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Old 06-11-2015, 11:17 PM   #1
Talon87
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WebM file support

Is it possible for us to get a [webm] tag which would allow us to embed .webm files in our posts the same way we can use the [img] tag to embed .gif files in our posts? WebM files are much smaller than GIFs while maintaining same or superior visual quality and duration. For example, a 40-megabyte animated GIF can be represented in under 1 megabyte by the WebM format.

There is an official vBulletin thread for this topic. I am not sure if his code is the No.1 undisputed best or not, given the lack of replies to the thread and the lack of votes coupled with the same issues besetting the other threads on their forum plus the lack of any obvious competitor threads. (I did check out the HTML5 thread but that seemed to strictly deal with HTML5 video and audio and did not appear to touch on GIF format replacements like WebM.) However, if this guy's code looks good to you and if it does the job, then can we implement it? Or is it only compatible with v.4.0+ of vBulletin forum software?

Comparison: traditional GIF (6.90 MB), WebM file (1.19 MB), alternative host's conversion from GIF to WebM (535 KB)

As you can see from the comparison provided just now, file extensions would need to be taken into consideration. For example, ".gifv" appears to be Imgur's own in-house take on what movie-ified GIF files should be called, but when you save the file to your hard drive it still saves as a .webm file all the same, reflecting that .webm appears to be the consensus file extension name. If we do incorporate a [webm] tag, it'd be prudent to have it recognize file paths ending in .gifv (and other possible popular extension names) and not just .webm, the same way that [img] doesn't freak out when you put a .jpg at the end versus a .png versus a .gif, etc.

Note: in the comparison provided above, you will have to right click and save the video file in order to save the .webm to your computer and see the true file size. If you click on the "Download" link that Imgur has provided, it will download for you the file I originally uploaded -- which in this case is the 6.90-megabyte GIF.

Some of the most popular images on the net right now only exist in .webm format, as they would be far too large and/or would have to be rendered far too ugly if they were uploaded as GIFs. Our community is missing out on great opportunities to spice up our posts with these images, and I suspect we will only continue to miss out more heavily as the format gains wider-spread adoption.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:47 PM   #2
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My browser doesn't seem to support these, so it would just be an annoyance. :V
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Morg View Post
My browser doesn't seem to support these, so it would just be an annoyance. :V
Q1. Does your browser not support HTML5? You're in for a world of hurt that goes far beyond "annoyance" if it doesn't.

Q2. How old is your browser? And why can't you get a newer one if age is the issue? My computer's eight years old now and even I have a browser that supports these file formats. (Good ol' Firefox.)
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:22 AM   #4
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Just btw if you go to to the gfycat page rather than the direct image, like this one, it tells you there itself how much bandwidth was saved.

And yeah, webms, gfys, gifvs etc are getting larger and larger, and let's face it gif has been outdated ever since youtube existed, just that nobody bothered to make the technology to integrate it into everything till now. If this is indeed possible to do on VB, then it'd be a pretty cool change.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:34 AM   #5
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Nope, and nothing of value has been lost. Keep that HTML5 garbage out of UPN.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:38 AM   #6
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Sorry, but it's nobody's fault but yours if the world passes you by for an infinitely better standard.
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Morg View Post
Nope, and nothing of value has been lost. Keep that HTML5 garbage out of UPN.
I wouldn't call it garbage. And even if that is your belief ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
HTML5 is intended to subsume not only HTML 4, but also XHTML 1 and DOM Level 2 HTML.
... I don't know that you have much say in the matter if you wish to continue to browse the Internet beyond 2020. Google is leading the charge in HTML5 adoption, making use of their immensely popular YouTube property to bit by bit migrate society away from one shackled to proprietary plug-in technologies like Flash and Java to one which can find its entire toolkit within the native browser language of HTML. While most videos on YouTube are still in either .flv or .mp4 format, most/all new uploads also have HTML5 versions and it's believed that .flv will eventually be phased out entirely.

It's hard to deny that Google's influence is both large and wide. They are not the be-all, end-all for the Internet ... but they're as prime a mover as is Microsoft. Indeed, I'd draw a lot of comparisons between HTML5 adoption and Google in 2015 with HTML4 adoption and Microsoft in 1998. (I still remember when "HTML4" was a thing people said!)
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:41 AM   #8
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Works on my fairly new computer, absolutely no material benefit, go crazy.
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:10 AM   #9
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Given that not everyone has good internet it might be pretty useful the next time UPN goes gif-happy. It would also allow people to post actually decent quality and/or long gifs...

...Is there any way we can have these as avatars, anyone know?
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:21 AM   #10
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Yeah just as a note, Talon's gif lagged hard when it was a .gif but as a .webm I got no lag what so ever.

This is only really a good thing tbh.
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:43 AM   #11
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This sounds confusing, new, and scary. The unholy trifecta of things I don't want.
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:28 AM   #12
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I can vouch for .webm's, but putting in native support seems a little bit difficult.
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
I can vouch for .webm's, but putting in native support seems a little bit difficult.
How so? I provided the license holder (in this case Kuno) the code ripe for the taking. The only possible issue is that it is optimized for later versions of vBulletin than what we run -- but given dami's implementation of a YouTube tag many years ago, I find it borderline impossible to believe that an embedded media object native to HTML5 cannot have an embed tag written for it on older versions of vBulletin. Like ... it should be as easy as the img tag, and much much easier than the YouTube tag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Yeah just as a note, Talon's gif lagged hard when it was a .gif but as a .webm I got no lag what so ever.

