Kaiji -Ultimate Survivor-

[Talon87]

Tonegawa is the name of the man you've met with the combed-back gray hair. His boss's name is one you've doubtless heard us use a thousand times before but is one which I shan't remind you of just yet since its reveal in the final episode of Season 1 is a pretty epic+badass scene. Teiai (帝愛, 帝 tei emperor 愛 ai love) is the name of the company of which this mysterious figure is both the primary stockholder (i.e. the owner) and the president.

"how come when one person gets electrocuted the current doesn't travel through the entire beam and knock everyone else off?"
1. The beam is always electrified.
2. The only reason the men aren't being electrocuted right now is because of the rubber insulation on the soles of their shoes.
3. One man touching his skin to the beam has no effect on the electricity's ability to penetrate the other men's soles.

Did I miss anything?

[Doppleganger]

One of Talon's spoilers is actually huge and potentially series ruining, I'm surprised he said it.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

One of Talon's spoilers is actually huge and potentially series ruining, I'm surprised he said it.

Spoiler boxed or not? If it's something in the last post, I'm all ears. Is it really spoilering her to tell her "_________ reveals his name in the final episode and it's a cool scene"? ^^; I guess it kinda is. But I get the impression you must be talking about something from last time. Except ... I spoiler boxed all of that. I even wrote out "I think it's spoilerish to warrant a separate tag." So if you'd clicked on the previous box and already reached the conclusion "!@#$ IT! HE JUST SPOILERED ME!", then I'd hope you'd be smart enough not to press on to the spoiler tag which is labeled as being spoiler-rich.

I don't think anything I wrote is series ruining though.

Series-ruining spoiler, made in reply to Doppel:
EDIT: Edited out because DRAMA.

[Doppleganger]

OH GOD

[lilboocorsola]

=x Uh, good thing I didn't read the spoiler?

(Though technically I could use my mod powers... XP)

[unownmew]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Watched episode 13.

Spoiler: show

First off, I know it was for the sake of dramatics, but it was kind of a dumb move on Kaiji's part to stomp his foot on the bridge when he got on. XP You could've killed someone!

And so it begins. As soon as one two go(es) down, the remaining's morale is shattered.

I'm inclined to think the players were drugged somehow, as those hallucinations were very vivid. As I mentioned before though, they've never changed the rules mid-game, so I doubt they would resort to such underhanded tactics.

I thought the same thing, dramatic though it was, his stomping could have killed someone.

Originally Posted by Talon87

Answer to your question

Spoiler: show

No, they're not drugged. Whether Fukumoto has gotten the psychiatry correct or not, that entire arc is meant to convey all manner of tricks one's mind might play on you while you're 40-odd stories above the ground standing on a bar that can't be much wider than 4 inches.

General answer, spoiler lite

Spoiler: show

Cheating occurs in just about every story arc in Kaiji.

General answer, I think it's spoilerish to warrant a separate tag

Spoiler: show

To you who have only seen one arc so far -- the Espoir arc, where the most prominent cheaters were the third parties Funai and Andou -- what you've speculated about must feel correct. And it mostly is ... for where you are right now.

Aside from intimating that things will change as you progress, I would like to point out that you have seen Kaiji already "cheat," in a sense, during the Espoir arc. His were mostly schemes that didn't violate any of the rules of the game ... but by that very same logic, so was the stunt that Funai pulled on Kaiji at the very start. So if we're going to straighten our heads and recognize that what Funai did is what we would ordinarily call "cheating," then it's really only fair to say that Kaiji has cheated as well:
- robbed a man of his jewelry in order to secure his freedom
- stacked the game in his favor (i.e. "cheated" the other passengers out of a fair shot at winning) by buying up all of one type of card

Anyway, if we want to define cheating as "violating the rules that are set out at the start of the game," ... no one ever technically cheats, though Kaiji comes the closest on a number of occasions. For the most part, Teiai has created a collection of grossly rigged games: so they're rigged, but little to no on-the-fly cheating takes place. Which is to say, they are so. totally. cheating in some of the arcs, but they're doing so using ONLY those things which they prepared in advance. To give a make-believe example with what you're watching right now ...
What Teiai wouldn't do: tell Kaiji that they're not going to unbolt the beams only to then go back on their word
What Teiai would do: have unbolted the beams in the first place. Kaiji complains that the beams weren't bolted down but Teiai simply smiles and says "Hey: you didn't ask. "

