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Old 07-05-2016, 05:28 AM   #51
Aposteriori
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So, this is near and dear to my heart and the thread has yet to close

Cryogonal (Ice): Cryogonal levitate by default. The chain of ice produced from their face can be lengthened and shortened at will for slight energy cost and also used to manipulate items or foes. Moves like Light Screen and Reflect are stronger and faster to set up when used by Cryogonal. Cryogonal's Attract and similar moves show the target an image that they would find alluring. This works on male and female Pokémon. They are inorganic. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
The light buff should be a bit more extended

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Cryogonal is a unique Ice type that learns Solar Beam, both reflective panes, confuse ray, acid armor, signal beam, magic coat, flash cannon, iron defense.

It has a natural bond to light, and I was wondering if it could get that feature extended. Maybe have this feature where its own body stores light that allow for light based move to charge faster. In the absence of light, they emit a chilling glow. Inside a blizzard/hail, they blend in better due to the reflective surface bouncing off the snow. Something to what glaceon has + light moves.

Spoiler: show
Glaceon (Ice): Members of the Eevee line have sensitive hearing, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound-based status techniques like Supersonic. Their Baton Pass and Helping Hand attacks take slightly less time and energy to perform compared to other Pokémon. Glaceon's light colouring and ice-like body patterns allow them to hide better among ice and in blizzards. Glaceon deals slightly more damage with Ice typed attacks than usual, and their frigid bodily temperatures cause physical contact to chill opponents more than normal. Their Hail attack is more potent than normal and, using a move, they may create hardened ice crystals over their body, reducing incoming physical damage by 10%. These crystals fade naturally after sustaining a few blows.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:45 AM   #52
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I'm sorry what? Cryogonal does not at all have a "natural" bond to light at all. It just learns Solar Beam and Confuse Ray (the only two moves you listed that have actually have anything to do with light) A combination all of these Pokemon have. This is a proposal that simply reeks of pure self-interest. The reasoning is shaky at best, not to mention this is, in essence, a slightly watered down version of your Cryogonal sig. Cryogonal is a very unique Ice Type with an already pretty excellent SC, it really does not need the help.
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Old 07-05-2016, 01:28 PM   #53
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What does acid armor have to do with light? #AskingTheRealQuestions
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Old 07-05-2016, 02:22 PM   #54
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I'm sorry what? Cryogonal does not at all have a "natural" bond to light at all. It just learns Solar Beam and Confuse Ray (the only two moves you listed that have actually have anything to do with light) A combination all of these Pokemon have. This is a proposal that simply reeks of pure self-interest. The reasoning is shaky at best, not to mention this is, in essence, a slightly watered down version of your Cryogonal sig. Cryogonal is a very unique Ice Type with an already pretty excellent SC, it really does not need the help.
Ad hominem aside, there is nothing wrong with incorporating an idea that came from a sig. Mega Kanga was a rehash of Jeri's sig.

Under ASB, we have seen that specific list of moves clumped together as light based moves, maybe it was done erroneously and that was a lack of my understanding. If my suggestion were to be carried by its own weight, it would be an extension of what is already set up in terms of it being a mirror and playing with light.

I don't have an issue looking for things that can boost members within my own squad, they come to my mind more often than things that are not on my squad. If a modification makes a pokemon more worthwhile, then maybe others will pick it up? Again, focus on the argument and don't make it about me. If it does get added, it would be wonderful and if it does not it wont be the end of ASB as we know it.

>Acid Armor
I feel that it plays with the way light lays on the user, making it an extension at how the user can manipulate light around him.

Last edited by Aposteriori; 07-05-2016 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 07-05-2016, 04:25 PM   #55
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Overall the buff isn't necessary but there's nothing really wrong with it. This is what makes SCs annoying.

But no, acid armor has nothing to do with light. Closest is enhancing natural camouflage, but that still isn't light based. And Iron Defense... yeah. C'mon. And just because Magic Coat makes you glow doesn't make it light based. Panes are energy panes, Light Screen's name aside, but we already have a thing for them so they're irrelevant. Funny enough though, you forgot Aurora Beam.

