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Old 11-09-2017, 10:25 AM   #26
Mozz
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Fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to respond more than "your idea is bad and you should feel bad", genuinely much appreciated.

How about the possibility of doing an inverse version of what the game does with STAB moves; non-STAB attacks do only 2/3's damage or something? Still viable when SE or when they have a useful added effect (status, stat boost) while reducing the likes of Clefairy's ability to typespam turret their way past everything purely by virtue of having access to every type under the sun. Also might make people more inclined to use their offtype energy for more interesting utility moves.
i am incredibly far removed from this, and nobody asked me, but...

fwiw we have certainly tried a wide variety of workarounds for Clefable, including normal-specific energy limits, off-type energy limits, off-type power reductions, and so on.

1.5x/2x would be interesting, anything that gets mantine more play and reduces the incidence of "mantine is only 1x to electric" or whatever sigs instead of creative sigs (not even sure if this is a thing anymore)

Clefable vs Mantine should be a relatively fair fight. Make Clefable slower to use off-types, give it less electric reserves, and make the moves weaker, and sure it might land a TBolt that does 3x, but Mantine should probably still fear god when it sees yellow energy? I'll go back to yelling at clouds now
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:53 PM   #27
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:42 PM   #28
Shuckle
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I'm a big fan game design wise of having type matter less. I think it opens up more strategic space and keeps certain choices from being too good or too bad.

The way I see it, super effectiveness is free 0-cost damage. And that's why I support 1.5/2. We don't allow normal boosts to go up very high precisely because it would cause SE moves to be fucking bonkers. Conditional damage bonuses feel really good to pull off, and reducing type effectiveness would lead to more space for those.

I think people are forgetting about that point. Changing the SE scale should mean changing boosts and bonuses to feel more impactful, which means the metagame starts adapting to those and the actual game mechanics become worth playing around.

I don't think that super effectiveness feels too strong just in terms of how fast things die. I just think that it crowds out other things that make the game more fun. And looking through these other responses, I'm seeing a lot of talk about that more so than the actual power of super effectiveness.

Treating SE for what it is, an anti-resistance, means it shouldn't be that much more powerful than boosting moves which are gated by energy inefficiency and lower power. Most boosts are 1.1 or 1.2. And then SE is all the way up at 2 or 3. It's just too big of a jump for my liking. Having both be 2 or 3 is WAY too much, so reducing SE just makes a lot of sense to me.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:54 PM   #29
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As someone with a penchant for using Pokemon with double weaknesses I generally agree that the proposed reduction would make these mon more playable.
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