Or to give another example by way of Monopoly ...
What Teiai wouldn't do: yoink the Boardwalk property deed out from Kaiji's hands and say "MINE! XP"
What Teiai would do: before the game even starts, deal themselves two extra $500 bills, ask Kaiji "Look good?", Kaiji stupidly fails to notice what they did and says, "Yeah, let's play," and then once Kaiji realizes they cheated says "Tch, tch, tch, no point in crying about it now, Kaiji-kun."

That makes a lot of sense.

Hmm, should I watch 14 today or later this week? *ponders*

[lilboocorsola]

Put off watching episode 14 until recently because I wanted to try and stick to my HW schedule.

Spoiler: show

Nuuu, the poor old nice man died thinking of his wife. ;.; And he even kept silent to avoid breaking Kaiji's concentration... So depressing. Now Kaiji's all alone except for the other arc character.

At least I was a little on the mark in thinking Kaiji would be elected to cash another person's prize, since he's the most likely to make it all the way. Just didn't think it would occur when everyone else had fallen and the last one could no longer move forward.

Wonder if the man's wife will play a major role later on.

[unownmew]

Watched 14 yesterday.

Spoiler: show

I was sad about that too! However much of a coward he may have been, at least he was trying to help someone else. Some people's purpose in life is entirely to springboard others to greatness, and he fulfilled that duty flawlessly for Kaiji. And I don't mean that in a selfish or greedy way from the person being helped.

If humanity did not build upon it's own hubris, the successes and failures of other humans, we'd cease to exist, or at least be no better off then mere animals.

I feel bad for the Man's wife though, hopefully Kaiji shows the moral fiber we know he has, and helps her out once he's out of that infernal gamblehouse.

Also watched 15 yesterday, since I had skipped a week. ^^;

Spoiler: show

Dang! What a turnaround. I knew that guy was going to pull some stunts like that! So disgraceful..
Kaiji's the only one left, and his 2 tickets are invalidated..

But that was quite the catch there, with a glass staircase of salvation. Almost like Indiana Jones' "Leap of Faith" in Last Crusade.

The boss has quite some interesting philosophical views..

[McSweeney]

Speaking of Hotel Akagi ... anyone else catch that? I'm sure you did. Nice little easter egg, huh? I wonder if that hotel is actually owned by the Akagi (or his estate).

He likes to do that. In Legend of the Strongest Man Kurosawa, there's a restaurant called Akagi.

So THE LAST EPISODES.

Spoiler: show

Too bad there was no big climactic moment where Kaiji won the game, he just got more money and slowly grinded away until the machine was completely filled up with balls.

Overall, this season was a disappointment compared to season 1, but it's tough to compete with that kind of godliness. The best moment for sure was THE BOWL GRAB in Chinchiron. I also liked the ending, where the black suit felt sorry for Kaiji and gave him some cash so he could hang out with his friends. One thing that I always found tragic about Akagi was the lack of lasting friendships; due to his sociopathic personality, associates came around, but always faded away. First there was Nangou-san, who taught Akagi how to play mahjong in the first place. When Akagi went into the restaurant to confront the yakuza, Nangou was so worried about him that he burned through six cigarettes, and was clearly relieved when he came out unharmed. Nangou disappeared without any sendoff during the Fake Akagi arc. Next there was Osamu, his coworker from the toy monkey factory. Akagi saw him get screwed over by his senpais in a mahjong game, so he got revenge by stealing their life savings (also he kneed a guy in the face). This was like, the ONLY time Akagi actually did something nice for someone. Later on, Osamu accompanied Akagi on his showdown with Fake Akagi and Urabe. Osamu enjoyed some time in the spotlight with his easygoing mahjong style, but couldn't hack it against Urabe. Akagi filled in for him, and we never heard from Osamu again.

