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Old 12-26-2007, 04:20 AM   #51
SSJ_Jupiter81
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Could someone PM me or post (in spoiler tags) what Sai's true mission is? I'm rather curious, and have been for a while.
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Old 12-27-2007, 02:43 AM   #52
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

I just found out...I'll PM you.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:26 AM   #53
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Wow. This thread hasn't been posted in in ages. Maybe I shouldn't cross-post this. But somebody recently thanked me on another forum I go to for writing this post back in January. I re-read it, I agreed with it very strongly (LOL!, duh, I wrote it! ), and I thought I'd share it here as well.

================================================

The sannin were supposed to be legendary and now they're trash (by comparison with the newer villains).

The nine-tailed fox was supposed to be the threat to life as we know it, and now it's hardly a threat at all to multiple characters. (e.g. Sasuke)

Itachi's slaughter of the Uchiha clan was meant to be a horrible act and a devastating blow to Konoha's power, and now it's nothing more than a failed attempt to prevent Madara, Danzou, etc. from overthrowing the ruling body of the village.

Death was supposed to be forever, and now we already have several characters who have risen back from the dead -- quite literally (e.g. Gaara) and other times through silly plot devices (e.g. Deidara, who not only survived but even got his arm back -- WTF. If he got his fucked-up arm-with-a-mouth back so easily, why the fuck couldn't Orochimaru slice off his own arms and get a new pair!? I thought Orochimaru was supposed to be the land's resident master on all things Frankensteinian!?)

But in all fairness, the show has never been perfect. Season 1 (imo) was very boring, and also very unrealistic. Two A-level ninjas vs. one A-level and three rookies on their first mission? And somehow the rookies come out on top? Then we had Season 2, much loved by all (self included), and yet it's the season to be blamed for producing a Konoha in which every single fuckin' kid is a potential world-saving prodigy. I mean, seriously, no offense to Ino, Chouji, and the rest of them, but they should never have even been portrayed as being stronger than Iruka (a long-time chuunin!), let alone on par with their jounin-level mentors and in some cases on par with the jinchuuriki Gaara and Naruto.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:49 AM   #54
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Hey Talon, are you going to be picking this up again? The manga itself is rapidly approaching the final battle, and the anime (I believe) has already passed the Pain Arc, since Killer Bee was introduced already. There's more than enough material to do another run (although I don't know where you stopped).

Interestingly, I don't even like Naruto all that much anymore, but as a side effect of playing "Billy vs SNAKEMAN" I ended up reading through it again and participating in discussion. I've said this before, but it's a fine internet example of Stockholm Syndrome.

I want to address your post, but I don't know your status and I don't want to pepper my response with spoiler tags all over the place.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:44 AM   #55
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No, I am not. An old UPN friend of mine tells me the newest updates via telephone, and I don't like what I've heard. The manga has de-evolved in quality at a rapid pace in my opinion, in no small part thanks to Shonen Jump Syndrome. Furthermore, as written in the above post, while I enjoyed watching Naruto up through certain benchmarks, the show has never been a pinnacle of perfect writing.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:04 AM   #56
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Alright, I'll take that as a green light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
The sannin were supposed to be legendary and now they're trash (by comparison with the newer villains).
Not completely true, some abilities tend to fluctuate. Jiraiya was said to be unable to stop 4-Tail Naruto, which Orochimaru handled fairly well, yet Jiraiya was also said to be capable of beating Pain, who easily stopped 6-Tailed Naruto and was capable of stopping 8-Tailed Naruto.

Tsunade was (imo) consistently portrayed as the weakest Sannin in terms of jutsu knowledge and chakra power, and if anything that hasn't changed.

Oro is also fairly consistent in being portrayed as the most dangerous/strongest of the three, although truth be told he appeared weaker than he should because his jutsu repertoire was simplified from "almost all the jutsu in the world" to snake-themed jutsu.

The Sannin were famous as three Hokage-level Konoha ninja who left their village, something unusual because ninja typically don't leave their village under any circumstance and certainly not at that level of power.

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The nine-tailed fox was supposed to be the threat to life as we know it, and now it's hardly a threat at all to multiple characters. (e.g. Sasuke)
Never more true than in the recent chapters.

Kyuubi is no longer a force to be feared, but sympathized. In fact, I'm starting to think he's the real Naruto and the blond haired kid is just a split personality. His history is basically being mind controlled/enslaved by ninja or locked in a cage (i.e., jinchuuriki or pots/kettles).

