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Old 01-11-2018, 02:24 AM   #4651
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Waterium Z Golduck best PDon counter
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:45 PM   #4652
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just lorb scald works i think
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:32 AM   #4653
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just lorb scald works i think
Yeah but that makes you a chad.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:13 AM   #4654
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hey we flexin that duckLORD over here you already know
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:46 PM   #4655
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Apparently Ash-Greninja got Gunk Shot as with the US/UM move tutor, but it doesn't move the needle at all as far as its viability.

Even if you gave Water Shuriken 5 hits, which functionally makes it a priority Hydro Pump (with one hit on average getting a critical), the free move slot doesn't do any good. Water Shuriken's Hydro Vortex is much weaker than Hydro Pump's, so it no longer does enough damage to threats like Magearna. Meanwhile, Extrasensory/Ice Beam don't do enough to damage any other checks except Toxapex.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:01 PM   #4656
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Gunk Shot is only really for Tapu Fini and maybe Clefable. The reason why its so good on normal Greninja is because Greninja gets stab on it and simultaneously will resist Moonblast while Ash Greninja doesn't.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:09 PM   #4657
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Even with the STAB, the biggest benefit for Protean are the resistances that come with the type switch. It takes a lot less pressure off needing to OHKO would-be checks.

As a fun exercise, I wanted to see how G1 Mewtwo would do in the SM meta, with the following characteristics:

-154 SpD
-252 EVs in every stat
-+2 SpA, SpD Amnesia

Moves: Amnesia, Psystrike, Ice Beam, Fire Blast
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure

I didn't correct for: criticals, G1's Psychic environment (where only weak super effective moves existed) or adjustments the meta makes to combat Mewtwo, assuming Geomancy Xerneas is similar enough to not affect builds much.
Mewtwo is always the first Pokemon sent out to take advantage of its speed for a fast setup + sweep.

Some takeaways, down the viability:

-Mega Rayquaza: Mewtwo goes +2, KO's
-Primal Groudon: phases it with Roar, but Mewtwo takes out 40% of its health with Ice Beam
-Dusk Mane Necrozma: Mewtwo goes +2 and KO's. Mewtwo can't risk Swords Dance.
-Yveltal: Choice Scarf Yveltal 2HKOs Mewtwo with Foul Play
-Xerneas: Mewtwo goes +6, KO's and probably sweeps
-Marshadow: Mewtwo KO's with Psystrike after tanking Shadow Sneak
-Mega Gengar: Mewtwo ties it in speed, but Mega Gengar loses almost every matchup due to Psystrike. Best move is to probably Taunt or Burn.
-Zygarde Complete: Mewtwo goes +2, Zygarde paralyzes it. Zygarde dies to a +2 Ice Beam but Mewtwo can continue to set up
-Arceus Ground: OHKO's Mewtwo with Z-Tectonic Rage
-Primal Kyogre: Mewtwo goes +6, KO's and probably sweeps
-Gothitelle: Best move is Trick Room, but Mewtwo goes +6.
-Ho-Oh: Gets in one Sacred Fire before the KO. Mewtwo +2.
-Magearna: Mewtwo boosts itself to +6, then drops Psystrike on +6 Magearna.

A- through D: No unique challengers compared to above.

Edit: Actually, looks like I was wrong about Yveltal and Arceus-Ground.
Foul Play fails 73% of the time to 1HKO Mewtwo if you give him 0 IVs and 0 EVs in Attack.
Arceus-Ground:
252 Atk Arceus-Ground Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo on a critical hit: 352-415 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ain't happening. RBY Mewtwo still wrecks the meta like it's 1999. Only Primal Groudon and Dusk Mane Necrozma give him pause.
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:49 AM   #4658
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Pretty big news

Apparently everyone thought that the base critical hit rate in Gen VII was 1/16. Turns out it's actually 1/24. Showdown just updated with the change.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:24 PM   #4659
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How did this go unnoticed?
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:42 PM   #4660
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Response from a dude on Smogon:

"At a guess, it's because crits seemed completely unchanged at a glance (higher stage crit chances were unchanged) so nobody really went looking and it's not something that'd immediately stand out just from playing - 4.16% vs 6.25% isn't so drastic a change that people would notice in particular, they're both fairly unlikely but not overwhelmingly unlikely.

Keep in mind that relatively obscure stuff pops up from time to time much later than you'd expect - for example the Sleep Talk mechanics in gen III weren't discovered until 9 years after gen IV released."

---

This is probably the most likely explanation. Another example is this MAJOR discovery made about gen 1 mechanics in late 2014. The biggest takeaway from it is that Body Slam is a very commonly used move in RBY, and it turns out that it cannot paralyze Normal types. With Tauros, Snorlax, and Chansey being used on almost every team this was a huge realization. And it wasn't until over fifteen years later that anyone noticed!
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:15 PM   #4661
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The Gen I discovery actually changed like, how you play the Gen I OU metagame, its bonkers.

Well that and Counter Chansey.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:36 AM   #4662
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That's pretty inexcusable, in both cases, without needing to look at code. Just running aggregate statistical data should be able to sell you the crit or paralysis rates. You have well over 1,000 samples...closer to a hundred times that...so it should be sitting in plain sight.

To me, this underlines a problem systemic to what is effectively children's hobbies, in that someone with advanced statistical knowledge aren't present in the communities. Not compared to baseball's sabermetrics, which was what made baseball first accessible to me back in 2007, when I was studying econometrics.

This bugged me way more with Yu-Gi-Oh! though, since internally but I didn't have the tools or the controlled environment to test my suspicions, and now that my deck is worthless I don't care anymore.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:49 AM   #4663
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Needlefiber wants attention senpai.
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:54 PM   #4664
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It's one thing with Gen VII where lots of weird things changed but it wasn't obvious, and this was largely a chance-related thing.

Even with Gen I the Gen I games were only properly disassembled like a yearish ago, so you would literally need to hexedit hex values of the nasty tangle of assembly that is Gen I game to discover mechanics like that. You'd basically have to know what you're looking for to ever discover it. Otherwise, why would you expect this specific irregular behavior if nothing even close to clear pointed to it?
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Old 02-08-2018, 06:46 PM   #4665
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:13 PM   #4666
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Altaria

So salty, this guy xd;
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Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:33 AM   #4667
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Still got it.

A hard fought victory (featuring genesis supernova in psychic terrain)
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Last edited by Heather; 02-10-2018 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:30 PM   #4668
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The hax was definitely even that game, he was probably mad because you forgot sleep clause and he still lost xd
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:36 PM   #4669
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Altaria

A close call
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Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:52 PM   #4670
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Altaria

A REALLY CLOSE CALL
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Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:11 AM   #4671
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Altaria

When Solid Rock actually makes a difference
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if u read this ur gay

Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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