So... are we getting a Pokemon Gray or are they actually taking a year break?

[deoxys]

Just curious.

[Talon87]

Didn't even know this until looking for some evidence before replying to you, but hey, check this out:

"No, not at all. We are done with this generation with Pokémon Black and White Edition." - Mana Ibe, designer on Pokémon Black/White

Now, people are of course skeptical about this claim. I just read a number of posts from people who expressed the common belief that GameFreak was simply saying this because to say the opposite -- "oh yes! We're totally working on a better version which will be out shortly! ^-^" -- months before the release of your game would be a pretty stupid business move. But ... I dunno. This'd make sense if Pokemon were a never-before-seen franchise, but at this point we've had five generations and the previous four of the five have all, each and every last one of them, had a tertiary game with better graphics and/or features. So I mean, it's not like we didn't see a Pokemon Gray coming. Which means there's no point in denying its existence only to then reveal it after B/W's launch. We all expect it, GameFreak. Almost every single person who bought B/W even with you withholding news about a possible Pokemon Gray were still going to buy B/W anyway. So yeah: given this logic, I'm actually inclined to believe what this Mana Ibe fellow was saying.

[deoxys]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Didn't even know this until looking for some evidence before replying to you, but hey, check this out:

"No, not at all. We are done with this generation with Pokémon Black and White Edition." - Mana Ibe, designer on Pokémon Black/White

Now, people are of course skeptical about this claim. I just read a number of posts from people who expressed the common belief that GameFreak was simply saying this because to say the opposite -- "oh yes! We're totally working on a better version which will be out shortly! ^-^" -- months before the release of your game would be a pretty stupid business move. But ... I dunno. This'd make sense if Pokemon were a never-before-seen franchise, but at this point we've had five generations and the previous four of the five have all, each and every last one of them, had a tertiary game with better graphics and/or features. So I mean, it's not like we didn't see a Pokemon Gray coming. Which means there's no point in denying its existence only to then reveal it after B/W's launch. We all expect it, GameFreak. Almost every single person who bought B/W even with you withholding news about a possible Pokemon Gray were still going to buy B/W anyway. So yeah: given this logic, I'm actually inclined to believe what this Mana Ibe fellow was saying.

Ah yes, I do remember reading that interview with him regarding such, and I took what he said to be true. I could have sworn, though, that a few weeks later an article came out in which another GameFreak staffer rebutted the claim and basically said that they have no plans for one at the time, but aren't writing it off, or something to that effect.

That was at the beginning of the year. I would have expected to hear something more by now, but I guess not.

Also, Talon, if I'm not mistaken, back when the Gen V Pokemon were being revealed, you seemed pretty turned off by the game and, if memory serves, said you wouldn't buy it. Well, I haven't lurked enough to know, but have you since changed your mind? If so, what do you think?

[Talon87]

I'll have to disappoint the rest of the board and not regale you with an essay. I didn't buy the game, I did play it, and I remain very disappointed with the graphics and the failure to implement changes to some serious problems that have been with the series for a long time. That stated, I was quite pleased with infinite TMs (who wouldn't be), there were a few diamonds in the rough creature-design wise (like the Galvantula line, Ferrothorn line, and Minccino line), and the plot was one of the best to date ...

Spoiler: show

... right up until the very end when GameFreak, via Ghetsis's final speech before you defeat him, basically shits in every fan's mouth and says "HAR HAR! You actually expected us to take seriously the accusation that Pokemon has some eerie parallels with cockfighting and dog fighting? SCREW YOU GUYS! POKEYMANZ 4 LIFE! NOW GET BACK IN MUH POKEBALL, BIATCH!" At that point, the epic plot they'd been working up pretty much fell apart. But hey: for a Pokemon game, this was light-years better than we're used to.

[Lindz]

Even if there is one its much to early to be unveiled. B/W came out a year ago. 3rd versions don't usually come out until 2 years have passed. If that quote holds true it must be because of the handheld transition. 3DS isn't like the GBC. They'd essentially have to remake B/W for Gray on 3DS. Why do that instead of going straight to Gen VI? Thats why I think Gen III remakes aren't coming up yet. Make a new engine for a new game then go back and remake stuff.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Lindz

3DS isn't like the GBC. They'd essentially have to remake B/W for Gray on 3DS.

Isn't it, though? Isn't it just like the GBC? Each can play its predecessor's games in addition to its own games. So couldn't they just program Pokemon Gray in "DS Mode" and have it run in the 3DS the exact same way that Black and White do? Couldn't they basically eviscerate the B/W code to make Gray (as I'm sure they've done with every other generation when making Game 3) and keep the DS-compatible B/W engine?