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Itachi's slaughter of the Uchiha clan was meant to be a horrible act and a devastating blow to Konoha's power, and now it's nothing more than a failed attempt to prevent Madara, Danzou, etc. from overthrowing the ruling body of the village.
Not absolutely true even before the Uchiha were retooled as antagonists.

Kakashi was said to be exceptionally skilled with his Sharingan despite being a non-Uchiha, so much so that it overshadowed his otherwise brilliant abilities and his family history (his father was very famous) and defined his nickname. This suggests that, if there were a lot of Uchiha Jounin, they were either a) not as skilled as Kakashi, which is plausible given Sasuke and Kakashi were considered prodigies, and/or b) the Jounin Uchiha didn't go on enough missions to gain infamy, which would be 100% accurate if almost all their time was spent patrolling an otherwise very peaceful village as police.

Sasuke's Magenkyo Sharingan is so overpowered and dominates him so it's often easy to forget that, like with regular Jutsu, most people wouldn't be able to perform certain high level techniques. I'd be willing to bet that, rather than unstoppable death machines, most Uchiha were par with equivalent ranks from other villages or were prevented from engaging many other ninja.

Another example - Killer Bee didn't even realize Sasuke had a Sharingan until Sasuke activated his Magenkyo and used it on him. While Bee is exceptionally talented as a Jounin, his Taijutsu was so good the Sharingan didn't matter. Kumogakure seems to place heavy emphasis on Taijutsu strength, so I doubt the Uchiha were ever much of a threat to them.

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Death was supposed to be forever, and now we already have several characters who have risen back from the dead -- quite literally (e.g. Gaara) and other times through silly plot devices (e.g. Deidara, who not only survived but even got his arm back -- WTF. If he got his fucked-up arm-with-a-mouth back so easily, why the fuck couldn't Orochimaru slice off his own arms and get a new pair!? I thought Orochimaru was supposed to be the land's resident master on all things Frankensteinian!?)
Several? More like everyone.

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Two A-level ninjas vs. one A-level and three rookies on their first mission? And somehow the rookies come out on top?
Eh, I wouldn't have called Haku a Jounin given the Chuunin Exam's standard for Jounin strength. He had the power, but lacked the experience, which did him in.

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Then we had Season 2, much loved by all (self included), and yet it's the season to be blamed for producing a Konoha in which every single fuckin' kid is a potential world-saving prodigy. I mean, seriously, no offense to Ino, Chouji, and the rest of them, but they should never have even been portrayed as being stronger than Iruka (a long-time chuunin!), let alone on par with their jounin-level mentors and in some cases on par with the jinchuuriki Gaara and Naruto.
I disagree. All of the Konoha ninja you're referring to were the kids of pre-existing Jounin from families/clans that tend to produce Jounin and also have special Jutsu. While it might seem that Konoha produces more Jounin than other villages, that is only because the Rookie 9 were all close to each other in age and so competed together in the same Chuunin Exam, creating the illusion that Konoha puts out a lot of Jounin kids per exam.

Not only that, some clan members are perhaps more powerful than the Rookie 9. Example, Abarame Shino has a relative in Danzo's Root who fudged up Madara, quite badly in fact. He possessed a rare Bug jutsu that none of the other living Abarame family members were able to master.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:11 AM   #57
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I really, really hate it when I (or others) make "quote posts," and my reply to yours just now would be an epic quote-post. So ... I'm going to take your replies to my quotey-bits one at a time in the following replies. It will look like less of a wall of text that way and be more manageable for readers, selves included, I hope. Expect the first reply then in a bit.

EDIT: You sorta made a quote post, but I'm not making a jab at you. When I say "quote-post," I mean, like, quoting every other line and then replying to it. Which is what I would have to do if not for my alternative.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:30 AM   #58
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Quote:
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The sannin were supposed to be legendary and now they're trash (by comparison with the newer villains).
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Not completely true, some abilities tend to fluctuate.
The abilities you go on to list are all after-the-fact. I will address them as you bring them up, but the first thing we must point out is that the legendary sannin were praised to be "the three best ninjas of the land" all through Seasons 2, 3, and 4. Stories were told of them. It was said that none could match their brilliance, fortuitousness, or strength. This is canon. This is repeated over and over for as long as I can remember when we first explore Orochimaru's character in Season 2, Jiraiya's next in Season 3, and Tsunade's next in Season 4.

