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Old 08-31-2016, 12:31 PM   #1
Talon87
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DD Mega Tyranitar


The title says it all: this team is my ongoing attempt at crafting a really nice, really solid team featuring Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar.

The team as it exists at the time of this writing is:


Sharur (Tyranitar) (F) @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Crunch


Mitsuki (Clefable) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind


Bulldog (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Stealth Rock


Crash (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance


Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spore


Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Slack Off

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Current Elo rating with the team is 1262, having only played less than 30 games. (19 wins, 8 losses, 0 ties.) By no means showing any sign of peaking out; I had a really bad string of nearly six consecutive losses this morning -- tilt? -- but after that it's been pure wins on up to a new PB with the team.

Losses are usually close, either 0-1 or 0-2. Wins are usually comfortable, from 3-0 on up. 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0 wins are not uncommon, though again I am low on the ladder right now, so that is expected to change.

Amoongus (special wall) and Slowbro (physical wall) were sort of stapled onto a team core of Mega Tyranitar, Clefable, Heatran, and Excadrill. So far, they're working out pretty nicely. Amoongus applies helpful pressure with Spore and is a welcome electricity sponge on a team that sorely wants for ways to not force Excadrill out until he's good and ready to sweep in the sand. Slowbro is a nice physical wall whose diverse types of attacks allow him to pressure Dragonite, Talonflame, and many other physical Pokémon. Their addition to the team has allowed Clefable to take less damage, which has proven immensely helpful for allowing her to set up Calm Minds of her own (a new addition to the set, replacing Thunderbolt) and sweep away Pokémon like Quagsire who are otherwise not reliably OHKO'd by Moonblast.

Pretty happy with the team so far. Interested to see how far it can go. By no means giving up on my other project, Mega Diancie. Rather, will try and get Mega Tyranitar up to the same Elo as Mega Diancie, and then assess what has worked well for the Mega Tyranitar team and try to make logical improvements to the Mega Diancie team.
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Old 08-31-2016, 05:29 PM   #2
rotomotorz
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I'm a little busy so I'll only give a short rundown

No Ground resist or immunity with three ground weak is very scary, a Lando or Exca could deal major damage to your team by forcing you to switch and then using EQ

Rotom W stops your entire team bar Amoonguss, and even amoonguss won't like being burned.

No way to clear hazards. Even thought your team does not fear rocks much at all, the damage still racks up.

No priority or scarf users is a little dangerous, because you have little revenge kill potential, only rush drill which requires ttar to be alive and you might have to sack it to get sand up for drill to revenge kill.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:17 PM   #3
Talon87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotomotorz View Post
I'm a little busy so I'll only give a short rundown

No Ground resist or immunity with three ground weak is very scary, a Lando or Exca could deal major damage to your team by forcing you to switch and then using EQ

Rotom W stops your entire team bar Amoonguss, and even amoonguss won't like being burned.

No way to clear hazards. Even thought your team does not fear rocks much at all, the damage still racks up.

No priority or scarf users is a little dangerous, because you have little revenge kill potential, only rush drill which requires ttar to be alive and you might have to sack it to get sand up for drill to revenge kill.
I can't respond to each item but, at least at low ladder, literally all of these are either wrong (based on immediately recent experience) or are correct but irrelevant. The relevant ones we'll cross those bridges as necessary. But for example, entry hazards is flat out not a problem. I have yet to lose a single game to any entry hazard setting player. Clefable laughs, Amoongus laughs, pretty much everyone laughs. It's great!

I will say that based on past/current games I do not feel any meaningful threat from either Landorus-T or Rotom-W. Like so much else, that could change as I rise up the ladder.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:22 PM   #4
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First things first, I'd recommend highly that you replace Ice Punch with Fire Punch, given grounds like Hippowdon and Landorus-Therian are much easier to wear down with Tyranitar than steels like Ferrothorn and Skarmory, and moreover, your team handles them better in general. I feel you also might want to toy with EQ over Crunch, but that really just comes down to preference.

