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Old 10-03-2020, 07:55 AM   #26
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Natures existed back when the old PokeSpa was around, as I remember you couldn't feed certain Pokemon certain Pokeblocks. I'm guessing they faded out of relevance though.

Here's the article I was going off for Berry rarity (if you scroll a bit down).
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Old 10-03-2020, 08:54 AM   #27
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I hadn't realized there were people who didn't declare Natures at all, but I suppose it makes sense if they're not really relevant anymore. I mostly suggested that angle first so as not to have to deal with altering percentages. OTL

Looking at the list, maybe we could so something like a tier-system similar to the original proposal, where adding up the rarity points of similarly flavored Berries yields better results (again assuming max of five total can be mixed at a time):

1-4 = +1 Bond
5-9 = +2 Bond
10-14 = +3 Bond
15-19 = +4 Bond
>20 = +5 Bond

Then for Level gains, maybe it's just dependent on the number of same-Type Berries added? Idk, my maths is not good so again if anyone has a better idea for fair distribution please let me know. ^^;

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Old 01-13-2021, 02:07 AM   #28
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In order to help move this discussion along, I put some thought into how I think the curry system could be developed. Let me know what you all think.

Getting Started: A person must participate with at least 1 Berry to offer as an ingredient as well as bring 1 Pokemon to assist with the cooking. You may contribute more than 1 Berry to the pot, but once the pot reaches 10 Berries (or some kind of time limit has passed) the cooking will begin. This means a maximum of 10 people may participate in a single cooking at a time. I think as a level of organization and balance, only 1 curry cooking may go on at a single time, and you may only participate in 1 curry cooking per month.

Based on the quality of the cooking, everyone who participates will be rewarded with a corresponding result. I think the best way to score the curry is to break it down into 4 components:

1. Flavor
● Determined by the quality of berries used as ingredients, a cumulative value for each flavor type using the Gen. 4-8 flavor values.
● The quality of the curry lies in whether there is a dominant flavor, so as a result of competing flavors, the quality will in turn drop.
● If the dominant flavor has a cumulative value of at least 50 higher than the second highest flavor, the curry’s flavor will be Top Rating. If the difference between the dominant flavor and the second highest flavor is 25 or higher, it will be a Good Rating. If the difference between the highest and second highest flavor is less than 25, it will be a Poor Rating.
2. Temperature
● Determined by the quality of temperature in which the curry is cooked, a curry that is too hot will burn while one that is too cold won’t be cooked.
● ‘Fan the Flames’ portion of cooking, the temperature level must fall within a specific value range, exceeding that range positively or negatively will result in lowering the quality of the curry’s temperature rating.
● Fire or Wind-based attacks for example might raise the temperature while Ice attacks might lower it. Attacks that are too strong might do more harm than good.
3. Texture
● Determined by the quality of texture in which the curry is mixed, a curry that is too slowly will burn while one that is mixed too quickly will spill.
● ‘Give It a Good Stirring’ portion of cooking, the texture level must fall within a specific value range, exceeding that range positively or negatively will result in lowering the quality of the curry’s texture rating.
● Like Temperature, there could be an acceptable range of mixing speed to achieve Top Rating while falling outside of that range could negatively affect the rating.
4. Passion
● Determined by the amount of love that went into cooking the curry.
● ‘Put Your Heart Into It’ portion of cooking, the more affection that you give the cooking, the higher the rating will be.
● No upward boundary on how much affection you can give it. Not enough affection will result in a lower rating, however.
Rating the Curry & tiers of rewards:
Based on the cumulative ratings of Flavor, Temperature, Texture, and Passion, the curry will be graded. I haven’t put too much thought in the overall numbers behind the ratings, but I think it would be best if each individual component was scored out of 25 points, coming to a maximum of 100 points total. Based off of that score, the curry could then be graded into the individual classes (Koffing, Wobbuffet, Milcery, Copperajah, and Charizard Classes)