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Jiraiya was said to be unable to stop 4-Tail Naruto, which Orochimaru handled fairly well, yet Jiraiya was also said to be capable of beating Pain, who easily stopped 6-Tailed Naruto and was capable of stopping 8-Tailed Naruto.
These claims were not made until Naruto Shippuuden began, long after the original claims were made about the legendary sannin's legendary status. Point #1.

Point #2, this is a prime example of Kishimoto's sloppy writing. He throws logic out the window for the sake of next week's big Shonen Jump surprise factor. How is it possible that Jiraiya can both be weaker than the four-tailed Naruto and yet stronger than the six-tailed Naruto? Answer: it can't be possible, it's illogical.

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Tsunade was (imo) consistently portrayed as the weakest Sannin in terms of jutsu knowledge and chakra power, and if anything that hasn't changed.
With this, I agree. However, I would point out the sloppy writing of Kishimoto's once again: for, prior to meeting Tsunade, he characterized her as "one of the legendary sannin." With all due respect and a ton of hindsight bias, she doesn't even compare to Jiraiya or to Orochimaru. Or at least for now she doesn't. I guarantee you that Kishimoto will bring her back soon enough and she'll be all "WHOOPAH!" Bruce Lee Enter the Dragon on Madara. And he'll say, "See? This is her legendary power!" This in spite of the fact that it was absent from every other crucial battle she's been a part of. I'm calling it now. He will do this. That, or he'll just kill her off once and for all, which then brings us back to Square One where we pointed out that Tsunade isn't deserving of the legendary sannin title. Either way, Kishimoto's a sloppy writer.

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Oro is also fairly consistent in being portrayed as the most dangerous/strongest of the three, although truth be told he appeared weaker than he should because his jutsu repertoire was simplified from "almost all the jutsu in the world" to snake-themed jutsu.
You've hit the nail on the head. In Season 2, Orochimaru is the big bad guy. Not just for the season, but for what looks to be the entire series (in the absence of the hindsight we would gain from later seasons). Here is a man who seeks to attain every jutsu in the world. Such a man could fairly said to be unstoppable or near-unstoppable. A very fearsome adversary. However, a ninja requires his hands to perform his jutsu, and so the Third takes Orochimaru's arms (though he aimed to take his life) and in so doing rids the world of Orochimaru's menace ... temporarily.

The problem here has already been addressed in my original post, so I would redirect you to it rather than repeat myself. See: Deidara's arms. This is once again an example of poor writing on Kishimoto's part. He makes it seem like Orochimaru has been severely set back with the loss of his arms -- he tells us Orochimaru will need to wait 2-3 years before he can once again attempt to conquer Konoha -- only to then show us a Deidara who retrieves his own arm in under a year and with little to no medical jutsu knowledge. Certainly "little to no" when we compare Deidara and his Akatsuki allies with Orochimaru! Who among them can rival Orochimaru and his disciple Kabuto in medical knowledge? Who can be said to know more than the man who aspires to learn every jutsu in the world?

Provide me a canonical answer, and I win: because it proves once again that Kishimoto is a poor writer who succumbs to Shonen Jump Syndrome. "Oh man, you thought Orochimaru was a bad-ass Dr. Frankenstein!? Well wait'll you see what THIS guy can do! " Some people may like this style of writing. I don't. Because it robs the past of any suspense or significance it may have once held. Yesterday's world-threatening villain becomes today's toilet paper. To me, that's shitty writing.

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The Sannin were famous as three Hokage-level Konoha ninja who left their village, something unusual because ninja typically don't leave their village under any circumstance and certainly not at that level of power.
Umm... this is true, but it's not the end of the story, either. They weren't famous simply for leaving their village and traveling the world. They were famous for settling international disputes, thwarting ninjas which sometimes an entire ninja village could not take down, etc. And they were repeatedly, repeatedly said to be "the strongest ninjas in the land." How this can be true, and yet at the same time they are all wastepaper compared with Pain, Madara, and the rest is ... *sigh*, is a frustrating example of Shonen Jump Syndrome. "Tune in next week for an even BIGGER badass!" ¬_¬
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:39 AM   #59
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The nine-tailed fox was supposed to be the threat to life as we know it, and now it's hardly a threat at all to multiple characters. (e.g. Sasuke)
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Never more true than in the recent chapters.

