Major Pokemon Announcement Next Sunday

[ZoraJolteon]

You are so much fail condensed into a single poster I think you should be rewarded with a username composed entirely of capital letters.

[Vran]

[insert image macro of trucker pointing at and laughing at a doctor reading the Wall Street Journal, doing so from the middle of the street and about to be mowed down by an oncoming semi-truck driven, naturally, by none other than a fellow trucker]

The caption should read "LAWL, YOU PHAIL SO HARD! I IZ BETTER THAN--"

And it should be Figure 1 under the Oxford List of Not-So-Famous Persons listing for "ZoraJolteon."

[ZoraJolteon]

Then suddenly the truck transforms into Optimus Prime, and he declares heroically

"FREEDOM IS THE RIGHT OF ALL SENTIENT BEINGS. EXCEPT VRAN, FOR BEING SO WRONG."

[Jerichi]

In terms of design...

• Treecko (leaf tail, general sleek design, though close)
• Cyndaquil (Flaming quill back = awesome)
• Totodile (good shapes, colors, like the lines)
  RSE: 1 Johto: 2
  
• Ho-oh (Gigantic phoenix, also cool colors and connection to mythology)
• Kyogre (Only by like an inch. Never was a big fan of Lugia but I do like the flippers on Kyogre)
• Jirachi (<3 Sorry, Celebi. The wish-hat, eye thing and flowy side things are too cool to pass up.)
  RSE: 3 Johto: 3
  
• T-Tar (Close (neither are particularly high on my list), though if this were pre-evos Salamance line would win by a bit more)
• Metagross (Not really a fair match-up. :x)
• Can't really say on the Trios as I like them equally for different reasons. If I had to chose, I'd be inclined to go for Regis, but even then...
  RSE: 4 Johto: 4
  
• Slowking (Another tough one, but I really prefer Slowking's design as I love little props and whatnot, and I've always loved his crown and fringe.)
• Dunsparce is not Flying. Void. If I had to pick, Ninjask.
• Stantler is not Psychic. Void. If I had to pick, Stantler.
  RSE: 4 Johto: 5
  
• Amphy (I kinda like Cradily, but I think the theme Amphy has going for it is more appealing. Also, the colors work better together)
• Togetic (Simple, fun. I've never been a fan of Milotic.)
• Huntail (Though I prefer Sunflora, Huntail has a bit more of a design appeal as Sunflora is a bit bland).
  RSE: 5 Johto: 6

In all honesty, I probably prefer RSE overall, but in a lot of these match-ups, I prefer GSC. Maybe that's just my sense of nostalgia talking, but I think that Johto's 'mon are truly unique and shouldn't be thrown to the wayside because they're simpler than the newer ones.

>the generation that gave us the Unown >_>

I liked the idea of Unown. It was fun to collect them and translate the text.

>the generation that gave us Smeargle. Useful but ugly back in the day. Nowadays he's not quite so useful (despite what his cult-like followers might insist) and he's still one of the ugliest humanshape Pokemon ever designed.

However, he's the best breeder in the game. You can't deny that as useful.

>How many worthless side-evolutions did GSC waste our precious Pokedex entries on? We only received 100 new slots total with this generation, and yet precious positions were wasted on Slowking and Politoed with the King's Rock. Bah.

I like, and in fact, prefer Slowking and Politoed over their alt. evos.

>Delibird?

I like Santabird. D<

>Need I go on? Oh, fine -- Gligar, Dunsparce, Shuckle, Yanma -- how many worthless monsters did we get with zero evolutions and zero coolness or cuteness to them?

Gligar and Yanma both got evos, and pretty cool ones at that. Anyways, I like Yanma.

># Torchic and Mudkip, two of the franchise's most beloved starters
# Blaziken and Swampert, two of the franchise's most beloved final evolutions for starters

Show me some proof of this and I'll consider your argument.

