04-08-2017, 12:01 AM | #3751 | |||
Snackin'
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Maybe there's something I'm missing there that you can explain to me though, in which case by all means go ahead because as far as I can see right now your argument is more than a bit hypocritical xp |
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04-08-2017, 12:27 AM | #3752 | |
時の彼方へ
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Location: Lafayette, Indiana
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http://www.cc.com/video-clips/cnuv8c...-west-virginia The video above takes us back to a time, 2008, when West Virginians rallied behind Senator Clinton 3:1 over her primary adversary Barack Obama. The reason they voted for Clinton? Not because she was Hillary Clinton -- but because she was not Barack Obama. The political players may have changed, but the setting's still the same. West Virginians are one of the Fox News empire's bastions of loyal viewers. These people have been inundated over the past eight years with "BARACK OBAMA IS THE DEVIL" and "HILLARY EATS BABIES" rhetoric, and by the time of the 2016 primary it's no fucking surprise that they would go with populist Bernie over the She-Devil known as Clinton. Hillary was to 2016 what Barack was to 2008: the not candidate, the rejected choice, the "I'll vote for the other guy just so that I don't have to vote for you." tl;dr you tell Shuckle he's not allowed to say West Virginians voted for Sanders simply because he was the Not Clinton choice when that was precisely the major factor at play in their primary election
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04-08-2017, 01:00 AM | #3753 |
Snackin'
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I'm not exactly sure how I can make what i'm saying much clearer. What I'm saying is: if we're assuming that Sanders won not off of his own merit but simply because he's not Hillary, then why is he still popular there today? I'm not saying West Virginians don't hate Clinton. They do. What I'm saying is that considering how shockingly popular Bernie Sanders is in West Virginia after the election is over, when he's not merely the box you can check to protest Hillary Clinton and is instead just some Senator from another state, I find it hard to believe that there aren't West Virginians who supported Bernie... because they like Bernie, rather than exclusively because they hate Hillary and he was the only viable alternative.
Moreover, i have no idea why everyone's so damn hung up on this. The actual point I'm making (Trade was more important than Coal this election) is focused NOT ON WEST VIRGINIA, but on Michigan, Pennsylvania, and to a lesser extent Wisconsin. I'm only talking about WV at all because Shuckle's focusing very heavily on it and I think it's interesting that Bernie's still popular there even now that Hillary's a nonfactor and was wondering if anyone had any opinions as to why that might be. |
04-08-2017, 01:14 AM | #3754 | |
時の彼方へ
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Location: Lafayette, Indiana
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I would still argue that Clinton lost to Sanders primarily because of who she is rather than because of what either of them stumped on, ... ... but as for the current day, if I had to surmise why Sanders is seeing support out of pockets of West Virginia ... ... Well, for starters, let's look at McDowell County. Wikipedia says it only has around 20,000 people living there today. In the entire county. Suburbs of Indianapolis have more people than that, and the small city of Lafayette (coupled with sister city West Lafayette) has just shy of 100,000 residents. So we're talking real, real small here. Even if all 20,000 people supported Sanders, it wouldn't mean much for West Virginia as a whole. But forget about that, because that distracts from your question somewhat. Why does any percentage of McDowell County want to support an anti-coal man like Sanders? Blind, uninformed speculation:
"Of 3,142 counties in the United States in 2013, McDowell County ranked 3,142 in the life expectancy of both male and female residents." - WikipediaJesus H. Christ. They're in last fucking place. Not just for West Virginia but for the whole of the United States. Daaaaaaaaaaayum. And this, kids, is why no one wants to personally mine coal.
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04-08-2017, 01:29 AM | #3755 |
Snackin'
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Oh damn. Last place in the country? I didn't know that o.0
But yeah, you're right insofar as McDowell is a small county that surely doesn't speak for all of West Virginia in it's widespread love of Senator Sanders. Still, I think it's relevant for not only the reason you said (Why the hell is anybody backing him there?) but also because it's important to couple it with the polling that implies Bernie's currently the most popular politician in America. Being an Optimistic Young'n™ makes me think, or at least hope, this is indicative of a shift from the xenophobic populist rhetoric of Trump toward the populist economics purported by Sanders in the minds of the American people now that they've seen the Donald's White House crashing and burning so spectacularly while Ryan and the Congressional GOP tries to take their health care. But it could just as easily be something else, and I suppose it doesn't matter even if it is what with the Democratic Party staying so strongly under the thumb of the establishment wing. I hesitate to say the moderate wing, because there are some very good, progressive policies touted by establishment democrats, but the (perhaps unfortunate) fact is that people like Chuck Schumer and Tom Perez simply don't resonate with the public the way Bernie and Elizabeth Warren do, and without people like them at the helm we might not be able to capitalize on this kind of fervor. |
04-08-2017, 02:01 AM | #3756 |
時の彼方へ
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Location: Lafayette, Indiana
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50% of US workers make $30,000/yr or less, the latest numbers show.
