American Politics

[Shuckle]

Ahahaha that is hilarious.

I don't think they should have apologized. It was nothing more than a clever little joke.

[Concept]

Also this seems like one of those cultural things we don't always realise divide the UK and the US. Many Americans apparently find making light of the time the White House got burnt down to be in bad taste, but over here we have a party every year celebrating the time this guy tried to blow up our central government buildings, and crack jokes about him being the last person to go in there with honest intentions.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Concept

Also this seems like one of those cultural things we don't always realise divide the UK and the US. Many Americans apparently find making light of the time the White House got burnt down to be in bad taste, but over here we have a party every year celebrating the time this guy tried to blow up our central government buildings, and crack jokes about him being the last person to go in there with honest intentions.

Guy Fawkes effigies weren't created as a light-hearted way of ribbing Parliament though. On the contrary, while the effigies give the common folk an excuse to go pyro for one night, they were clearly permitted by the aristocracy for reinforcing pro-Parliament, pro-Crown sentiment. To use the White House analogy to its fullest here, English citizens in the 21st century burning Guy Fawkes effigies and English citizens in the 21st century burning White House miniatures are on the very same team. To be on the American team with the Fawkes situation, one would have to be a militant anarchist who believes that the sheeple are being brainwashed in British schools to believe that Guy Fawkes was a terrorist and not a hero. Like, you'd have to be patently pro-Fawkes, anti-Parliament.

That stated, I think your media cares about this a whole heck of a lot more than our populace does. ^^; Some context:

• the War of 1812 is one of the least well understood, least talked about wars in America
  • "the White House got torched"
  • "we actually fought with Canada O_o"
  That's about the extent to which most non-historians remember the details of the war.
• In most Americans' minds, the War of Independence / the Revolutionary War was a decisive American victory.

Few alive today care or even know much about the War of 1812. It lacks the symbolism of a genesis war that the Revolutionary War has. It lacks the symbolism of a civil war that the aptly-named Civil War has. It lacks the symbolism of a great / grandiose war that WW1 and WW2 have. And it lacks the relevance to modern people's lives that the Korean, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq wars have. (Aside: why is "Korean" the only adjective in that string of war titles? ¬_¬ Why do we not say "the Vietnamese War" nor "the Korea War"? Weird.) I could not honestly tell you when or how the war ended without looking it up. In my defense, the last time I had to study about the war was nearly thirteen years ago. (Somewhere in the first half of the 2001-2002 school year.) I don't know how much of a defense that is though. "It's okay that I'm ignorant! It bears little relevance to my life today and no one's forced me to remember it!" I imagine that this is the case for most of my academic peers. And that the case is far worse for those less intelligent or less well educated.

[Shuckle]

War of 1812, if I am remembering my history right, resulted in "let's just pretend this never happened" - territories were given back, everything was rebuilt, and allegiances/ties were re-established.

So it's not surprising that nobody remembers it. That was the plan from the get go.

[Doppleganger]

Americans in general doesn't take well to anything perceived as irreverence toward the austere aspects of the culture. I know the British are more inclined to make fun of themselves or their own culture than the US, which is wholly intolerant to it. Flag burning in particular - which I would surmise, given how the flag isn't a holy object to most countries - should strike members of those other countries as odd in itself, and the reaction provoke from it even odder.

I was reading a quote from Alan Moore and he basically insinuated Americans are too chicken to set any kind of satire in the United States itself, and would prefer to use "other empires" like Britain or Rome for fear of inviting backlash.

[Shuckle]

Well in this case, we're not talking Americans. We're talking the kinds of Americans who a.) go on Twitter and b.) feel strongly enough to complain about things.

That joke was not in poor taste. It was simple, small, and harmless. The kind of person who complains about that also complains that the power scooters at Wal-Mart don't go fast enough and demands one with a stronger motor. You can't read too much into complaints. The best way to treat a complaint about something "offensive" in America is either to respond with an apology (if it is offensive) or to completely ignore it (if they're just being crazy).

And believe me. There can be some real crazy on twitter.

[Stealthy]

Stealthy's Quick And Easy Rule For US History in the 1800s: everything has to do with how we were fucking over the Natives or we were fucking over the blacks.

[Concept]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I was reading a quote from Alan Moore and he basically insinuated Americans are too chicken to set any kind of satire in the United States itself, and would prefer to use "other empires" like Britain or Rome for fear of inviting backlash.

I feel like all major world powers in history were like this when they can currently be described as such, it's not a US exclusive fault. China, Russia and the US are the current batch of "NO YOU MUST NOT CRITICISE US IN ANY WAY" supersensitive states. Britain has largely gotten over it (not entirely, sadly) because we haven't been a major world power in seventy years.

