UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-16-2016, 06:04 PM   #26
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Seconding bumping Alolan Grimer. Tweaking older gens can come in a different session, probably paired with a Miror compilation of new moves like he did for tutors a while back. Toxapex should not be the same TL as Tentacruel, just as this gen's water/bugs be separate (and luckily are easy to do).

Kommo-o post-tutors will probably be TL4. Without, you can make the argument. But it really depends if we want to give TL3 a fully evolved dragon with arms. I'm okay with giving TL3 a nice toy.

Primarina's typing is probably the best reason to make it TL4. We bumped up Azumarill only because its typing is Water/Fairy. Primarina is a good 1 TL worse, but not 2. It's got enough nice things in its movepool (including actual fairy access) where it's good for TL4, and its niche makes up for the fact that there are a lot of good water types in that TL.

Also, if y'all could get a match where Mudsdale used size abuse on a Snorlax ASAP, that'd be great.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2016, 06:28 PM   #27
Snorby
Lacking in Beef
 
Snorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Preparing the Mustard of your Doom
Posts: 2,700
>Miror Compilation of new moves

Spoiler: show
Kanto
Butterfree - Air Slash
Wigglytuff - Stockpile
Clefable - Spotlight
Mankey - Power Trip
Primeape - Stomping Tantrum
Growlithe - Burn Up
Dodrio - Jump Kick & Swords Dance
Marowak - Stomping Tantrum
Starmie - Spotlight
Gyarados - Hurricane
Snorlax - High Horsepower
Zapdos - Magnetic Flux
Moltres - Burn Up
Mewtwo - Laser Focus

Johto
Typhlosion - Burn Up
Furret - Coil
Noctowl - Moonblast
Leadian - Air Slash
Ariados - Swords Dance & Toxic Thread
Pichu - Electric Terrain
Bellossom - Quiver Dance
Sudowoodo - Head Smash & Tearful Look
Dunsparce - Air Slash & Dragon Rush
Sneasel - Throat Chop
Corsola - Liquidation
Delibird - Drill Peck
Mantine - Roost
Suicune - Sheer Cold

Hoenn
Swellow - Hurricane
Surskit - Lunge
Carvanha - Psychic Fangs
Wailord - Noble Roar
Grumpig - Belch
Spinda - Spotlight
Flygon - Dragon Dance
Seviper - Swords Dance
Whiscash - Belch
Lunatone - Power Gem
Solrock - Flare Blitz

Sinnoh
Bibarel - Swords Dance & Aqua Jet
Wormadam - Quiver Dance & Bug Buzz
Mothim - Lunge
Ambipom - Dual Chop
Skuntank - Sucker Punch
Lucario - Laser Focus
Probopass - Magnetic Flux
Froslass - Will-O-Wisp

Unova
Watchog - Nasty Plot
Lillipup - Psychic Fangs
Simisage - Frenzy Plant
Simisear - Blast Burn
Simipour - Hydro Cannon
Musharna - Psychic Terrain
Throh - Mat Block
Basculin - Head Smash
Krookodile - Power Trip
Tirtouga - Liquidation
Emolga - Speed Swap
Alomomola - Play Nice
Klinklang - Gear Up
Beheeyem - Psychic Terrain
Golurk - High Horsepower & Stomping Tantrum
Heatmor - Fire Lash

Kalos
Litleo - Flare Blitz
Pancham - Power Trip
Pangoro - Bullet Punch
Diancie - Power Gem


You mean this thing I dug up awhile back?


ope Miror has a more accurate one
__________________

Click on Fawful for my ASB squad summary. Other links coming soon.

Last edited by Snorby; 12-16-2016 at 07:18 PM.
Snorby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 02:13 AM   #28
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,984
From memory a fat nothing gains anything significant enough to warrant a shift in TL.

Do not take that as gospel.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 03:36 AM   #29
TalkSick
Thunder Badge
 
TalkSick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kanto
Posts: 749
While i agree Alolan Grimer is AL2 quality, I think it shouldn't be bumped to acquisition level 2 unless we bump normal Grimer to acquisition level 2 too. I think the reason normal Muk is AL6 while Alolan Muk is AL5/6 is because muk is better than or at least as good as its alolan counterpart. Putting Alolan Grimer at AL2 while normal Grimer staying at AL1 is just going to imply the alolan one is better than the usual one, but actually the difference between Grimer and Alolan Grimer is pretty much the same as the difference between Muk and Alolan Muk.

