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Old 04-07-2018, 01:42 PM   #26
OkikuMew
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Welp, I'm gonna throw my second post out the window because I'm freakin' lazy and it's been pretty much covered already XP So onwards with Tate's big post!


>What are Shadow Pokemon?

General agreement. It's similar to what we used to have, plus some extra flexibility with Bond not needed to be changed/dependent to be a Shadow (but can be used in terms of "flavor"). The description of what Shadow Pokémon is is even more generic than my original one, so again, more RP flexibility.


>How do we balance Shadow Pokemon?

I kinda want to go with something like Glass Cannon, but a little less strong: Shadow-type moves does 1.5 damage more while they're 1.5 weaker against the usual types on top of the Pokémon's usual typing. Fever kicks in at 50% HP.

As for Fever itself, I would say it could be triggered at any time on top of triggered automatically when it reaches half of their HP. And I find it would be very cool to adding the "calling out" feature from the games, adding more fun into it and gives the choice of whenever canceling Fever or not (plus it could be, kind of like the games, integrated in the Clarity system, see below).


>How are Shadow Pokemon obtained?

>>Shadow Spray not being a thing

Well my previous proposition was to try and find a balance between having it and still not going in the possible morals behind the procedure... but seems like it didn't work ^^; So I'm all in to simply not making it a thing and rely on the other solutions instead.


>>Shadow vs. Bond

Yep, agree that the main issue with Bond (well, in terms with Shadow Pokémon, not in general) is that it blocks the possibility of wanting to keep Bond for whatever reason (mainly evolution and Bond-based moves).


>>Bond vs. Clarity

That said, I would prefer to keep both the old system (after some tweaks) and the suggested system, as I like them both. It'll give us more choice on how we want to do things: One person could RP a trainer that doesn't treat their Pokémon right (to a limit) or simply that their Pokémon hates the trainer, so by tweaking Bond, they'll be able to not only reflect that in-game, but also eventually reach the goal of being Shadow. And with the Clarity system, someone could RP a Pokémon that still have a good relationship with their trainer (Bond), but still able to turn into a Shadow Pokémon for whatever reason (ie wanting power, is in a bad mental state, "Lawful Evil" type, etc). TL;DR: No vs., both are good and can work together.


>>Tweaks in Bond

Fully agree with what is presented. On a sidenote: I would totally call the negative version of the Yummi Gummi as a Yucky Gummi. Because it's just so darn funny and appropriate.


>>Clarity system

Love it. I do want to add a few things though: You could also have a +1 Clarity for calling out your Pokémon out of Fever mode. And... I feel there should be more ways to lose Clarity besides Shadow Ball, fainting and the Shadow zone. I'm not sure what though...

Even though it's been said we wouldn't need a shop to keep track of it, I feel like some would need it, in a similar fashion with Rare Candies. Perhaps we should simply have the Candy Shop for only as a Rare Candy bank, and have Bond and Clarity their own shop? Speaking of shops...


>>Shadow-fying shop

I personally don't like that idea. We're trying to stay away from shops to gain things (to a certain point), so it's going against that FB philosophy. So big nope on that.


>>Getting Shadow Pokémon from zones

Horray for confirmation!


>>"Shadow zone"

Although I do like the idea in general, and I do understand the idea of limiting entrance via the Silver Umbra item, but I feel it isn't worth making it as an individual zone like the Dream World of before. I thought that perhaps, instead of making it as its own zone, that we add Shadow areas to the zones we already have. I would totally see the Topsy-Turvy Hills in New Fizz City's Outskirts, and... any area in Marécage Noir, really. that way, we'll be simply using both places and ZAs/ZUs that are already established. That said though, if it is decided that those Shadow areas stays in a single new zone, I wouldn't be that mad about it, especially with the limitations of the Silver Umbra and the 2-times per year limit.




