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Old 04-07-2016, 09:26 PM   #1
Jerichi
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Eevee Species Characteristic Review v1.10

If there is a problem that you've found with a Species or Type characteristic or the anime has given us a new fun mechanic, this is the place to submit your proposals for edits. In the past, we operated primarily under an open debate, but to keep the discussion more focused, we will be shifting to a proposal system. Additionally, we will now be doing the review once per month to allow us to tackle all the moves at once, and leave it open for a week to allow for discussion and review.

If you wish to submit an SC for review, please post the following:
  • The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas
  • The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
  • The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)

We will leave the discussion open, however, if the discussion diverts or gets out of hand, we reserve the right to freeze discussion on a particular move. Once the week has passed, we will review the discussions and perform the necessary rewrites. In order to keep the discussions readable, please clearly indicate the SC you are discussing, preferably with quote tags so that we can follow the conversation. If you do not, we might miss your points.

We expect everyone in this thread to act civilly. Failure to follow these guidelines may result in banning from the thread and repeat offenses will result in potential loss of privileges.

We will open the thread for the first full calendar week of the month and close it the following weekend.

Thanks!
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:45 PM   #2
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Whoops thought this was next week I'll give you a little extra time if you want.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:58 PM   #3
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It was never opened

The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Klink (Steel): Klink are bound together by a powerful electrical force and are constantly turning to maintain it. They can break apart for a short time (e.g. to perform an attack) but will be drawn back together immediately afterwards. If they stay apart much longer than that, they will suffer fatigue more quickly, but while they stay together they are less susceptible to fatigue than other Pokémon. They also charge attacks more quickly while bound together. The Klink line is familiar with the Electric-type. Because of the electrical energies that bind them together, they are effected by Magnetic Flux. They are inorganic and fight most enthusiastically in man made environments. They levitate by default. Moving by electro magnetic propulsion, they are not as fast as other levitating Pokémon, but are much more agile.

Klang (Steel): Klang's multiple gears are bound together by a powerful electrical force and are constantly turning to maintain it. They can break apart for a short time (e.g. to perform an attack) but will be drawn back together immediately afterwards. If they stay apart much longer than that, they will suffer fatigue more quickly, but while they stay together they are less susceptible to fatigue than other Pokémon. They also charge attacks more quickly while bound together. The Klink line is familiar with the Electric-type. Because of the electrical energies that bind them together, they are effected by Magnetic Flux. They are inorganic and fight most enthusiastically in man made environments. They levitate by default. Moving by electro magnetic propulsion, they are not as fast as other levitating Pokémon, but are much more agile.

Klinklang (Steel): Klinklang's multiple gears are bound together by a powerful electrical force and are constantly turning to maintain it. They can break apart for a short time (e.g. to perform an attack) but will be drawn back together immediately afterwards. If they stay apart much longer than that, they will suffer fatigue more quickly, but while they stay together they are less susceptible to fatigue than other Pokémon. They also charge attacks more quickly while bound together. The Klink line is familiar with the Electric-type. Because of the electrical energies that bind them together, they are effected by Magnetic Flux. They are inorganic and fight most enthusiastically in man made environments. They levitate by default. Moving by electro magnetic propulsion, they are not as fast as other levitating Pokémon, but are much more agile.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
No problem per say.

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
They have limited versatility even a gen later. They have 3 offensive offtypes which are electric, rock smash, and bug.

Could we give them infinity electric offtype a la Florges/Grass?


--



The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Vanillish (Ice): Vanillish can move quickly over the ground in short distances through slight levitation and bursts of mist, though they are not as agile as Vanillite and have a low flight ceiling. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

Vanillite (Ice): Vanillite move by 'skating' over the ground, propelling themselves with bursts of mist, able to move fairly quickly but unable to change their direction easily. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
I advocated for Vanilluxe to get full levitation but I forgot about the pre evos

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Full levitation please, the mechanic is much more clear and easy to maneuver around.
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:36 AM   #4
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I support both proposals and have been pushing for the former for longer than some known members have been in ASB
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:40 PM   #5
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I'd be more open to the Klink line getting free Electric if we can all agree that this will never be brought up as a reason to give Porygon the same.

