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Old 08-30-2021, 06:42 PM   #76
Ironthunder
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See, I think I'd be more inclined to make it 4 for 3 than 5 for 4 if we absolutely have to change it, but honestly I think it's not a real problem. Making it inefficient is just going to accelerate it to the point where people don't use it because they've burnt all their junk. The point of the cram is to get rid of items you don't need/want and recycle them in hope of getting something you do. If I just wanted to delete the items, I'd just remove them from my member post.

As for MM's point of "work with what you're given", I don't think that is or has ever been the intention, otherwise they'd never have let you chain-recycle in the first place.
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Old 08-30-2021, 07:23 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Lil'twick View Post
Hey, so we need some feedback for a change we want to implement into the Cram. We've seen a lot of people just hard recycling their rolls, which is something we did not want for the shop. The occasional throwing in one or two items after a while is fine, but seeing people for weeks on weeks throw everything back in is starting to become a problem.

Thus, the following changes are being proposed:

A minimum of two items is now needed to recycle in the Cram-o-Matic, with a total of 5 items able to be thrown in.

What does this mean? Simple. It will now cost an additional item for the same return. This will a) further accomplish the goal of dumping unwanted items, and b) prevent users from hard recycling their weekly rolls.

Unless a hard negative majority from the community is given, these proposed changes will go into effect starting next week.
I personally do not see much of a problem with people recycling their Cram hauls. Let them do what they want, and if putting the same items back into the gacha over again is what they want, then so be it. It doesn't hurt anyone else to do so. I'm not seeing much of a problem here.

Not to mention, I'm not sure what exactly the proposed changes mean right now, especially the "minimum of two items" part. Does that mean that you have to put at least two items into the gacha for it to give you any item(s) in return? Or does that mean that you must put in two items not obtained from the gacha from that week? Currently, I'd still prefer for the Cram-o-Shop gacha to remain as is, to be as simple as possible.

I also agree with Ironthunder's post above.
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Old 08-30-2021, 07:46 PM   #78
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Lil' Bluey

Personally I'm in the same boat as MM and don't intend to recycle any items received until I've exhausted my Berries/other options. Though I also don't necessarily see a problem with those dumping "junk" back right away. (On the other hand, I do wish more people would check to see if there's interest before tossing stuff back in, since there have been plenty of "useless" trinkets I would've been happy to buy for aesthetic/collection purposes...)

That said, I do also find the wording a bit confusing, so clarification would be appreciated.
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Old 08-30-2021, 11:48 PM   #79
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I don't see much issue with people recycling items sine it's completely random and there's a lot of stuff that's just straight up useless (Vitamins, mulch). That said I also would not be objected to an inefficiency, either. I have few strong feelings one way or the other on that.
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Old 08-31-2021, 01:59 AM   #80
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Or maybe items with no FB effect could be removed from the pool to narrow the options and reduce recycling - if there really are items with no ing-game effect like Slash said, maybe they could be "benched" until mods find a use for them?
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:50 PM   #81
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Clarification:

2 items in for 1 item in return. 3 items in for 2 items in return. 4 items in for 3 in return. 5 items in for 4 items in return. The reason this is a 5 to 4 then a 4 for 3 is to preserve the balance of the current rates, as well as not affect how many items people receive weekly.

As for so-called "useless" items, I point to MM's first post here. Every item has use in Fizzy Bubbles, even if they do not have an explicit benefit at this time. With the recently announced raids rebalance, we are aiming towards making as many items useful in Fizzy as it is possible. There's nothing stopping you from using what you get in the Cram in a zone adventure. Mulch? Great, there's a lot you can do with a bag of shit in an adventure. Items added in are there for a reason, since there will always be someone who might see a use for something (such as what Yuki has said herself).

Hard recycling is an issue though, as it's effectively allowing you to take four items you need and reroll infinitely until you get something you want. The entire point of Cram was to reduce inventory clutter. which is why this change of inefficient recycle is being implemented. There'll be nothing stopping you from recycling what you get, but you still will need to put something you actually have every week. It helps facilitate the shop being a proper item dump instead of conversion, as well as make it so people are actually more interested in using the crafting section.
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Old 09-05-2021, 01:58 PM   #82
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Since there is no hard majority against the changes, the proposed changes will be going into effect. This will start with the drop-off period starting tomorrow on Monday, September 6th, 2021. Happy Cramming.
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Old 05-22-2022, 09:14 AM   #83
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Alrighty, time to dust off the machines and try and get this back up and running. There's been quite a bit since the Cram shop was last active, so a few things have to be discussed before I can run the shop again. So, I wish to start some discussion here on how the community wants to move the shop forwards.

PLA has given a much more refined crafting system than anything that we've been able to come up with. I do feel that it would be best to change what we have crafting-wise and turn it to be similar to what the game has offered us. Of course, this would include introducing those items into the game, yet we did set that aside when working on PLA changes in case the Cram shop ever came back.

As for the gacha, I have had people say they have qualms with it but never have fully gone in depth on the why. So, while I feel it is mostly fine with how it works, it more needs what's in it moved around. The item list was designed around a completely different game state, so suggestions on changes to that would be more than appreciated.