All in all, good job Tate ^^
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:57 PM   #27
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Just an aside, in terms of creative license, if we did choose to add shadow areas to existing zones rather than open a dedicated shadow zone... I'd really prefer they be unique areas, not piecemeal excisions from the Realm of Shadows. I did put a lot of effort into everything I wrote in my proposal and I think it would leave a very bad taste in my mouth to, say, remove the Topsy-Turvy Hills from the broader context I created, and drop them, out of context, into New Fizz City.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 134 View Post
Just an aside, in terms of creative license, if we did choose to add shadow areas to existing zones rather than open a dedicated shadow zone... I'd really prefer they be unique areas, not piecemeal excisions from the Realm of Shadows. I did put a lot of effort into everything I wrote in my proposal and I think it would leave a very bad taste in my mouth to, say, remove the Topsy-Turvy Hills from the broader context I created, and drop them, out of context, into New Fizz City.
As I said in Discord, it was more of a suggestion/idea/example than actually stating that we should just dump those areas into other zones. I apologies ^^; I completely understand that you wouldn't want to put your hard work into something that wasn't meant to be into. And not to mention, messing up the work of the creators of the existing zones with something they might feel not fitting of it ^^; Instead, something more appropriate could be made for each zone.


Edit: I also want to add in some ideas I mentioned also in the Discord chat:

- Loss of Clarity for each post in the Shadow zone/areas. That said, if the goal of the adventure is to reach 0 Clarity, that mechanic might be useless (that said, Clarity is technically optional, so someone who doesn't want the loss of Clarity while in Shadow areas can be ignored.)

- Boost up the loss of Clarity to -5 or -6 when the Pokémon faints, and also add a loss of Clarity of -2 or -3 when going in Fever mode.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:09 PM   #29
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Sʜᴀᴅᴏᴡ Pᴏᴋᴇ́ᴍᴏɴ Mᴇᴄʜᴀɴɪᴄs


A Shadow Pokémon is a Pokémon whose abnormal psychological state confers certain unpredictable skills.


Moves, Battling, & Evolution

Shadow Pokémon at Lv. 01 know two (2) Shadow-type moves of the player's choice.
Shadow Pokémon learn a new Shadow-type move of the player's choice at Lv. 10, and at every subsequent tenth level.
Shadow Pokémon have access to the normal movepool of their species, including EMs, MTs, TMs, and HMs.
Shadow Pokémon disobey their trainer, roughly 25% of the time.
Shadow Pokémon receive 1.5x final damage after type weaknesses and resistances are factored. Shadow-type moves do 1.5x damage to all types.
Shadow Pokémon enter Fever at 50% HP or below.
Shadow Pokémon can evolve if evolutionary requirements are met.

Items & Shops

Shadow Pokémon can be housed in any type of Poké Ball.
Shadow Pokémon can hold and use held items.
Shadow Pokémon can be dropped off in shops.
Shadow Pokémon can earn bond and bond bonuses.
Shadow Pokémon can breed. Shadow-ness is non-heritable.

Availability

Shadow Pokémon can be encountered and obtained in zones.
Shadow Pokémon cannot hatch from normal eggs.

Quote:


Fever


Volatile status condition; can co-occur with other status conditions.
Pokémon under Fever have boosted Attack and Special Attack, but reduced Defense and Special Defense.
Pokémon under Fever disobey their trainer roughly 50% of the time.
Fever can be remedied by calling out to the affected Pokémon.


Quote:


Calling Out


The act of talking down a frenzied Pokémon.
Calling out to a Pokémon remedies it of Fever.
Trainers cannot use items or issue commands on the same turn as calling out to a Pokémon.

Cʟᴀʀɪᴛʏ & Bᴏɴᴅ


Clarity is a new mechanic used to track Shadow-ness of a Pokémon. Shadow-ness will be removed from Bond, and negative Bond values will be removed. Bond will remain otherwise unchanged.

Quote:


Clarity


★ Clarity operates on a scale of 00 to 30.
★ Shadow Pokémon start with 00 clarity. All other Pokémon start with 30 clarity.
★ Shadow Pokémon are purifiable when they reach 30 clarity.
★ Non-shadow Pokémon are shadow-fiable when they reach 00 clarity.
★ Clarity, like bond, is optional. You are not obligated to purify your Pokémon.

GAINING CLARITY
+ 01 for participating in a zone post.
+ 01 for one week spent in a shop.
+ 03 for winning a zone battle.
+ 05 for being called out to.

LOSING CLARITY
- 01 for participating in a Realm of Shadows zone post.
- 03 for initiating Fever.
- 05 for fainting in battle.
- 10 for being housed in a Shadow Ball.


Quote:


Bond


0: Your Pokémon is indifferent toward you. Frustration is at max power.

10: Your Pokémon can utilize the Move Relearner.