[Lindz]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Isn't it, though? Isn't it just like the GBC? Each can play its predecessor's games in addition to its own games. So couldn't they just program Pokemon Gray in "DS Mode" and have it run in the 3DS the exact same way that Black and White do? Couldn't they basically eviscerate the B/W code to make Gray (as I'm sure they've done with every other generation when making Game 3) and keep the DS-compatible B/W engine?

The graphical leap and expectations this time around is much more then just adding color to a pre-existing game. Crystal looked fine for what it was and for the system it was on. A cheap and dirty DS -> 3DS port is possible. We've seen several of them already (Steel Diver, HM 3DS, Shinobi)... but that would disappoint the heck outta people! Lazy ports usually dry up after the first year but this game would be coming out some time afterwards and would get slammed for it.

idk if 3DS games have access to the DS chipset for power/memory use but if they don't then doing a DS-mode port would make the game unplayable on future 3DS models, cause we all know how Nintendo loves to take away BC.

[CyberBlastoise]

First off, it won't be Gray. It'll be Black and White then Red all over again.

Secondly, @Talon

Spoiler: show

Face it, you're mad because Ghetsis owned your a$$ after an easy victory with N. In fact, he still owns it and he will sell you for a cigarette, because you're his b*tch. :p

Though I am a bit sad that what has become my favorite generation (take that nostalgic peoplez...why is no one screaming in anger?) will most likely not get a new game (I blame abandoned vacuum cleaner factories.)

[Talon87]

Uh, you couldn't be more wrong. XD Speaking for yourself, it seems? ;p

[CyberBlastoise]

Nah, I beat him kinda easy, but everyone else I've seen pretty much complained about that Hydreigon of his. Beartic FTW!

[Missingno. Master]

Originally Posted by CyberBlastoise

Nah, I beat him kinda easy, but everyone else I've seen pretty much complained about that Hydreigon of his. Beartic FTW!

Not everyone used Beartic, though. My team in Black Version involved no Ice-types at all. I only beat Hydreigon because I lucked out; Focus Blast missed my Emboar, allowing it to get its Speed down with Low Sweep, then KO it with a second Low Sweep.

[Talon87]

IGN.com - Pokemon Gray Website Registered

They denied it. We were skeptical. They register the domain name. And no one is surprised.

Other options:
Geek.com
Game Informer
Nintendo Buzz
Kotaku

[Lindz]

Gray/Grey would prolly be the worst title for a main game yet. I still stand by my idea it should be called Pokémon Plasma and obviously focus more on team plasma with their as of yet unrevealed(?) PKMN on the cover. But thats not here or there.

This coulda been done to prevent domain name squatting or something to that effect. Though they prolly woulda done that long ago since this title is so predictable Maybe they would do release this version after the first pair of Gen VI games? That could be an interesting new groove.

Gen VI -> GenV.3 -> Gen IIImakes -> Gen VII -> Gen VI.3 -> Gen 4makes....

[deoxys]

Originally Posted by Talon87

IGN.com - Pokemon Gray Website Registered

They denied it. We were skeptical. They register the domain name. And no one is surprised.

Other options:
Geek.com
Game Informer
Nintendo Buzz
Kotaku

Might be a precaution from the PR department and nothing more, although I somewhat doubt it.

As for Lindz... you're talking about the Reshiram/Zekrom combination Pokemon, right? That mythos alone was what instantly made me go "this is what they're going to do with the third series game" when it was discussed in B/W, and I've forgotten all about it since. It would almost certainly be the boxart Pokemon. Unless they really do go with Kyurem.

[Lindz]

Originally Posted by deoxys

As for Lindz... you're talking about the Reshiram/Zekrom combination Pokemon, right? That mythos alone was what instantly made me go "this is what they're going to do with the third series game" when it was discussed in B/W, and I've forgotten all about it since. It would almost certainly be the boxart Pokemon. Unless they really do go with Kyurem.

No no I was talking about

Spoiler: show

Genesect the one supposedly created by Team Plasma?

which hasn't been made available yet as opposed to Kyurem was just kinda in the games from the start.

[DaveTheFishGuy]

Calling it right now that Grey's mascot will be Kyurem and it's going to have an alternate 'complete' mode like Giratina did.

There's so many fanworks about a 'complete' Kyurem, it's ridiculous.

The one Lindz is on about is an event 'mon, so that won't be a mascot. Hell, look how long it took for Arceus to be released.

[Charminions]

Originally Posted by DaveTheFishGuy

Calling it right now that Grey's mascot will be Kyurem and it's going to have an alternate 'complete' mode like Giratina did.

There's so many fanworks about a 'complete' Kyurem, it's ridiculous.

The one Lindz is on about is an event 'mon, so that won't be a mascot. Hell, look how long it took for Arceus to be released.

