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Old 12-31-2011, 03:37 PM   #326
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I still have to catch up, but I come bearing news. Someone posted this video which looks to be a promo(?), extra or ripped game OP for Fate/Prototype, a.k.a. a FSN scenario built up from Nasu's concept ideas. Here we have the female Shirou and a male King Arthur, and Gilgamesh is gay.

Years ago I would have been like cooooooool but now the water feels tepid. Especially if this is a promo. Seriously Nasu? How far are you going to milk this?
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:02 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
I still have to catch up, but I come bearing news. Someone posted this video which looks to be a promo(?), extra or ripped game OP for Fate/Prototype, a.k.a. a FSN scenario built up from Nasu's concept ideas. Here we have the female Shirou and a male King Arthur, and Gilgamesh is gay.

Years ago I would have been like cooooooool but now the water feels tepid. Especially if this is a promo. Seriously Nasu? How far are you going to milk this?
I'm 3m48s through this and I gotta say: I'm intrigued. Would I prefer the real Fate/Stay Night to have been like this? Maybe, it's quite hard to say. I'm not liking many of the changes as they appear ... and yet I then realize, when I actually sit my butt down and think about why I don't like them, it's because they're contraverting the established canon and nothing else. In fact, almost all of the changes so far have been for the better, not for the worse, even if they don't superficially feel like it to me:
Spoiler: show
  1. I'm actually really down with a Gilgamesh who for the most part is unchanged but who is now gay for Arthur. To be perfectly honest, the only real way to reconcile the original (FSN) Gilgamesh with the other aspects of the NasuVerse canon is to perceive him as thoroughly bisexual. And why is that? Because it's pretty clear that he desires Saber -- but he is also constantly talking about how everything in this world belongs to him, implying that he doesn't discriminate; and of course there's his legend. Do I like it when yaoi-guzzling fangirls equate bromances with homosexuality? No, no I don't. But am I okay with people re-envisioning a bromance as something a little more romantic? It depends. And to be honest, here, with the legend of Gilgamesh, I'm perfectly down with it. The original legend makes it very clear that Enkidu is in many ways "the only one who could ["control" isn't quite the right word, but ...] Gilgamesh. That Gilgamesh cared more for Enkidu than anything or anyone else in the world. So it's not difficult to make the leap from "best bros" to "gay lovers." And what's nice about having Gilgamesh, then, take the leap from the heterosexual to the homosexual in this re-envisioning is that ...
  2. ... it allows us to return Arthur to his original gender. None of this silly Arturia nonsense. Now we've got King Arthur exactly as the legends say he was. Now we don't have to worry, now Nasu doesn't have to worry, about crafting some new and bogus lore for King Arthur so that it jives with the idea that Arthur was actually a girl and yet history has remembered her as a man. Now we can just say, "You know what? No. Arthur was a guy, end of story, and anything you know about Arthur from Arthurian legend applies to this heroic spirit's past."
  3. One of my biggest complaints with Emiya Shirou was just how inadequate he was as a magus in the 5th Holy Grail War. It wasn't his fault: it was his creator's, Nasu's, for making him so pitiful in the first place. What really made Shirou intolerable in each of the game's three paths, as birtha and I have already scathingly explored in earlier posts in this very thread , is that in spite of his numerous shortcomings Shirou always manages to impossibly survive the predicaments he finds himself in. Shit happens in FSN like ...
    • every bone in his body is broken. Not "I feel like they have been" but "no, I can tell: they actually have been. I am now a lump of flesh and goo on the bottom of the street". And yet he magically stands back up on his two legs. (Fate path, Avalon HO~OOOOO! )
    • in poor physical shape and physically being transformed into swords from the inside-out, he manages to defeat the most powerful Heroic Spirit summoned into the most powerful class powered by the most powerful mana source. (I understand your "his divinity is lowered by virtue of D___ S_____'s corruption" in an older response, Doppel, but meh: I think that the triple crown that I am describing still applies and that even if it doesn't by virtue of your observation it'd be reduced only from a triple to a double crown or even from a double to a single crown. It'd still be a goddamn crown for Shirou to overcome. ) (Heaven's Feel path)
    • numerous others
    So one thing I like from what I've already witnessed in this trailer is that the original Shirou, this Sajou Ayaka character, was actually more like Tohsaka Rin.
    • she knows all about the grail wars already
    • she lost both of her parents in them
    • she is a magus who already knows how to do certain spells, including some sort of magic involving black bird feathers
    I like that. I don't like it because it's "ewwww! how not canon! ", but I otherwise like it a lot. It pretty much would address all these complaints I've had about Shirou being like a fish out of water in the grail war. Ayaka, the original Shirou, seems to have been more akin in War 5 to what Waver Velvet was in War 4: a competent magus but still one who was in way over her head given the competition she was up against. That works for me. That works very well, in fact.
  4. When I saw the new (or should I say the original? ) Lancer, my first thought was, "Eww! How different and therefore how wrong! XP " But now that I actually take a look at him, he looks a hell of a lot more authentic than blue spandex body-hugging bodysuit FSN Lancer does. The wolf fur not only feels authentic for Irish clothing from that era -- it also fits his heroic spirit identity. (Whoever said that the original Hound of Chulainn whom our hero slew was a domesticated dog? What if it was a half-wolf or even a full wolf that had been tamed by Man?)

