Pokémon Sun and Moon General Discussion [Spoiler Warning]

[Ironthunder]

tbh the best answer is to just keep the spoilers limited until after Christmas or release, whichever the spoiler-frees want. Yes people want shiny new avatars and sigs, but they can do without them. Anyone who thinks otherwise seriously needs to fucking rethink. Asking/forcing people to duck out of the forum for a few weeks is more likely to lead to those people not returning. And also it's really hard to avoid something that's become a part of their daily/weekly routine like UPN is for most people. I say as I check stuff while I need to be revising for my exam this saturday.

[Mercutio]

Alternate perspective: people need to grow up.

Want to avoid Pokémon spoilers? Don't log on to a Pokémon forum.

It really is that simple.

If not coming on to a Pokémon forum seriously harms your happiness then you almost certainly need to rethink your life.

[Jerichi]

...Said the pot to the kettle

I enact this policy because Kuno wants it and it's Kuno's forum. For now I'm saying until the game come out, which is intentionally noncommittal.

[deoxys]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Alternate perspective: people need to grow up.

Want to avoid Pokémon spoilers? Don't log on to a Pokémon forum.

It really is that simple.

If not coming on to a Pokémon forum seriously harms your happiness then you almost certainly need to rethink your life.

Honestly man that's a pretty shitty perspective. People consider this community more than "just a Pokemon forum", and if that's all it is to you, then so be it, but it simply isn't that way to many of us who have spent a large part of our lives interacting with each other. Perhaps for many the draw to UPN is PASBL or the other independent forums, but there are those of us who consider the rest of UPN an Internet home of familiar friends (always open to newcomers of course) who make up a community of different interests and opinions and perspectives.

As far as spoilers go, there are those who want to go into the games with as little info on them as possible, to get that same kind of feeling and enjoyment out of them they had in the past. There is quite simply nothing like playing a brand new Pokemon adventure, not knowing what the new Pokemon are, or what the region is like - running into a wild Pokemon you've never seen before and going "Holy shit, what IS that!?" or watching it evolve for the first time into something you have no idea of, I'd say that at its core that embodies the Pokemon experience.

And on top of that, Kuno is strictly an anti-spoiler individual, and seeing as he has the final say on how the forum operates, that's all the reason he needs to give anyway.

I will admit that I proposed the idea of a sub-forum for Gen 7 spoilers to Kuno, but he had a point: spoilers in the thread titles showing on the front page would be inescapable when the thread has a new reply - though, now that I think of it, I guess there could be a "no spoilers in the thread title" policy, and everyone would be happy. I don't know. It doesn't really matter though, as Jeri said, this is Kuno's forum.

[biggggg5]

Multiple islands confirmed in the Features & Details

[Rangeet]

Guys come on. Have you ever been to places like /r/asoiaf? The books came out before I was born and yet you still cannot post spoilers in threads that are not explicitly marked for it.

That being said, the avatar/signature rules complicate it a bit, but I'm sure we can all agree that you can wait to get cool Gen7 sigs until the games actually come out. For fuck's sake, I intentionally haven't gotten the Undertale avatar because I don't want to spoil anyone, and I won't get that avatar until Toby gives the okay for the game to be on a GDQ.

At the same time it also shouldn't be too difficult a thing to make a Gen 7 discussion subforum and ban spoilers in post titles. Spoilers in post titles are honestly really easy to avoid- you have an entire post where you can elaborate on your vague title and this is not internet news where you won't get clicks without clickbait titles. I mean...there is an alternative (only make the forum visible to people in a particular group where they'd choose to be in) but good grief why would you bother with that.

At the end of the day it's Kuno's choice but I really think making a subforum with no spoiler titles allowed would be the perfect choice.

[Heather]

I mean Ithink when the games come out maybe basic things that have been revealed already i.e. starters for avi's and sigs? Even thoughIprobably have to wait till christmas, I want my Litten avi ASAP tbph

[Snorby]

I think a spoiler subforum w/o title spoiers would be optimal too. It allows the people who want to keep up on the latest official stuff but don't want unofficially leaked stuff anywhere near them to be accommodated, which almost nothing else would do

[Talon87]

Alright, so let's pretend we were going to make Gen 7 discussion threads and were trying to decide on what to name them. IMO, these thread titles would work pretty well at the level of the Pokémon forum, i.e. not in a subforum, but in Pokémon itself. If you want to put the threads into a Gen 7 subforum and keep them there for all time, well then I guess you could delete the "Gen 7" in front of every thread title. Other options in place of "Gen 7" would include "New" or the suffix "Discussion". Whatever. There are workable permutations. Let's get started ...

Spoiler: show

Gen 7 Region

• discussion is strictly about Alola. Its name, it being Hawaii, its map ... think geography and culture only. No creature, character, mechanic, or item discussions here. Cities, landmarks, regional history, religion and mythology ... stuff like that goes well here.