>Or picture how cute Surskit and how intriguing Masquerain look. And compare them now with Ledyba and Ledian. -_-;

I thought the boxing ladybug thing was sorta cool (though I liked Masquerain/Surskit just as much).

> Remember Corphish and Crawdaunt? You may think they're sort of ugly and sort of useless, but how do they compare against Remoraid and Octillery in the looks department, hmm?

Personally, I thought the Pistol Fish/Octopus Canon visual pun was creative. Crawdaunt/Corpish seem sort of overkill/way too "IRL copycat" to me.

>I mean ... it's no contest. lol

I generally would support an RSE-supporter in this type of thing but I really did like Jotho design-wise and think that it deserves a chance. It's often thrown to the wayside because it's not as flashy, but I think something can be said for its simple, down-to-earth monsters and its unique ideas that we haven't seen replicated since. Most Pokemon of later generations are so highly stylized that they seem to lose their sense of what they were, and some of the RBY Pokemon are so literal, they don't seem much like Pokemon. I think GSC captured a good blend of the two, exaggerating in some ways while still keeping a good sense of what the Pokemon was supposed to be.

[Lady Kuno]

Originally Posted by Vran

How about RSE? What is it memorable for in creature design?

• the steel spider, Metagross. Frightful. Awesome.
• the sand-dragon, Flygon
• Torchic and Mudkip, two of the franchise's most beloved starters
• Blaziken and Swampert, two of the franchise's most beloved final evolutions for starters
• designs that took full advantage of the GBA's broader color pallet to that of the GameBoy Color's. Pokemon like Beautifly, Swalot, and Huntail really exemplify this with their exquisite designs. Sometimes the results were a little ugly, like Dustox, but sometimes they were things of absolute wonder, like Milotic.
• a giant, ferocious dinosaur of fire and earth who is twice your size and prepared to eat you
• an eerie but powerful whale of water and wind, over twice as long as you are tall and large enough to pick between swallowing you whole or washing you out to sea

Never cared for Metagross. I thought he was kind of dumb looking. Flygon is meh. Blaziken and Swampert are fugly. Especially Swampert. Look at him, ew. Beautifly is just an uglier Butterfree, and Huntail looks really dumb. And the 2 legends were meh. The birds were cooler.

Originally Posted by Vran

When you compare the failmons of RSE to those of GSC, even then RSE is much more beautiful!

• Consider how amazing Absol looks. And now compare it with a single-stage Dark-type in GSC like Sneasel. :\
• Or picture how cute Surskit and how intriguing Masquerain look. And compare them now with Ledyba and Ledian. -_-;
• Remember Corphish and Crawdaunt? You may think they're sort of ugly and sort of useless, but how do they compare against Remoraid and Octillery in the looks department, hmm?

Absol? That thing looks like a gimp Houndoom. Never cared for those bugs, they are kind of useless. And I liked Ledian, shes cute. Those two crabs are just ghetto Krabby, who does the water crab just fine. Octillery is badass.

[Vran]

In the words of Major Kira Nerys, "You're insane!" >_<

[ZoraJolteon]

"Nothing justifies genocide"
"But Vran was being really wrong."
"Oh, carry on then."

[Vran]

For it to be genocide, you'd need to qualify as human in the first place. :P I'm afraid sleepy, grouchy kitties like myself don't count. Nor do your kind. :P

[Blastoise]

I am extremely tempted to give some of you more...appropriate user titles. You know who you are.

Gardevoir, Ninjask, Claydol, Cradily, Milotic, Huntail. Straight sweep for Gen 3. GSC 2, RSE 12.

That's some great shit you must be smoking there.

the generation that gave us Smeargle. Useful but ugly back in the day. Nowadays he's not quite so useful (despite what his cult-like followers might insist)

Smeargle sucks and that's why he's on like half of all doubles teams.

Stantler?

Get off my forum before I murder you.

How about RSE? What is it memorable for in creature design?
the steel spider, Metagross. Frightful. Awesome.