Other thoughts from before I paused as well as from after as I continue to switch between watching the trailer and writing this post:
Spoiler: show
  • It's interesting that Ayaka has an older sister. I wonder what role she played in the original story / will play here.
  • It's interesting that when Lancer goes in for the kill, Ayaka cries out for her father. ("OTOU-SAN! ;_;") Even though the Arthur summoned into this war seems very young -- not a day over 17 years of age, I'd say -- it's a neat idea that Arthur may have originally been intended as a surrogate father or a surrogate older brother character for Ayaka instead of being a hybrid of a superior in some domains and an inferior in others. Makes me wonder if the original Arthur was supposed to have some of the characteristics embodied by FSN Archer.
    • When she summons Arthur, she says "O-" and is speechless. Given her polite speech elsewhere, "omae" seems unlikely. My first thought is "Otou-san" (Dad) once again. Repeating myself, but again: it'll be interesting to see if Arthur and Ayaka have a more father-daughter relationship than the boy-meets-socially-inept-girl one that Shirou and Arturia had.
    • OH YEAH. XD At 5m15s, the backwards-look-over-the-shoulder look he gives Ayaka totally echoes FSN Archer.
  • Lancer addresses Ayaka as a 黒魔術師 or a black magician. That could explain the black color of the bird feathers she was using earlier in her spells. It'll be interesting to see if he's just saying that as a general term or if he really does mean the "black" in "black magician" and if Ayaka and/or her family dabbled in the dark arts.
  • No idea whether Gil still has the Gate of Babylon or not or whether it works the same way or not, but a scene showing him sword-fighting hand-to-hand with Arthur would certainly suggest that he may have been re-envisioned (or should I say that he may have been originally envisioned? ) to be a Saber-class servant and not an Archer-class one. If true, I'm for it, although I have warmed up to the idea that Gate of Babylon works like "the bow and arrow to end all bows and arrows" so I'm okay with him remaining an Archer too. If he is now a Saber, though, then that totally undoes Fate/Zero as we know it since, duh-hur, you couldn't have both Saber-Arthur and Saber-Gilgamesh summoned into War 4.
  • Lancer's master appears to be a woman bathed in red lamplight. (5m22s) Is that Ayaka's older sister? And if so, did she send her servant to go and eradicate her own little sister? O_o If not, then who is it?
  • What's this? There's a list of "degrees" the trailer is talking about. What the ...?
    • Master Degrees The Seventh - Princes
    • Master Degrees The Sixth - Powers
    • Master Degrees The Fifth - Virtues
    • Master Degrees The Fourth - Dominions
    • Master Degrees The Third - Thrones
    • Master Degrees The Second - Cherubim
    • Master Degrees The First - Seraphim
    • Master Degrees Absence - VOID
    No idea what this list really means. Seems kind of dumb, but who knows. Will withhold judgment until we can actually see what it's all about.
  • The person being kept alive on life support but who also seems to be a Master in this war ... that kinda reeks of derivation from X/1999. (Kuzuki Kakyo, anyone? Yuki, you still need to watch this! ) But it's a fun idea all the same.
  • 5m44s: hello, beautiful! Though something tells me that's Lancer's master once again. XD And just what on earth is she holding? Meat for the dogs?
  • Okay, there's that priest-lookin' guy again. I sure do hope he isn't the replacement for Kotomine Kirei. 'Cause if he is, he's the first thing I categorically dislike about this remake. Do not want. D:
    • And what is up with that thing he's wearing? It looks awfully familiar to a certain other black-with-red-stripes bit of clothing we saw in FSN.
    • He appears to rip something out of or off of Ayaka. She seems to have her command seals on her chest, right over her breastbone. Did he rip those off or something?
  • 5m55s: hey, it's Miss Beautiful again! And she looks like a fearsome opponent, too.
  • 6m15s~ish: it's the fugly replacement for Kirei again. Or is he Caster? It's hard to tell. He definitely appears to be using Rule Breaker on Ayaka, though. There's no physical weapon this time, but he's doing some kind of magic right over her chest, you can see her red command seal glowing in mid-air, and then next thing you know, he's got her command seal on his chest and is laughing maniacally about it. So ... who the hell is he? Regardless, not a fan of anything he's a part of.
  • Okay, never mind about Gilgamesh being anything other than an Archer again. At 8m06s, they show him putting his two swords together hilt-to-hilt to make a "sword-bow". Kinda ridiculous. But whatever.
  • Okay, the bit at around 8m30s is pretty stupid. I will agree with Doppel there. The more I watch of this trailer, the less inspired it feels and the more cash-in it feels. But I'd still like to have some hope that it might be good. At the very least, it could be as fun an alternate universe story as J. J. Abrams' Star Trek is fun for the entire Star Trek family just so long as you keep reminding yourself "it's in an alternate universe, it's in an alternate universe, it's in an alternate universe ..."
  • 9m22s: d'awwww. She's speechless. And totally smitted. And there are cherry blossom petals everywhere. XD This is amazing. hahahahahahaha He's literally her knight in shining armor.
  • Awwwwwwwwww, and then the sneak peek ends. I got greedy when I saw that it said it was 12 minutes long and thought I had another 3 minutes or so of stuff to look forward to.
  • OH SNAP! XD That ending! Translation: "*laughter*, oh, Saber, Saber! Saber! SABER! I believed! That you would definitely come back! I love you ... my, my(ne and mine alone) prince!"
    • This pretty much confirms that Arthur was summoned into an earlier war ... though it begs the question of how someone who could have been waiting for him all this time is still only a child. Is she an Einzbern homonculus? Is she herself a Servant and not a Master? Just who is she? Regardless, it's evident that she was originally intended as one of the player's rivals for Saber's affections. In fact ...

The impression I get from watching this trailer is that the following was the key difference between the original game and FSN:
  • original game: you were meant to play different routes wherein a different character would try and steal Saber away from you each time. It was up to you to defeat them and retain Saber's love and devotion. But in all routes, Saber was always your romantic target.
  • FSN: as we know, you play three different routes where you instead aim for one of three different targets each time. Saber is only one of the targets, the other two being the school idol and your childhood friend's sister who in turn is sort of an osananajimi herself.
I'm making this claim because of what was shown in the trailer. I mean, in this trailer alone, how many people were clearly trying to get their hands on Saber? At least two -- the creepy priest guy and the psychotic loli at the end. And Doppel promises us that Gilgamesh is gay this time around so you can bet your bottom dollar that that makes three different characters who are all trying to wrest Saber away from Ayaka.