I think the prizes could go something as follows: Maximum Rating would yield all 3 of the following: +3 levels, +1 Natural MT or EM, and +5 Bond. As the rating drops, maybe then you would have to pick only 1 or 2 of the aforementioned rewards. As such, I think it might be better if there are only 3 tiers of class ratings- maybe cut out the Koffing and Wobbuffet Classes. (Sorry MM)
Potential Concerns/Things that Might Need to be Discussed:
● Berry exploitation: I think we might need to raise the price of berries in the department store, specifically the Stat-Altering Berries (currently priced $50). These berries can yield the greatest value of flavor increments, and I think it would probably be fairest if they were raised to like $250 or else there could be a potential loophole for exploitation.
● Pokemon Movepools (or lack thereof): If a participating Pokemon isn’t suited to a particular action (for example, an Exeggcute might not have any attacks to Fan the Flames) you the trainer may step in to perform the action on your Pokemon’s behalf, though the value behind that action might be lower than if a Pokemon were performing it.
Some Examples of Pokemon Actions:
● Temperature: Low BP attacks like Gust or Ember might be good if used in conjunction with other trainers. Maybe using something like Hurricane or Fire Blast would be a terrible idea lol. If you think there might be too much heat, maybe you could lower the temperature with an Icy Wind or something.
● Texture: like temperature, it’ll be best to use attacks in moderation. Stuff like Whirlpool, Topsy-Turvy, Teeter Dance might be suited for setting the base while assisting with attacks like Flame Charge, Agility, Tailwind, or Helping Hand might help speed it up. Attacks that lower speed or make Pokemon drowsy might help in correcting the texture if it goes too fast.
● Passion: Just use whatever you think contributes the most affection and encouragement into the cooking. Stuff like Charm, Attract, Helping Hand, Work Up would work well here. Other stat-boosting attacks might help too but to a lesser degree.
I think that’s all I got for now, let me know what you all think. There would still have to be a lot more input, especially with specific scoring values. While I still have concerns about this turning into yet another shop to mark off the checklist in order to maximize your gains in FB, I think setting restrictions on the amount of berries being used and number of times you can attempt it per year, I think it can serve as a fun distraction that requires a lot of coordination and teamwork in order to succeed.
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Old 01-13-2021, 09:58 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
Getting Started: A person must participate with at least 1 Berry to offer as an ingredient as well as bring 1 Pokemon to assist with the cooking. You may contribute more than 1 Berry to the pot, but once the pot reaches 10 Berries (or some kind of time limit has passed) the cooking will begin. This means a maximum of 10 people may participate in a single cooking at a time. I think as a level of organization and balance, only 1 curry cooking may go on at a single time, and you may only participate in 1 curry cooking per month.
I think the idea of 10 people or after a pre-decided point in time from the sign-up sounds like a good idea - I think this combined with a one-curry a month limit would ensure that everybody interested would get a chance to get stuck in each calendar month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
I think the best way to score the curry is to break it down into 4 components:

1. Flavor
● Determined by the quality of berries used as ingredients, a cumulative value for each flavor type using the Gen. 4-8 flavor values.
● The quality of the curry lies in whether there is a dominant flavor, so as a result of competing flavors, the quality will in turn drop.
● If the dominant flavor has a cumulative value of at least 50 higher than the second highest flavor, the curry’s flavor will be Top Rating. If the difference between the dominant flavor and the second highest flavor is 25 or higher, it will be a Good Rating. If the difference between the highest and second highest flavor is less than 25, it will be a Poor Rating.
2. Temperature
● Determined by the quality of temperature in which the curry is cooked, a curry that is too hot will burn while one that is too cold won’t be cooked.
● ‘Fan the Flames’ portion of cooking, the temperature level must fall within a specific value range, exceeding that range positively or negatively will result in lowering the quality of the curry’s temperature rating.
● Fire or Wind-based attacks for example might raise the temperature while Ice attacks might lower it. Attacks that are too strong might do more harm than good.
3. Texture
● Determined by the quality of texture in which the curry is mixed, a curry that is too slowly will burn while one that is mixed too quickly will spill.
● ‘Give It a Good Stirring’ portion of cooking, the texture level must fall within a specific value range, exceeding that range positively or negatively will result in lowering the quality of the curry’s texture rating.
● Like Temperature, there could be an acceptable range of mixing speed to achieve Top Rating while falling outside of that range could negatively affect the rating.
4. Passion
● Determined by the amount of love that went into cooking the curry.
● ‘Put Your Heart Into It’ portion of cooking, the more affection that you give the cooking, the higher the rating will be.
● No upward boundary on how much affection you can give it. Not enough affection will result in a lower rating, however.
I like these four components as the backbone for things, gives more flexibility to the outcome as well as the system can't be exploited by knowing how to 'win' - particularly if people resort to stepping in to replace their Pokéchef.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
Rating the Curry & tiers of rewards:
Based on the cumulative ratings of Flavor, Temperature, Texture, and Passion, the curry will be graded. I haven’t put too much thought in the overall numbers behind the ratings, but I think it would be best if each individual component was scored out of 25 points, coming to a maximum of 100 points total. Based off of that score, the curry could then be graded into the individual classes (Koffing, Wobbuffet, Milcery, Copperajah, and Charizard Classes)

I think the prizes could go something as follows: Maximum Rating would yield all 3 of the following: +3 levels, +1 Natural MT or EM, and +5 Bond. As the rating drops, maybe then you would have to pick only 1 or 2 of the aforementioned rewards. As such, I think it might be better if there are only 3 tiers of class ratings- maybe cut out the Koffing and Wobbuffet Classes. (Sorry MM)
Three classes with three tiers of outcome would keep things more organised - perhaps we could mix things up here and go with 'mon with more of a connection to FB for the classes too.