But looking at the actual suggestion:

Solar Beam, Flash Cannon, Signal Beam, and Confuse Ray (and Aurora Beam), are all light moves. And form a nice part of Cryogonal's weird as fuck movepool. We've got some semblance of Cryogonal being spooky with lights already going on. We definitely shouldn't put all the suggestions on the SC. At some point we're just taking a mediocre pokemon and stuffing buffs in it in the vain hope that we can make it good. I mean, do we give it a slashing boost because it knows Sharpen and Night Slash which are both unusual?

The glow is useless and would only overstuff the SC. Camouflage makes sense for reasons having nothing at all to do with light. Meh on the boost. Would be good to mention Solar Beam working fine in blizzards. I don't see too compelling of a reason for boosting the rest of the moves, but again, it's not like there's a big reason not to. Meaning that all to be had here is a dumb back and forth on SC philosophy until Jeri closes the thread and decides for himself, so let's just cut to that last part.

Last edited by Stealthy; 07-05-2016 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 07-05-2016, 04:57 PM   #56
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The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Smeargle (Normal): Smeargle may use the move Sketch to permanently learn new moves. The number of slots Smeargle has is dependent on the owner's trainer level. Smeargle will start with ten moves that it can Sketch. For each level over 1 that a Smeargle's trainer has, it can learn an additional four moves, up to a maximum of 30 total Sketched moves (other moves which Smeargle can learn naturally do not count towards this limit). Moves which Smeargle has learned must be noted in the Miscellaneous Squad Submissions thread and recorded in the Pokémon’s biography. Moves can also be deleted freely using Miscellaneous Squad Submissions. Smeargle may not Sketch the same move more than once without deleting it first and cannot Sketch signature moves or moves learned via signatures. The amount of off-type energy that Smeargle receives is proportional to the types of moves that it copies. Since Smeargle is generally not a natural user of these moves, it cannot use them with familiarity and they may be slightly less effective than normal (though they will deal equivalent damage and use the normal amount of energy, generally). Smeargle may also may use their tails to paint their surroundings or their foes. This counts as a move and can serve a variety of purposes, from marking gathering points to writing taunts that will enrage the opponent. Smeargle have sensitive hearing, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound based status attacks. They fight more enthusiastically in urban environments.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
Let's settle the score on this one; it needs more balancing to ensure we don't feel shafted facing one.


The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
We have these moves defined as event moves:
235. Smeargle - False Swipe, Spore, Mean Look, Odor Sleuth, Iron Tail, Doubleslap, Tail Whip, Captivate, Sleep Talk, Flamethrower, Seismic Toss, Fury Swipes

1) As the years have gone by, Smeargle off the bat has 5 offtypes gifted to him.


Moveset Alterations
Pokémon with extremely limited movesets (such as regional bugs/pupae or Pokémon like Wobuffett) may generally pick up a number of moves without significant drawback, but they must be limited to around 20 at maximum and cannot be more than 6 different types, not counting their STAB.

2) Pulling from the sig guidelines: six seems to be an acceptable amount of offtype without major drawbacks.

--

1)My proposition is that we relook what we call event moves for Smeargle. I think that as the years go by, and more Smeargle are handed out as event prizes, the bigger its movepool will grow. Being real honest, these cannot be considered event moves; Smeargle has the unique move to learn all moves from the game, so by extension it learned those moves via its natural attack of sketch. In my mind, its like we are doubling down on moves it should be able to learn to begin with. These are not special, these are not impossible to obtain otherwise, it was just gamefreak handing a Smeargle out with four common moves. I propose we eliminate the notion that Smeargle learns event moves; these moves are not unnatural or unobtainable by other means to him.

2)The bolded part of the SC should work in tandem with the amount of offtype it has access to. If Smeargle has 6 offtype total, it should work with no inhibition which should void the SC nerf introduced in the last version of the SC. If Smeargle has 6-10, it should work with the debuff already mentioned. If it has 11+ (Snorlax has access to 11 offtypes), it should have the debuff and also an offtype energy nerf.


Please consider part 1 heavily, because this will avoid future movepool additions that will make Smeargle a runaway offtype train.
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:57 PM   #57
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I've been saying this for years but every time I suggest it people flip the fuck out.

And no I am not doing anything for Cryagonal sorry.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:13 PM   #58
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I've been saying this for years but every time I suggest it people flip the fuck out.