The moves that a Muk gets but a Grimer doesn't are Block, Brick Break, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, Rock Smash and Venom Drench.

The moves that an Alolan Muk gets but an Alolan Grimer doesn't are Brick Break, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam and Venom Drench.

So unless Block, Focus Punch and Rock Smash are the moves that prevent Muk from being worse than Alolan Muk, Alolan Grimer shouldn't be at a higher acquisition level than regular Grimer.
__________________
TalkSick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 08:25 AM   #30
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Getting train rekt
Posts: 2,215
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
It's less the movepool and more the typing. Poison/Dark is basically one of the best typings in the game and Grimer is already good, so the typing pushes it over.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Squad summary here.
TL3, 129.5 TP, 37 KOs, 3 SP
C grade ref.

WF quest log here.

FB stuff here.
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 08:30 AM   #31
TheKnightsFury
Volcano Badge
 
TheKnightsFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
It's less the movepool and more the typing. Poison/Dark is basically one of the best typings in the game and Grimer is already good, so the typing pushes it over.
And on the offensive side of things, Poison has terrible type coverage being resisted by 4 types and steel being immune, while Dark provides some great neutral coverage.
__________________
TheKnightsFury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 09:30 AM   #32
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,494
Vikavolt - TL 4 OK

Araquanid is somewhat mediocre but Water/Bug is a really great type and it's SC gives it a Fire resistance. I think we can justify TL3.

Kommo-o is a high TL3 if we put it there (Clanging Scales is mediocre at best) but I think we can get away with keeping it there as long as there is an understanding that we will be reconsidering in light of 3rd version/remake tutors.

I'm on the fence about Alolan Muk - I'd rather do what Concept advises and see how it handles at TL5 and bump it up later. I'll discuss a little more with Connor before decisions are made.

Ribombee is another borderline case. It has a really nicely aggressive movepool and a fantastic signature move, as well as a pretty solid SC, but it really struggles to deal with its weaknesses. I say we put it at TL3 and see how it and Cutiefly do.

Toxapex is a proper turret 'mon, but I feel like while it could be dangerous in the right hands, it's going to be only okay with the average battler. We can move it to 3.

Alolan Ninetales is unfortunately not very good.

Mudsdale is a strange one - it has all the benefits of being a pure Ground type and can definitely use its weight to its advantage... but it's also decidedly mediocre moveset-wise. We can put it at 4 and reassess later - there are plenty of strong Water-types at TL4 that can trash it and it also probably has the unfortunate distinction of one of the few pure Grounds that can't do shit to Grasses.

Wimpod has a respectable TM list and while it's probably outclassed by Surskit (I didn't think I'd ever say that seriously) it's probably useable enough. We also gave it a pretty good SC, so they'll survive. (Also please note that Gyarados is TL5 now).

The starters all have really fantastic typings (well okay Decidueye's is not amazing but still) even if they're movesets aren't super diverse. Keep in mind that we only really lower final forms of starters when they're at the level of Meganium/Serperior of shittiness, so I really can't justify bringing the final stages to 3.

Marshadow is unreleased so it won't actually be obtainable for a while. Necrozma is actually really not great (though it has a good signature move).

Regardless of my opinion of Alolan Muk, I think we should move A-Grimer up. Poison/Dark is a really fantastic typing at lower levels so we have good reason to bump it.

Please note that Alolan Forms that aren't split evos are for all intents and purposes different Pokémon. It's not really worth considering their wild type forms or making considerations for their wild type forms based on their Alolan ones.
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 11:39 AM   #33
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,984
So I think with word of Jeri I can feel reasonable in saying the following;

Spoiler: show
Alolan Grimer - 2
Ribombee - 3
Araquanid - 3
Kommo-o - 3
Vikavolt - 4
Decidueye (and hence Dhelmise) - 4
Incineroar - 4
Primarina - 4
Mudsdale - 4
Toxapex - 3
Alolan Muk - 5


Any final thoughts on these before i change the original in the first post to reflect it?