Gen 7 Creatures

• discussion is about all the new creatures
• but to avoid spoiling people on stuff like "OMG NEW EEVEELUTION" or "OMG GIGA MEWTWO", you would have to post such news inside of this thread as well. They couldn't receive their own stand-alone threads because "New Eeveelution Discussion" or "New Evos for Old Pokémon" is inherently a spoiler.
• creature-related leaks, like the possible types of Alola's starters' evolutions, would go here too. Community's decision whether to spoiler tag that information before Nintendo officially confirms it or not, but this would certainly be the thread for it.

Gen 7 Characters

• this is where you discuss new characters like Kukui and Hala
• this is also where you discuss announced cameos like (suppose) Cynthia or Red
• this is also where you discuss who you'd like to see in the game, announced or not

Gen 7 Plot Speculation

• This is where you discuss reveals about the story, e.g. they reveal the new enemy is a group of environmentalists that are resorting to terrorism to fend off Pokémon hunters. (Too topical? Too TROPICAL? ;D)
• This is where you speculate about the story, however grounded or ungrounded your theories are.
• Discussion about the timeline would go here.
• Discussion about Alola's relationship with other regions and the events we've seen depicted in those regions would probably go here as well.

Gen 7 Gameplay & Mechanics

• This would be where you would discuss things like ...
  • Gen 3's EV overhaul
  • Gen 3's Abilities and Natures
  • Gen 4's physical/special split
  • Gen 6's Mega Evolution
  • Gen 6's Fairy type
  You get the picture. Big, revolutionary changes to how the game is played.
• This would also be where you would discuss more minor gameplay novelties like:
  • XY's player customization (which I know we all love, but I'm just saying it's "minor" compared with the frickin' physical/special split)
  • XY's Pokémon-Amie
  • ORAS's DexNav
• Were they to reveal another IV/EV overhaul, were they to reveal changes to how breeding works, were they to reveal that all Gen 7 legendaries come automatically with six 31s, whatever ... anything new you can imagine that builds off of or veers away from the existing architecture, that discussion would probably go here.

Gen 7 Fan Responses

• Sorry. Thread title sucks. But I didn't want to restrict it to just fanart.
• This is where you'd post fanart, of course.
• But it's also where you might discuss a terribad Kotaku article ...
• Or where you might discuss a Serebii member's vision for what he wants Gen 7 to be ...

Gen 7 Features From Other Media?

• again, sorry for the bad title
• but this would be where you'd discuss things like Zygarde's forms, Ash-Greninja, and other things that currently exist in the anime, the trading card game, and other media but which do not yet exist in the main series video games
• the moment those things were confirmed, like let's say they confirm that the evolution Ash's Greninja undergoes in the XY&Z anime is going to be a game feature in Sun and Moon, that's when you'd move that particular discussion over to the corresponding thread, which in the case of our example would be the Gameplay & Mechanics thread since it concerns itself with the new evolution mode. Let's say it had been Zygarde's forms instead. Well then that discussion would move over to Creatures, because it's more about Zygarde at that point than it is about "omg did you know that legendaries have this mechanic called form change!? :o"

This list is almost certainly incomplete. But a few words about threads I deliberately didn't suggest ...

• I wouldn't make a Leaks thread. If something is leaked, the discussion really should go in the corresponding (and in most cases already existing) thread. Whether it's a type leak or a character leak, whether it's a plot leak or a release date leak ... The moment you start making a Leaks thread to hold all the leaks, you're going to find that the most excited discussion takes place in the Leaks thread and then it's only afterthought posts that wind up in the official thread once Nintendo slowpoke confirms that the leak is for real.
• I wouldn't make a General Discussion thread. This is 99% guaranteed to become the "discuss anything and everything here! " thread and then your other threads are just going to be pointless existences. If there isn't a suitable thread to house the discussion that a member wants to have, then that member should make a suitable thread to house it. (Example: if we don't have a thread about the actual sale of the video game, including sales dates and promotional deals and pre-order goodies, so on and so forth, then maybe someone should just make a thread with a title to match.) If there is already a thread to house that discussion, then really you should be discussing it there. Don't be discussing "OMG ROWLET IS SO ADORBS" in General Discussion when you have a perfectly good Creatures thread to gush about Rowlet in.
• The biggest problem with a General Discussion thread is, it's going to be a morass of spoiler tagging disputes. When you separate discussion topics out by their individual threads, it becomes very easy for people to tailor spoiler season to suit their own needs. "I don't want creature spoilers but I'm happy to discuss the plot." "I don't want plot spoilers but I'm happy to see the entire Dex ahead of time." These two are on opposite sides. They don't clash when they post in their respective threads. But put them in General Discussion and it's going to be, "YOU SHOULD HAVE SPOILER TAGGED THAT!" "WHY!? IT'S COMMON KNOWLEDGE AND THIS IS THE SPOILER FORUM!" "NOT FOR ME IT WASN'T! I WAS AVOIDING THAT THREAD!" Etc, etc. Someone comes along and suggests, "Why not just spoiler tag everything when posting in General Discussion?" and now the thread looks stupid. "Come here to discuss spoilers! Hide all your discussions inside spoiler tags! " Oh come on. Just don't do it. A general discussion thread sounds good in theory, but in practice it's more trouble than it's worth. Just make individual threads for the individual discussion topics.
• No need for a CoroCoro thread. It's pointless. CoroCoro is shitting the bed with SM's pre-release, and besides: anything they WOULD reveal would go in one of the other threads ANYWAY. There is literally no reason to have one discussion taking place for the magazine and a separate but nearly identical discussion taking place for the actual content. If CoroCoro reveals anything worth talking about, just put it in the appropriate thread, people.

