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Old 04-24-2017, 10:59 PM   #1
Emi
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Mew Pokemon Rarity

So this is a topic that has come up not just on the forums, but also on Discord as well. As we all know, FB historically has had a rarity list, stratifying the Pokemon one could obtain in the game by their perceived rarity. Given the talk that has come up, I feel that right now instead of trying to push some kind of proposal, we discuss this, since I'm not really sure on how the community as a whole feels about it.

Should we keep the rarity list, or should it be scrapped?
If you feel the rarity list should be scrapped, for what reason?
If we keep the rarity list, do we feel that it needs to be altered in any way? For example, should it be simplified or should Pokemon be moved up or down for some reason?
If we keep the rarity list, where should it be applicable? Zones? The Egg House? Starters?

Reminder this thread is about gathering ideas and discussing the topic rather than trying to push anything forwards.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:03 PM   #2
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For reference, here's the rarity for Gen VI, just in case you guys need it.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:23 PM   #3
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oooh boy this needs major revising
1. we need a list that is easily availible that does not seperate them by type
2. starters should be comon
3.combee should be comon
4. vulpix, growlith, cubone and carbink should be comon
5. bonsly should be rare if not comon
6. girafrig should be rare if not super rare
7. gastly, ralts,shuppet, and cavana could be comon (gastly and shuppet at least)
8. miltank should be comon and eevee should be rare
9. luvdisc and alomamola should be comon
10. deerling should be comon
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:30 PM   #4
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I am in favor of keeping the rarity list. It should play the same role in the Egg House as it always has, and as far as zones, it could serve as a general guideline for updaters as to which Pokémon would warrant a longer, more involved adventure to earn. I believe that's how it's always worked, actually, unless I'm mistaken. Using Heatmor as an example, I caught mine at the very end of a very long, very epic adventure, which culminated in me killing a giant tyrannical Heatran, restoring peace to Aduro Island and basically killing off all volcanic activity on Mt. Aduro. Meanwhile, I saw at one point in Cortoza that Rakurai tried to catch a wild Heatmor relatively early on in an adventure, and a cave-in or something interfered with the catch attempt. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure you have to get more done to earn the right to catch a Super Rare like Heatmor.

As far as starters go, the only way the rarity list has been coming into play with what's being mostly agreed upon is that Ultra Rares aren't allowed as starters. I see no issue with this.

I'll have to look over the rarity list to be certain, but I don't know of anything that I think should change rarities, at least in my opinion.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:42 PM   #5
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alright so ignoring the concept of common starters (why tho)

With the growing movement of FB becoming a wishlist-y "RP with the stuff I want to RP with", there is little to no reason to hold onto the rarity system. The Egg House is almost guaranteed to change drastically, with most proposed updates suggesting a small number of eggs. A new Egg House with limited enough amount of eggs released to the public could have the source of the egg create their own RNG tables for the egg customized to the event or player, whether the source is a mod for an event, an updator, or the Egg house owner. Custom tables work better for the ideal of FB we've been working towards than a generalized rarity list.

If we opt for that with the Egg House, zones are almost definitely not going to use the rarity system because zone adventures are (still) tailored to players. Registration, we have an entire thread dedicated to the criteria for starter pokemon, and at no point has rarity come up as a limit we're seriously considering.

Ignoring a less drastic Egg House overhaul than I expect, whats the point of a rarity list at all?
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:42 PM   #6
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So before I go to sleep, I would like to give some opinions myself.

First of all, the rarity list is, and for the most part always will be, stupid. Gamefreak is not consistent in how rare Pokemon are in its own games bar a few specific examples. Stuff like Heatmor don't seem very rare to me, but they are for some reason on this list. Ultimately, I feel keeping the list for the most part is going to cause more trouble than its worth, and that its ultimately a bad thing for Fizzy Bubbles. Pokemon rarity shouldn't decide the length in the adventure in most cases. This creates an artificial shortage of Pokemon where there doesn't need to be.

I think there should be a rarity of Pokemon in certain unique cases however, and these are the ones where the games have been consistent on saying "no there is really not a lot of these out there". Granted, this number of Pokemon is very few: we're talking about Fossils, Type: Null, Spiritomb, and arguably Porygon, Zorua, and Rotom. My limit here was just having consistent catching opportunities, which Spiritomb definitely doesn't have and can be dubious in the case of the other three (really? Rotom is found in trash cans in the Old Hotel on Tuesday? lol). These would essentially be "Ultra Rares". Ultra Rare would essentially be zone only: no hatching them from the Egg House, no having them as starters. But simply point I would rather this list be small and include very little while having a consistent basis for inclusion.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:53 PM   #7
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Rarity possibly makes good sense for players who want to be surprised by what they encounter. I think it can be debated, but let's just say it's matter-of-factly a good idea for such players.

Rarity makes poor sense for players who are hoping to run into Pokémon on their wishlists, as well as for updaters who are planning to use those wishlists. I mean, rarity is completely meaningless -- fangless, toothless -- in a world where what you're getting is largely, if not entirely, proscribed by whom you've put on your list. "I want a Dedenne, a Mareep, and a Goomy. :3" Well alright, then: you're obviously getting a Dedenne, a Mareep, and a Goomy, though not necessarily in that order.

Thus, in order to even have a discussion on rarity, you must first decide what sort of game you want FB to be. Is it going to be a game that is wishlist-driven? Or is it going to be a game that's surprise-driven?