20: Your Pokémon can utilize any TM - even those outside its species limitations. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

30: Happiness evolutions can occur at this stage. The Pokémon can learn custom move Gummi Bomb OR an EM/MT move of choice. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

40: The Pokémon can learn custom move Guardian Terrain OR an Advanced/Shadow move of choice.* Advanced moves can now be learned by this Pokémon at the MT. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

50: MAXIMUM. Daycare levels earned for this Pokémon are doubled. This Pokémon will earn a special aura for being max Bond. Pokémon at both max level and max Bond learn custom move Defensive Shield OR one Advanced/Shadow move* & one EM/MT move. RETURN is at maximum power. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

Tʜᴇ Rᴇᴀʟᴍ ᴏꜰ Sʜᴀᴅᴏᴡs


The Realm of Shadows is a dedicated min-zone where only Shadow Pokémon are encountered, and is where Clarity is redeemed.

Quote:


The Realm of Shadows


A bizarre place, where nothing is quite normal; to arrive here is a thing of rumor and myth. Running northeast to southwest, bisecting the region of Fizzytopia, is the majestic River Virga. Folklore says that on moonlit nights a hooded figure navigates its length aboard an old, narrow vessel made of wood. For the right price, they will ferry you up the river, to a place not on any map -- a place many say doesn’t even exist.

Zone Rules:
- Entry into the zone requires payment of one Silver Umbra.
- A player may only visit the Realm of Shadows twice within one calendar year.
- A party of six Pokémon may be brought into the zone. Any member of the party may participate in problem-solving or battles.
- A player may do one of the following per adventure: catch a Shadow Pokémon, purify a Shadow Pokémon, or convert a Pokémon to Shadow Pokémon.
- To reach internal areas (Twisty Shrine, Crooked Font, or Peculiar Peak) players must first traverse through the corresponding external area.

Redeeming Clarity:
- Pokémon who have reached Clarity requirements for purification or conversion are permitted one free entry to the Realm of Shadows -- no Silver Umbra required.
- To redeem Clarity, you must provide links to all instances of gained or lost Clarity, to be confirmed with the Realm of Shadows ZA before admittance.
- When redeeming Clarity, a party of six may be brought into the zone. One of the part Pokémon must be the Pokémon whose Clarity is being redeemed.
- When redeeming Clarity, only the Pokémon whose Clarity is being redeemed may be purified or converted.
- Wild Shadow Pokémon can be encountered but cannot be captured when redeeming Clarity.
- Redeeming Clarity counts towards the limit of two adventures per calendar year.

Zone Areas:
The Skewed Forest: Along the banks of the river grows a dense forest of white-barked trees, with branches that twist and tangle in ways not seen in any typical wood. Regardless of season, the branches are always thick with leaves and abloom with strange yet beautiful flowers unlike anything ever seen elsewhere. The forest teams with life, but the Pokémon found here don't seem quite normal...

The Twisty Shrine: At the heart of the Skewed Forest is a large tree; so large it defies imagination. Its snow-white bark is covered in innumerable carvings, of pictures, of names, of wishes and ideas, in languages both familiar and foreign. Some of them are deep, and some of them are shallow; some are quite old, and others look brand new. Its branches seem to reach the heavens, and its roots, each one as thick around as a man, rise from the soil in fantastic knots and curls. In the hollow space formed between the earth and the twist of the mightiest of the roots is a shrine with no known origin to the deity Pokémon Lugia, said to have been so overwhelmed by its own power that it hid itself in the sea. An earnest prayer to the wooden effigy can bring clarity to those in need, or unshackle those who wish to be freed from the restraints of normalcy.



The Lake of Reflections: A rivulet breaks from the river, trickling down a steep slope to pool in the basin at the foot of the hills. Opalescent and almost ethereal, the water reflects back a distorted image of the world. Crooked reeds grow around its edge, skirted by oddly shaped lily pads and strangely colored grasses. Deep enough to swim in, its surface ripples with all the signs of a thriving ecosystem, but the creatures that call this place home are just a little unusual...

The Crooked Font: On the far side of the Lake of Reflections is a crude fountain made of smooth yet irregularly shaped rocks of many colors, set into the side of a hill. It flows, never-ending, though there there is no evidence of a spring to feed it. The largest of the stones forms a centerpiece, upon which is painted odd yet recognizable images of the deity trio of Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres, their wings folded and their heads bowed as if in deep introspection. The water here is cool and sweet and pleasant to drink. It is so refreshing that it is nearly transcendental; those who imbibe talk of seeing the world with a new clarity, or discovering new resolve to walk a unique path in life.