I pretty much agree with this. Also Genesect is pretty much Team Plasma's Mewtwo so it will probably just be a late game boss in some lab or cave.

[Lindz]

C'mon guys thats all way to obvious! Its what they've trained you to think and expect over the years. Registering pokemongrey.com? A ruse. They say one thing but do another? Well the "another" is not gonna be the one ya expect! At least thats my guess anyway. Ya all can follow the sane route while I hold out for craziness and glory!

[Kindrindra]

Actually, I was kinda thinking the third version might be Clear.

@Talon

Spoiler: show

Um, I think you kinda missed the point. N still thinks that people abuse pokemon and that pokemon should be liberated from bad trainers, though you convince him not all trainers are bad, as Ghetsis lead him to believe. N actually belives in the idea of Team Plasma. Ghetsis, on the other hand, never did. He was abusing N's belief to go for world domination, which, as I was surprised to realize, has never actually been a goal of any of the Team's bosses.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Kindrindra

Actually, I was kinda thinking the third version might be Clear.

@Talon

Spoiler: show

Um, I think you kinda missed the point. N still thinks that people abuse pokemon and that pokemon should be liberated from bad trainers, though you convince him not all trainers are bad, as Ghetsis lead him to believe. N actually belives in the idea of Team Plasma. Ghetsis, on the other hand, never did. He was abusing N's belief to go for world domination, which, as I was surprised to realize, has never actually been a goal of any of the Team's bosses.

I didn't miss the point. You're just too preoccupied proving me wrong on Ghetsis's implications for GameFreak's message that you're forgetting every other line of dialogue in the game. More after the spoiler break.

Spoiler: show

Sure, Ghetsis may be the one bad apple in Team Plasma. Even though he founded the group and was its leader, sure, he may be the only person who doesn't really believe in the message he was preaching. Sure, the other six sages, N, and all the Plasma grunts may be good-hearted people who really do want to liberate Pokémon. And so sure, you may have a leg to stand on when you criticize me for bringing up Ghetsis's speech as the reason for arguing that GameFreak is trolling the fandom. But the problem is, none of that matters because GameFreak time and time again shits in the fans' mouths with every other bit of Plasma vs. Heroes dialogue in the game.

Plasma: Capturing Pokemon? That's bad. Using them to fight one another for vicious sport? That's even worse. We want to liberate Pokemon from their trainers. We want to treat Pokemon as equals. Basically, we're Poke-PETA, and we think you ought to take our criticisms of your way of life seriously.

Heroes: BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA! XD

Plasma:

Heroes: Oh wait, you're serious. *wipes tears from eyes* Look, guys. The Pokémon want to be trained by us. They enjoy fighting. The anime even says so! Just look! In the magical cartoon world, Pokémon can do vicious things like gore one another with their horns or stomp on each other with their hooves and there isn't any blood or injury! Not even a bruise! Nothing! Pokemon fights are for Pokemon what--

Plasma: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on there. You do realize that we're an allegory for the real-world PETA, yes?

Heroes: Yes?

Plasma: And you do realize that you're an allegory for the real-world dog fighters or cock fighters, yes? The same people who say "it's in the dog's nature to want to fight"? The same people who say "the cocks are just doing what Nature intended them to do. We're just watching for sport"?

Heroes: What's your point?

Plasma: Our point is, you can't just dismiss the legitimate criticism that Pokemon bears some very uncomfortable similarities with dog fighting just because you say they enjoy it and don't get injured.

Heroes: But they do enjoy it. And they don't get injured.

Plasma: Yes, but that's such an insulting retort to the real-world criticism that--

Heroes: Look, guys -- you realize that we're basically the voice of GameFreak, yes?

Plasma: Yeah.

Heroes: So then get this through your heads -- TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Plasma: -.-

Heroes:

This happens over, and over, and over in B&W. To the point that by the time I reached the end of the game, I felt very trolled and very frustrated that such a wonderful franchise was created by such prickish dicks. They won't give us the MMO, they won't give us the main console RPG, they won't even take loving and loyal fans' concerns or criticisms seriously. People have been comparing Pokemon with animal cruelty since Gen 1 and for fifteen long years GameFreak's done nothing but ignore it. Then comes B&W and what do they do? Take the time to address the issue -- with a TROLOLOL response.

[Kindrindra]

Well, I suppose I'm just being a little close minded here- I always thought the whole thing about people criticizing pokemon for parallels to dog fighting and stuff was a bunch of crap that should be grouped in with "Pokemon supports worshipping the devil!" and other idiotic stuff like that.

Really, my opinion is "Dudes, it's a video game. The entire point is to have conflict we can't have in real life for fun."


Now, on a less close-minded and dogmatic note...