THIS JUST IN

BST 600 CLUB UBER MON HAVE GOOD DESIGNS

FILM AT 11

Torchic and Mudkip, two of the franchise's most beloved starters
Blaziken and Swampert, two of the franchise's most beloved final evolutions for starters

Strange, I don't see any of the RBY starters or Totodile listed.

designs that took full advantage of the GBA's broader color pallet to that of the GameBoy Color's. Pokemon like Beautifly, Swalot, and Huntail really exemplify this with their exquisite designs.

So, how far away could I be and still be able to smell the stink of weed on you? 50 yards?

That's about as much of your reverse-nostalgia goggles and cognitive dissonance that I can take for the moment. I mean, how the fuck do you complain about "worthless side evolutions" in G/S/C and defend--of all fucking things--HUNTAIL and still manage to keep a straight face? How do you mock G/S/C for its collection of worthless-as-shit single evos and still defend a generation that had way more than its fair share of them (Spinda/Kecleon/Castform/Luvdisc)?

[Muyotwo]

Originally Posted by Vran

Here's my list of who wins the match-ups listed above.

• Chikorita, Torchic, Mudkip. GSC 1, RSE 2.
• Groudon, Kyogre/Latios, Jirachi. GSC 1, RSE 5.
• Tyranitar's not really a dragon, but he looks like the DragonZord. Win. Metagross kicks Houndoom's ass. GSC 2, RSE 6.
• Gardevoir, Ninjask, Claydol, Cradily, Milotic, Huntail. Straight sweep for Gen 3. GSC 2, RSE 12.
• Jumpluff. O_O GSC 5, RSE 12.

Even with the hefty +3 points from Jumpluff's adorableness, GSC falls flat on its face compared with RSE in terms of creature design.

Whoa.
Chikorita, Cyndaquil, Mudkip: 2, 1 GSC. At least you gave it to Chikorita, unlike Jeri. wtf Jeri.
Ho-Oh is much cooler looking than Groudon, though Groudon is decent looking. Kyogre is buttugly, but usable, while Lugia is awesome looking and usable. Jirachi over Celebi ten times out of ten. 4-2 GSC.
Tyranitar is metabreaking and coo', and should be your comparison with Metagross, not Salamence, I'd give it to t-tar over 'gross. 5-2 GSC
Legendary dogs are superior to legendary braille. 8-2 GSC.
You seriously cherry pick your comparisons in the "Random 'mon with nothing to do with eachother" category that comes next. How about picking some actual comparable GSC pokes? Allow me to suggest better comparisons, as I cruise on through.
Swap Slowking for Espeon, pure psychic comparison. I'd give it to 'voir over Slowking, but Espeon over Garde.
I have no idea why you picked Dunsparce for your comparison. Just wanted to find a place to put the worst 'mon of the gen? How about comparing Dunsparce to the also ugly, useless, and hard to find Nosepass? On further thought, I can see why you'd want to give Ninjask a bye, to avoid a matchup with Heracross, GSC's premier bug. Dunsparce over Nosepass, Heracross over Ninjask.
Claydol is thoroughly unattractive, and though it's fairly unusable, Stantler is much cooler. A better comparison would be Claydol/Quagsire or Claydol/Steelix.
Root fossil = Electric sheep? Ok. Ampharos is infinitely better than Cradily. Better comparison would be a straight bug/rock brawl, Shuckle and Armaldo. I'd give that one to Armaldo at least.
Togetic and Milotic? The iconic Marill would be a better comparison, but I'd give it to the GSCer in either case.
Huntail vs. Sunflora. They're both terrible. Sunflora looks much less full of DERP though.

Originally Posted by Vran

[*]Torchic and Mudkip, two of the franchise's most beloved starters[*]Blaziken and Swampert, two of the franchise's most beloved final evolutions for starters

When you compare the failmons of RSE to those of GSC, even then RSE is much more beautiful!