When Akagi faces off against Washizu ... the only familiar face with him is Yasuoka, the dirty cop. It's a damn shame that Akagi never ended up splitting his massive fortune from that game with his real friends, like Nangou-san and Osamu. Rather, it's characters who only used him for his talent like Yasuoka and Ohgi who struck it rich with him. Those two guys are never seen in Ten. Later on, when Akagi mellows out as an old man, he finally does get some friends, but he slowly forgets who they are due to Alzheimer's disease .

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Mcsweeney

So THE LAST EPISODES.

Spoiler: show

Too bad there was no big climactic moment where Kaiji won the game, he just got more money and slowly grinded away until the machine was completely filled up with balls.

Overall, this season was a disappointment compared to season 1, but it's tough to compete with that kind of godliness. The best moment for sure was THE BOWL GRAB in Chinchiron. I also liked the ending, where the black suit felt sorry for Kaiji and gave him some cash so he could hang out with his friends. One thing that I always found tragic about Akagi was the lack of lasting friendships; due to his sociopathic personality, associates came around, but always faded away. First there was Nangou-san, who taught Akagi how to play mahjong in the first place. When Akagi went into the restaurant to confront the yakuza, Nangou was so worried about him that he burned through six cigarettes, and was clearly relieved when he came out unharmed. Nangou disappeared without any sendoff during the Fake Akagi arc. Next there was Osamu, his coworker from the toy monkey factory. Akagi saw him get screwed over by his senpais in a mahjong game, so he got revenge by stealing their life savings (also he kneed a guy in the face). This was like, the ONLY time Akagi actually did something nice for someone. Later on, Osamu accompanied Akagi on his showdown with Fake Akagi and Urabe. Osamu enjoyed some time in the spotlight with his easygoing mahjong style, but couldn't hack it against Urabe. Akagi filled in for him, and we never heard from Osamu again.

When Akagi faces off against Washizu ... the only familiar face with him is Yasuoka, the dirty cop. It's a damn shame that Akagi never ended up splitting his massive fortune from that game with his real friends, like Nangou-san and Osamu. Rather, it's characters who only used him for his talent like Yasuoka and Ohgi who struck it rich with him. Those two guys are never seen in Ten. Later on, when Akagi mellows out as an old man, he finally does get some friends, but he slowly forgets who they are due to Alzheimer's disease .

Yeah, the "b.g." was probably the most adrenaline-pumping moment of the entire second season for me. Overall, I liked the premise behind Pachinko more, but I think you're probably right that Chinchiron was the stronger arc -- if for no other reason than that Pachinko stretched on for far too long. And that b.g. ... that was one EPIC moment. The ... (SEASON 2 BIG SPOILER)

Spoiler: show

image of all the balls on the trays at once, towards the end of the Pachinko arc

was another epic moment, but it "merely" had me smiling a huge smile. It didn't have my heart pounding out my chest and posting on UPN that I may need to go to the hospital. lol

And I didn't know that that was the cause of {}'s death. That's really sad to hear. (I say of a fictional character! lol That's when you know you've succeeded as a writer: when people react to the deaths of some of your characters the way I just did.)

[Doppleganger]

It wasn't the direct cause IIRC, those were meds. But it frustrated him enough to want to end it.

[McSweeney]

Spoilers for Ten, regarding Akagi's ultimate fate.

Spoiler: show

Akagi actually commits suicide. Everyone tries to convince him not to do it, but he refuses to live if he loses the one thing that defined him, his mind. But before that, we get to see one final game, the game to end games, from the king of games (suck it Yugi!)





The last few volumes are the most simultaneously epic, philosophical, inspiring, and heart wrenching things I've ever read, and cements Akagi's status as the greatest protagonist of all time, in my eyes. Technically, the protagonist of the story is Ten, but Akagi basically steals that mantle from him by the end. He's just that damn good, you see.

After his death, Akagi's gravestone becomes ruined after a few years, because gamblers come and chip away parts of it for good luck charms. Ten asks Akagi to forgive them ... they're only doing that because they all like him.