I like the sound of the rewards too, given the highest tier will require a team of people to co-ordinate well to achieve such a result I think they seem balanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
Potential Concerns/Things that Might Need to be Discussed:
● Berry exploitation: I think we might need to raise the price of berries in the department store, specifically the Stat-Altering Berries (currently priced $50). These berries can yield the greatest value of flavor increments, and I think it would probably be fairest if they were raised to like $250 or else there could be a potential loophole for exploitation.
● Pokemon Movepools (or lack thereof): If a participating Pokemon isn’t suited to a particular action (for example, an Exeggcute might not have any attacks to Fan the Flames) you the trainer may step in to perform the action on your Pokemon’s behalf, though the value behind that action might be lower than if a Pokemon were performing it.
Makes sense to bump up the price of the berries if they end up having a more potent use in the meta, I wouldn't have any complaints with that and I'm sure others would be similarly unfazed. I really like the idea of helping your Pokémon companions too so I'd be all for that, even if it, like you say, shouldn't be as well received as the Pokémon itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
Some Examples of Pokemon Actions:
● Temperature: Low BP attacks like Gust or Ember might be good if used in conjunction with other trainers. Maybe using something like Hurricane or Fire Blast would be a terrible idea lol. If you think there might be too much heat, maybe you could lower the temperature with an Icy Wind or something.
● Texture: like temperature, it’ll be best to use attacks in moderation. Stuff like Whirlpool, Topsy-Turvy, Teeter Dance might be suited for setting the base while assisting with attacks like Flame Charge, Agility, Tailwind, or Helping Hand might help speed it up. Attacks that lower speed or make Pokemon drowsy might help in correcting the texture if it goes too fast.
● Passion: Just use whatever you think contributes the most affection and encouragement into the cooking. Stuff like Charm, Attract, Helping Hand, Work Up would work well here. Other stat-boosting attacks might help too but to a lesser degree.
Love the idea of different moves having different effects on the curry in-progress as well as the overall outcome - people would need to get creative in their strategies and it'd push people and their teams in a unique way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
While I still have concerns about this turning into yet another shop to mark off the checklist in order to maximize your gains in FB, I think setting restrictions on the amount of berries being used and number of times you can attempt it per year, I think it can serve as a fun distraction that requires a lot of coordination and teamwork in order to succeed.
I think with the correct limits set and the coordinative nature of the idea, this experience could feel much more like an alternative to raids or a zone adventure than your run-of-the-mill shop - I can already people picture strategizing to get their mitts on the tastiest dish.

Don't really feel like I have much more to add to this outside of support for the idea ^^
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:52 AM   #30
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Just giving my quick thoughts here but I am in agreement with PP here. The system looks fun and interesting, and I'm all for people having another avenue for roleplay with their Pokemon.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:15 PM   #31
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I still feel like we might be making things a bit more complicated than they need to be by turning the system into essentially another "Raid" mechanic but that's me selfishly talking from an Updator's perspective. If we are going all out with this, then one idea I have is that Attacks can also contribute to the flavor based on what Contest category they fall under. (Unfortunately this excludes newer Moves, but then in that case it could be up to Updator discretion to keep things more of a surprise?) Contest combos could even play a part to provide extra boosts, perhaps.

I just want Contests back can you tell OTL
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:30 PM   #32
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I'm going to be blunt. If this is just going to turn into a "How can we make Contests a thing again?" mechanic, I'm going to pull the plug in this development. The initial cause for implementation was addressing a surplus of berries and using current generational mechanics to alleviate that issue as well as provide additional RPing/training opportunities for trainers. If I ever see that development for anything in FB is driven by personal goals or interests rather than benefiting the game as a whole, it probably shouldn't be implemented.
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Old 01-13-2021, 03:54 PM   #33
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Adding in contest typing to moves in this is making it too complicated just from a design standpoint. Mostly because whoever's updating would then have to check an additional reference.

If a move would effect the flavor of the curry... I'd say leave it up to updater discretion.

Though applying a bit logic/common sense comes to the conclusion of: don't do things that will ruin the dish or the activity in most situations such as throwing a Toxic in there or using Explosion.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:23 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandaa View Post
I'm going to be blunt. If this is just going to turn into a "How can we make Contests a thing again?" mechanic, I'm going to pull the plug in this development. The initial cause for implementation was addressing a surplus of berries and using current generational mechanics to alleviate that issue as well as provide additional RPing/training opportunities for trainers. If I ever see that development for anything in FB is driven by personal goals or interests rather than benefiting the game as a whole, it probably shouldn't be implemented.
...That was not my intention, so I'll be blunt as well and elaborate further.

My first concern right now is that we're moving further and further away from the original concept of a simple "berry dump" into something more needlessly complex and increasingly dependent on subjective factors. So, in keeping with that complexity whilst also trying to simplify things from a mathematical perspective, utilizing Contest categories as a starting base guideline seems like a fair compromise. My main gripe with Raids right now is feeling "pigeonholed" into using the same Attack over and over just because it's the most effective damage-wise, so if we're going to turn this into something similar I'd like it to be more in line with Contests where variety and creativity are rewarded. I don't want people to feel like they're limited to just using a particular range of Attacks/Types and if their 'mon doesn't know certain good Moves then they can't contribute as much. I understand the examples given were already meant to be as inclusive as possible, but would prefer to see it opened up further so that any kind of action can have a significant effect on the outcome, but people will also have to keep in mind balancing different flavors and ensure their orders work well together, whether on a group or individual basis.

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Adding in contest typing to moves in this is making it too complicated just from a design standpoint. Mostly because whoever's updating would then have to check an additional reference.

If a move would effect the flavor of the curry... I'd say leave it up to updater discretion.

Though applying a bit logic/common sense comes to the conclusion of: don't do things that will ruin the dish or the activity in most situations such as throwing a Toxic in there or using Explosion.
From an Updator's standpoint, I think it'd be a lot clearer to have a set standard to reference rather than trying to determine how each Move affects things individually. "Appeal" points can easily be converted and calculated into something manageable as opposed to assigning arbitrary "values" and forcing the Updator to personally judge whether everything measures up or not. I'd like to leave as little room for numerical bias as possible, basically.