And no I am not doing anything for Cryagonal sorry.
People need to set their personal feelings aside on Smeargle. I personally like the design, and I do like the custom feel for it, that does not mean it needs to be top notch. I explored the deep end and it is too much when you become crafty and selective with the abundant 30 choices. I personally feel it will get worse. I was perplexed when it got flamethrower and seismic toss because in many ways it makes sketching moves easier. Anyone saying that these random moves constitute event moves are clearly stretching the definition of an event move. Unless there is a solid argument to define those additions as event moves, then I'm not sold on the idea one bit.

>Cryogonal diss
Zordon will not pick you as the next power ranger.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:21 PM   #59
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Jeri I thought you already fixed Smeargle so it didn't learn event moves and did get more Sketch moves.

I may be misremembering this.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:33 PM   #60
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Honedge (Steel/Ghost): Honedge are possessed swords, their body entirely made up of the blade and sheath, making them inorganic. All attacks involving slashing get a 10% boost in power. They levitate by default. They always grip their sheath with their cloth, somewhat weighted down by the heavy metal protector. Using a move, Honedge can sheath themselves, making them unable to use slashing attacks but meaning they take only 80% damage from attacks. As they are bound to a physical object, they are unable to achieve states other than solid.

Doublade (Steel/Ghost): Doublade are two possessed swords, their body entirely made up of the blades and aegis, making them inorganic. All attacks involving slashing get a 20% boost in power. They levitate by default. They always grip their aegis with one of their cloths, somewhat weighted down by the heavy metal protector. Their other cloth can be used to grip some objects but it is not very prehensile and its grip is easy to break. As Doublade is made up of two separate swords, they are able to perform two slashing attacks in quick succession without the normal restrictions of combos and without using additional energy. Using a move, Doublade can sheath themselves, making them unable to use slashing attacks but meaning they take only 80% damage from attacks. As they are bound to a physical object, they are unable to achieve states other than solid.

Aegislash (Steel/Ghost): Aegislash are a possessed swords and shield, their body made entirely of the blade, making them inorganic. All attacks involving slashing get a 20% boost in power. They levitate by default, but prefer to remain still when attacking and defending. When Aegislash are sent out, they will start in Shield Forme, giving taking 80% damage from all attacks. When ordered to use any attack, they will go into Blade Forme, losing this boost. They may enter Shield Forme using a move. Defensive moves that seek to reduce damage from a move, such as Iron Defense, King's Shield or Protect will cause Aegislash to automatically enter this forme. They cannot be poisoned.

Can we make it state in Aegislash's SC that it's permasolid like it's pre-evolutions? It's still a possessed sword, which is enough to make the pre-evolutions permasolid, but there's no mention of the final stage being permasolid.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:36 PM   #61
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Or we could just. Not make Honedge and Doublade perma-solid.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:58 PM   #62
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I agree with Emi, we give every other ghost the ability to changes states. Make it so they can go etheral but only for short times like Golett and Golurk, which were also locked in perma solid until the SC changes.
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:17 PM   #63
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Smeargle I feel should never get any FFR moves and then be given a couple (3?) extra sketch slots to compensate. The last part is probably optional at the end of the day though. Apost's second point looks sound enough to me as well.

Honedge and Doublade should get the Golurk treatment.
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Old 07-06-2016, 03:47 AM   #64
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I super missed that. Something something can extend their natural ethereality to echant and change the object they are bound to. Bam.
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Old 07-06-2016, 04:30 AM   #65
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Whichever works best, I just don't like that Aegislash has states while the rest of its line doesn't.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:23 PM   #66
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Almost any policy change which results in ghosts being more consistent is going to be a good idea.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:11 PM   #67
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Pelipper (Water/Flying): Pelipper can carry up to three small Pokémon in its beak, as long as their combined weight is within reason, Pokémon inside Pelipper's beak can still launch attacks from within, however, such attacks will be less accurate. Pelipper cannot have a Pokémon in its beak as a signature move. Therefore, Tailwind is more beneficial to them and they can easily fight an opposing Tailwind. Pelipper can dive underwater for a short time, though it's not very fast nor able to go very deep.