The Topsy-Turvy Hills: Surrounding the Lake of Reflection are seven hills, with drastic slopes and lopsided valleys. So wild are the curves and peaks that to walk them is to not even know if one is coming, or going. Wildflowers grow along their sides in neon colors that defy nature, speckled like faerie lights in the tall grass. Even when the winds are still, the hillsides rustle with the comings and goings of little critters that, under close inspection, are a tad bit odd...

The Peculiar Peak: Reaching the top of the tallest hill is surprisingly challenging. Though ostensibly of finite height, those who try to climb find themselves seeming to make no progress in their ascension -- up and up they walk, and yet the peak doesn't ever seem to get any closer. Still, it is just a hill; if one walks long enough up its side, surely one will reach the top eventually. If you do, a breathtaking view awaits. Here, one can see everything in the realm, which seems to stretch on forever in a tapestry of thickets, hills, valleys, and rivulets. Towering above the earth, one could almost catch the stars that streak through the sky as they fall in twos and threes in an endless cosmic cascade. A constellation likened to the deity Pokémon Ho-oh hangs like a crown jewel over the peak, promising to bring new and different life from the ashes of the old -- a clearer future, or a strange new journey.
Quote:


The Silver Umbra


An unusual silver coin of unknown origin. On its face is an impression of the deity Trio of Entei, Raikou, and Suicune. Supposedly, it can be used as currency...

Obtainable as: Staff reward, alternative to Shiny Spray. (@ 50FC, 100FC, 150FC, etc.) Rare zone reward. Event.



Last edited by 134; 06-08-2018 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:18 PM   #30
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The only thing I’m not the *biggest* fan of the 25% chance to disobey from an RP perspective but I don’t see any other issue and it definitely isn’t any sort of dealbreaker for me. A simple solution though I just thought of: at X (max?) bond the 25% chance goes away.
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:40 PM   #31
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I haven't given as much of my thoughts on this as I probably should have, but this all looks good to me, especially the new Fever and Clarity mechanics. The one problem I have is that Shadow moves don't act different when used on Shadow Pokemon vs. when used on non-Shadow Pokemon, which is something the games were very clear on. I personally think it makes sense for Shadow Pokemon to take reduced damage from Shadow moves because it doesn't disturb their soul as much it would other Pokemon.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:02 PM   #32
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I second biggggg and GS's respective concerns, and want to add my two cents- namely, about Fever. Why come up with the name Fever for what Colosseum already calls Hyper Mode? Granted, Hyper Mode increases Shadow Rush's crit rate instead of altering stats like Fever does, but I feel like it's close enough to Hyper Mode. Additionally, I'm thinking that maybe instead of the disobedience being a constant thing, maybe it could be tied to Hyper Mode, in addition to (or maybe instead of?) the defense drops. In Colosseum, Hyper Mode made it so ordering any non-Shadow move made the Pokémon likely to disobey said order. Just my suggestion on the matter.

Other than that, this all looks fine to me.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:25 PM   #33
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I've had some time to mull over this since my incident on Discord, so let's try this again- on the thread, at that~!

Building on MM's comment regarding Fever, XD chose to call the same event "Reverse Mode" instead of "Hyper Mode", though that may have more to do with the fact that it was purely negative for you in that particular case. I imagine that your name stems from the quote "[Pokemon]'s emotions rose to a fever pitch!"?

I am a bit concerned about the fact that Shadow pokemon receive such a high damage multiplier from all attacks (possible leeway for Shadow-on-Shadow action not included), especially since the Life Orb only buffs attack damage by 30%. I do get why the modifier exists from a balance perspective (though it is another case of Hyper/Reverse Modes getting kinda spliced into the state of being Shadow in the first place), so maybe knock it down to 25%? They are still subject to the normal Type Chart, after all, and the highest Base Power Shadow attacks have is 120 (on an attack with poor Accuracy and subjects the user to the effects of game!Super Fang, at that). We do want these things to be unwieldy, but not completely detrimental.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:11 AM   #34
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Honestly from my own personal perspective this by and large looks really good, the only thing I would change is the % chances to more general guidelines, since I think the consensus is to leave it more in the updator's hands than an RNG in terms of stuff like this (Source: Previous Bond dicussion).

Otherwise this looks really polished and well-done.

PS: "Twisty" Shrine is funny. I like it.
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