-rate command of the English language. ^^;

[Shuckle]

Thinking over it, I agree with Talon - OHKOs are pretty much either a result of significant stat adjustments or of type advantages. This could be why moves like Hyper Voice, Dark Pulse, and Dragon Claw frequently feel weak, while moves like Earthquake and Flamethrower seem to hit disproportionately harder.

Zoroark's coverage isn't the best is legitimately Furfrou-tier, and since he's so damn fragile he needs to be OHKOing basically everything.

I'll try running Focus Blast and see if that's a meaningful upgrade. While it's not perfect, that covers Normals Darks Steels and Rocks and it has 120 base power to boot. It helps that Dark and Fighting have nearly perfect coverage (damn Fairies).