This is only really a good thing tbh.
Were you viewing on a mobile device? That's another thing: animated GIFs, for whatever reason, are super difficult on smartphones' resources. But WebMs flat out do not work on iOS (at least as of January; and I'm stuck on iOS 7.x anyway so my personal experiences can't be relied upon for users of the latest operating system). The Imgur one works ... because it's not a WebM you're loading there if you load it on iPhone -- it's an MP4 video file they've provided as a courtesy to iPhone users.

However, "embed does not work in iOS" is no different for WebM than it is for UPN's YouTube tag. "BORKED," "BORKED," "BORKED," am I right? If we're not beating down the door of the YouTube tag for failing iOS users, I see little reason for us to halt implementation of a WebM tag over this.
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Were you viewing on a mobile device? That's another thing: animated GIFs, for whatever reason, are super difficult on smartphones' resources. But WebMs flat out do not work on iOS (at least as of January; and I'm stuck on iOS 7.x anyway so my personal experiences can't be relied upon for users of the latest operating system). The Imgur one works ... because it's not a WebM you're loading there if you load it on iPhone -- it's an MP4 video file they've provided as a courtesy to iPhone users.

However, "embed does not work in iOS" is no different for WebM than it is for UPN's YouTube tag. "BORKED," "BORKED," "BORKED," am I right? If we're not beating down the door of the YouTube tag for failing iOS users, I see little reason for us to halt implementation of a WebM tag over this.
On my phone which is Android, the GIF took a bit of time to load, but after the choppy first run through of the GIF, it was a smooth transition. As for the WebM, it works similar to the ugoira (moving illustrations) from pixiv on my phone and loads like a video would, but much faster. On UPN, the Youtube links remain BORKED because lol.

I'm all for a WebM tag though. And maybe incorporating it into the avatars too, like Geet said.
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
... I don't know that you have much say in the matter if you wish to continue to browse the Internet beyond 2020. Google is leading the charge in HTML5 adoption, making use of their immensely popular YouTube property to bit by bit migrate society away from one shackled to proprietary plug-in technologies like Flash and Java to one which can find its entire toolkit within the native browser language of HTML. While most videos on YouTube are still in either .flv or .mp4 format, most/all new uploads also have HTML5 versions and it's believed that .flv will eventually be phased out entirely.

It's hard to deny that Google's influence is both large and wide. They are not the be-all, end-all for the Internet ... but they're as prime a mover as is Microsoft. Indeed, I'd draw a lot of comparisons between HTML5 adoption and Google in 2015 with HTML4 adoption and Microsoft in 1998. (I still remember when "HTML4" was a thing people said!)
HTML5 will never be standard. I only have to point out what happened in 2007 with the iPhone - previously, the internet was very torrent heavy for file-sharing since that dodged ads and paying fees. 30% of the internet's traffic was due to bittorrent in 2004.

The restructuring of the internet toward stream-oriented material (which is basically a form of DRM) and javascript made ads unavoidable, but it went hand in hand with the NSA surveillance and the killing of Demonoid, MegaUpload and crippling of TPB. But torrents still exist, as do people who go "un-plugged" from Google and the like. I'm sure Google hates those people, just like they hate Cyanogen, but too bad.

As for me, I prefer .gifs to .webms.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
HTML5 will never be standard.
Well, two years later, HTML5 is more or less standard. Everyone's phasing out Flash like a redheaded stepchild and while gfycat's slightly worse than it used to be, everyone's supporting native WebMs and MP4s now.

Is there any update on natively implementing this into VBulletin now?
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:35 AM   #17
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http://i.imgur.com/GJvjne4.mp4 sums up pretty perfectly how it feels right now to see the Justify text request implemented before the WebM fix. ;p

Code:
<video width="1024" height="768" controls autoplay="true" loop="true">
<source src="{param}" type="video/mp4">
<source src="{param}" type="video/ogg">
<source src="{param}" type="video/webm">
<object data="{param}" width="1024" height="768">
<embed src="{param}" width="1024" height="768">
</object>
</video>
Pulled from this webforum here. Seems pretty innocuous, pretty simple, and pretty straightforward. Can we try this out?
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeet View Post
Well, two years later, HTML5 is more or less standard. Everyone's phasing out Flash like a redheaded stepchild and while gfycat's slightly worse than it used to be, everyone's supporting native WebMs and MP4s now.

Is there any update on natively implementing this into VBulletin now?
Before I even read your bump, I looked at that post and went "what the heck is this"? I have no idea what I was trying to say back then. It should have been obvious that HTML5 would take over as newer frameworks take over the internet, naturally by a wide range of actors frustrated with Flash and not because of Google telling everyone to move. Sure, the lesser stuff would exist beneath the surface (as with my torrent example) but the standard was going to always be the new thing.

Flash has some significant security issues that Adobe/Macromedia deliberately did not fix, so content streamers were more or less forced to move to something more secure.

Whatever the case, I don't care about .webms so long as they encode properly. I'm seeing a lot of BORKED lately when it comes to YouTube videos, on desktop Firefox and Android AOSP.
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