Thanks for sharing this with us, Doppel. Will definitely be looking forward to locating a downloadable copy.

VERDICT FOR RIGHT NOW: probably going to be worse than FSN, which in turn is worse than Fate/Zero, but ... I'm still interested. And from the look of things, it could still be more interesting to me than either Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai were. So that's got to count for something.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:12 PM   #328
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Okay, I realize that's a scary wall of text that no one is likely to want to read except me. So I'll sum it up in brief here. Apologies for the double-post:

1. New Gil
I'm fine with it.

2. New Saber
I'm really intrigued by where they could take this. His relationship with Ayaka mirrors FSN Archer's relationship with Tohsaka Rin somewhat.

3. New Shirou
I like her. She's a vast improvement over Shirou in many ways. Or at the very least, she's an interesting "What if ...?" character.

4. New (other characters)
I like some, I dislike others. Lancer is cool. Really dislikin' what they did to Kirei, though. His replacement seems seems like the lamest NasuVerse character ever.

5. Expectations
I expect it will be fun. I am glad Doppel shared this with us. I consider it good news. At the same time, from what I saw, I don't think it will be better than FSN. Nor, in turn, do I think it will be better than F/Z. But I do think it could be better than either Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai. Could. We'll just have to wait and see.

If you'd like to read more of my thoughts on what was shown, the essay above is waiting for you.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:18 PM   #329
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I think Gilgamesh still has GOB, that and Excalibur as a laser weapon came out in development pretty early. It's UBW that was the derivative idea, and in the original story Saber was meant to be the protagonist, while Ayaka the romantic interest.

I can understand why Nasu went for FSN's set-up given this combination - Saber doesn't make for a very interesting protagonist from a first person point of view. Characters with strong advantages but no disadvantages kill tension.

Head is busy right now, sorry if this is incomprehensible.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:45 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
I think Gilgamesh still has GOB, that and Excalibur as a laser weapon came out in development pretty early. It's UBW that was the derivative idea, and in the original story Saber was meant to be the protagonist, while Ayaka the romantic interest.

I can understand why Nasu went for FSN's set-up given this combination - Saber doesn't make for a very interesting protagonist from a first person point of view. Characters with strong advantages but no disadvantages kill tension.

Head is busy right now, sorry if this is incomprehensible.
You must be busy if this is all you had to say and you think it could be perceived as incomprehensible. It was fine. Everything you said made sense, don't worry. The only thing I'll ask about is what you meant when you said "UBW is derivative." What is it derivative of? Did you mean to say that UBW is something which was seen in FSN but which will not be seen in Fate/Prototype? I could believe it. Hell, I could believe it if, in Fate/Prototype, Archer isn't even Archer. He/She is probably a completely different heroic spirit with a completely different personality. As stated earlier, it seems that a lot of Archer's charm and older brother/surrogate father characteristics originated in Saber and have since found their way back into him in Fate/Prototype.

Either I'd forgotten about or else I didn't know that Saber was originally meant to be the player-character and that Ayaka (a.k.a. Shirou) was who you targeted. That's interesting to know, but I agree with you that the decision to reverse the roles was a necessary one for FSN to have worked as well as it did. But I still stand by the conclusions I drew from watching this trailer: it seems that numerous people are aiming for Saber and that it's up to Ayaka to stave them off. She definitely appears to have been recast as the primary protagonist even if, as you say, she was originally written as the supporting protagonist. Thus, in a sense, the Fate/Prototype that we're about to receive won't even be the real prototype. Much like Mahou Tsukai no Yoru, it's looking like Fate/Prototype is going to be a very touched-up, heavily rewritten version of the prototype Nasu wrote back when he was in high school or college.

I'd be delighted if some of the better Heroic Spirit choices that wormed their ways into Fate/Extra and Fate/Apocrypha were to show up in this outing. In particular, I'd love to see this girl as Archer and this guy as Rider. I'm not holding my breath, though. In fact, if anything, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised if most of the Servant identities are kept the same in an effort to appease those fans who are already up in arms over all the changes Fate/Prototype is making to the FSN landscape. But we'll see. I dunno. If you come at Fate/Prototype as an alternate universe fanfic, then that's all the more reason to go wild and completely wipe the board clean.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:35 PM   #331
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Yeah major halation right now. Trying to multi-multi task.

What I meant was Unlimited Blade Works was based on Gate of Babylon, as Archer evolved as a character based on Gilgamesh and Shirou ideas. That's why the three share a lot in common, although I think in the Kotomine Kirei - Emiya Shirou case, it's not a common ancestry issue so much as it is convergent evolution.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:13 PM   #332
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Ignored whether the Engrish matched up with the Japanese subtitles on the first pass through, but looking back at it now, the translation is god awful. Any one of us could get a job in Japan Englishproofing things for corporations, it seems, if only they cared. Here's a better translation for you:

You can't bring back the dead. (lit. The dead will not be resurrected.)
Once you lose something, it's gone for good. (lit. Lost things do not return.)
Even the greatest miracle can only affect the living. (lit. Whatever miracle you speak of, things capable of change are restricted to, presently, living things.)

That third line is theirs since the way they translated it was very nice. The other two are my own translation. I've offered literal translations in parentheses for all three lines.