While comparing pokemon to dog-fighting and such does have it's legitimate points, I think pokemon shares much more in common with competitive sports, such as Soccer or Baseball- heck, the standard pokemon arena is even based off a Soccer/Football arena! The pokemon don't inflict lasting damage on each other, they get to release their natural fighting instincts, the trainers get to utilize their brain power, and everyone benefits. A more grey area is reached when you consider that, supposedly, in the pokemon world pokemon battles are used to settle debates- the idea of a massive-scale pokemon battle taking place rather than a war seems a little farfetched (pardon the pun), but it's a legitimate scenario. However, in this case, isn't battle between super-powered creatures that will quickly recover a much better option than armed conflict between delicate humans? Also, this state of affairs helps to allow the plots of the pokemon games to work- Many fans say 'Why doesn't Giovanni pull a gun on Red?'- Because he could just have his Charizard or whatever flick the bullet to the side without a worry, of course! The pokemon battle each other on equal grounds, and the winner is the one who still has a pokemon left to threaten his now harmless opponent with. But, I'm getting away from the point. I've forgotten to mention one important point- The key difference between Dog/Rooster fighting and Pokemon Battles is that the pokemon incur no lasting damage from the battle. For that matter, pokemon is futuristic enough that the pokemon can be cured of their temporary lack of conciousness with a trip to a nurse or a small yellow crystal. I want to say more, but I feel I'm starting to repeat myself.

[CyberBlastoise]

@Talon - Ah yes, let's see here.

Rocket: No real point of existing. No plot, no nothing, heck Silver, the character, has more of a plot than these guys. No I am not counting our favorite trio into this.

Magma & Aqua: Nothing more than just jokes. "Oh look at us, we're so brilliant, let's flood the world and cause a volcanic erupting all over the world. What's that? Will we be killed? No, because we're too stupid to die."

Galactic: One of the only two teams I respect, because of their bosses and motivations. Cyrus is a pretty cool character

Spoiler: show

Plus the fact that he was a social outcast using a sort of a Freudian Excuse to reset the world to something that shown true peace and kindness.

Plasma: "Team PETA" as most seem to call, but let's think here for a moment. These guys are against these type of fightings, not only because it's violent, but also because the Pokemon are often used to fight over the stupidest of things and nothing is really done about it. After all, the ones who fight stronger and whatnot are often given levels of importance, and let's say for a moment that the champion did abuse his/her pokemon a lot...since he/she was the champion no one would be able to do anything about it. It's like a violent version of Diplomatic immunity. I of course am not implying that the champion does such a thing, but it would seem that this would be the case.

Spoiler: show

N was raised by Ghetsis to become a pawn in his game. He raised him, convinced him that many trainers treat their Pokemon like crap, and let's face it, if we went by the Competitive battlers, he'd be right. He taught him that Pokemon are not allowed to be themselves because people keep abusing them, hurting them, etc. The thing is N believed every word that Ghetsis said. So when the time came, N got his legendary, believing himself correct. After all, he's the good guy trying to stop all villains from hurting and abusing their pokemon. Though yes Ghetsis did have his own agenda, he still had a speech talent equivalent to Adolf Hitler, though we only got to see the end of his speeches.

I'd also like to go back to the "Champion could abuse his/her pokemon due to violent diplomatic immunity. Essentially, Ghetsis had planned to do this through himself and N. N would literally force people to release their pokemon or he would send Reshiram/Zekrom to do it for them. We don't know how far N or Ghetsis would have went through with this plan. Both of them would probably kill anyone that got in their way. But since N wanted to do it fair and square at first, and let you use your own legendary to combat his, and Ghetsis had to keep his political face on and he could not outright just kill anyone that stood in his way at the time, both of them would not do so. Would they kill anyone that defied them? We don't know, but I would think that they would. One believing it was the greater good, the other because he would not accept the new emperor.

[Kindrindra]

Agreeing with Blastoise here, except for team Aqua and Magma. Aqua wanted to expand the seas, which would presumably solve problems such as drought. Magma wanted to expand the land, which would presumably solve problems such as over-crowding. Their sole stupidity lies in the facts that:

a) By Team Aqua fixing it's problem, the problem Magma was trying to fix would become more acute, and visa-versa.

b) The issue that the games focused on- regardless of if they summoned the legendary or not, the teams were stupid enough to not be able to control said legends after they were summoned. They underestimated the power of gods, and were saved by a ten-year old who had been trying to stop them all along. Ouch.


Giovanni is a plain vanilla Mafia boss who I have no love for, no matter how much Reborn I read.

[Itzatrap]

Still waiting for my yearly Pokemon remake...

[Treecko's Awesomeness]

Every generation so far has had a third version, and I see no reason to believe that fifth gen is an exception.