Kyuubi is no longer a force to be feared, but sympathized. In fact, I'm starting to think he's the real Naruto and the blond haired kid is just a split personality. His history is basically being mind controlled/enslaved by ninja or locked in a cage (i.e., jinchuuriki or pots/kettles).
Forgive me, but (a) this sounds like a pet theory of yours (though an interesting one), (b) it sounds like something no one could have predicted from way back when where I'm stationed right now in our discussion (i.e. circa Waterfall Fight), and (c) it doesn't strike me as a relevant rebuttal to what I said. Okay: so the Kyuubi may well be "the real Naruto." That's nice. But what ever happened to Season 1's "OMG, the nine-tailed demon fox is the most destructive and powerful force the world has ever known! It has the power to destroy the entire land! It can breathe down a mountain! It can boil away an entire lake! It is the demon fox! Run for your lives!!!" Come Season 5, we have this jackass group of rogue ninjas trying to capture the beasts for their own uses; and come Shippuuden Season 1 (late) or 2 (early), it becomes apparent that they not only aspire to use the beasts as tools, but that they can use them as tools. That is to say ...

1. Akatsuki do not fear the beasts. Respect, maybe. Fear, no.

2. Akatsuki have not once lost control over a beast. This despite the trouble we've been told Jinchuuriki have with them. Jinchuuriki who have lived with the beasts their entire lives, vs. Akatsuki members who have controlled the beasts for little under a week.

3. The Akatsuki themselves cannot "destroy the land," and they are much more powerful than the beasts. The beasts have displayed, in their ferocity, the ability to destroy local land forms at best. A lake. A forest. Not a continent. While they might destroy the land were they able to and allowed to rampage, Akatsuki have demonstrated that the land has numerous ninjas who can stop them.


I mean, what the fuck. Whatever happened to Naruto's dad's great sacrifice? Whatever happened to, "Man, these beasts are so strong that the only way to seal them off is to sacrifice my own life"? "And only then if I'm a really powerful ninja!"? "And even then it still may not work!"? Akatsuki has a flawless track record of sealing beasts. They capture them, they seal them, they stay sealed. What does this say of Naruto's dad, then? That he was a loser-ninja?

The problem, Doppel, is that Shonen Jump Syndrome forces a writer to piss all over his earlier chapters for the sake of playing up his newest ones. And Kishimoto has shamelessly pissed all over Seasons 1-5 in this regard.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:51 AM   #60
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Itachi's slaughter of the Uchiha clan was meant to be a horrible act and a devastating blow to Konoha's power, and now it's nothing more than a failed attempt to prevent Madara, Danzou, etc. from overthrowing the ruling body of the village.
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Not absolutely true even before the Uchiha were retooled as antagonists.
What you said about Kakashi and Killer Bee, fine. What you said about the Uchiha clan, I would be fine with but ...

Doppel, I'm not trying to argue with you. You're not even arguing with me, really. The person you're ironically arguing with is Kishimoto himself.

Because I didn't say "the Uchiha loss was devastating to Konoha." He did. Through Tsunade. Through other characters in Konoha. Their loss was a major blow to the village, and Kishimoto let us know this through characters declaring it to be so in Season 5.

I mean, I know it's just a Wikipedia page, but ffs, Doppel: first sentence of "Uchiha Clan" on Narutopedia says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narutopedia
The Uchiha clan (うちは一族, Uchiha Ichizoku; Literally meaning "Uchiha family") was once considered to be one of the most powerful clans in Konohagakure, but is now almost extinct after the events of the Uchiha Clan Massacre.
There. Clear as crystal. Unarguable. "Once considered to be one of the most powerful clans." So ... if you want to talk about the fact that they were the village police force during a time of relative peace, be my guest. You're absolutely right to do so. But I'm not the one making the counter-claim that this peaceful police force family were the village's ace. Kishimoto is.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:07 PM   #61
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But in all fairness, the show has never been perfect. Season 1 (imo) was very boring, and also very unrealistic. Two A-level ninjas vs. one A-level and three rookies on their first mission? And somehow the rookies come out on top?
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Eh, I wouldn't have called Haku a Jounin given the Chuunin Exam's standard for Jounin strength. He had the power, but lacked the experience, which did him in.
I can't find any source which confirms Haku's rank. But let's address what you stated and what we know to be fact:

"He had the power, but lacked the experience." Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Particularly when you then go on to tell me, "Now, the Chuunin Shiken kids, on the other hand ... they had the experience." WTF, man!? Haku was raised by Zabuza from ~age 5 to age 15. Ten years of intense training with a former ANBU-level ninja. And you're telling me he "didn't have the experience" compared with rookies who hadn't been ninjas for more than one calendar year come the Chuunin Shiken!?!?!?!?!? Doppel, Doppel, Doppel! Please! Be reasonable. Haku had ten times the experience -- quite literally! -- that Naruto had.