Edit- At any rate, what was meant to just be a throwaway joke aside, to summarize my stance on the matter: If we're going to expand Curry Cooking to such an extent, I'd like to see the structure lean more towards Contests than Raids in the sense of allowing more freedom of Move selection, but also bearing in mind the "burden" on the Updator to keep track of it all. The rapid-fire structure of Raid battles benefits from generally adhering to the games' formulas, so if an established system exists within the games that can be adapted and also applied to Curry then may as well make use of it to streamline the process. (Frankly if I had wanted to turn Curry Cooking into FB Contests completely then I would've advocated for a more freeform approach where the host is indeed the sole judge of "quality", but I want to keep things impartial and the logic behind the results straightforward/upfront.)

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 01-14-2021 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 01-14-2021, 05:41 PM   #35
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So, moving on since maybe I'm the only one being paranoid and overthinking things when folks are fine with the Updator calling all the shots through guesstimation like with Zone Adventures, I did have another thought regarding the "putting one's heart into it" portion: Since "heart" is kind of a vague concept, perhaps this could be dependent on RP effort? I didn't bring it up initially since I myself am not a big fan of the idea of making RP seem like a "requirement" to do well (and Emp's recent post in the Misc. Ideas thread only reaffirms that sentiment), but I know it's been suggested here before that rewards should indeed be earned through RP so figured I'd throw it out there to see how others feel about the proposal. If an RP factor is implemented I'd obviously like it to be a low threshold so people don't feel pressured to meet it, acting more as an extra bonus that can easily be made up by succeeding at the other cooking sections.
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Old 01-19-2021, 05:37 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilboocorsola View Post
Since "heart" is kind of a vague concept, perhaps this could be dependent on RP effort? I didn't bring it up initially since I myself am not a big fan of the idea of making RP seem like a "requirement" to do well (and Emp's recent post in the Misc. Ideas thread only reaffirms that sentiment), but I know it's been suggested here before that rewards should indeed be earned through RP so figured I'd throw it out there to see how others feel about the proposal. If an RP factor is implemented I'd obviously like it to be a low threshold so people don't feel pressured to meet it, acting more as an extra bonus that can easily be made up by succeeding at the other cooking sections.
I personally think this sort of activity would be the perfect opportunity for roleplay, particularly the rounds that require more 'effort' on behalf of the participants. I don't think it should be mandated but I think it should have an effect on the overall outcome if people don't try when it counts. Given the sort of suggested prizes, I think it'd only be fair - particularly if Bond or/and $250 could be claimed in the usual way (if it could for this shop, anyway - not sure if this has come up in regards to this feature)

---

Bit of an aside to things and may not ultimately be of any use but I made a few notes after finding myself reading over things again and trying to think up a simple system for executing something like this -
Example scoring system (10 participants)
Flavour
Berries can give up to 50 points based on the combination - each berry would require its own score for this, could be translated from existing rarities/price tiers (though they’d probably all need to be bumped up in price, as Gary says)

Temperature, texture & passion
5 points available per round per ‘mon with a total of 150 points maximum for the following three subjective rounds - these could be judged by a panel to seek an average score if it didn’t require too much work (reading over each participant's four posts/decisions and scoring them out of 5 over the course of several weeks)

Divide final score by two to get class:
85-100 points = top class
70-85 points = mid class
55-70 points = low class

This is just a bit of an example and nothing serious so these numbers are all very rough and would require ten participants to take part the whole time - I just thought it might inspire some more discussion on things, particularly given the subjective nature of certain rounds ^^
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Old 01-19-2021, 06:34 PM   #37
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Sounds good but obviously it's gonna need to scale. 10 participants I feel is unrealistic, it's more likely to be around 4. We can nick the berry odds-and-sods and wrangle it to work.

A part of me wants to push for having poffin/pokeblock making as a purely aesthetic alternative to curry (same system, same rewards, just a different food made), but that may be a little much for what we have atm.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:01 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Pearl's Perap View Post
I personally think this sort of activity would be the perfect opportunity for roleplay, particularly the rounds that require more 'effort' on behalf of the participants. I don't think it should be mandated but I think it should have an effect on the overall outcome if people don't try when it counts. Given the sort of suggested prizes, I think it'd only be fair - particularly if Bond or/and $250 could be claimed in the usual way (if it could for this shop, anyway - not sure if this has come up in regards to this feature)
While I agree this sort of setting likely lends itself easier to RPing than Raids, some people just don't have the time to RP every reply on a weekly basis (self included normally), so I'd like to be lenient in this regard.

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Temperature, texture & passion
5 points available per round per ‘mon with a total of 150 points maximum for the following three subjective rounds - these could be judged by a panel to seek an average score if it didn’t require too much work (reading over each participant's four posts/decisions and scoring them out of 5 over the course of several weeks)
I think having a panel of judges would make things more fair, if a bit harder to coordinate. I've been working under the assumption this would be a one-man operation (namely by myself, which is why I was hesitant at the idea of increasing the workload/responsibility beyond just crunching some numbers >>; ), but would definitely be down for making it a joint effort. On that note, I guess I'd like to ask: Who here is interested in helping to run this?

(Note: Given the subjective nature of certain rounds, judges probably shouldn't be allowed to participate, so we'd also need reserves/a rotating panel if someone wants to jump in themselves.)