Aside from that, I find myself looking at this team and seeing a strangely defensive sand offense team. Slowbro, to a much lesser extent Clefable, and most especially Amoon feel a bit out of place on your team, giving they absolutely destroy any momentum you had whenever you switch them in. Personally, I'd recommend you drop Amoonguss for Serperior, who can complement both Tyranitar and Excadrill very nicely by busting apart Bulky Ground and Water types that can plague both of them.

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare

This is the set I'd recommend for it. Leaf Storm is the obvious staple of any Serperior set, while HP Fire can at times lure in and remove Mega Scizor, who when packing Superpower poses a major threat to your team. Dragon Pulse is there because Serperior has a rather barren movepool and it allows you to clean without having removed Fire- and Flying- types like Victini and Thundurus that would otherwise stop Serp dead in its tracks.

Glare is there for speed control, which is absolutely crucial on a team like this- Mega Tyranitar can be a bit unfortunately slow even at +1, while Excadrill is awfully dependent on sand to get any kind of speed going to sweep. Glare alleviates this, allowing Serperior to Paralyze fast threats like Tornadus-Therian on the switch, neutering them for the rest of the game.

Now, with Amoonguss out of the picture, Slowbro sticks out like a sore thumb even more so. He really does rather little for the team other than tank hits and spread a burn or two- things Offensive teams like these don't greatly benefit from. Even if you were to give it Thunder Wave, you have speed control in the form of Serperior already. No, what this team needs is a strong Water type with priority necessary to pick off fast threats that the rest of your team is outmuscled by, like Mega Alakazam. For this reason, I recommend CB Azumarill for the last slot:

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off

Standard set here, with Knock Off over Superpower since you have so much stuff that handles Ferrothorn it's rather unnecessary.

Oh, and as a final note, given the more offensive nature of this team when compared to your last one, once you get higher on the ladder I'd take a hard look at replacing SD with Rapid Spin on Drill, only because Spikes stacking is really good in this meta.

tl;dr:
Fire Punch > Ice Punch on Tar
Serperior > Amoonguss
Azumarill > Slowbro

Consider:
Rapid Spin > SD on Exca
EQ > Crunch on Tar

That's all I've got, really. Hope my advice helps, good luck with the team!

EDIT: Oh, on second thought, I'd recommend you use a bulkier spread with Leftovers on Clefable. Clefable is really good at getting opportunities to boost, so the offensive investment/power brought to the table by Life Orb really aren't necessary, whereas I think your team would really benefit from a little extra bulk to help Clefable more reliably pivot into stuff like [email protected], Mega Lopunny/Manectric, Thundurus, and Kyurem-Black. I'd also recommend considering Fire Blast rather than Flamethrower, since it's guaranteed to OHKO Offensive Mega Scizor on the switch, whereas Flamethrower does so less than 1/3 times.

So:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
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Last edited by Snorby; 08-31-2016 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:14 AM   #5
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I just wanted to pop in and say that double Regenerator is really fun and can lead to some ridiculous stalling even with entry hazards on the field.

Regenerator just fits Talon's playstyle really well; he loves the slow, controlled switching game. Slowbro and Amoonguss are both great at this on their own, but together? Makes it pretty hard to whittle him down. Sacrificing that playstyle edge is not a good idea in general, and not only that but you tried to replace those two defensive pivots with two major threats.

Ttar, Excadrill, and to a lesser extent Clefable are the game winners here; his goal is to get them out and set up safely so they can start smashing through the enemy team. Serperior doesn't help him the way Amoonguss does, and Azumarill is a win condition in her own right; that's too much, there's no way Talon is going to be able to protect and set up all these threats. If even one enemy sweeper comes online (ex. enemy Azumarill or Conkeldurr) he's just straight fucked.
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:14 AM   #6
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That's... simply not true. Any Wallbreaker worth its salt beats the core of Bro/Amoon and beats it well. Nidoking, Mega Heracross, Kyurem-B, Crawdaunt, take your pick. With his current team, these sorts of Pokemon, particularly Crawdaunt, can outright 6-0 him if they get in safely.