What's interesting about this opening, and I didn't really appreciate this the first time I watched it, is that it tells us about a major difference between Shirou and Ayaka. Shirou's initial goal (whether you want to call it his grail wish or not) was to become a superhero, right? In at least one of the three paths (if not all three, I forget), Shirou is confronted with the reality that he can't wish away the fire from ten years ago because to do so would be to wish away the very event that determined his course in life. Not that it matters -- Shirou never really gets to make a wish, always instead focused on destroying the corrupted grail -- but what is interesting to note is that Ayaka's wish may be to restore her parents to life. Not only is this hinted at by the topic covered by each of the three lines, it is also hinted at very strongly in the original Japanese subtitling for the third line where it says 今を, meaning "now; currently, at present, presently", indicating that for now, in this day and age, we lack the means to bring back the dead; but that perhaps in the future, perhaps in the very near future, there will be a way by which the dead can be brought back to life. Such as a ... Grail wish, maybe? :O

Come to think of it, it'll be interesting to see if the grail is even corrupted in Fate/Prototype or if instead it's a holy vessel genuinely capable of granting whatever one wish your heart desires. I would assume that it's corrupted if corrupted Gil is still around? But then again, who the hell knows: maybe Gil isn't actually a hold-over from War 4 this time and is instead the War 5 summon into the Archer class. If so, the only thing left requiring us to conclude that the grail must be contaminated is the fact that it would even host a war in the first place from which so much suffering is born. Although even by Nasu's own FSN logic, that argument doesn't necessarily hold. (You can get into all sorts of twisted temporal arguments since Nasu's Grail war traverses time in a non-linear sense, but if we look at things linearly, the fact of the matter is that there was a time pre-the end of War 3 where the grail was not yet corrupted and yet the war was obviously very, very real.)

Re-watching it right now ... listening more closely to the conversations ... Gilgamesh tells Arthur that Sajou Ayaka's life only has three days remaining. (Whether he's talking about the end of the grail war or something entirely different, who knows.) When Gil takes that phial out from his coat pocket, he tells Arthur, "If you want this, you're going to have to take it." I don't have a very good ear, I'm afraid (I'm a much better reader than listener), so I can't really tell if that's Ayaka's life force inside of the phial or if it's something different altogether.

Forgot to mention last time, but ... awwwwwww at the scene with the doves.
Spoiler: show
That was so tense for me, watching it the first time, but it's so d'awwwwww seeing the resolution. The animation studio really perfectly captured the movements of pigeons & doves' heads.

ATTENTION!!!
Was looking at UTW's site to see if they had already subbed (or had announced plans to sub) this trailer. But look what unfortunate (?) news someone brought :
According to the Type-Moon website, Fate/Prototype is just a digest OVA/Trailer there and there no plans for any release be it a Visual Novel or anime.
Awwww. Although I guess this must make you happy, Doppel. This was more a treat for the fans, I guess, than a bonafide sneak peek of things yet to come? I guess only time will tell whether or not we're going to get a Fate/Prototype OAV. But I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed. ^^; I was looking forward to some Fate/Prototype next fall or winter to tide me over once Fate/Zero wraps up in late June.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:24 PM   #333
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Sigh. Fuckin' figures: UTW releases a batch for Fate/Zero including typographical error fixes, grammatical error fixes, translation fixes, and the extended Episode 11 -- but the subs don't want to load in VLC. I'm pretty much committed to using VLC on this platform, so when sub groups decide that they want to break VLC, it means that I don't get to play with them anymore. It would be pretty awful if UTW joins those "fuck VLC" ranks as they're the only group that does Carnival Phantasm and one of only two groups that I know of that touched Fate/Zero, the other being Commie. I posted on their blog but am expecting to be inundated with spiteful jeers from the readerbase and a polite "no" or two from the staff. Sigh.

I really wish VLC would get their act together and render subtitles the same way that other players (e.g. MPlayer) do. I also really wish that they'd get their act together and update their official build. I'm tired of having to use a buggy nightly build whenever I want to watch 10-bit files.

[/rant]

EDIT: Obviously, I have MPlayer and its Windows pseudo-VLC equivalent SMPlayer on here, too, but I typically find that they're just not as good. However, I upgraded SMPlayer to the newest version just now (my old one was about half a year old, I think) and it's doing the job just fine for now. Still: I prefer to use VLC. Despite all the flak Linux nerds give VLC, it is the Swiss army knife of media players. It is ridiculously portable and remarkably powerful. I like it. I get sad when anime fansub groups go all "Linux is king, the rest of you are subhumans" racial technological supremacist on us and deliberately engineer their releases to break VLC and no other players. (Code Geass-era gg, I'm looking at you. ¬_¬) But I guess if I have to start watching UTW's releases with SMPlayer, I'll live. That's how I had to watch K-ON!! too. Anyway, time to sit back and enjoy Episode 11, I guess. ^^; *deep breath*

Last edited by Talon87; 01-02-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:27 PM   #334
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Double-post. Just finished Episode 11 version 2.0. Thoughts ...

Fantastic. If the episode three weeks ago was akin to UBW - the Movie, this was more akin to playing UBW itself. Everything that was missing from the episode's original broadcast but was present in the book chapter showed up in this episode. Kirei and Tokiomi's conversation about the Assassins, Gil's greater presence during the conversation (and a small peek at his own philosophy about rule), and Gil's and Rider's mutual declarations of intent to kill the other ... all was present in this do-over.

There were also smaller things that had been cut for time but which, now included, made conversations flow much more intelligibly. When I first watched Episode 11, I was so glued to my seat that I forgot to take any screencaps, something I ordinarily do by habit at an average frequency of like one every five seconds. So I know I was hooked. But at the same time, I remember being very confused and telling myself, "We are so going to have to re-watch this once UTW gets their release out so we can make heads or tails of things." But once UTW's release came out and I watched it, things didn't get much better. Not until watching the re-broadcast just now does the conversation truly feel like a naturally-flowing one rather than a scripted one that was heavily edited for time. It's ... hard to explain other than to say, you don't have to think as hard when watching the new version of the episode as you did before. If the first one, in order for it to make sense to you, was akin to studying an chapter of assigned reading from a philosophy textbook in college, the second one is more like you listening in to two ordinary people discussing the same values explored by that textbook chapter. It's just ... surprisingly easier to follow despite the minimal insertions it received.

Acquire if you already got the original Ep11?
Absolutely. It's up to you whether you want to keep both versions or just the new version, but I definitely think you'd be being foolish to keep only the original version in your archives.