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Sounds good but obviously it's gonna need to scale. 10 participants I feel is unrealistic, it's more likely to be around 4. We can nick the berry odds-and-sods and wrangle it to work.
Maybe max out the number of participants at 8 like with Raids? (Or just forego a limit and adjust the scaling system as necessary.) I expect a fair number of people to flock in at the beginning but as time goes on and Berry stashes dwindle so too will the activity levels.

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A part of me wants to push for having poffin/pokeblock making as a purely aesthetic alternative to curry (same system, same rewards, just a different food made), but that may be a little much for what we have atm.
I wouldn't mind this but I've already shot myself in the foot regarding Contest-related things so I'll just keep my mouth shut now. 8)
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
Sounds good but obviously it's gonna need to scale. 10 participants I feel is unrealistic, it's more likely to be around 4. We can nick the berry odds-and-sods and wrangle it to work.
Of course, I think I went with ten with an image of two sessions running a month in my head - not necessarily suggesting that this be a requirement or anything, as I say it was more to imagine how things could operate

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While I agree this sort of setting likely lends itself easier to RPing than Raids, some people just don't have the time to RP every reply on a weekly basis (self included normally), so I'd like to be lenient in this regard.
I’m thinking more just people interacting with their ‘mon and the curry and/or other participants - nothing more than 50 words at a push and optional

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I think having a panel of judges would make things more fair, if a bit harder to coordinate. I've been working under the assumption this would be a one-man operation (namely by myself, which is why I was hesitant at the idea of increasing the workload/responsibility beyond just crunching some numbers >>; ), but would definitely be down for making it a joint effort. On that note, I guess I'd like to ask: Who here is interested in helping to run this?

(Note: Given the subjective nature of certain rounds, judges probably shouldn't be allowed to participate, so we'd also need reserves/a rotating panel if someone wants to jump in themselves.)
Totally agree on judges being absent from the taking part in the dish, might mean the activity lends itself to smaller groups so that they can participate too if they so wish. I’d be happy to offer some assistance with the panel or something similar either way, particularly if it was something that would help to make the offering more ‘fair’

Quote:
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Maybe max out the number of participants at 8 like with Raids? (Or just forego a limit and adjust the scaling system as necessary.) I expect a fair number of people to flock in at the beginning but as time goes on and Berry stashes dwindle so too will the activity levels.
I think that sounds fair enough, having a system that will scale up or down based on participants would definitely be the best idea too
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Old 05-25-2021, 07:04 PM   #40
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I don't really have much to add, but I wanted to bump this just because I've thought about curry cooking over the past few days. I really like the idea of it being another consistent way to interact and bond with your Pokémon and other players that is outside of raids and adventures.
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Old 05-25-2021, 08:39 PM   #41
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Thanks for the bump. Curry hasn't exactly been a major concern on my mind with everything going on over the past month, but it's still something I'd like to see come to life.

I guess to start with, I want to revisit clarification of the basic format since it's what kinda killed discussion last time.

1) Should RP be required and/or affect the final score?

2) Would folks feel more comfortable with scoring being based on a strictly numbers-based system like Raids, or allow for subjective judging like in FFF or old-style Contests?

My worry with the latter is that one person making judgment calls can lead to conflict when a participant feels their intent has been misinterpreted, as already seen again in FFF. I'm really curious to hear other people's thoughts on this matter, since I imagine it would likely influence how Contests would operate as well should they make a return.

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 05-25-2021 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 05-25-2021, 09:15 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by lilboocorsola View Post
Thanks for the bump. Curry hasn't exactly been a major concern on my mind with everything going on over the past month, but it's still something I'd like to see come to life.

I guess to start with, I want to revisit clarification of the basic format since it's what kinda killed discussion last time.

1) Should RP be required and/or affect the final score?

2) Would folks feel more comfortable with scoring being based on a strictly numbers-based system like Raids, or allow for subjective judging like in FFF or old-style Contests?

My worry with the latter is that one person making judgment calls can lead to conflict when a participant feels their intent has been misinterpreted, as already seen again in FFF. I'm really curious to hear other people's thoughts on this matter, since I imagine it would likely influence how Contests would operate as well should they make a return.
1) I thought about this, and I don't think RP should be required just due to how busy life can get. I don't think anyone should be excluded just because they're schedules are full, burnout, etc. However, I don't think I'd mind it if RP had an affect on the final score, however, I do think that the word count threshold should be lowered. Something short and sweet, perhaps within even 50-100 words. But that's just me.

2) I agree that a subjective system could be problematic. I noticed during FFF that updaters sometimes interpreted the same move in the same situation differently; some would see it as advantageous while others would see it as something more neutral, for example. Personally, I think I would prefer a strictly numbers-based system.
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Old 05-25-2021, 09:27 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by SpinyShell View Post
1) I thought about this, and I don't think RP should be required just due to how busy life can get. I don't think anyone should be excluded just because they're schedules are full, burnout, etc. However, I don't think I'd mind it if RP had an affect on the final score, however, I do think that the word count threshold should be lowered. Something short and sweet, perhaps within even 50-100 words. But that's just me.

2) I agree that a subjective system could be problematic. I noticed during FFF that updaters sometimes interpreted the same move in the same situation differently; some would see it as advantageous while others would see it as something more neutral, for example. Personally, I think I would prefer a strictly numbers-based system.
1) In agreement here, hence why I suggested RP could fill in for the "putting your Heart in" portion if we include it to give an extra boost to those who go the extra mile. Would be fine with lowering the word count threshold as well, so long as it doesn't have too much overall impact on the final score to allow for full points to be achievable either way.