• Consider how amazing Absol looks. And now compare it with a single-stage Dark-type in GSC like Sneasel. :\
• Or picture how cute Surskit and how intriguing Masquerain look. And compare them now with Ledyba and Ledian. -_-;
• Remember Corphish and Crawdaunt? You may think they're sort of ugly and sort of useless, but how do they compare against Remoraid and Octillery in the looks department, hmm?

I mean ... it's no contest. lol

Mudkip is a meme, so its popularity is hard to quantify away from that. Torchic... isn't that popular. Certainly nowhere near the level of the breakthrough starter of GSC, Chikorita. Blaziken is beloved? Blaziken was popular for that brief time before Colo came out. Then Tyranitar invented sandstream, and it was never heard from again, eventually being surpassed as an ugly but good for competitive battling fire starter by Infernape. Infernape looks like it was made just to render Blaziken irrelevant. You're not giving Sneasel enough credit, though I do prefer Absol. Surskit line is one of the more laughable lines you could throw out there in your praise of Ru/Sa, they're useless and Masquerain is ugly, at least Ledian looks cool while being useless. Crawdaunt is one of the ugliest pokemon ever made, Octillery is better, though I'd swap it around in the prevos.

And let us not forget Ru/Sa brought us such great 'mon like... Barboach. And Electrike. Gulpin and Swalot. Numel and Camerupt. Baltoy and Claydol. I don't need to go on. RBY is the best gen ever, but GSC is a lot closer to it than Ru/Sa could ever dream of.

[Vran]

Originally Posted by Blastoise

I am extremely tempted to give some of you more...appropriate user titles. You know who you are.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." A lesson from elementary school which, not surprisingly, is lost on the 4chan generation. You'll have to do better than to bully me if you want to "beat" me.

But I don't even see why this has to be about beating anybody at all. You lot badmouthed RSE first, so I figured that was an invitation to badmouth GSC. "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I've got a million of these, but they all boil down to the same basic message: it's not about playing nice -- it's about playing fair. Go right ahead and punch me in the gut. In fact, you already did it! That's why I felt it'd only be fair to punch back. But now you want to cry foul? Bad form! Bad form indeed.

Originally Posted by Blastoise

Smeargle sucks and that's why it's on half of doubles teams.

Your sarcasm is my reality: if a Pokémon can only find use on doubles teams, that hardly qualifies it as being useful from a battle POV. But way to conjure up a straw man out of thin air! Let's take a fairer look at what I said, shall we?

Smeargle. Useful but ugly back in the day. Nowadays he's not quite so useful (despite what his cult-like followers might insist) and he's still one of the ugliest humanshape Pokemon ever designed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proper English reading would suggest that I, Vran, seem to believe that Smeargle was useful but ugly in 2000 and is still useful, but nowhere near as useful as he once was, in modern times; that I seem to believe that he has devoted followers who insist that Smeargle is as amazing as he was in 2000, Sporing this and Horn Drilling that left and right and leading teams to 6-0 victories; that I believe those followers are delusional; and that, regardless of his utility, Smeargle remains buttface ugly.

How you take a criticism of his looks and transform it into my being uninformed about the DPP metagame I have no idea ... or so I'd like to say. Unfortunately, you and I both know that you're guilty of the most embarrassing gaffe in a debate.

[Muyotwo]

Just for the record, I use Smeagle on my competitive team, and he rocks the house.

[Vran]

Originally Posted by Muyotwo

Just for the record, I use Smeagle on my competitive team, and he rocks the house.

Nothing Mt. Doom can't fix.

[Muyotwo]

S'what I call him, because he shows you the way... to victory ;o

[Treepandaone]

Originally Posted by Vran

Smeargle is as amazing as he was in 2000, Sporing this and Horn Drilling that left and right and leading teams to 6-0 victories;

With complete disregard for standard rules ;P

[iAmDewgong]

Vran, as charty as your chart is, c'mon. Some of your pairs are REALLY strange. Metagross - Houndoom WTF?

[Jerichi]

>Spinda/Kecleon/

HEY!