One idea, at the very least, is to have the lower/common tiers of the gacha replace the dead items with crafting materials. This way, it'll be easier for people to get rewards for crafting. Though, I am refraining from hard proposals at the moment until we get a discussion on going in terms of the shop as a whole.
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Old 05-29-2022, 02:16 AM   #84
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I personally feel like we should be careful with how much we put crafting materials into the rewards, lest it become the latest iteration of the Shop of All Trades. I'm not fully aware of how many dead items there are in the pool, but just replacing those with the crafting materials is probably the easiest way to avoid crossing that line.
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Old 06-03-2022, 12:23 PM   #85
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Popping in with a suggestion since it's become relevant to me, but I think there should be a way to craft Type Balls now that Raids are no longer a thing. Maybe rework the Gems for that purpose?

I'm not sure how useful PLA crafting materials would be as a whole without first defining what the items do. Was pretty fine with the gacha system as is.
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Old 06-11-2022, 03:14 PM   #86
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First off, what are we talking about in terms of dead items here? Like, items that don't serve much, if any, of an official purpose anymore? I'm thinking calling such things "dead" items is a bit subjective, since really, just about any item in FB could be put to good use. Take it from the guy who saved his bacon from a flock of ravenous bloodsucking Golbat with a handful of expired event Pokéblocks and his Weedle's Electroweb. To say nothing of the idea of perhaps reworking some of them into crafting materials on their own. I'd need to get a better idea of what dead items we're talking about here before I could think of anything more specific, but it seems like something we could do.

Second, implementing at least approximations of the Legends: Arceus crafting mechanics, sounds good. I feel like we don't necessarily need to implement all the materials if feasible replacements already exist within FB. Using the Poké Balls as an example- I feel like, instead of implementing a regular Apricorn and three different kinds of Tumblestone and an Iron Chunk on top of that, we could instead implement just a regular Tumblestone, and use the different colored Apricorns we already have. Here's a rough idea of how the rustic ball recipes could look, using just one kind of Tumblestone and the colored Apricorns, and also cutting out the Iron Chunks altogether for the sake of simplicity;

1 Red Apricorn + 1 Tumblestone = 1 Poké Ball
1 Blue Apricorn + 2 Tumblestones = 1 Great Ball
1 Yellow Apricorn + 3 Tumblestones = 1 Ultra Ball

1 White Apricorn + 1 Tumblestone = 1 Feather Ball
1 White Apricorn + 2 Tumblestones = 1 Wing Ball
1 White Apricorn + 3 Tumblestones = 1 Jet Ball

1 Black Apricorn + 1 Tumblestone = 1 Heavy Ball
1 Black Apricorn + 2 Tumblestones = 1 Leaden Ball
1 Black Apricorn + 3 Tumblestones = 1 Gigaton Ball

Third, I'd like to reiterate my idea for a Master Ball recipe. Yes, it would have to be extremely tough to get all the necessary ingredients by design, I'm OK with that- I for one wouldn't mind working towards a Master Ball. I believe my initial suggestion for the recipe was 1 of each color Apricorn, 1 Comet Shard, 1 Wishing Piece, and 1 Ultra Ball, to give you an idea. Like, rare, valuable items, not a list you're likely to throw the necessary ingredients for together in like five minutes, y'know? If it has to be even more convoluted than this, so be it, I'd just like it to be an option we have on the table at all.

Fourth, looking back at my initial list of proposed recipes, I remember suggesting recipes for crafting Z-Crystals, and being subsequently shot down damn near instantly. I understand that this comes at the risk of incurring a similar, if not identical response, but nevertheless I'd like to raise the notion again, see if we're all still on our respective pages on the matter.

Fifth, seconding Yuki's suggestion for a way to craft the type balls. Hell, I third, fourth, and fifth it. In fact, I'm all for making all kinds of Poké Ball craftable in some fashion. Some would naturally be trickier than others (see my Master Ball suggestion for the most extreme example), but having all of them as possibilities on the table, I feel is a better idea than not having them.
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Old 06-12-2022, 03:50 PM   #87
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I do agree with removing the dead items (like the vitamins and x items) in lieu of crafting mats. I rather have it be so that the items from PLA can be served as a basis for crafting most of the items available at the moment, as it will allow for us to have more recipes and allow for us to get almost any item at an easier rate for people.

SO, part of my thoughts was to import the base recipes from PLA into the game, with a few tweaks. I agree that we should give more to what we already have, but at the same time, I feel the current item recipes can be scrapped in favor of what can be offered from PLA.

So, ideas for that can include:

1 Apricorn (Color) + 1 Tumblestone + 1 Iron Chunk = Ball (Color)

So if you put in a Pink Apricorn into that recipe, you get a Love Ball in exchange. It better fits what's given to us as a base in the games instead of having to craft/supply a Pokeball first. This also gives us recipes to craft potions and the like, following the same baseline as what PLA gives. I do, however, wish to keep things simple and keep to just the base crafting mat (like just the tumblestone)

So, with this listas a baseline, I feel like it'll be best to expand from there. As for the balls, I do feel for what is officially out there, you can denote if you want a standard or rustic variant. Rustic Variants for balls not in PLA is a discussion for a future time. Items that weren't implemented into Fizzy are obviously excluded from this list.