2) For full disclosure, there were some complaints brought up over Discord when a player's plan went awry during FFF, hence my further hesitation to implement that sort of subjective judging method here. This seems like it'd be an especially tricky issue when it comes to group efforts, as I don't want any one member to feel like they've accidentally sabotaged their team without meaning to.
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Old 05-25-2021, 10:17 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by lilboocorsola View Post


2) For full disclosure, there were some complaints brought up over Discord when a player's plan went awry during FFF, hence my further hesitation to implement that sort of subjective judging method here. This seems like it'd be an especially tricky issue when it comes to group efforts, as I don't want any one member to feel like they've accidentally sabotaged their team without meaning to.
As this point's possible Exhibit A*, all I can say is that adding Smelling Salts to a curry sounds like a terrible idea anyway! (^u^;
*Technically somebody else brought it up, but it was my order and I was involved with the ensuing discussion, so...

On a more serious note, having this step be subjective doesn't seem like the greatest idea to me. The Fizzy Fright Fest marked the second time my idea of how a move worked didn't line up with the updator's idea (though it was admittedly the first time that the difference mattered), and since we now have some folks who are new to the franchise as a whole, similar scenarios are bound to crop up eventually. And while I doubt other people would react as poorly to letting their team down for something seemingly beyond their control as I did during the War of the Roses, they're still bound to be pretty unhappy about the situation.

The question at that point comes down to how we classify moves in terms of being objective. What's the effective scaling for them, for example? I don't imagine it'd be a simple task to pull off, ya know?
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Old 05-26-2021, 12:31 AM   #45
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The question at that point comes down to how we classify moves in terms of being objective. What's the effective scaling for them, for example? I don't imagine it'd be a simple task to pull off, ya know?
This is why I originally suggested utilizing the in-game Contest category system for Attacks as a base which I didn't have time to fully explain my reasoning for then and thus was misconstrued as a result. Although again this does unfortunately leave out newer Moves, but it's a starting point.
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Old 05-27-2021, 11:04 AM   #46
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So my thoughts on the matter. (I didn't see this was bumped until today oof)

1) I do think that RP should be encouraged but not required. If it happens, it can provide a small boost to the overall score but shouldn't be required for a perfect score.

2) Yeah I feel FFF proved subjective judging shouldn't be a thing for something like this. There were arguments in mod chat about scores for people as well, which caused disagreements on things due to how the guidelines were interpreted. I do think a by the numbers points system would be fairer, and while using contest moves as a base could work we only have until Gen 6. (Even so BDSP might rectify it for most of the moves from 7 and 8, some new 7 moves aren't in 8 [Looking at you Spotlight]).

I do feel that we should get this discussion wrapped up before August/September though. A proposal shouldn't be in limbo for a year, regardless of the outcome. We should probably look to outline an OP and a draft of the mechanics in the immediate future. WIll be sticking thread
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Old 05-29-2021, 04:58 PM   #47
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throwing my two cents in, I'm in favor of a number system rather than based on the judge's perspective. RP can be thrown in and I feel a small boost is ok but RPing shouldn't make or break a score like previously stated.
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:40 PM   #48
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All right, been thinking about this and going to try and come up with a rough outline of how this could work.

First, Curry will operate on a monthly basis. At the start of each month, members will have a week to post their Berry contributions, specifying whether they want to cook solo or participate in a group cookout. A group can have up to five people, with a max of five Berries in the pot no matter the number of participants. Borrowing from my original proposal, the flavor of the Curry will then depend on most predominant type of Berry added, or randomly selected out of types added if all different flavors.

From here, there will be two phases, each lasting approximately 10 days (to give players time to RP if they so choose, with short stock or else likely limited detail Updates in between). Players can order one Attack per phase. Rather than restricting to just "Fanning the Flames" and "Stirring the Pot" though, I'd like to suggest we go with a more general "Preparation Stage" and "Cooking Stage" to allow for more imaginative options. Basically, the first phase will be prepping the ingredients, equipment, etc. Second will then consist of fanning, stirring, and any other suitable actions needed to make the meal.

Now, talking mechanics/maths. I still say it's best to use this flavor chart on Bulbapedia since it includes every single Berry to date. We can divide the numbers by five for each individual Berry (so 1x Cheri Berry would be +2, and 5x Cheri Berries is +10 towards Spicy Flavor.) Once the overall flavor is established, Attacks will then affect the score based on corresponding Contest category. Compatible Moves will be awarded +1 extra point, and Incompatible Moves will be docked -1. Ex: Using a "Cool" Move with a base of four Appeal Points will add +5 to a Spicy dish, "Beautiful" or "Tough" Moves with the same base Appeal will add +4, and "Clever" or "Cute" Moves +3. RPing a post will also add +1 bonus point, for a maximum bonus of +10 (if a full squad of five) incorporating both rounds.

The quality grades of the final Curry will then be counted as follows (subject to change):

Koffing Class: 10-19
Wobbuffet Class: 20-29
Milcery Class: 30-39
Copperajah Class: 40-49
Charizard Class: 50+

We can tweak the totals/work out what each tier rewards in further discussions, but for now I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this sort of system. I tried to keep it as simple and open-ended as possible. 50 points is probably a pretty easy bar to clear if working together as a team, but I think it would simultaneously relax the RP "requirement" to do well + encourage folks to see this as more of a free RP opportunity to experiment and come up with creative methods of using Moves, rather than utilizing the most effective one on paper every time to maximize benefits. (*That said, I think we should ban the usage of Moves that cause the user to faint despite their typically high Appeal status, since that's not what this is about lol.)