Also consider discussing the other borderline cases. Namely Lurantis, Golisopod, Passimian.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 11:57 AM   #34
Sneaze
#SWAG
 
Sneaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sigs Hell
Posts: 5,654
Send a message via Skype™ to Sneaze
I really want to know what kind of timeframe we're looking at for reconsidering things before I make any sort of statement other than "No Alolan Muk is frankly way better than regular Muk, it deserves to be a TL6", considering we do not exactly have an amazing track record of changing acquisition levels in a timely manner.

Other than that the list Jeri gave looks fine to me. As for the other swing 'mon...

Lurantis is basically Leavanny with half the movepool and a better typing, there is really no reason this thing should ever need bumped up beyond TL2.

Passimian... I'm honestly inclined to say that even though it has a couple niche tricks, its movepool is nonexistant and you're better off picking up a Machop, let alone the obvious choice of Mankey. This thing should be TL2 at highest, even with its nice SC, and I have no idea why you would ever place it anywhere near TL4.

Golisopod is without a doubt a fence sitter for TL3/4. I'm inclined to say we should err on the side of fun and put it TL3, but this is with the obvious stipulation I stated for Alolan Muk where we'd have to have a reconsideration period that isn't completely terrible so it doesn't run rampant for too long if it does prove too much.
__________________
Wild Future - FizzBy
PASBL - Ghost Grass Gym Leader - Dragon Elite Four


Daisy wins at life for making this Battle Cut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Whatever Sneasel says is right
Sneaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 12:32 PM   #35
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,984
If things are obviously really not okay in the slightest bit I'm more than willing to enact emergency rewrite style shifting and ask Jeri permission to kick them up a notch. No set time frame on that, but I'd be happy to do a reassessment 3 or so months down the line and then again when tutors happen (obviously).

re:Passimian I agree it's not 4 but I'd peg it at low 3 than high 2. It's a Fighting type with good mobility and actually existent range beyond "chuck out a Focus Blast!" in that it gets things like Shadow Ball. I'd put it in the bucket with Ribombee before I do Lurantis.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 12:49 PM   #36
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Agreed that Passimian is a 3. Meh movepool, but it has a few things that are nice like Shadow Ball and being over 6 feet tall. Really not sure why it was considered for 4. Even with tutors we'd probably hold it back.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 01:10 PM   #37
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,984
I must have had a minor brain aneurysm when doing that one.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 01:26 PM   #38
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,494
Good with proposed additions!
__________________


気紛れを 許して 今更なんて思わずに急かしてよ
もっと中迄入って あたしの衝動を 突き動かしてよ

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 01:55 PM   #39
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,984
Okay. Changes make the list look as follows.

Spoiler: show
Trainer Level 1

Alola Diglett
Alola Geodude
Alola Meowth
Alola Rattata
Alola Sandshrew
Alola Vulpix
Bounsweet
Cosmoem
Cosmog
Crabrawler
Cutiefly
Dewpider
Formantis
Grubbin
Jangmo'o
Litten
Mareanie
Morelull
Mudbray
Pikipek
Popplio
Pyukumuku
Rockruff
Rowlet
Salandit
Sandygeist
Stufful
Togedamaru
Wimpod
Wishiwashi
Yungoose

Trainer Level 2

Alola Dugtrio
Alola Graveler
Alola Grimer
Alola Ninetales
Alola Sandslash
Araquanid
Bruxish
Charjabug
Comfey
Brionne
Dartrix
Gumshoos
Hakamo-o
Lurantis
Lycanroc
Minior
Oricorio
Shiinotic
Steenee
Torracat
Trumbreak
Type: Null

Trainer Level 3

Alola Raticate
Crabominable
Komala
Kommo-o
Mimikyu
Palossand
Passimian
Ribombee
Salazzle
Toucannon
Toxapex
Tsareena

Trainer Level 4

Alola Exeggutor
Alola Golem
Alola Persian
Bewear
Decidueye
Dhelmise
Golisopod
Incineroar
Mudsdale
Oranguru
Primarine
Turtonator
Vikavolt