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04-08-2017, 04:34 AM | #3757 | ||
我が名は勇者王!
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At Walmart up here, my starting hourly wage is $14.50. Walmart's average is $10 and the national average for comparable work is $13, which is heavily biased against by places with a high cost of living. My county has a far lower cost of living than the national average, with a then disproportionally higher pay for unskilled labour. And this is just Walmart - manual labour, a job that doesn't even exist in California anymore due to illegals, pays $16+ starting. Quote:
In California, most of the sub-CNA "home care professionals" as you term it, tend to be either Filipino or Mexican, and female. This is just personal observation from when I visited or volunteered for convalescent/nursing homes.
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04-08-2017, 11:36 AM | #3758 | ||
Problematic Fave
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Hillary was very unapologetically blue this election, a break from her moderate tendencies. Sanders may be essentially a Commie, but he's not really a Democrat. Trump is not a Democrat either. Already you have people voting with their beer guts. I hate to bring this in, too, since it changes the conversation, but Bernie is pro-gun, Hillary is VERY anti-gun. PA and WV like their guns. MI does not, but MI saw a close race between Bern and Hill that ended up being Hill only because of Detroit. Guns were probably why. Rural democrats needed a candidate who they felt would fight for their interests and rights, and were probably rejoicing that they can finally have their democrat cake and eat it too by keeping their gun rights. My argument is less about coal in specific and more about jobs and industry. Hillary Clinton seems to think that jobs are created by small businesses and global corporations apropos of nothing. In reality, money needs to flow into an area before that area can start supporting businesses - this is the role of industry, and industry has not been active in Appalachia or in the rust belt. Quote:
As mentioned, welfare programs are not popular in red leaning states. While welfare is a solution for economic stagnancy in small towns with small businesses (we are talking literal mom n pop shops), it's just a stopgap and everyone is better off with actual money instead of food stamps and social security.
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04-08-2017, 01:01 PM | #3759 |
Snackin'
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Minor nitpick there Shuckle- Bernie won Michigan and lost Pennsylvania xp
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04-27-2017, 07:59 AM | #3760 |
我が名は勇者王!
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Yooooooo...
Past? Hm. >Verizon Communications Fuck this guy. I still maintain that I made the lesser bad choice in voting Trump - he did, afterall, kill the TPP - but that doesn't mean I have to endorse Ou-Pai. It ugly.
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04-27-2017, 12:56 PM | #3761 |
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WHY IS INTERNET NOT A UTILITY YET
It would be one thing if internet was a luxury. But at this point, not having internet or phone service in your home is very similar to not having electricity, sewage, or running water. Telecommunications should be considered a basic standard of living in the US, and the fact that they are not is consistently shocking to me. "Heavy-handed regulations" ARE a requirement when it comes to telecommunications, which 93% of all Americans use. 93% of Americans use phone service in some way. Ninety fucking three. Imagine if your water company reduced your water pressure to nothing if it detected that you were using what it decided was "too much." Or if your electric company provided certain wattages at various prices and then failed to actually provide anything near those wattages no matter what you paid. THIS IS WHAT INTERNET IS LIKE RIGHT NOW.
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04-27-2017, 01:02 PM | #3762 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Telecommunication companies are fighting it and Republicans like the corporate dick.
Not really surprising.
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04-27-2017, 02:21 PM | #3763 | |
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TPP was shit but there's not guarantee it would have 100% gone through under Hillary anyway. Sure, she flip-flopped on the issue, but she was still ultimately the better choice. She was very much pro-Net Neutrality and it would have been our duty to hold her to her promise that she had changed her mind on TPP... Trump was anti-Net Neutrality from the beginning. It hurts his rich friends and hinders big business opportunity, why the fuck wouldn't he be against it? All I can say is this: Net neutrality is dead. We should fight for it, but I guarantee you now that, for a fact, it is DEAD. There's no stopping this now. I hope you like being charged extra to visit certain websites, or having Netflix/YouTube intentionally throttled to death while Comcast and Verizon shove their own alternatives on you. And I'm sorry to be blunt, but I hope you never forget that us all being in this frightening predicament is not the Democrats' fault, but your fault, and the fault of every Trump voter. |
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04-27-2017, 04:21 PM | #3764 |
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Get ready for the end of net neutrality! Are you excited!?
