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Old 04-16-2017, 12:05 PM   #51
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:08 PM   #52
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Yes, it is.

If you commit murder twice in your life, using the first murder as an excuse to make the second murder's sentence longer is double jeopardy. Because you are applying the second sentence's conviction + interest from the first, which is, in fact, further punishing the original sentence. You can't do that.
what the fuck NO this isn't how it works in real life!

Double Jeopardy means that if you are ACQUITTED, you cannot be tried again for the same crime if new evidence emerges.

"If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit." Jury acquits.

Someone finds evidence that proves OJ guilty. Can you try him again? No. Because that would be double jeopardy.

Double Jeopardy does NOT mean that if you are tried and found guilty of a crime, and then you get out of prison and commit the crime again, that you can't do anything special about the new crime. That is Grade A Stupid. If you're still murdering people after 20 years in prison for murdering people....MAYBE? YOU SHOULD BE IN JAIL FOR A LITTLE LONGER?
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:20 PM   #53
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Dopple's point of view is actually not exactly original. Not that I really agree, just saying.
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Old 04-16-2017, 04:19 PM   #54
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Dopple's point of view is actually not exactly original. Not that I really agree, just saying.
And from the opening text of that very essay:
"One of the most common reasons for a sentencing enhancement is that the defendant has a prior conviction."
I can't stress this enough. It isn't only something that happens, it's something that happens regularly.

Continuing, the essayists write:
"Courts have rejected claims that these recidivism enhancements violate the prohibition against double jeopardy. They have explained that the Double Jeopardy Clause does not prohibit the legislature from authorizing multiple punishments for one offense and that, in any event, the Double Jeopardy Clause does not apply at sentencing."
Case. closed.

We can debate the morality and the philosophy all we like, but as far as "Did Talon have the right understanding or did Doppel?", we're fucking done here.

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How can you say, "This doesn't happen in real courts" when prior convictions is 100% a thing that the courts look at when deciding how to sentence someone? "I didn't say sentencing, I said conviction" you might say ... but that's the thing: if you're going to focus on convicting rather than sentencing then you've improperly responded to MtG to begin with. MtG's quoted paragraph is totally describing sentencing here (an escalation of punishment meted out in response to a current offense and in light of prior offenses), not conviction (determining a party's innocence or guilt in some matter).
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"Double jeopardy" is being tried for the exact same instance of a crime twice. "Double jeopardy" is not being tried for the same general crime twice, nor is it what you've quoted me discussing -- which was judges using a person's prior convictions, or "priors", to determine appropriate sentencing.
Done. Done, done, done, done, done. Debate the ethics of this convention all you like. Join with the essayists and argue that the courts have got it all wrong, that we need to seriously rethink our criminal justice system. But I think I am at the very least owed a simple acknowledgement that my interpretation of how the law is carried out was, for at least some if not for most U.S. jurisdictions, correct.
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:59 PM   #55
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:12 PM   #56
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same
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:14 PM   #57
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Okay we've strayed waaaaay off topic at this point. I'm just going to close this for now. If you feel like debating the ethics of rule enforcement on a Pokémon Internet forum, please take it to the appropriate subforum.
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