Watch if you already watched the original Ep11?
I'd say so, unless you watched the original so many times that you're burnt out on Fate/Zero right now, in which case go ahead and watch it in April before the show starts back up.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:24 PM   #335
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Watched 13. It was good. I actually liked the Ryuunosuke part best.

Spoiler: show
Gen God is totally an angst addict. Right on, brother.

For a second, I almost felt kinda bad for Uryuu when I saw his stricken face. Then I remembered what he was upset over. >.>; Still, kinda humbling to see the guy we're so used to hating appear genuinely wounded and distressed.


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But at the same time, I remember being very confused and telling myself, "We are so going to have to re-watch this once UTW gets their release out so we can make heads or tails of things." But once UTW's release came out and I watched it, things didn't get much better. Not until watching the re-broadcast just now does the conversation truly feel like a naturally-flowing one rather than a scripted one that was heavily edited for time. It's ... hard to explain other than to say, you don't have to think as hard when watching the new version of the episode as you did before. If the first one, in order for it to make sense to you, was akin to studying an chapter of assigned reading from a philosophy textbook in college, the second one is more like you listening in to two ordinary people discussing the same values explored by that textbook chapter. It's just ... surprisingly easier to follow despite the minimal insertions it received.
Whether the subs are to blame or not, I felt this way during this episode. I couldn't understand how Waver and Rider seemed to jump to as many seemingly random conclusions as they did from each other's equally random remarks. Though reading your summary afterwards helped clear the conversation up, and my heart certainly went out to the both of them.

I also found myself far more bothered by the animation in this episode than I was in 11. Haven't (re-)watched the new version yet to compare, will probably do so soon after a break.

Watched the Fate/Prototype trailer as well. For the most part, it looks pretty dang cool. That epic music really sells it.

Never mind the Engrish though, the version I watched had terrible subs. =| I looked for another release but couldn't find any. Still, the gist of several lines lead me to question some of the points Talon made. Will provide timestamps when I can find them so hopefully you can clarify the exact meaning.

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  1. I'm actually really down with a Gilgamesh who for the most part is unchanged but who is now gay for Arthur.
6:45 "I'll kill Saber. And after, you'll be my queen!"

This was voiced over a scene of Saber and Gilgamesh fighting. Wouldn't this mean Gil's no longer lusting after the King of Knights, but he wants some of dat Japanese schoolgirl tail? Then again...

8:00 "Take that, my dear!"

Gil says this as he preps his bow to take down Saber. ^^;

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  • It's interesting that Ayaka has an older sister. I wonder what role she played in the original story / will play here.
  • Lancer's master appears to be a woman bathed in red lamplight. (5m22s) Is that Ayaka's older sister? And if so, did she send her servant to go and eradicate her own little sister? O_o If not, then who is it?
1:30 "Today... anniversary of the death of his father and older sister."

Told you the subs were bad. Anyway, this seems to imply Ayaka's sister is also dead. Also...

3:24 "I'm not like my sister!"

Ayaka screams this under the covers when she's saying she doesn't want to participate (in the Grail War). I get the feeling her sis may have been the prodigal child chosen to become the successor who was expected to fight in the War. So upon her death the responsibility fell to the younger, weaker sister to carry on the family legacy, whether willfully or not. Perhaps that's what the conversation with the priest over "fate" was about.

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  • It's interesting that when Lancer goes in for the kill, Ayaka cries out for her father. ("OTOU-SAN! ;_;") Even though the Arthur summoned into this war seems very young -- not a day over 17 years of age, I'd say -- it's a neat idea that Arthur may have originally been intended as a surrogate father or a surrogate older brother character for Ayaka instead of being a hybrid of a superior in some domains and an inferior in others. Makes me wonder if the original Arthur was supposed to have some of the characteristics embodied by FSN Archer.
Saber's youthful appearance may just be a byproduct of the Carnival Phantasm style of animation. He looked fairly mature in the concept art. I just tried looking up FSN Saber's age, and was reminded that according to the game, Arthur physically stopped aging when s/he pulled the sword from the stone at presumably 14 or 15, so that could be another explanation.

We do see the table scene at 7:10 which shows what we can assume to be little Ayaka talking to her father, whose silhouette resembles Saber's. The voices are similar too, so there you go.

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  • Lancer addresses Ayaka as a 黒魔術師 or a black magician.
4:55 "chernoknizhnitsa!"

Just... Wow. Even I understood he said "black magician". ^^;

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  • Okay, there's that priest-lookin' guy again. I sure do hope he isn't the replacement for Kotomine Kirei. 'Cause if he is, he's the first thing I categorically dislike about this remake. Do not want. D:
I feel like I've seen this exact character image and archetype somewhere before, but I can't place it. =x Seems like he'd be a cross between Kotomine and Kayneth though.

On another note, I really liked the voice acting in this. Ayaka sounds adorable, love the soft, subtly sad quality of her voice. Also enjoyed how wonderfully creepy the delivery of the last lines were. Already like this crazy little girl way more than Ilya. XP ^^;
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:29 PM   #336
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Whether the subs are to blame or not, I felt this way during this episode. I couldn't understand how Waver and Rider seemed to jump to as many seemingly random conclusions as they did from each other's equally random remarks. Though reading your summary afterwards helped clear the conversation up, and my heart certainly went out to the both of them.
Yuki, I think you're confused. What you quoted was something I said of Episode 11 and Episode 11v2. It had nothing to do with Episode 13, which is what your reply seems to insinuate. ^^;

Still reading the rest of your post but wanted to get this out there now so you could reply/edit/whatever.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:53 PM   #337
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Yuki, I think you're confused. What you quoted was something I said of Episode 11 and Episode 11v2. It had nothing to do with Episode 13, which is what your reply seems to insinuate. ^^;
I know. =x I'm just saying that's how I felt towards episode 13.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:41 AM   #338
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[x] stay night (anime)
[x] Extra
[x] Zero (anime)
[-] stay night (manga)
[] stay night (game)
[] UBW
[] Carnival Phantasm (do I need this one?)