Second, the Chuunin Shiken is precisely that: an exam (shiken) for promoting ninjas to the middle rank (chuunin). It was not used to determine jounin-level status, as you suggest. This is erroneous. It was an exam used to assess chuunin level proficiency. So: am I to believe that you are inferring that Haku was not up to the task? That he would have failed the Chuunin Shiken? That this 10-years-in-training gifted boy was inferior to Neji? (Mind you, Neji was good, and deserved to become a chuunin: but to say he could best Haku one-on-one?)

The problem is, we know Neji could have done it -- because Naruto and Sasuke did it. There lies the rub: two little grunts, age 10, took out a 15-year old who had been in training just as long as one of them (li'l Sasuke) and much much longer than the other one of them (Naruto). We can argue all we like with hindsight bias as to why the outcome of their battle was probable, but taken from a Season-1-only perspective, it's laughable that two little ten year olds on their very first mission were able to take down a lethal killer.

Last edited by Talon87; 06-25-2010 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:14 PM   #62
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Squirtle Momma don't raise no fool....unless it's Naruto

This is what happens when I see a post and then come back 4 hours later...geez Talon, he's not truly arguing with you...

I am however! >=D
And being well versed in the manga, I'm sure I'll win.

(The below is what I had to originally say about your first post today but was in class. I read all the above stuff you said, but honestly nothing was relevant, lol.)

Ah, I figured this one might come back sooner or later...
So here goes...\

Naruto Shippuuden was no failure in my books. Naruto as a whole has been everything but predictable.

You knew he would overcome the Fox at some point, and you could probably easily assume Sasuke would be his big enemy/rival down the road.

But for the most part, each character has been pulled in directions not foreseen.
Let's go tackle Talon's comments:

1) Sannin were never trash. Orochimaru was defeated cause he can't beat Sharingan, though not many people can beat Itachi + Susanoo + Soul Sealing Sword.
Jiraya lost to the bearer of the Rinnengan, quite possibly the most powerful character in the Narutoverse. Even then it was only because he found out too late about Pain's secret.
Tsunade never had a chance because by the time she began to fight Pain, she had basically just healed/protected every citizen of Konoha with her chakra. Yeah that's easy to do, I'm sure any Jounin could do it....

They each have done amazing things and if paired against different opponents, it is quite easy to see how they are no so weak. Especially Tsunade, who seems to be given heavy impairments going in to the two fights she was featured.

2) Ninetails (Kyuubi), whichever you prefer, is a beast. 9tails being controlled by the Sharingan is deeply rooted in the history of the manga. Naruto only overcomes him recently through the help of the 8tails and his mother, who was the former host of the 9tails + has a special chakra that helps restrain it.
Without this, 9tails would've broken out and caused havoc. Should also be mentioned that this battle took place within the confines of Naruto's mind, so that hampered him as well. He tanked two Rasenshirukens for goodness sake, and still was fighting like it was nothing!

3) I don't think you've read the Manga. Madara/Danzou wanted the Uchiha dead. Itachi performed the act to cleanse his clan of their evil heritage. He would rather take their lives and support Konoha, instead of helping them destroy the country he loved. Too bad he couldn't pull the trigger on his younger brother.

4) Death being forever was never true the moment Orochimaru came around. However, if you're sealed in the belly of the Death God, well in this case they haven't come back. Justu has always been able to bring people back from the dead, but they become Forbidden Justu and tend to be stored away as to avoid further use.
The only exception to this rule was when not all of you has been sealed. That's why Minato /Kushina/Oro showed up after encounters with the Death God.

5) Did another point to address the limbs, etc. Orochimaru's arms were sealed in the Death God. The limbs still would not work if you chopped them off and replaced new ones. Hence why he had to jump bodies, specifically to ones with greater chakra that could handle him and his curse. The curse won't ever go away for good on him, which continually impaired any chance he had of becoming the strongest ninja, etc.

6) Limb replacement has been more of a theme lately for the Akatsuki.
Most of this seems to stem from Zetsu only. Seen not only with Deidara's arm, but also Madara's arm. Madara is another issue in his own right, so we'll leave that there. Orochimaru would never get these limbs because he left the Akatsuki and was a traitor to them as well.