I mean this purely in a general, international perception level, not slamming each and every individual American/citizen of any other major world power.

[Shuckle]

Originally Posted by Concept

I mean this purely in a general, international perception level, not slamming each and every individual American/citizen of any other major world power.

NO YOU MUST NOT CRITICIZE US IN ANY WAY

[Mercutio]

AMERICA IS A TERRIBLE COUNTRY YOU'RE ALL DICKS

[Shuckle]

WELL AT LEAST WE SPELL OUR WORDS CORRECTLY

[SoS]

That's just adorable.

[Stealthy]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

AMERICA IS A TERRIBLE COUNTRY YOU'RE ALL DICKS

HEY REMEMBER WHEN YOU GUYS WERE A SUPERPOWER

[Mercutio]

That is amazing. If a little racist.

[Doppleganger]

Britain was pretty smart staying away from that bus stop. Voltorb gonna boom.

[Shuckle]

That's Polan. Polan stronk. Polan can into space.

For some reason the Poland ball is always upside down.

[deh74]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

That is amazing. If a little racist.

This is an accurate description of most Polandballs, as was this particular comic, actually.

Also, this was glorious.
"Tell me Ireland...don't you miss the good old days?"
"No."

I should say though, that if Russia gets to be a major global power than the big 4 of western Europe are all major global powers too.

[Stealthy]

Originally Posted by deh74

This is an accurate description of most Polandballs, as was this particular comic, actually.

Also, this was glorious.
"Tell me Ireland...don't you miss the good old days?"
"No."

I should say though, that if Russia gets to be a major global power than the big 4 of western Europe are all major global powers too.

...Four?

[Mercutio]

Well it depends on how you count but I suppose Britian, France, Germany and Italy are the big four in the geo political sense?

[deh74]

Yeah those four, since in most areas they surpass Russia. But I'm nitpicking and being bad, so I should stop...

[Talon87]

Italy surpassing Russia as a superpower, what a joke ...

[deh74]

But, but...Italy has pasta!

So I'm not sure if we've discussed this here yet but what do we think of the possibility of air strikes in Syria?

[Slash]

Oh man I loved that comic

[Mercutio]

In geopolitical terms Italy is more relevant than Russia in some areas, mostly where it used to be the colonial power, but its sphere of influence is not huge comparatively.

Air strikes in Syria seem likely to me. The yanks are the clear likely culprits, I don't think we'll get involved. I don't really know the French political consensus on the issue but they may look for a distracting war.

[Talon87]

Oh boy. So, I hadn't heard about the August 5 shooting of a 22-year old Ohioan in Wal-Mart until someone was blogging about this video which shows the Wal-Mart's surveillance camera footage. Apparently a grand jury was convened; and they just issued their verdict that the police were well within their rights to behave as they did, as reported by this Cincinnati news station.

The family claims that the victim had his back turned to the police when he was killed, that he was given no adequate warnings (or time to respond to said warnings), and that the victim was murdered. The defense for the police claims that the officers gave adequate warning, that the victim was charging the officers (not when initially fired upon, but between then and the second time they fire at him), and that he was brandishing a rifle when charging them.

Watch the video and draw your own conclusions. Me personally, I don't know what sort of person the victim was, but at least as far as the surveillance footage is concerned ...

• I can understand why customers would be concerned if any man were brandishing a firearm, regardless of race or station in life. I would be unnerved by someone openly carrying a firearm in Wal-Mart as well.
• Yet the state of Ohio allows open carry permits for firearms.
• And since the surveillance footage fails to show the victim waving the gun around (as has been alleged he did by a few eyewitnesses, including the 911 call), then it would seem that even were Crawford carrying a real gun he hadn't been doing anything illegal.
• If the time lapsing on the surveillance footage really is at 1x speed during the time he gets shot, then it doesn't look like there's more than one second between when the police round the corner and when they first open fire on him.
• It looks like he has his side to them (not his back, but not forward facing either) when the officers open fire the first time.
• It would appear, from the footage, that he wasn't even aware of their presence until they opened fire on him.
• His initial response appears to be flight; and then when he realizes he's cornered, he seems to decide to confront the officers.
• I can't tell from the video that he has drawn a rifle.

I can understand why the officers would be justified in the second phase of the shooting, particularly if the victim had a rifle drawn as he appeared to be charging towards them. But as for the first phase, I honestly don't see how this is anything short of murder. Guy was facing shelves, didn't seem to even notice the police presence, and within what appears to be only one second of their arrival, they open fire on him. It's hard to believe, unless the video has been tampered with, that they had an open dialogue with the guy and asked him to put down his weapon, that he refused to comply, and that they then opened fire on him.