As for custom items, I do also feel that they should be able to be crafted here. Especially the balls and consumables. Maybe not the memory berries, but most other things should be kosher. So, for example with the type balls, we can have:

x1 Apricorn + 1 Timblestone + 1 Type Gem: x1 Type Ball

Official Mod Stance on Master Balls is that they are not something that will be introduced into the game. As for Z-Crystals, same with Mega Stones on that they are something we rather have people work towards earning from adventures, updating, or whatever will be in the new gym system.

As for the gacha, that is something that will also go over a re-overhaul. I would like a little bit of feedback, besides replacing the filler items with the crafting supplies, on where we should move items to and the rates. A lot of the rarer items are a lot more common now than when the lists were first created. Of course, I will be writing something up and bringing it to the other mods first based on the response to this discussion before putting the full proposal here.
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Old 06-12-2022, 07:23 PM   #88
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Bluntly I feel like we should can the gacha as a whole. If people don't want items, trade em to those who do or sell em at the store. If we need better ways to disperse crafting mats, then lead in with an event/freebie or instate something like the weekly candy, but with small bags of crafting mats (so grab a pack of like 5 tumblestones, or 5 iron chunks, or 5 apricorns, or 5 medicinal ingredients, or whatever, one per week).

Crafting using that list as a base is fine, only things I'd propose are:
-Conjure recipes for status-heals (Antidote, Awakening, Burn Heal etc.)
-Clarify that the Pokeshi Doll (if bothered with) is just an alternative Poke Doll.
-Cakes would need a use and may end up overlapping with future curry/bakery plans. We hashing that out here, or is that being delayed and added when we know what's going on on the other end?
-If we're hand-crafting funkier Pokeballs, going to repeat an earlier request to allow for these balls to exist in a Rustic form. We're crafting them in the same way as rustics, after all, and it makes bugger-all actual difference beyond RP shenanigans.
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:41 PM   #89
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Quote:
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dead items (like the vitamins and x items)
Alright, yeah, forgot about those. I mean, the X items could still be used in zones, yeah? But the vitamins, I don't think we ever actually worked out uses for those, did we?


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1 Apricorn (Color) + 1 Tumblestone + 1 Iron Chunk = Ball (Color)

So if you put in a Pink Apricorn into that recipe, you get a Love Ball in exchange. It better fits what's given to us as a base in the games instead of having to craft/supply a Pokeball first. This also gives us recipes to craft potions and the like, following the same baseline as what PLA gives. I do, however, wish to keep things simple and keep to just the base crafting mat (like just the tumblestone)

So, with this listas a baseline, I feel like it'll be best to expand from there. As for the balls, I do feel for what is officially out there, you can denote if you want a standard or rustic variant. Rustic Variants for balls not in PLA is a discussion for a future time. Items that weren't implemented into Fizzy are obviously excluded from this list.
I mean, with the modern Apricorn balls, you hand in one Apricorn, you get the ball, but then, I guess Kurt probably has the other materials readily on hand... And yeah, rustic variants that don't canonically exist, I feel like that can be shelved for the time being, not least of which because of the insane spritework load that would entail, and I'm way behind on stuff I promised to do in that area as it is (honestly probably gonna ask for some help if I keep putting this off much longer tbh).


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As for custom items, I do also feel that they should be able to be crafted here. Especially the balls and consumables. Maybe not the memory berries, but most other things should be kosher. So, for example with the type balls, we can have:

x1 Apricorn + 1 Timblestone + 1 Type Gem: x1 Type Ball
I'm in agreement on this. Would it be just any color Apricorn, or are we implementing the ordinary Apricorn from Legends: Arceus as well?


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Official Mod Stance on Master Balls is that they are not something that will be introduced into the game.
Oh, how my heart sank upon reading this. If not Master Balls, though, I'm still of the opinion there should be at least one big, huge, insane, high-end kind of item that would have a ridiculous crafting recipe that would feel like an achievement in and of itself just to make, y'know what I mean? Like the robot hero in Animal Crossing New Horizons, though perhaps a touch more practical, I would imagine. Something worth the effort. I'll have to think about this, but I feel like I can come up with something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil'twick View Post
As for the gacha, that is something that will also go over a re-overhaul. I would like a little bit of feedback, besides replacing the filler items with the crafting supplies, on where we should move items to and the rates. A lot of the rarer items are a lot more common now than when the lists were first created. Of course, I will be writing something up and bringing it to the other mods first based on the response to this discussion before putting the full proposal here.
That's something I'll have to look at myself before I can give much in the way of feedback myself. If we're talking cutting the useless items, that was... basically all I had off the top of my head anyway. Well, that, and hard disagreeing with Iron on axing the gacha entirely.
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