[lilboocorsola]

Status Update: Just letting you guys know I actually am caught up to 16. ^^; Haven't reported in since I've been kind of cheating on my project. ._.; At least it's due tomorrow so I won't have to worry about lagging behind on either anymore.

Episode 15:

Spoiler: show

Ugh, okay, the staircase trick was pretty cheap. Still wonder if there are reasons behind hosting these games other than to watch people suffer. >>;

Surprised the other arc character died so soon as well. For Kaiji to be the only one who survived is both amazing and depressing...

Episode 16:

Spoiler: show

*cringe* Who on earth would choose to lose an eye over an ear? x_X Although I wonder if just presenting that option at the beginning factors into the psychological warfare that is E-Card. The narrator also made a point of how Kaiji chose to sit with his back to the wall, so I assume that's important as well. Was it a measure to prevent other goons from reading his cards? Or is there more to it than that?

[Talon87]

Glad you're enjoying it. Sorry for the lack of reply. I did read this the day you posted it, but I was probably on a bus or something at the time browsing via cell phone and could not reply at the time. Anyway, I now see on MyAnimeList.com that you're through Episode 18. I really, really look forward to hearing what you've got to say about the next couple of episodes. If you manage to watch 19 without pressing on to 20, as we had to years ago, I will be very impressed.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Kaiji:

As Talon noticed, I have been keeping up weekly. The last couple episodes weren’t too eventful though, so I haven’t had much to say. Although according to Talon, 19’s the big break. Guess we’ll see what happens this Thursday/Friday then. =O

Where are you, unownmew? Last I heard you were on 15. If you’re behind I can wait.

IIRC, it's the 19/20 interface. IIRC, something will happen towards the end of 19, and that something will then be explored in 20. And it is quite epic. In my opinion. Your mileage may vary. (Don't make it out to be a unicorn, Yuki, or you're only going to wind up underwhelmed.) I just ... well, we'll discuss it after you've seen through 20.

Your challenge is to watch 19 ... and to resist the temptation to then tune in to episode 20 before a week has passed. If you can do that, then it either means:
(1) you deserve everyone's respect for having such amazing fortitude of will, or else
(2) you're not enjoying Kaiji as much as we were when these episodes first aired ^^;

I just hope that it's #1.

The way episode 19 ended, for me, was amazing. One of the best (so I guess you could call it one of the worst? XD) cliffhangers I've ever seen. And then 20 delivers ... in a ... we'll talk about it after you've seen it. ^^;

IIRC, Mcsweeney's "#1 Most Epic Moment" in Season 1 was what comes in between the E-Card arc and the final arc of the first season. Without spoilering you, I'll just put it this way: "respect." The others should know what I mean by this. You, too, should be able to figure out after (but only after) you've seen the relevant scene.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Talon87

IIRC, Mcsweeney's "#1 Most Epic Moment" in Season 1 was what comes in between the E-Card arc and the final arc of the first season. Without spoilering you, I'll just put it this way: "respect." The others should know what I mean by this. You, too, should be able to figure out after (but only after) you've seen the relevant scene.

I think I have an idea of what this may entail thanks to Dopple's nonchalant spoiler in the chat thread. XP

Anyway, MAL lied. I'm still on episode 18. ^^;

Spoiler: show

Tonegawa revealing the "tells" reminded me of Apollo Justice. XD I'm now waiting for Kaiji to scream "GOTCHA!" at some point. ^~

Anyway, things are really getting down to the wire now. o.o;;; Hope Kaiji can regain himself and find a way to turn things around before he loses his eardrum.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

I think I have an idea of what this may entail thanks to Dopple's nonchalant spoiler in the chat thread. XP

Anyway, MAL lied. I'm still on episode 18. ^^;

Spoiler: show

Tonegawa revealing the "tells" reminded me of Apollo Justice. XD I'm now waiting for Kaiji to scream "GOTCHA!" at some point. ^~

Anyway, things are really getting down to the wire now. o.o;;; Hope Kaiji can regain himself and find a way to turn things around before he loses his eardrum.