Tapu Koko [Legend Challenge]
Tapu Lele [Legend Challenge]
Tapu Bulu[ Legend Challenge]
Tapu Fini [Legend Challenge]
Nihilego [Legend Challenge]
Pheromosa [Legend Challenge]
Buzzwole [Legend Challenge]
Xurkitree [Legend Challenge]
Kartana [Legend Challenge]

Trainer Level 5

Alola Muk
Alola Marowak
Alola Raichu
Silvally

Solgaleo [Legend Challenge]
Lunala [Legend Challenge]
Celesteela [Legend Challenge]
Guzzlord [Legend Challenge]
Necrozma [Legend Challenge]
Magearna [Legend Challenge]
Marshadow [Legend Challenge]


Trainer Level 6
Drampa


If you see anything which you really strongly feel needs changing from this, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Last edited by Connor; 12-19-2016 at 02:07 PM.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 03:25 PM   #40
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Move Togedemaru to TL1 with the other pikaclones. Same with Comfey, unless you intend to give it Florges SC.

Bruxish could drop to TL1, considering that Water/Psychic is not a great typing and, unlike the other three, it doesn't have the crack movepool to compensate, but it's still kinda okay at TL2.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 03:40 PM   #41
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,984
Bruxish I kinda wanna keep at TL2. Comfey gets the Florges treatment. Togedemaru is a good catch, cheers. Edited that.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 03:47 PM   #42
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Getting train rekt
Posts: 2,215
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
idk, how good is Togedamaru? Like, at TL1 it's obviously going to be compared to Magnemite. Is it really that good/bad?
__________________
Spoiler: show
Squad summary here.
TL3, 129.5 TP, 37 KOs, 3 SP
C grade ref.

WF quest log here.

FB stuff here.
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 03:50 PM   #43
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,984
It's pretty awful. Lacks the levitation Magnemite gets, doesn't have niceties like Supersonic. Has awful typing while being susceptible completely to Earthquake. Poison Jab, Spiky Shield, Pin Missile, Fell Stinger, Reflect, Grass Knot, U-Turn is like it's entire relevant off type and support. Charge Beam, Double Team, Work Up and like, Nuzzle.

It's pretty awful.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 04:42 PM   #44
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Togedemaru is a Steel type which has access to the same number of Steel moves as Dedenne.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 04:57 PM   #45
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Getting train rekt
Posts: 2,215
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
Ok, point conceded. I haven't actually looked at its movepool yet but if it's Dedenne tier, then that's understandable. Given I'm one of the like, two people in ASB who actually use Dedenne, I'm vaguely aware of its shortcomings.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Squad summary here.
TL3, 129.5 TP, 37 KOs, 3 SP
C grade ref.

WF quest log here.

FB stuff here.
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 10:55 AM   #46
Slash
Poison Jam
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,019
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
Dedenne was something I dropped for being a bit too shitty
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 11:00 AM   #47
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Getting train rekt
Posts: 2,215
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
It's literally my most reliable Electric type because I haven't got around to dropping Luxio yet.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Squad summary here.
TL3, 129.5 TP, 37 KOs, 3 SP
C grade ref.

WF quest log here.

FB stuff here.
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 11:32 AM   #48
Emi
ACHILLESSSSS
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Agartha
Posts: 11,152
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
In fairness to Toge Steel is less important of a type than Fairy and it still has Gyro Ball.

Still questioning why Araquanid is TL3. It being resistant to Fire is...not really much of a niche and its still pretty terrible all things considered, since its really lacking in the movepool department (Bug / Water / Ice and then...Poison Jab and Crunch). Like, we still have Mega Beedrill iirc sitting at TL2: Mega Bee is definitely better than Araquanid.
__________________


Quote:
Zelphon - Today at 5:29 AM
If the current political climate has taught me anything
It's that a purge via gay witches may very well be necessary
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 12:05 PM   #49
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Oh, speaking of Megas, idk if we're opening things to non-GenVII yet, but I think Connor was supposed to nerf MegaVenu so it can drop back down to TL4.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 12:20 PM   #50
Slash
Poison Jam
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,019
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
That'd have to be one big nerf, since it really already needs a bit of a nerf in general.
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.