I didn't give up my stockpiles getting somewhere! Thought of grabbing more of the manga but only 11 out of ??? volumes are out an since Tokyopop was releasing it... x_x; Games most important part but I stink at finding it or info on its requirements. I'll keep slowly poking around. When I get to playing Extra who should I go with for my servant o.o?
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:01 AM   #339
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The game: There's an appreciably-seeded torrent on Nyaa right now for the game w/ Japanese voices that's right around 4.0 gigabytes. If you don't do torrents, uh, I don't know what to tell you but someone else might. The torrent comes with an instruction manual on how to install the game and everything. Very helpful stuff, I should think. (I don't know as I didn't personally use that one. That one was created just this past October, but I installed back in Summer 2010.)

The UBW movie: I would get it. But I would strictly hold off on watching it until:
(a) you play the path, so that the movie makes more sense and you don't end up hating it; or else
(b) you decide, "You know, I'm never going to play the game, so let's just watch this and have fun. " But be prepared to be mega-confused as it totally assumes the viewer has played the game and goes through events not depicted in the FSN anime and at a blistering pace.

Carnival Phantasm: I would highly recommend this. You will love it unless you don't like comedy parodies. But like ... did you like Chibits (the Sumomo/Kotoko bonus at the end of Chobits)? If you liked Chibits, then you will love Carnival Phantasm. You can also start watching it now although some references may go over your head. (But it's not the end of the world and, having seen the FSN and Tsukihime animes, you're going to get ~85-90% of the references anyway.) But if you're only aiming for official stuff, then this one is strictly optional. It's based on the fan parody manga TAKE-MOON by Takenashi Eri, the lady who wrote the Kannagi ~ Crazy Shrine Maidens series. Obviously it has Type-Moon's blessing and stuff but the ideas are pretty much all hers. I guess I would say ... it's about as necessary to your collection as if CLAMP had done a Sailor Moon parody manga that all Sailor Moon fans loved but that wasn't done by Takeuchi Naoko.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #340
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Woahhhh 4gb for the game? That would take days to obtain! There's gotta be a lower spec version or however pc games work! Thats also way more space then I'm comfortable parting with x.x; I like silly comedy/parody stuff sooo I'll prolly look into that other show when its all done releasing.

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But be prepared to be mega-confused as it totally assumes the viewer has played the game and goes through events not depicted in the FSN anime and at a blistering pace.
That sounds like every tv or in this case game series compiled into movie form! Usually thats not a good thing! >.<
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:53 PM   #341
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Well, you can fit 4 gigs easily onto a single DVD+R; and then once you're done with the game, you can always copy your (tiny) save files to another folder and then uninstall the entire thing, freeing up hard drive space again.

The comedy show isn't going to be much different size-wise -- the latest episode was 500 MB @ 720p resolution, so the 480 XViD will probably be more than 350 MB -- and the UBW movie, similarly, was iirc anywhere from 2 to 4 gigs. (I know it fit onto a DVD+R, so ...)

Dunno if it's what you want to do, but you can get 1 TB hard drives these days for around $100. Could be worth it if you're feeling space-limited.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:51 PM   #342
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So it seems no one has seen Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya, or everyone thought it was horribad.

I liked it!
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:46 AM   #343
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^ I've heard about it before, but no, never really looked into it.

Anyway, came here to share this video trailer with you guys. It comes to you courtesy of a fellow Fate/Zero fan who is clearly either more obsessed with or more informed about franchise news than any of us. 'Cause this heralds from the official Fate/Zero television site, something I don't think I've checked in months, so ... yeah. ^_^; You can also watch a somewhat grainier version here on Nico Nico Douga if you have an NND account.

弟子ゼロ号, or Pupil No.0, is a character that has everyone buzzing. Some are speculating that she's a younger Fujimura Taiga and that the joke is that Irisviel is prepping her for the Taiga Dojo segments she will one day lead. Others are wondering if, like Seihai-kun in Carnival Phantasm, she's the anthropomorphized embodiment of the Fate/Zero franchise. Others still are saying that she's an entirely new character and that we'll find out more later. Who knows. (I'm in that last camp myself, though I could see the second theory as well. First one seems unlikely to me given No.0's voice, but who knows.)

If you click on the Movies tab on the television site, you'll discover that in addition to the 2-minute trailer, ufotable's produced nine 15-second television commercials advertising the March 7 release of the Blu-Rays. There are seven, one for each Master/Servant pairing, and then there're two more, one that features all seven Servants, the other which features all seven Masters. Nothing really worth seeing from what I clicked on, but you may get some pleasure out of watching these, so I'm pointing out their existence for you.

But yeah. Do be sure to watch the 2-minute trailer. If for nothing other than Irisviel.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #344
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Friendly reminder!

The second half of the Fate/Zero anime is set to start airing in about one month. Starting on March 24 and continuing on March 31, several television stations will be broadcasting what look to be recap episodes of the first half of the series. However, you really shouldn't substitute watching these for watching the original thirteen episodes! More importantly, if you still haven't gotten around to playing the visual novel Fate/stay night, now's a good time! It's a game you can comfortably complete in one month, playing through each of the three story paths (Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, and Heaven's Feel) in the course of about one to one and a half weeks apiece. After you beat it, you can either dive right into Fate/Zero, catching up on the thirteen episodes from last season that you have yet to see; or you can take a little break and then catch up once the second half of the television series has aired a small handful of episodes. Either way, you should be able to finish the game at a comfortable pace and then join in on the riveting discussions the second half of this epic story is sure to bring!

