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Old 06-29-2016, 12:37 PM   #626
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Would someone be so kind as to explain why Labour is so divided about Corbyn? He seems like one of the more competant and publicly popular MPs I've seen in recent years.
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:32 PM   #627
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Probably because they're blaming him for not having a strong stay campaign.
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:00 PM   #628
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Would someone be so kind as to explain why Labour is so divided about Corbyn? He seems like one of the more competant and publicly popular MPs I've seen in recent years.
There are a couple of major reasons.

He is, quite simply, inept.

He has historically been a strong backbench MP, raising awareness of some issues no-one else cares about and achieving some victories on various noble causes. However, he has zero experience of leading anything, zero experience of ministerial office and very little respect among Labour MPs.

He was elected by members and unions and is perceived to be strongly on the left of the Labour Party, in contrast to Blairites who had previously been in control. Support from these groups, to an extent, remains in place and he is therefore seen as reasonably likely to win the coming leadership contest*. However, he was just barely nominated to the position by MPs in the first place and has now lost a Vote of No Confidence among MPs. They do not believe that he can win a General Election, which is reasonably likely to happen in the next six-nine months.

The EU campaign is seen as the last straw by many. He pseudo-campaigned for Remain but it transpires that his office actively and deliberately sabotaged the Remain campaign.

Regardless of his remaining popularity amongst Labour members it is the opinion of much of the UK political punditry that he is 100% unelectable. My personal prediction is that Labour would be reduced to 150 seats or fewer if he remains as 'leader', with many going back to the Tories, one or two going to the Lib Dems/Greens and the rest going to various nationalists. It is now looking vaguely possible that the Labour Party will split in two, although I don't know how likely I think this is myself.

*assuming he is legally allowed to run, which is likely but by no means certain
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:43 PM   #629
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Well, that's completely turned my opinion on him around. I was missing a fair bit of information. Cheers.
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Old 06-29-2016, 08:23 PM   #630
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Well I would encourage you to google things and make up your own mind on him but yeah. He is in some trouble. Like I say I think that if he chooses to try and keep his job he'll manage it but he'll be pretty weak.

But the front runners for PM are both homophobic nutters so his problems are kind of incidental.
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Old 06-29-2016, 09:44 PM   #631
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But the front runners for PM are both homophobic nutters so his problems are kind of incidental.


I mean, we're both in bad shape. And I've no doubt you'll be quick with one of your typical, "Ah yes, but you lot are far worse off than we are" retorts. But the general predicament bears too many similarities with a man on a lifeboat pointing and laughing at us as our holey lifeboat takes on water ... only for his own lifeboat to suddenly spring a leak and start taking on water fast too.
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Old 06-29-2016, 11:59 PM   #632
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Britain has it a lot worse.

I think if anyone thought Trump was a RINO, what's happening to his campaign is proof he wants Hillary to win.
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Old 06-30-2016, 02:17 AM   #633
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Donald Trump has literally incited racial violence this campaign.

Try again!
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Old 06-30-2016, 04:18 AM   #634
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I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON
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Old 06-30-2016, 06:22 AM   #635
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Donald Trump has literally incited racial violence this campaign.

Try again!
So has the Leave campaign. Kush, come the fuck on.

So, BoJo is NOT running for PM, it's May vs Gove so far.

God help us all.

EDIT: Confirmed candidates for Tory leadership are:
Stephen Crabb
Liam Fox
Michael Gove
Andrea Leadsom
Theresa May
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Old 06-30-2016, 06:36 AM   #636
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Oh yeah that's true they did.
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Old 06-30-2016, 01:12 PM   #637
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So if I'm understanding things correctly, Corbyn wanted to leave but pretended he didn't, but because he lost the campaign he didn't want to win, his party wants to get rid of him so they can get somebody who can win the campaign he lost even though it's already over.

Meanwhile, Boris Johnson wanted to win by losing, but instead he lost by winning, because Cameron quit instead of taking responsibility for the stink bomb called Article 50. Also Gove backstabbed him. Now a woman who campaigned for stay but is now saying she wants to leave may become the winner. So the new prime minister won't be opposed by the opposition, but this is okay because the opposition is opposed by itself.