Spoiler tagged for length, and also because people keep repeating that Kuno's put his foot down on this one so *shrug*. Doesn't affect me much anyway, and if the decision not to have a Gen 7 subforum is final then it's final. But for anyone interested in how I might approach it, enjoy the tl;dr above.

[Mercutio]

We are probably over thinking this. Keep it to this thread

[Ironthunder]

See talon, if we had enough discussion to warrant that many threads on it, I'd agree, but that level of categorization will probably result in a bunch of half-dead threads.

The Features from Other Media thing sounds a lot like it belongs in with the Mechanics thread. Characters and Plot Speculation are likely to be heavily interlinked, so merging those makes sense, or merging Region and Characters.
Leaving:
-Plot/Characters thread
-Mechanics thread
-New mons thread
-Fanart thread
-Region thread

And even then I think five threads is a bit much.

[DaveTheFishGuy]

I'm pretty sure when Gen VI happened we just kept things to a thread like this, then I started up the playthrough thread in the Pokémon forum while marking that it would have spoilers in it. Then a while later everything spread out to the rest of the forum. We could just do that again.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by DaveTheFishGuy

I'm pretty sure when Gen VI happened we just kept things to a thread like this, then I started up the playthrough thread in the Pokémon forum while marking that it would have spoilers in it. Then a while later everything spread out to the rest of the forum. We could just do that again.

Yes, let's ignore how we did it literally every other time.

Don't get me wrong. I'm one of the beneficiaries of our forum's Gen 6 pre-release rules, and I stand to benefit again from similar rules for Gen 7. But I don't have a problem with engaging in discussion about how we've done things before and what might work better in the future. I am open to improvement. Unlike the two of you negative Nancies who don't seem to be very happy when the thread veers away from talk about Litten porn.

[DaveTheFishGuy]

I'm not sure how saying 'Hey this worked' is negative, but alright. Also given the only Gen I've been around here for the release of is Gen V, and I can't exactly remember how that went down, I can't exactly see a whole lot of precedent.

[Talon87]

Sorry if I was terse. It just seemed like Kush was vetoing a conversation he has no right vetoing and then you jumped in and were the Skull to his Bulk. I didn't appreciate either the veto attitude or the perceived bandwagoning. But I apologize to both of you.

I don't think it's right to dismiss this conversation. It isn't harmful to have it. It can only be at its very worst a waste of time. Let the people have it who want to have it. Something good might come out of it.

[Mercutio]

You can talk about whatever you would like to Talon. You're just spectacularly over thinking a total non issue :p

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

You can talk about whatever you would like to Talon. You're just spectacularly over thinking a total non issue :p

But then why be condescending about it? Let me decide how I spend my time and whether I think it's a waste or not. If all you really have to say is, "You guys are overthinking this," is it even worth posting? Serious question. All you're doing is insulting the people who want to discuss the issue, dismissing their thoughts and concerns as "overthought." If you don't have a horse in the race, why enter?

[DaveTheFishGuy]

I'm not opposed to it at all, it just seems like a slippery slope toward ending up like SPPf and having a subforum for pretty much every aspect of discussion about the games. I was just meaning that it worked just fine last time, but I wouldn't be against threads for various aspects. Just seemed like it could be a bit of clutter, is all!

[Mercutio]

Talon, had you considered the alternative possibility that you are in fact over thinking a non-issue?

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Talon, had you considered the alternative possibility that you are in fact over thinking a non-issue?

Yes, I had.

[dirkac]

Fivr of the Gym Leaders have been leaked!
(Spoilered for size)

Spoiler: show

im not sorry

Anyway.
I think that really all discussion should be able to be contained in this Thread without clutter.
UPN isn't nowhere near ax big as BMGf or SPPf to warrant multiple discussion threads.

If people reallly think Avatars and Signatures are a problem, then I don't know what to say. Both are meaningless enough to be able to not include Spoilers for a few months?

On Spoilers, though, I think keeping a Spoiler Ban until Christmas is a good idea, although persobally, since they were officially released, showing Litten, Rowlet, and Popplio should be fine.

[Rangeet]

Kush, have you considered the fact that you are objectively wrong given that so many other people want the spoiler forum?

[Ironthunder]

...Geet as far as I can see there's just Talon who wants the forum.

[Rangeet]

And deoxys, and Snorby, and me, and that's just so far.

[Ironthunder]

Yes, and there's at least four against: FishDave, kush, me and dirkac. And that's just so far as well. There's nowhere near the majority you were implying.