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Old 05-31-2021, 09:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by lilboocorsola View Post
All right, been thinking about this and going to try and come up with a rough outline of how this could work.

First, Curry will operate on a monthly basis. At the start of each month, members will have a week to post their Berry contributions, specifying whether they want to cook solo or participate in a group cookout. A group can have up to five people, with a max of five Berries in the pot no matter the number of participants. Borrowing from my original proposal, the flavor of the Curry will then depend on most predominant type of Berry added, or randomly selected out of types added if all different flavors.

From here, there will be two phases, each lasting approximately 10 days (to give players time to RP if they so choose, with short stock or else likely limited detail Updates in between). Players can order one Attack per phase. Rather than restricting to just "Fanning the Flames" and "Stirring the Pot" though, I'd like to suggest we go with a more general "Preparation Stage" and "Cooking Stage" to allow for more imaginative options. Basically, the first phase will be prepping the ingredients, equipment, etc. Second will then consist of fanning, stirring, and any other suitable actions needed to make the meal.

Now, talking mechanics/maths. I still say it's best to use this flavor chart on Bulbapedia since it includes every single Berry to date. We can divide the numbers by five for each individual Berry (so 1x Cheri Berry would be +2, and 5x Cheri Berries is +10 towards Spicy Flavor.) Once the overall flavor is established, Attacks will then affect the score based on corresponding Contest category. Compatible Moves will be awarded +1 extra point, and Incompatible Moves will be docked -1. Ex: Using a "Cool" Move with a base of four Appeal Points will add +5 to a Spicy dish, "Beautiful" or "Tough" Moves with the same base Appeal will add +4, and "Clever" or "Cute" Moves +3. RPing a post will also add +1 bonus point, for a maximum bonus of +10 (if a full squad of five) incorporating both rounds.

The quality grades of the final Curry will then be counted as follows (subject to change):

Koffing Class: 10-19
Wobbuffet Class: 20-29
Milcery Class: 30-39
Copperajah Class: 40-49
Charizard Class: 50+

We can tweak the totals/work out what each tier rewards in further discussions, but for now I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this sort of system. I tried to keep it as simple and open-ended as possible. 50 points is probably a pretty easy bar to clear if working together as a team, but I think it would simultaneously relax the RP "requirement" to do well + encourage folks to see this as more of a free RP opportunity to experiment and come up with creative methods of using Moves, rather than utilizing the most effective one on paper every time to maximize benefits. (*That said, I think we should ban the usage of Moves that cause the user to faint despite their typically high Appeal status, since that's not what this is about lol.)
Looked it over, and it looks good to me.

Also, I assigned Contest categories to all gen 7 and 8 moves, including the Z-moves, G/Dmax moves, and partner moves, for another project. I thought I'd drop them here in case you guys want to look them over and include them that way people have a wider variety of moves to use without having to use TMs, the move tutor, etc.

Edit: They don't have appeal points assigned, but maybe we could base the amount of appeal points on base power thresholds. For non-damaging moves maybe we can just apply a blanket base appeal of 2 to all of them. That is, if you guys want to implement these moves.

Gen 7
Spoiler: show

Z-moves
Spoiler: show

10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt: cool
Castropika: cute
Stoked Sparksurfer: cute
Extreme Evoboost: cute
Pulverizing Pancake: tough
Genesis Supernova: clever
Sinister Arrow Raid: cool
Malicious Moonsault: tough
Oceanic Operetta: beauty
Splintered Stormshards: cool
Let’s Snuggle Forever: cute
Clangorous Soulblaze: beauty
Guardian of Alola: beauty
Searing Sunraze Smash: beauty
Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom: beauty
Light That Burns The Sky: beauty
Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike: clever
Breakneck Blitz: tough
All-out Pummeling: tough
Supersonic Skystrike: tough
Acid Downpour: beauty
Tectonic Rage: tough
Continental Crush: tough
Savage Spin-Out: clever
Never-Ending Nightmare: cool
Corkscrew Crash: clever
Inferno Overdrive: cool
Hydro Vortex: clever
Bloom Doom: cute
Gigavolt Havoc: cool
Shattered Psyche: cool
Subzero Slammer: beauty
Black Hole Eclipse: clever
Twinkle Tackle: cute

Let's Go Partner moves
Spoiler: show

Baddy Bad: cool
Bouncy Bubble: beauty
Buzzy Buzz: clever
Floaty Fall: clever
Freezy Frost: tough
Glitzy Glow: cool
Pika Papow: cute
Sappy Seed: beauty
Sizzly Slide: tough
Sparkly Swirl: cute
Splishy Splash: cool
Veevee Volley: cute
Zippy Zap: clever