Except Theresa May isn't a winner, because winning means you have to jump on the Article 50 grenade which means you lose. And since nobody wants to lose, they're gonna stall with an election that everybody kinda wants to lose, because winning means you have to activate Article 50, which means you lose. Unless you win and don't activate Article 50, which means you still probably also lose because that would be undemocratic and awful.

So basically everybody's a loser except maybe the SNP who won because everybody else lost. But even if they win by leaving, they may still lose because leaving is still a bad idea.

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Old 06-30-2016, 01:21 PM   #638
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Oh Jesus I've gone cross-eyed.
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Old 06-30-2016, 02:11 PM   #639
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Basically unless someone decides to override the referendum (Which is perfectly legal, referendums are merely advisory iirc), whoever takes power next is buggered. And if they override the referendum, they'll be bollocksed for being undemocratic. But tbh the best outcome for this is that whoever comes in overturns the referendum and starts kissing arse even harder than Cameron did to try and ensure we stay.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:29 AM   #640
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:01 PM   #641
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So can we place Dave Cameron on the list as one of the worst PMs in history? Britain is screwed, but things look even worse right now because he didn't invoke Article 50, but going all Pontius Pilate on the matter.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:00 PM   #642
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Do you guys think that this will lead to Irish unification and/or other countries leaving the UK? The non-England members of the UK sound pissed.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:47 PM   #643
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So can we place Dave Cameron on the list as one of the worst PMs in history? Britain is screwed, but things look even worse right now because he didn't invoke Article 50, but going all Pontius Pilate on the matter.
Actually the only reason Britain isn't totally screwed yet is that he did the intelligent thing and didn't invoke Article 50.
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Old 07-02-2016, 05:08 AM   #644
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Do you guys think that this will lead to Irish unification and/or other countries leaving the UK? The non-England members of the UK sound pissed.
Scotland, possibly. NI? Doubt it. I don't think there's enough support for a border poll and people fear going back to days of violence. Plus the DUP holds a majority and will do everything they can to stop it.
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:36 AM   #645
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What's this article 50 anyways? From the sounds of things it seems like an end-of-the-world button.
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:52 AM   #646
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It refers to Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon, referring to EU State Membership:

"1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49."
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:45 AM   #647
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Whoever invokes the article is going to be screwed for life as a politician, even if it's essentially a formality, although an important one. It's the killing of a pig to get the pork.

Cameron's career was already toast, so he should have invoked the article, given he was the one responsible for calling the referendum and gave a voice to the UKIP. Britain leaving the EU is inevitable. Now, nobody wants to take up the reigns just to detonate their political career.

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Actually the only reason Britain isn't totally screwed yet is that he did the intelligent thing and didn't invoke Article 50.
Britain is royally (hah! English pun) screwed as the chances of overturning or ignoring the referendum are remote, and the power vaccum in the UK right now is going to prolong the period of uncertainty and turmoil in the economic sector.

The UK economy's best route to recovery is to roll out the divorce papers quickly, and absorb the short term shock. Drawing things out will lead to a recession, since companies are pulling out their investments and stakes from Britain given the uncertainty.

The dollar-pound fall, when I looked at it on my global investing account, was not as severe as everyone said. It's not like the exchange rate was world-beating before Brexit. Similarly, while stocks did get hurt following the aftermath, things were nothing like the multiple government bankruptcies that threatened the EU back in 2011.

Similarly, while stocks did dive on Monday, what happened earlier in the year from the oil oversupply was much worse. But the problem is the rebound has only been modest, stocks are still hovering not far beyond their 5 year lows. That's a problem.
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Old 07-02-2016, 02:54 PM   #648
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It's not just that Dopple, in a big surprise for many voters, the EU provided lots of subsidies, and, mostly farmers, are pretty scared of becoming bankrupt when loosing this. British parlement will have to realocate some money to those who will get hit most before invoking the point of no return.

But I will agree with you that one way or another, they need to do it fast.
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Shouldn’t the Hoff be doing something if he’s still around? I have strict rules about leaving the pool, and I’m sure vanishing the pool out of existence breaks those rules in some way :P
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Old 07-04-2016, 05:44 AM   #649
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Hahahahahahaha
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:54 AM   #650
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Yeah, Rangeet has highlighted a cool thing. BBC reports:

UK's most annoying man quits as leader
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