7) Last point, but fairly important. We knew from the start that the characters were Genin. There were clear differences between them and a Jounin. That being said, the Chunnin exams would obviously contain many people capable of being Chunnin level...that's kind of the point.

Gaara and Naruto are not the Bijuu themselves, so skill and physicality wise, they are mostly the same as other Genin.
That being said, Naruto's seal was tampered with, while Gaara walked away unharmed (probably had bruises, that's about it) from his match even after a Gate opening Lee.

Naruto couldn't utilize 9tails effectively, which has been a big point throughout the series.
Iruka is a teacher. I highly doubt he practices every day, and if you don't practice the basics it becomes hard to be competitive. His strength is knowledge and compassion. It was never stated that Iruka was worth fighting.



So there you have it, straight from the manga.
These are the facts, and they are indisputable. :x
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:50 PM   #63
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Uh. Yeah. You've sort of just proved my point about how ridiculous and Shonen Jump Syndrome-ey the manga is. Thanks.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:04 PM   #64
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I proved how outrageous a comic book is?

I mean, it is a comic....shounen of course, but still just drawings of actions at heart.
People try too hard to destroy something instead of enjoying what it is.
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Old 06-26-2010, 01:11 AM   #65
big bad birtha
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I dislike Naruto, so I felt it wasn't my place to say anything, but I might as well throw in my two cents.

Being able to actually like Naruto throughout the whole thing means you either ignore the obviously flawed story and just enjoy it for the pretty fighting and competitive spirit between little boys, or you somehow like everything that doesn't make sense. When I read it, I actually liked it. I didn't care about how stupidly powerful everyone was getting even though it didn't make sense, because I read it for the delicious little boy spirit! I read it for the fighting as well. I also saw the stupidly high power inflation coming, since it's a SJ trademark.

What made me dislike Naruto has nothing to do with the discussion, but I'll throw it in there anyway. Naruto killed my image of a ninja. My impression went from a stealthy assassin badass to a colorful magical little boy. The Narutards ruined it for me as well.
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:26 PM   #66
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Squirtle

Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
What made me dislike Naruto has nothing to do with the discussion, but I'll throw it in there anyway. Naruto killed my image of a ninja. My impression went from a stealthy assassin badass to a colorful magical little boy. The Narutards ruined it for me as well.

I can completely understand the image of a ninja being shattered.

There is not too many similarities:

1) Naruto and RL Ninjas had villages that were dedicated the being ninjas.
2) They use Shuriken and Kunai.

That's about it.
But it is a Shounen Manga. They would have to go a darker route then they do to be a true ninja Manga. Not to mention Kishimoto is heavily influenced from Toriyama's work.


I think one should like Naruto for the spirit of the Manga.
It's not exactly "little boy spirit", as more of the belief that you can endure the struggle and come out on top.
I could go more in to detail, but I'll keep it brief, lol.

I hate how everyone needs to somehow transpose their Manga into a RL scenario. They try to think of the technical facts and dissect everything the author says or does. No offense, but the Manga is not a manual for a complex machine.
The characters are deep and they each have their own motivation and convictions. The story has gone in many directions not foreseen. What exactly are you looking for that this doesn't have?
Manga and the characters in them are not perfect. But when was the last time something you know has been perfect?
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:39 PM   #67
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You must not care for your fellow human beings much, given your sentiments towards the never-ending quest for perfection. To live is to be imperfect, but to live is also to seek perfection. To cheat death. To cheat ignorance. To cheat crime. We humans live in search of a perfect world, knowing we can never have it but all the while striving to obtain it. And that is what makes us noble creatures.

To criticize a work of art for its imperfections is no crime. It is human.

And Naruto, I am afraid, has more than its fair share of imperfections.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:30 PM   #68
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This post was supposed to be my response to ^^^. Although truthfully, I've all but lost the nerve. Even while not trying to defend the manga but make debateable points, I feel like I am cloaked in ash, a sense of filth I feel weighing on my soul.

stlbk, I cannot see how you can defend this manga any longer, given the utter horror that was unleashed this week. I mean it felt like I swallowed a stone when I got to the second line of text - pure, primal terror.

Shock.

Disbelief can't even convey how stupefied I was. It is everyone's worst nightmare made real, and it wriggles in its unholy caul like some monstrosity from another world.