Not spoilering this. |
04-27-2017, 04:41 PM | #3765 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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That makes me want to swallow cyanide.
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04-27-2017, 07:11 PM | #3767 |
Problematic Fave
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Do you think we'll see a push for municipal internet as a result of this?
I'm thinking that a push could definitely be made for that, as opposed to simply net neutrality. With net neutrality, it's just "freedom of information" at stake, but with municipal internet, consumers save a lot of money and protect their privacy. People will always vote according to their wallets, so municipal, neutral internet (you could probably convince parts of the government to impose net neutrality on municipal internet for First Amendment reasons) could gain a lot of traction as a grassroots movement, especially in rural areas that get fucked by broadband costs.
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04-27-2017, 10:34 PM | #3768 | ||
We deny our creators.
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The only hope is that there are plenty of companies with a vested stake in net neutrality and the money to throw their weight around, so let's hope that it comes down to Google vs. Comcast in the court of public opinion. Also, I know that we're all weary heading into the third decade of the Trumpshchina, but hey: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-s...act-1493320127 Remember when a politician would say something really off-message or ridiculous, and the news cycle for the next week would be a bunch of overly-coiffed TV personalities dissecting it down to the molecular level? And then we elected a president who says those same things, but so frequently and without any apparent sense of recognition or shame that the news cycle can't keep up with it all? EDIT: Piling on, but Jesus Fucking Christ Riding a Dildo Unicycle: Quote:
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"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib Last edited by Blastoise; 04-27-2017 at 10:44 PM. |
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04-27-2017, 11:32 PM | #3769 | |
我が名は勇者王!
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VGM's graphic is fake because in a non-net neutral world, Wikipedia would be blocked, as would Wikia.
Both websites could be argued to be a genocide holocaust against IP value. The in-depth summaries they provide for, not to mention the "behind the scenes" bits, are more comprehensive and free versions of the content issued on a Blu-Ray. I dunno if I've shared this with UPN before, but my dystopian vision for the future is one where content providers have realized that certain movies will guarantee a certain return over a period of time - like say, a Superman reboot. If you block out the cultural memory of the previous iteration, and prevent spoilers and/or online discussion limited to columns that could be controlled (like critics), you can turn a hit/miss industry like show business into something that poops out Frozen-like grosses multiple times each year. Quote:
That said, the future of the internet is definitely going to be wireless oriented, which doesn't suffer from the same limitations of fiber optic cables. There's pretty much no reason for wireless providers to be against net neutrality unless they're in for an anti-competitive price shark (like Verizon is known for).
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04-28-2017, 03:28 PM | #3770 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Minor thing but it is partly our fault too: Democrats backed a horrific candidate (sorry y'all: Sanders was better). If we had a better candidate, we very likely would have won.
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04-28-2017, 05:22 PM | #3771 |
プラスチック♡ラブ
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I really still struggle to believe Sanders was more electable than Hillary. I voted for him in the primaries and would have supported him if he had gotten the nomination, but he is a polarizing figure in so many ways.
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04-28-2017, 06:56 PM | #3772 |
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Fact of the matter is he was very popular with registered-unaffiliated voters like myself, which is really the group that swings the election one way or the other. The DNC pushed the candidate that repulsed those voters.
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04-29-2017, 07:58 AM | #3774 |
我が名は勇者王!
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Is Trump still popular? I thought the 100 days of not much accomplished would have hurt his popularity a bit.
I mean, I do have some sympathy for Trump in how the Democrats are trying to stonewall him - unlike where the Republicans tried to stop Obama, who was ideologically opposed to them, Trump is a weird populist mix that should appeal to some Democratic constituencies. Yet we're still seeing blanketed partisan blockades, which definitely feeds into Trump's narrative. I think that the tax thing should be Trump's version of "Obamacare", that is, his major issue. He should have focused on that first really before the wall so he could pimp it as an accomplishment. The only loser in this is the IRS.
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