There is nothing wrong with it; could we possibly give it a thematic boost to not lose enthusiasm under sunny day? Something about a Pelipper being a beach pokemon would be nice
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:31 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aposteriori View Post
Pelipper (Water/Flying): Pelipper can carry up to three small Pokémon in its beak, as long as their combined weight is within reason, Pokémon inside Pelipper's beak can still launch attacks from within, however, such attacks will be less accurate. Pelipper cannot have a Pokémon in its beak as a signature move. Therefore, Tailwind is more beneficial to them and they can easily fight an opposing Tailwind. Pelipper can dive underwater for a short time, though it's not very fast nor able to go very deep.


There is nothing wrong with it; could we possibly give it a thematic boost to not lose enthusiasm under sunny day? Something about a Pelipper being a beach pokemon would be nice
Well, since we're talking about Pelipper, could add the missing c/p line from Wingull's SC?

Wingull (Water/Flying): Though Wingull are adequate fliers, their bodies are built for gliding. They can easily take advantage of wind currents to increase their speed. Therefore, Tailwind is more beneficial to them and they can easily fight an opposing Tailwind. Wingull can dive underwater for a short time, though not very fast nor very deep.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:30 PM   #69
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Honedge (Steel/Ghost): Honedge are possessed swords, their body entirely made up of the blade and sheath, making them inorganic. All attacks involving slashing get a 10% boost in power. They levitate by default. They always grip their sheath with their cloth, somewhat weighted down by the heavy metal protector. Using a move, Honedge can sheath themselves, making them unable to use slashing attacks but meaning they take only 80% damage from attacks. As they are bound to a physical object, they are can only achieve ethereal for a short time using light energy. They can also become invisible, but their sheath will not be affected.

Doublade (Steel/Ghost): Doublade are two possessed swords, their body entirely made up of the blades and aegis, making them inorganic. All attacks involving slashing get a 20% boost in power. They levitate by default. They always grip their aegis with one of their cloths, somewhat weighted down by the heavy metal protector. Their other cloth can be used to grip some objects but it is not very prehensile and its grip is easy to break. As Doublade is made up of two separate swords, they are able to perform two slashing attacks in quick succession without the normal restrictions of combos and without using additional energy. Using a move, Doublade can sheath themselves, making them unable to use slashing attacks but meaning they take only 80% damage from attacks. As they are bound to a physical object, they are can only achieve ethereal for a short time using light energy. They can also become invisible, but their sheath will not be affected.

Axing Smeargle's event moves.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:07 AM   #70
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Alright so I have a number of suggestions, some might accuse me of trying to benefit myself because a few a water pokemon but that is a mixture of coincidence, the fact that water is one of the largest types and I spend a lot of time looking at water pokemon.


Surskit
(Bug/Water): Because their feet have a substance to affect surface tension, Surskit can walk, or at least glide, on top of water and slippery surfaces such as sheet ice.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
My problem with the SC is just how basic it is and all it really does is tell us something we all already know about Surskit.

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Surskit's pokedex entries make reference to a sweet smell it emits from its antenna when it is threatened. I thought that maybe we could give it something similar to the chikorita line, having it lower the defenses or offenses of a pokemon within a certain radius? It wouldn't really be broken and would give surkit something more than its regular method of movement.


Clawitzer (Water): Clawitzer's large claws act much like a cannon, granting a 20% boost to any moves fired from it. Though only decent swimmers, they can also use the exhaust from their claw to propel themselves on land and in water. They prefer to walk along the bottom of the water. They fight more enthusiastically when submerged and in a sizeable body of water.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
Recently in the anime, Clawitzer has seen plenty of screen time and every time it has been used on land. How does it move on land? It levitates apparently. I have provided a picture below. The main problem i have with this SC is that we slapped the same thing on it that we have for every crab/lobster pokemon. We say it prefers to walk along the bottom of the water, were there is no way Clawitzer is doing that comfortably with the claw. The exhaust part makes up for this somewhat however.
Spoiler: show


The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself) I think we need to cut the 'prefers to walk along the bottom' for Clawitzer since it doesn't make sense. With the substantial anime evidence for levitation, I believe it should be given levitation abilities similar to that of a Milotic, give it a relatively low flight ceiling.