>Vanilluxe

Yeah okay whatever they suck so bad who cares.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:55 PM   #6
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Whoever brings up porygon is exploitative, and probably wants to gain too much without thinking about balance. Porygon has 9 offtypes to play with, including electric. Klink line has two + rock smash.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:55 PM   #7
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If someone seriously tries to suggest giving Porygon line infinite Electric energy just send them on their way with a sharp retort.

Klink line can be rationalised pretty well and by God the line needs all the help it can scrounge. Would also make me consider getting one.
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:13 PM   #8
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This is not my love child, but it seems TFK forgot to bring it up. Here it is.


The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Binacle (Rock/Water): A single Binacle actually consists of two organisms bound to a rock. Although they appear sessile, they are able to move by crawl on their two heads using their stretchy necks. Since they are both separate organisms, each head is able to act independently to perform two moves simultaneously, but they will both be affected equally by mentally-affecting attacks. They are fairly resistant to Water-type moves despite their Rock-type and take slightly less damage from them. They can see in the dark.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
It lacks this:
Spoiler: show


The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
I dont know how it would be of any benefit, but I guess the LOs can think of something?
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Aposteriori View Post
This is not my love child, but it seems TFK forgot to bring it up. Here it is.


The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Binacle (Rock/Water): A single Binacle actually consists of two organisms bound to a rock. Although they appear sessile, they are able to move by crawl on their two heads using their stretchy necks. Since they are both separate organisms, each head is able to act independently to perform two moves simultaneously, but they will both be affected equally by mentally-affecting attacks. They are fairly resistant to Water-type moves despite their Rock-type and take slightly less damage from them. They can see in the dark.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
It lacks this:
Spoiler: show


The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
I dont know how it would be of any benefit, but I guess the LOs can think of something?
I did mention this as soon as the preview for this episode aired. I have some ideas but I'm on my phone atm and will edit them in later.

Alright so i had two ideas based off of the anime events that i think could work.

Idea 1
1 binnacle head, or the two shoulder ones if its a barbaracle, can be detached and attached onto other things. They can then be ordered to attack from the main body or the detached part. This would allow for some really cool tactical play, as you could place one behind your opponent and then they would have to worry about being attached from two different angles. Hell you could even attach yourself to another pokemon if you wanted to. Problem with this is how we deal with damage, obviously they would have to share the same health pool, splitting them would be stupid.

Idea 2
Kind of similar to idea one but this one is a bit more far fetched. In the episode, one of them attaches itself to Bonnie's head and can control where she moves. We could make it so that they can do this, attach to other pokemon and passively through off their movements, or have the option to directly control the opponents movement using a move.

Its really hard to think about how we can take this really cool anime ability and make it workable in asb. But i think we do need to try and give it something related to this cause its a really cool niche on an underused pokemon.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:08 AM   #10
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Slightly more feasible proposition - allow Binacle and Barbaracle to use physical moves at distance by firing one of their detachable parts at the opponent to use the move. So Razor Shell would see them firing a detachable part directly at the opponent cloaked in Water energy.

It remains quirky but useful (given the myriad of weakness they have running away is effective) while also meaning that referees aren't overworking themselves remembering the awkwardness of placement. As a general rule of thumb ASB as a whole is not fantastic at proper visualisation and the other suggestions will compound this difficulty.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:17 AM   #11
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A la bonemerang then like marowak's bone? I can dig that
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Old 05-07-2016, 09:15 PM   #12
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The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas
Bronzong (Steel/Psychic): Bronzong may levitate a short distance above the ground, though they move rather slowly, and are inorganic. Bronzong are a bit more resistant to heat than other Steel-types.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)

Nothing

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Could we give Bronzong less diminishing returns on Screech and Metal Sound(I would propose two uses at full potency before diminishing but I'll leave specifics up to you if you want to psuh through with these changes)? That Pokemon itself is okay but its a bell it should have some kind of boost to sound moves (and it doesn't learn any offensive sound moves for that matter).
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:45 AM   #13
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The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Smeargle (Normal): Smeargle may use the move Sketch to permanently learn new moves. Smeargle may learn up to ten Sketched moves as a TL1 Pokémon. For each level that a Smeargle gains, it can learn an additional three moves, up to a maximum of 31 total Sketched moves (other moves which Smeargle can learn naturally do not count towards this limit). Moves which Smeargle has learned must be noted in the Miscellaneous Squad Submissions thread and recorded in the Pokémon’s biography. Moves can also be deleted freely using this thread. Smeargle may not Sketch the same move more than once without deleting it first and cannot Sketch signature moves or moves learned via signatures. The amount of off-type energy that Smeargle receives is proportional to the types of moves that it copies. Smeargle may also may use their tails to paint their surroundings or their foes. This counts as a move and can serve a variety of purposes, from marking gathering points to writing taunts that will enrage the opponent. Smeargle have sensitive hearing, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound based status attacks. They fight more enthusiastically in urban environments.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
Sketch slots are no longer a sig