I can't read this manga anymore, even out of morbid curiosity. I feel with each new chapter, thin layers of my masculinity crumple to the floor like an exoskeleton shed from an arthropod. I will literally lose myself if I get pulled down any further into this insanity.

Talon, should you be a cat wishing to be burtally murdered by curiosity -

Spoiler: show
1. Naruto is a member of the Senju Clan. His great aunt was a cousin and wife of the First Hokage, and was the first Nine-Tails Jinchuuriki. She became the Jinchuuriki after Harashima Senju defeated Madara in battle and claimed the Kyuubi as his prize.
2. Naruto's mother Kushina was the second Nine-Tails Jinchuuriki, and apparently Madara has been watching Konoha since her childhood waiting for the day she'd get pregnant, because her elemental seal weakens during childbirth.
3. Naruto was born in a cave. Just as he's born, he's snatched out of his father's hands by Madara, who threatens to kill Naruto if Minato doesn't release the Kyuubi.


One of the few things I liked about Harry Potter 7 was how non-cheesy his relationship to Voldemort was. Many people feared Harry would have Slytherin or Griffindor blood in him, basically making Harry and Voldemort pawns of their ancestor's feuds and not individual characters in their own right. Rowling might be damned for other failures, disappointments and inadequacies in her writing but at least she had the sense to address that problem tastefully.

This is just....putrid.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:27 PM   #69
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Not surprised. Naruto was an accident. The proof is in the pudding: Kishimoto's original plotline (absolute trash) and the majority of his canon plot developments as of the Sasuke Retrieval arc onward.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:29 PM   #70
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I've heard some interesting things about Naruto Shippuuden episode 167, so I decided to take a look, and it was a treat. The animation is terrible. During an attack, the character often dissolved or something else. Here's an example. I spent most of the episode laughing my ass off at how bad the animation quality is. If anyone has any free time, check it out. It's a real gut buster~

Despite the ugly animation, the beautiful ending song almost makes up for it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:46 PM   #71
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XD!

Okay, this animator needs to be fired!
This is the same pathetic person/team/not sure how many, that have ruined several episodes all the way through the Naruto series.

One of the biggest examples was during the Sasuke vs Naruto fight at the Valley of the End. I know they elaborated on the fight to make it last longer, but there is one episode that the same animator just destroyed all hopes of a good fight.

His/her/their drawing style is nothing like any other artists that are on the team.
I have no idea why they decided to nuke the Pain vs Naruto fight, but this is one of the main reasons I generally just stick to the manga.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:30 PM   #72
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Bringing this back from the dead.

I've caught up on the Naruto manga and have been reading the new chapter each week, and I just have to say, the one that came out today was really, really moving. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I actually cried at how touching it was.

Spoiler: show


Opinion:
Spoiler: show
What a perfect ending to Itachi's story. Perfect closure. That alone made up for a lot of shitty writing lately. This chapter really revealed that Itachi was a much more tragic character than previously let on. His entire life has essentially been nothing but a hardship, murdering his own family when he didn't want to, but did it because if he didn't, someone else was going to kill them anyway, and Sasuke with them. So he did it all to save Sasuke. He tried to get Sasuke to hate him instead of the leaf village because he wanted to protect his home, but even now Sasuke wants revenge for Itachi because he knows the truth... even though Itachi told him he didn't want him to take revenge.


This one hit hard too.

Spoiler: show


Anyway, I just felt the need to share it.

Fucking Naruto actually made me cry. Either I'm getting weaker and more sensitive or that was genuinely moving.
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Last edited by deoxys; 06-20-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:30 PM   #73
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AK2's been enthusiastically following the Naruto manga. He put it on hold about a week or two ago in order that he might enjoy reading twelve or so chapters in a row, but he's corresponded with me via telephone for a while now and I'm well aware of what's going on right now (including your first spoiler box image ... which I could have sworn he already described to me. Are you sure you're all caught up? ^^; ). I'll recommend he check this thread out if he ends up abandoning his twelve-week fast.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:10 PM   #74
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Yeah man, this chapter just came out this morning, I just double checked all the release dates across various manga sites to be sure...
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:03 AM   #75
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So I just got around to reading the newest chapter.

I might have been the only one to have read it, but does anyone else feel like that was incredibly terrible writing and jumping the shark way more than it needed to or is it just me?

"Plot no jutsu!"

...Seriously, what the fuck, Kishimoto...
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