I don't deny that Bro and Amoon make a nice core, but the core doesn't fit on this team at all. It's like trying to put Alakazam and Chansey on the same team- rather than complementing eachother, they at times actually end up actively hindering eachother's playstyles. While it can work out in some games, there's almost no scenarios where you're better off with Chansey than an offensive Pokemon or Alakazam than a defensive Pokemon.

As for what you said about trying to protect and set up everything... that's just not how offense works. At all. Every threat he has beats a different set of Pokemon, and most don't even require setup. Excadrill's SD is wholly unneeded against loads of teams, Azumarill literally has no set up, and Serperior's set up move doubles as its strongest STAB attack, so you set up by attacking. Considering Clefable creates setup opportunities for itself by sheer virtue of forcing switches, really MTTar is the only one you need to put a concerted effort into setting up. And besides, you don't try to sweep with every potential wincon you have; the beauty of offense is that the mons complement each other and allow the team to be able to relatively reliably beat any team archetype. For example, on this team:

Against Hyper Offense, Excadrill can easily sweep, while Azumarill cleans up.

Against Bulky Offense, Mega Tyranitar sweeps, while Serperior cleans up.

Against Balance, either Serperior or Clefable can sweep, while either Excadrill or Serperior cleans up.

Against Stall, it's all but impossible to sweep unless the stall team is incompetent, but provided Azumarill breaks down some of the walls like Chansey and Heatran, which it's all but designed to do, Clefable can very easily clean up.

Generally, you'll scarcely have to set up more than 1, maybe two mon if all goes well.

Besides, if we want to look at opposing attackers:
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 100-118 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 85-101 (22.1 - 26.3%) -- 10.7% chance to 4HKO

Standard Conkeldurr can do nothing against this team. Meanwhile, CB Azumarill gets a KO, then Serperior comes in and Leaf Storms, either killing Azumarill or giving it a free +2 when they switch to a check, which will usually allow Serperior to punch enough holes in the opponent's team to allow another teammate to clean up. (Note: CB Azuzu Aqua Jet isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO on MTTar, so it doesn't stop that sweep at all).

AV Azumarill is even less useful, losing outright to CB Azumarill, with its Aqua Jet not even OHKO'ing Excadrill of all things, while Serperior can eat a hit and KO, Tyranitar laughs off Aqua Jets, and Clefable fails to be reliably 2HKO'd.

Admittedly, BD Azumarill basically wins from turn 1 if you let it set up. But on a team where almost everything 2HKOs Azumarill, it really shouldn't be setting up unless you screw up big time.

Shuckle, I don't mean to be rude, but did you actually test this team? Because every point you've brought up is not only basically false but easily disproved by a quick laddering session. I tested the team (both Talon's iteration and my own) in 10 game ladder sessions before making my suggestion, and Talon's team went 7-3, while mine went 10-0. I used two different testing alts (both around 1450 at start) for these to make sure it was comparable, too. Basically what I mean to say here is "Don't knock it 'til you try it". In Pokemon, you'd be floored by how much seems good or bad, sturdy or fragile, strong or weak on paper that's the exact opposite in practice.
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:41 AM   #7
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Respectfully, Shuckle nailed my experience yesterday. While I do not doubt that the honeymoon can't last forever, for right now this team works surprisingly well with my playstyle. It is as Shuckle says: your suggestions leave me bare and naked for safe switch-ins / pivoting. The addition of Amoongus and Slowbro to the team has made it very, very easy to work around Rotom-Wash, Landorus-T, and various other threats.

I withhold final judgment until either I flourish in the 1800s or else I come crying to you guys, frustrated and stonewalled at any Elo below that. But until then, for right now, the team should not be changed. I am on a winning streak, and the majority of these wins have been 4-0 or better.

None of this is to say that I don't welcome advice for how to improve the team. I am only saying, I am not comfortable making any changes to the team right now because everything advised seems to contradict my very own experiences presently.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:56 AM   #8
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That's all good and fine- not trying to force you. If it works for you then it works for you, but I have to ask why you made an RMT thread if you don't want people to rate and suggest changes :p
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