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)

Multiple solutions:
Smeargle has 30 slots, and becomes TL4 (On par to the low tier legends)
Smeargle starts with 10 slots, gains 3 slots TL2-TL6, and gains 5 slot at TL7.

Please dont make the slots level dependent from Smeargle's perspective, make the slots dependent on the trainer's level for the sake of streamlining the process. You gain the slots and the levels in one match, there is no need to spend SP prior to a sketch match, so this allows for one leveller match to fill multiple roles.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:25 AM   #14
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Okay I've given ya'll an extra week I'm gonna close now and go through the threads.
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:49 AM   #15
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Klink (Steel): Klink are bound together by a powerful electrical force and are constantly turning to maintain it. They can break apart for a short time (e.g. to perform an attack) but will be drawn back together immediately afterwards. If they stay apart much longer than that, they will suffer fatigue more quickly, but while they stay together they are less susceptible to fatigue than other Pokémon. They also charge attacks more quickly while bound together. Their constant movement generates and maintains an electric field, which allows them to be affected by Magnetic Flux and also gives them unlimited Electric energy. They are inorganic and fight most enthusiastically in man made environments. They levitate by default. Moving by electro magnetic propulsion, they are not as fast as other levitating Pokémon, but are much more agile.

Klang (Steel): Klang's multiple gears are bound together by a powerful electrical force and are constantly turning to maintain it. They can break apart for a short time (e.g. to perform an attack) but will be drawn back together immediately afterwards. If they stay apart much longer than that, they will suffer fatigue more quickly, but while they stay together they are less susceptible to fatigue than other Pokémon. They also charge attacks more quickly while bound together. Their constant movement generates and maintains an electric field, which allows them to be affected by Magnetic Flux and also gives them unlimited Electric energy. They are inorganic and fight most enthusiastically in man made environments. They levitate by default. Moving by electro magnetic propulsion, they are not as fast as other levitating Pokémon, but are much more agile.

Klinklang (Steel): Klinklang's multiple gears are bound together by a powerful electrical force and are constantly turning to maintain it. They can break apart for a short time (e.g. to perform an attack) but will be drawn back together immediately afterwards. If they stay apart much longer than that, they will suffer fatigue more quickly, but while they stay together they are less susceptible to fatigue than other Pokémon. They also charge attacks more quickly while bound together. Their constant movement generates and maintains an electric field, which allows them to be affected by Magnetic Flux and also gives them unlimited Electric energy. They are inorganic and fight most enthusiastically in man made environments. They levitate by default. Moving by electro magnetic propulsion, they are not as fast as other levitating Pokémon, but are much more agile.

Vanillish (Ice): Vanillish move primarily through levitation, able to use bursts of mist to propel themselves. As such, they are relatively agile though not particularly fast. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

Vanillite (Ice): Vanillite move by 'skating' over the ground and levitation, propelling themselves with bursts of mist, able to move fairly quickly and with decent agility. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

Binacle (Rock/Water): A single Binacle actually consists of two organisms bound to a rock. Although they appear sessile and bound to their rock, they are able to move by crawl on their two heads using their stretchy necks or hop short distances. They can also detach their bodies from the rock to perform attacks, but cannot be forceably removed and generally refuse to travel more than a few meters from it. Since they are both separate organisms, each head is able to act independently to perform two moves simultaneously, but they will both be affected equally by mentally-affecting attacks. They are fairly resistant to Water-type moves despite their Rock-type and take slightly less damage from them. They can see in the dark.

Bronzong (Steel/Psychic): Bronzong may levitate a short distance above the ground, though they move rather slowly, and are inorganic. Bronzong are a bit more resistant to heat than other Steel-types. Due to being a literal bell, Bronzong's sound moves are slightly more effective, resonate more clearly, and suffer from less diminishing returns.