There are many things the spoiler could have been, but without seeing Doppel's post I have no way of knowing which (if ANY) it would be. In any event, I can tell from your post that you've still not yet seen a number of E-Card developments, so yeah: things are only going to get more exciting from here on out.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Talon87

There are many things the spoiler could have been, but without seeing Doppel's post I have no way of knowing which (if ANY) it would be.

Spoiler: show

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Look at what happened with Tonegawa in Kaiji. Bowing is serious stuff

[Talon87]

I think it's safe to say that you have no idea what he's talking about there.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Talon87

I think it's safe to say that you have no idea what he's talking about there.

Fair enough. It just sounded potentially related.

[unownmew]

I've been keeping up, just not been posting, I finished 18, and will watch 19 next week.

It's certainly getting heated there.

Spoiler: show

Tonagawa certainly knows how to read people well. I thought for sure Kaiji would have pulled at least one more win out, I never considered observing how people lean and stuff when using certain cards. I did consider watching their hands though, where they hover their hand is probably their trump, and if they give in and choose a different card, watch until they pull it out.

Also, the repeated images of the burst eardrum were entirely unnecessary. They just made me cringe each time I saw them. Uhugh. *cringes at the thought* I get the point! Stop showing it, please! >_<

Just one more win Kaiji and you can survive, you can do it! Pull a random for safety's sake! (I would >.<)

[lilboocorsola]

Watched 19.

Spoiler: show

Like I said in the chat thread, I'm sorely disappointed to find out Tonegawa may indeed be cheating. Definitely curious to know what Kaiji's plan of attack will be now though, especially after that final scene.

The first obvious idea that comes to mind is that Kaiji will give one of the mirror shards to his accomplice so he can reflect Tonegawa's cards. I don't want to believe Kaiji would stoop to their level either, but...

Oh, one thing I thought I noticed was that in the beginning, an overhead shot that seemed to show Tonegawa still had the Slave card in his hand after he had played. I immediately thought this was odd since it seemed to take away the suspense. Yet when they both opened, and it was then revealed Tonegawa had played Slave. Was this another deliberate sign of cheating? Or just an animation error?

Spoiler for next episode preview:

Spoiler: show

Wuh oh. Kaiji is shown holding the side of his head, which is all bloody. Does this mean the spike pierces his eardrum (or further D8 ) after all? O_O; Despite that, he looks pretty confident...

[Talon87]

Response to Yuki. You can click this if you've seen through 19.

Spoiler: show

You're just going to have to wait and see what happens in Episode 20. But the mirror smash scene is the epic scene I was referring to. Has to be one of the single most epic things I've ever seen in an anime. The way the glass goes flying. The stunned look on the one supporter-in-blue's face. The music. The narration. Just all of it. Very epic. And Episode 20 definitely doesn't disappoint.

Once you see 20, I can't wait to show you my old sig from way back when.

As for Tonegawa cheating ... okay, you're finally getting to one of the core themes of Kaiji. Can discuss / will discuss later else Doppel strangles me for spoilering you. But yeah: Tonegawa cheated. So what's Kaiji to do now? D:

No clue about whether there's an animation error or not. Would need to go back and check.

[unownmew]

Wow, I'm anxious to see 20 now. >_>
I have to wait.. a.. week... !!!! Gah!!

Spoiler: show

I never even considered Tonegawa could be cheating, I thought it was honestly "reading the person," I'm quite surprised, but once put into context, I can see how they would do that.

That glass shattering certainly was epic, and Kaiji looks quite confident (and bloody!) now. I can easily imagine him going demonic-looking to unsettle Tonegawa. I'm most curious about what his plan is. The only thing I can think of, is trying to trick the sensor so it reads incorrectly, but I have no idea what an accomplice will do (exactly, I know they'll help him cheat)

[Talon87]

Probably the worst cliffhanger in both seasons for me is this 19/20 interlude. If you guys can hold off for a week before pressing on to 20, you have willpowers of steel.

Readings your guys' thoughts and comments is an absolute treat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about 20 once you've seen it.