(Wrote this up before there were any replies and sat on it. Glad to see at least one person had the same thought as me!)
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:36 AM   #8
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I changed my mind and agree with the post above me
NO RARITIES
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:56 AM   #9
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So I agree that the rarity list would be close to useless if we choose the Pokémon that shows up in zones/hatching based on the person's wishlist.

But, part of me still kinda wants to keep the rarity list. (Why I have a feeling I keep going for the unpopular choice? ^^;) HOWEVER, combined with the wishlist thing, I want said rarity list to be a reference, and not a guideline. Just have it as something an updater (in a zone or whatever the egg house will become) could use if he/she's having a hard time to choose which Pokémon to give to an updatee/hatcher. Namely:
  • The updatee/hatcher requests to have his zone capture/hatch to be similar to the old system/the games, that is randomisation based on location + rarity.
  • The updatee/hatcher has a super-long wishlist; the updater has a hard time to choose and wants to make it fair in terms of rarity.
  • The adoption center needs to "generate" a new Pokémon to be added in, and wants (for some reason) to be related to rarity.
With all that, if you guys want to make all that shit super-simple, I could imagine myself making, on my spare time, a webpage (similar to my Calendar 2.0) that not only will be used as a rarity list, but also can be used as a random Pokémon chooser (the updater can check all the Pokémon that wants to be possible to get, choose whenever the randomisation based on rarity or not, click a button and boom instant random Pokémon based on what they chose). I know that random Pokémon selector already exists, but something that is used just for us would be cool.

Would any of that be ok? I know this implies we'll have to debate on the rarity of certain Pokémon, but at least it won't be something that needs to be followed to the letter.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:02 AM   #10
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I do like that idea in the event that people do want to keep the rarity list. I still worry that its going to be used as an excuse to make Pokemon harder to get though. People have expressed frustration over bidding wars for example, and one of the ways to deal with that is to make rarer Pokemon easier to obtain. Not necessarily to make more Pokemon appear, but to make them more diverse. Essentially, instead of answering the problem by going 1 / 10 to 10 / 100, we simply go 3 / 10 instead.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:19 AM   #11
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I agree with that, Emi I do want to point out that making the rarity list not a mandatory thing will already help out, too, but I wouldn't mind at all seeing the rarity thing downplayed more. The odds related to the rarity is something that would need to be adjusted and talked about.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:30 PM   #12
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So MM I know you wanted to keep the rarity list, but I'm curious on what you think about Okiku's idea?

In addition, because there is talk of a wishlist thread, how should we differentiate adventures in which someone is looking for a specific Pokemon (say, a Wish Adventure) or an adventure with a random Pokemon reward? Should one give more than the other?
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:49 PM   #13
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I'm liking Okiku's idea of making the rarity list more of a reference than something that necessarily needs be followed. That way nobody's bound to it for things that need not necessarily call for it, but it's still there if someone wants to refer to it for one reason or another.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:47 PM   #14
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I think rarity as a reference is a good thing, as I feel some sort of distinction should probably exist. Having said that, I also think the wishlist zone idea is a little silly. I'm okay with things being tailored to some degree, but I also feel that if done to a great enough extent could stand to, in many ways, cheapen the FB experience.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:18 AM   #15
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I agree with the idea of having a rarity list available as a guideline for an updater if they feel that they need it. It shouldn't be something that has to be strictly adhered to, but as a reference, I think it will have a use. What if someone decides not to make a wishlist? (Or any of Okiku's examples, really.)

Emi, in regards to differentiating adventures, we just need to have an agreed upon method to do so. Something like putting "Surprise me!" in an intro post if you don't want to go by your wishlist. Or conversely, if you want your wishlist to be used, link it in your intro post, and if you don't link it, it won't be referenced for that adventure. Whatever is decided on, as long as it is clearly visible and understood how the system works, I think allowing people the option to choose will work fine.

I don't think that there should be any difference in how much reward is given and/or how long the adventure is inherently. It should only be determining whether a Pokemon is pulled from the wishlist or come up with by the updater.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:07 AM   #16
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If there anymore opinions on keeping the rarity list as a reference but not a guideline, I would like to hear them. This is one of the topics I feel that we should get finished up soon, because its important to getting the zones back on track.

Are there any changes we want to make to the rarities themselves? Personally, I would like to see more downflow if possible: some types, like Ghost for example, have very few commons and many Rares / Super Rares. I'd personally like to see at least two-thirds of every type be Common, with the remaining Rares / Super Rares making up 1/3 (its an easy 2 to 1 ratio).
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:12 PM   #17
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*pops in*


I was just about to ask about both keeping the rarity list as a reference (that is, if the choice is official) and what changes should be done with the rarity list itself.


I like the idea of balancing the rarities between types (ex.: 2/3 common, 1/3 uncommon, 3/12 rare and 1/12 super-rare). It would balance things out and also gives a better idea in terms of "chances of getting X Pokémon" easier to calculate.

Now the question is to decide how Pokémon are are with which rarity... which may going to be a pain since the rarity of Pokémon always changes from game to game. Another thing to check is to see if we want to change the actual categories of rarity or not.


I would also like to put a reminder of my idea of an online/HTML rarity list, similar to the calendar, but it would also double as a Pokémon random generator with lots of options in terms of Pokémon that are opt-out or not of the randomizer, which would be useful for updaters. The only problem is that depending on the options, this can be difficult to program, but I know for sure that it isn't impossible. If there's a high enough demand I can work on it on my off time, but if nobody cares well obviously I won't spend my time giving myself headaches for something nobody is going to use ^^;
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