Chinchou (Water/Electric): Chinchou are fish and thus are slow and nearly immobile on land, but are faster and more agile in the water. They fight more enthusiastically when submerged and in a sizeable body of water. Whenever a Chinchou uses an electric attack in the water, it creates a small amount of electricity around it, shocking anything in the water with it within 10 feet of it (damage is considered equal to half a Thunder Shock for the most powerful electric attacks. They may also use their antenna as a light source in the same way that the Mareep family does with their tails.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
This one is simple. Chinchou has feet, get rid of the first half of the first line.
Spoiler: show


The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Remove the part amount being immobile on land, replacing it with something along the lines of 'it has feet and can walk on land but is not particular fast or agile'.



Venomoth (Bug/Poison): Venomoth are capable of flying and, despite their lack of the Flying-type, are quite agile. Their spore based attacks are slightly more effective than normal. Venomoth have a sort of radar vision, which allows them to see almost completely around themselves. This will also allow them an uncanny ability to determine the location of their opponent, regardless of how well hidden they are. This keen eyesight also improves their accuracy with attacks slightly.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
Nothing wrong with the current SC

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself) I think Venomoth deserves Psychic familiarity. We have given it to other pokemon who have constantly shown a connection to the type in the Anime. I clearly remember it being brought up when Connor was rewriting SC's and he said no since we gave Butterfree psychic familiarity. I don't think that is a good way to go about it, Venomoth is always going to be better than Butterfree in ASB, and the familiarity could help it to become a more viable pokemon.


I have a feeling I forgot a few that i was going to bring up but that will do for now
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:02 AM   #71
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Dusknoir (Ghost): Dusknoir are relatively solid and prefer that state, but can go ethereal or invisible with little problem. Unlike Duskull and Dusclops, they can levitate with decent speed and agility. Their defense and special defense are slightly higher than those of other Ghosts. They can be poisoned.

So, there's nothing wrong with this SC, but I think some mention of Dusknoir's stomach mouth should be made. It doesn't have to give a boost to attacks fired from it or anything, but having that explicitly mentioned would only do more good than harm.

Muk (Poison): Muk are made up of poisonous substances made of liquid slime. Thus, toxic or polluted chemicals heal them instead of harm them. The same is true for poison attacks. Muk can see in the dark. Muk also leave poison in their path, poisoning the ground and leaving a substance that can cause minor poisoning to Pokémon if they come in contact with it. They are also very flexible, and can fit through gaps that most Pokémon of their size couldn't. Their bodies absorb physical blows, and physical projectiles, making all attacks in these manners 80% effective. However, as the slime is liquidized, they take slightly more damage from electric attacks.

Again, nothing really wrong with this one besides the Electric weakness, but some mention of Muk's swimming ability could be added to it?
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:31 AM   #72
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Forgot a couple

Scizor (Bug/Steel): Scizor are not as fast or agile as Scyther and are not true fliers. Instead, they glide and hover. If needed to, however, they are able to fly for short distances, and their claws allow them to grab and climb relatively smooth surfaces. Their powerful claws also give them a 20% boost to any attack involving them. They have slightly higher defences than other Bug-types. In its Mega Forme, its saw-like claws give any claw attacks greater cutting power, giving them a chance to inflict sore, weakened spots. Its lighter frame and fuller wings allow it to travel with the speed and agility of a Scyther, as well as giving it equivalent flight abilities.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
Nothing

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Can we give Scizor flying familiarity? We gave it to plenty of other pokemon that change their type on evolving and Scizor is far from the best ASB pokemon. If anything this will just serve to make Dave angry haha


Aggron (Steel/Rock): Aggron can see in the dark. Due to their exceptional hardness, they will not take recoil damage from attacks they use and are highly resistant to physical moves, taking only 80% damage. In its Mega Forme Aggron's body hardens into a carapace of high strength metal, becoming a pure Steel type. It is fairly resistant to physical strikes, and only powerful physical attacks will deal noticeable damage to them.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
We have all seen how much of a beast Aggron/Mega Aggron are in Cibbir's gym. We originally proposed to give it the offtype nerf, I think it is time to implement it.

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Give regular and mega Aggron the offtype nerf. I think there is maybe 2 or 3 types this thing is missing? I know it is a bit rough to give it to normal Aggron, but no one is going to be using regular Aggron unless it has a sig removing the 3x weaknesses or has the monolith badge attached.
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:33 AM   #73
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The off type nerf was intentionally kept super limited and even then people bitched incessantly. Not sure about this.
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:21 AM   #74
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100% do not give to regular Aggron.
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:27 AM   #75
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But we can give it to Connor's.
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