>Your sarcasm is my reality: if a Pokémon can only find use on doubles teams, that hardly qualifies it as being useful from a battle POV. But way to conjure up a straw man out of thin air! Let's take a fairer look at what I said, shall we?

There's a very good reason why Smeargle is listed as OU on Smogon. With access to moves like Spore, it's a pretty deadly support 'mon when played right.

[deoxys]

. . . This was kinda taken a little too far, huh? No one was really bashing the RSE Pokémon at first... I know I said something along the lines of most being okay. However both GS and RS clearly have their goods and bads. Every gen does. Basically, my main point personally is that Gen 3 was pretty much a let down Pokegame, since the region sucked and it didn't carry on GS's torch with some of GS's newer and important features (multiregions, night/day, etc), and there was a rather poor plot line.

[Muyotwo]

Pfft, you already grabbed a torch and followed us to the monster's lair, don't back out now. DEATH TO RU/SA!

[ZoraJolteon]

BUT DEATH TO DP BEFOREHAND!

[Treepandaone]

AND MAYBE TO HEY YOU PIKACHU IF WE FIND TIME ON THE WAY!

[ZoraJolteon]

BUT HE GOT ANGRY WHEN YOU SAID "PLAYSTATION". THAT'S COMEDY GENIUS RIGHT THERE.

[Treepandaone]

I BET HE WOULDN'T CARE IF YOU SAID XBOX TO HIM. NOW LOOK AT THEM.

[Vran]

Originally Posted by ZoraJolteon

BUT DEATH TO DP BEFOREHAND!

Funny, I think DPP is the spiritual successor to GSC, whereas RSE was the very same to RBY. And here you are: calling for DPP's head!

Funnier still: which generation brought us Mamoswine? No matter, I suppose. "Death to DP!" he says, and death to DP he shall have. ;)

[Blastoise]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." A lesson from elementary school which, not surprisingly, is lost on the 4chan generation. You'll have to do better than to bully me if you want to "beat" me.

Man, look at you not getting all offended by words on the Internet. You are so tough!

Originally Posted by Vran

But I don't even see why this has to be about beating anybody at all. You lot badmouthed RSE first, so I figured that was an invitation to badmouth GSC. "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I've got a million of these, but they all boil down to the same basic message: it's not about playing nice -- it's about playing fair. Go right ahead and punch me in the gut. In fact, you already did it! That's why I felt it'd only be fair to punch back. But now you want to cry foul? Bad form! Bad form indeed.

HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED ON A POKEMON MESSAGE BOARD

I have no dog in the fight about what gen's Pokemon are better than what other gen's: each has their hits and misses, and cherry-picking examples like you did doesn't really accomplish anything. And while I do appreciate what R/S/E brought to the series in terms of mechanics, it ultimately couldn't disguise the fact that Hoenn was a really shitty region: half the game is water routes, you can't walk five steps out of a town without needing an HM slave, and the criminal team(s) are fucking lame. It also began the annoying trend of version-exclusive legendaries, so eh.

Your sarcasm is my reality: if a Pokémon can only find use on doubles teams, that hardly qualifies it as being useful from a battle POV.

...yeah, okay.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proper English reading would suggest that I, Vran, seem to believe that Smeargle was useful but ugly in 2000 and is still useful, but nowhere near as useful as he once was, in modern times; that I seem to believe that he has devoted followers who insist that Smeargle is as amazing as he was in 2000, Sporing this and Horn Drilling that left and right and leading teams to 6-0 victories; that I believe those followers are delusional;

Smeargle's still pretty good for Baton Pass teams, since he's one of the few (only?) Pokemon that can pass Ingrain. Sure, there's the Spore/Lock On/Sheer Cold cheese, but that's hardly the only thing he can bring to the table.

and that, regardless of his utility, Smeargle remains buttface ugly.

Can't disagree with this.

Unfortunately, you and I both know that you're guilty of the most embarrassing gaffe in a debate.

u mad