Regular Gen 7 moves
Spoiler: show

Accelerock: cool
Anchor Shot: tough
Aurora Veil: beauty
Baneful Bunker: clever
Beak Blast: cool
Brutal Swing: tough
Burn Up: cool
Clanging Scales: beauty
Core Enforcer: cool
Darkest Lariat: tough
Double Iron Bash: tough
Dragon Hammer: tough
Fire Lash: tough
First Impression: cool
Fleur Cannon: beauty
Floral Healing: cute
Gear Up: clever
High Horsepower: tough
Ice Hammer: tough
Instruct: clever
Laser Focus: clever
Leafage: cute
Liquidation: cool
Lunge: tough
Mind Blown: beauty
Moongeist Beam: beauty
Multi-Attack: clever
Nature’s Madness: beauty
Photon Geyser: beauty
Plasma Fists: tough
Pollen Puff: cute
Power Trip: cool
Prismatic Laser: beauty
Psychic Fangs: tough
Psychic Terrain: clever
Purify: cute
Revelation Dance: beauty
Shadow Bone: beauty
Shell Trap: cool
Shore Up: clever
Smart Strike: clever
Solar Blade: cool
Sparkling Aria: beauty
Spectral Thief: clever
Speed Swap: clever
Spirit Shackle: cool
Spotlight: cute
Stomping Tantrum: cute
Strength Sap: clever
Sunsteel Strike: beauty
Tearful Look: cute
Throat Chop: tough
Toxic Thread: cool
Trop Kick: beauty
Zing Zap: cool


Gen 8
Spoiler: show

G/Dmax moves
Spoiler: show

G-Max Befuddle: cute
G-Max Cannonade: beauty
G-Max Centiferno: cool
G-Max Chi Strike: tough
G-Max Cuddle: cute
G-Max Depletion: tough
G-Max Drum Solo: cool
G-Max Finale: beauty
G-Max Fireball: cool
G-Max Foam Burst: cool
G-Max Gold Rush: cute
G-Max Gravitas: clever
G-Max Hydrosnipe: clever
G-Max Malodor: tough
G-Max Meltdown: cool
G-Max One Blow: tough
G-Max Rapid Flow: tough
G-Max Replenish: cute
G-Max Resonance: beauty
G-Max Sandblast: tough
G-Max Smite: beauty
G-Max Snooze: cool
G-Max Steelsurge: tough
G-Max Stonesurge: tough
G-Max Stun Shock: cool
G-Max Sweetness: cute
G-Max Tartness: cute
G-Max Terror: cool
G-Max Vine Lash: cool
G-Max Volcalith: tough
G-Max Volt Crash: cool
G-Max Wildfire: cool
G-Max Wind Rage: beauty
Max Airstream: cool
Max Darkness: cool
Max Flare: beauty
Max Flutterby: cute
Max Geyser: beauty
Max Guard: clever
Max Hailstorm: beauty
Max Knuckle: tough
Max Lightning: cool
Max Mindstorm: clever
Max Ooze: clever
Max Overgrowth: beauty
Max Phantasm: clever
Max Quake: tough
Max Rockfall: tough
Max Starfall: cute
Max Steelspike: tough
Max Strike: cute
Max Wyrmwind: beauty

Regular Gen 8 moves
Spoiler: show

Apple Acid: clever
Aura Wheel: cute
Behemoth Bash: cool
Behemoth Blade: cool
Body Press: tough
Bolt Beak: cute
Branch Poke: cute
Breaking Swipe: tough
Burning Jealousy: cool
Clangorous Soul: beauty
Coaching: clever
Corrosive Gas: tough
Court Change: clever
Decorate: cute
Dragon Darts: cool
Dragon Energy: cool
Drum Beating: beauty
Dual Wingbeat: tough
Dynamax Cannon: cool
Eerie Spell: clever
Eternabeam: cool
Expanding Force: tough
False Surrender: tough
Fiery Wrath: cool
Fishious Rend: tough
Flip Turn: clever
Freezing Glare: cool
Grassy Glide: cute
Grav Apple: clever
Jaw Lock: tough
Jungle Healing: beauty
Lash Out: tough
Life Dew: beauty
Magic Powder: clever
Meteor Assault: tough
Meteor Beam: cool
Misty Explosion: beauty
No Retreat: tough
Obstruct: cool
Octolock: tough
Overdrive: cool
Poltergeist: cute
Pyro Ball: cool
Rising Voltage: clever
Scale Shot: tough
Scorching Sands: tough
Shell Side Arm: cool
Skitter Smack: cute
Snap Trap: tough
Snipe Shot: cool
Spirit Break: tough
Steel Beam: beauty
Steel Roller: tough
Strange Steam: clever
Stuff Cheeks: cute
Surging Strikes: cool
Tar Shot: tough
Teatime: cute
Terrain Pulse: clever
Thunder Cage: cool
Thunderous Kick: cool
Triple Axel: tough
Wicked Blow: tough

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Old 06-01-2021, 08:23 AM   #50
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I'd be hesitant about assigning contest stats to new moves for now, since the Gen IV remakes are coming out later just this year, and it's possible we will have contest stats for them at that point. Like ORAS did with Megas, it's even possible that Dynamax will be included in Super Contests this time

The proposal in general seems fine, lilboo. Although I would like to add, honestly mostly for flavour, the option for main ingredients, like Fancy Apples, Pre-cooked Burgers, etc. This could literally just be randomly posting one, or a small list of ones, in the month's opening so that people can choose from them. Or even just letting each group choose from any of them each month. It's not something that would do much, but it would add some fun, and I would not be surprised if there's some folks who want to do a CurryDex.

Just my initial thoughts here
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