In other news, the OST is set to come out along with the Blu-Ray package that goes on sale March 7. So be sure to mark your calendars for that as well if you're eagerly looking forward to getting to hear the excellent music Kajiura Yuki composed for this series! I know I am!
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:05 PM   #345
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I give up again trying for FSN the game. I dun got the computer power or time or whatever for it!

I did play through Fate/Extra which was really fun. Very risky battle system where chance of getting your butt kicked is high. The red Saber wasn't very humble but cool in her own way. Cool graphics & music to. Story was pretty good until the end where I got completely lost x.x

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In other news, the OST is set to come out along with the Blu-Ray package that goes on sale March 7. So be sure to mark your calendars for that as well if you're eagerly looking forward to getting to hear the excellent music Kajiura Yuki composed for this series! I know I am!
The series is liscensed? I musta missed that! *goes to look it up*

- $500
- sub-only
- half the series

whaaaaaaaatttttt

Now I see why you can't afford manga you were saving up for something a million times more expensive @_@
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:59 PM   #346
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Fate Zero OST is ... I am almost crying ^^;, it's so good. This is so, so good. It's been a long wait, but we finally can listen to these audio tracks whenever we like.

A breakdown of what each track is and my own thoughts follow:

Spoiler: show
Track 01 is the epic song we all know and love, the one first heard during the epic summoning scene at the end of Episode 01 and since heard countless times over in other episodes with particularly awesome moments in them.

Track 02 is the song which played when Irisviel summoned her metallic falcon and kicked you-know-who's ass with it. Great, great song. Were the OST nothing more than these two songs, it'd already be a hit! Two songs in and we're a solid gold 2 for 2!

Track 03 is the melancholic remix of Track 01 that we heard, amongst other times, in the final episode of the first half of the series during the scene with ____ and ____ on the lamplit street. Learning how to play any one of these on piano would be time well spent.

Track 04 ... I can't place. It might be a Caster+Uryuu song? It might be a Kayneth+Lancer song? I don't know. It definitely evokes the mental imagery of somewhere dark and watery. Whether that's because I associate it with Caster's workshop or because I associate it with the dock fight with Lancer, I can't tell. Hell, it may not even be either of theirs: maybe it's Assassin's. Or maybe it's somebody else's. No clue. This is the first miss for me , but it's not a bad song. Just not one I'd want to listen to.

Track 05 is another dark, sinister-sounding song. It's much more energetic/forceful, though, than Track 04. Almost militant. I think it may be the song that played when Kariya agreed to go into the worm pit of Zouken's in Episode 01. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is. The song's eliciting some major mental imagery of Kariya talking with Zouken, so yeah, pretty sure that's what this is. It's another song that you could easily skip, but like Track 04, it's by no means bad.

Track 06 is, I think, from when Archer and Berserker first fight. Good, solid song. Not the sort of thing I'd personally listen to on my MP3 player? But it's a solid song and makes for epic background music during the episode proper. At the 1-minute mark, I can almost hear Gilgamesh angrily calling Berserker a dog. It really picks up at this point, too. At the 2-minute mark, it goes into a guitar riff that makes me think of KOEI's Dynasty Warriors.

Track 07's pretty forgettable imo. Good tone, yes, but not the sort of song you'd want to listen to all on its own. Or so I feel, anyway. Hard to tell who's this even is. It sounds like it's going for the Cradle of Civilization feel at times, so it's probably Gilgamesh music, but honestly, I don't remember him fighting anyone this season other than Assassin (lol) and Berserker, so perhaps it's not his and perhaps instead this is what played when Saber fought Berserker and Lancer. No clue though.

Track 08 is Rider's theme song. Not much more to say about this. It joins Tracks 01, 02, and 03 as a favorite of the soundtrack. At the 1-minute mark, it changes into this really beautiful flute piece that I'm not sure I've ever noticed before, probably because it's been subdued in the show so people can talk over it. It's really very pretty and sells the piece as more than being just Rider's theme medley.

Track 09 is from when Kiritsugu and Ilya went walnut hunting. Cute song, but I doubt we'll ever hear it again outside of maybe, possibly, (1) an Ilya cameo in the second half of the series or else (2) Saber (or some other kind-hearted servant) running into one of Fuyuki's children (like Rin, Sakura, or even Taiga). And I don't think either 1 or 2 are very likely, so ... this'll probably forever be The Walnut Hunt Song. ^_^; Awww.

Track 10 is the track the series opens with on the day of Ilya's birth. Epic, epic song. Even though I've heard it a dozen times before, I'm compelled to listen to the whole thing over again. It's just that good. It made at least one more appearance mid-series iirc, when Kiritsugu broke down atop Castle Einzbern and cried on Iri's shoulder pre-the fight with Kayneth, and so I suppose you could consider it, for the reason of its appearances, the Tragic Lovers Theme Song / the Kiritsugu & Irisviel Theme Song. The pick-up at 2m37s gets me every time. Just ... what can one say but "epic"? So sad that that term's been so abused to the point of it losing any oomph or meaning.

So anyway, we're 5 for 10 so far by my count, with Tracks 01, 02, 03, 08, and 10 being Must Have Music and the other five tracks, while not being must-haves, still being decent. Onward!

Track 11 is the unforgettable song from the castle garden in Episode 11 that plays at the very end, when Gilgamesh tells Saber, "Maybe you'll prove worthy of my affections yet! A HA HA HA HA!" While not quite as powerful as its sister song from the episode's climax, this is another Must Have, to be sure. We're six for eleven!

Track 12 is, on the other hand, pretty forgettable. It's decent-enough background music, but I can't even peg who this goes to. Kotomine? Tokiomi? Assassin? Caster+Uryuu? Lancer's lair? No effing clue. Next!

Track 13 I'm pretty sure is one we've heard in connection with several characters. I think we first hear it in Episode 01 when Waver goes to the library to research the Grail Wars. Another time we hear it is when Kiritsugu is memorably munching on that burger whilst going over his battle map in the hotel room. It's a useful song that the director/producers have been able to use when they want to use it, how they want to use it, to elicit the right sort of mood from the viewer for each particular scene it shows up. Pretty neat! But not the sort of song I'm itching to listen to on my MP3 player.

Track 14 is really familiar. Really, really familiar. I want to say this is another Matou song. It's either Kirei and Tokiomi or else it's Zouken and Kariya. Possibly both. Solid bg song, but nothing you'd want to listen to ordinarily. So we've gone from six of eleven being epic to now only six of fourteen. Still not bad! And we've still got ten tracks to listen to.

Track 15 is the song that played when Assassin invaded the Tokiomi crystal garden. Poor bastard.

Track 16 is 100% Uryuu's theme song. The one that plays when we first meet him in Episode 02 while he's talking to the boy. The cello is really quite lovely here. It's just too bad the song is connected with such an evil, sick character. ^^;

Track 17 may as well not even exist. For the first thirty seconds, nothing happens! For the next fifteen, the noise gets a little louder, but other than that, still nothing! There's no melody here. It's just ... noise! Next!

Track 18 sounds positively deadly. It's an interesting mix between traditional Japanese flute arrangements and the sound most modern composers go for when trying to imitate the Middle East. It doesn't really evoke a mental image of one servant (Assassin) over another (Archer), but it definitely has that pseudo-Middle Eastern flair around the 1m20s to 1m40s mark. Not sure whose song this was in the show. Moving on ...

Track 19 starts off super-exciting but the melody (or lack thereof) it proceeds to develop doesn't really excite me much. Once again, this is decent background music, but I don't really remember this song ever showing up in the show. ^^; Probably because when it did, I was so enthralled by what was happening onscreen that I didn't have time to pay attention to such an unimpressive piece. It may be what played when Caster kidnapped all the children and fought Saber? I don't know? But whatever it is, it's tense.

Track 20 is the sneak peek melody, which itself is ripped straight out of Track 01. I'd love to award it the point, but since it's little more than a rip, I can't. Next!

Track 21 ... this one is beautiful. I don't remember where I first heard it, but I do remember that, upon hearing it, I knew I had to have the soundtrack. I'm pretty sure the last time we hear it, again, is in that scene between _____ and ______ on the lamplit street at night in Episode 13. Or perhaps it's from when Saber and Iri are having their conversation about ______'s health? I wonder if we might not have also heard it in the scene in Episode 10 between Aoi and Kariya. Hmm ... anyway, this one, while very simple, is a fantastic song. That brings us to seven must-haves out of twenty-one. The ratio has certainly long since abandoned a 1:1 one ^^;, but hey! I'll still take this many. And we've got three tracks remaining.

Track 22 is Rider's Ionian Hetairoi song. Yuki will doubtless want this one as soon as she gets back to her apartment. It sounds positively cinematic. Very professional. (Go, Kajiura, go!) Evokes the mental imagery of such films as Gladiator. In fact, I'd say it was very probably inspired by the main theme song of that film. But that doesn't change the fact that (1) it's its own piece and (2) it's quite nice. It has a bit of a lull in the middle, but then around 1m40s~ish, it goes into this sweeping emotional bit with the strings, and it just gets louder, more glorious, and before you know it ... 2m18s hits you, and we're back to where we started, only several times more epic. And you just know: you are listening to the theme song that pairs with one of the most incredible Noble Phantasms of all time. I wouldn't put this on my MP3 player personally? ^^; But it's a definite eighth hit.

Track 23 is disappointingly short and doesn't really do anything. Next!

Track 24 ... *exhales*, phew! You guys scared me! After having heard the other song from Episode 11 ages ago, I was starting to get worried when I wasn't hearing the best one! "Did they purposely leave it out? Do they plan on releasing it with a second OST? " Well, no: they were just trollin'. Or, you could say, they were saving the best for last. Because Track 24 is, hands down, one of the most gorgeous pieces I've ever heard in any anime ... and yet at the same time, it 100% drives the plot where it appears. That scene in the Einzbern Castle garden with Saber, Rider, and Archer is one I'll never forget till the day I die. Just listening to this song now ... my skin is shivering, I'm getting goosebumps, and I can see Saber's poor traumatized face as Rider just utterly and completely rips into her failures as a leader of men. It was a long road, listening to each of the songs one at a time, but I finally found what I was searching for. (Well, this and Track 01, of course, which probably remains my personal favorite. Epic summoning scene for the win! ) But I'm definitely going to re-listen to Track 24 right now. In the words of Charlie Brown, "The grief ... it is good."

Of the twenty-four tracks on the CD, I'd say that at least nine of them are songs you'd want to have in your music collection, for sure, and that maybe three to five of them are songs I'd personally consider putting on an MP3 player. That's pretty solid in my book, particularly when we're talking about a television soundtrack, where not every song is meant to be listened to on its own, and not a music album by a recording artist, where every song is meant to be listened to on its own. The top three highlights for me are Tracks 01, 02, and 24. Your results may (and probably will) vary, but there's something here for everyone, so be sure to check it out!
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #347
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Talon, you have exactly 70 70 posts. This is a stupendous moment. We must celebrate.


Okay, no, that's not why I'm here. I've actually been interested in playing fate/stay for a really long time, ever since I read the first book of the manga adaption. Anyone have any advice on how to get my hands on it?
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:39 AM   #348
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I've actually been interested in playing fate/stay for a really long time, ever since I read the first book of the manga adaption. Anyone have any advice on how to get my hands on it?
We can't link you to anything like that. You're just going to have to search for it yourself.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:33 AM   #349
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I give up again trying for FSN the game. I dun got the computer power or time or whatever for it!
How's this possible? :/

The game was meant to run on computers in 2004. Even with your computer as old as it is, if you can handle anime, you can certainly handle some old arse VN.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:04 PM   #350
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I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in "I'm Going to Hell", so I think I'll post it here, and link it from there.
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あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
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