Smeargle (Normal): Smeargle may use the move Sketch to permanently learn new moves. The number of slots Smeargle has is dependent on the owner's trainer level. Smeargle will start with ten moves that it can Sketch. For each level over 1 that a Smeargle's trainer has, it can learn an additional four moves, up to a maximum of 30 total Sketched moves (other moves which Smeargle can learn naturally do not count towards this limit). Moves which Smeargle has learned must be noted in the Miscellaneous Squad Submissions thread and recorded in the Pokémon’s biography. Moves can also be deleted freely using Miscellaneous Squad Submissions. Smeargle may not Sketch the same move more than once without deleting it first and cannot Sketch signature moves or moves learned via signatures. The amount of off-type energy that Smeargle receives is proportional to the types of moves that it copies. Since Smeargle is generally not a natural user of these moves, it cannot use them with familiarity and they may be slightly less effective than normal (though they will deal equivalent damage and use the normal amount of energy, generally). Smeargle may also may use their tails to paint their surroundings or their foes. This counts as a move and can serve a variety of purposes, from marking gathering points to writing taunts that will enrage the opponent. Smeargle have sensitive hearing, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound based status attacks. They fight more enthusiastically in urban environments.

(DT Pointed out that the math was bad so Smeargle gets 4 per level)

Last edited by Jerichi; 06-05-2016 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:30 PM   #16
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The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Spoiler: show
Snorunt (Ice): Snorunt have powerful jaws that allow them to eat ice and snow. If there is ice or snow in the arena, Snorunt may eat the ice or snow using a move, restoring good health and energy once a battle. If the snow is tainted or poisoned, it will harm them instead. Their biting attacks are 10% more effective than normal. They are adept at hiding in blizzards and can see through them easily. They can see in the dark.

Glalie (Ice): Glalie levitate by default. Their appearance makes them intimidating and their fear based attacks are more effective than normal. They can see in the dark. Due to their massive jaw, biting attacks are 1.2x more powerful than normal. They are adept at hiding in blizzards and can see through them easily. If there is ice or snow in the arena, Glalie may eat the ice or snow using a move, restoring good health and energy once a battle. If the snow is tainted or poisoned, it will harm them instead. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind. In its Mega Forme, it surges with icy energies, which actively sap the heat from the air. When using biting moves, it will chill the foe, chilling them as if they were hit with Glaciate. In addition, when performing XX or NO moves, they may choose to cloak them in an aura of Ice energy, causing them to become Ice typed.

Spheal (Water/Ice): Spheal have rotund bodies which allow them to gain speed and momentum very quickly with Rollout. They move primarily by rolling when on land but prefer to swim if possible. If the floor is slippery like an Ice field, they can maneuverable easily using their flippers and tail. They are highly resistant to freezing temperatures and remain nimble in the coldest waters where other Pokémon might be numbed. They are very agile swimmers, generally. They can easily conceal themselves in snowy and icy environments. They are able to hold objects on their nose, allowing them to manipulate objects and use them in attacks. They can see in the dark.

Sealeo (Water/Ice): Sealeo have rotund bodies which allow them to gain speed and momentum very quickly with Rollout. They move primarily by rolling or sliding when on land but prefer to swim if possible. If the floor is slippery like an Ice field, they can maneuverable easily using their flippers and tail. They are highly resistant to freezing temperatures and remain nimble in the coldest waters where other Pokémon might be numbed. They are very agile swimmers, generally. They can easily conceal themselves in snowy and icy environments. They are able to hold objects on their nose, allowing them to manipulate objects and use them in attacks. They can see in the dark.

Walrein (Water/Ice): Walrein have rotund bodies which allow them to gain speed and momentum very quickly with Rollout. They move primarily by rolling or sliding when on land but prefer to swim if possible. If the floor is slippery like an Ice field, they can maneuverable easily using their flippers and tail. They are highly resistant to freezing temperatures and remain nimble in the coldest waters where other Pokémon might be numbed. They are very agile swimmers, generally. They can easily conceal themselves in snowy and icy environments. They are able to hold objects on their nose, allowing them to manipulate objects and use them in attacks. Their large tusks add additional crushing damage to biting attacks, making them 1.2x more potent. They can see in the dark.

Vanillish (Ice): Vanillish move primarily through levitation, able to use bursts of mist to propel themselves. As such, they are relatively agile though not particularly fast. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

Vanillite (Ice): Vanillite move by 'skating' over the ground and levitation, propelling themselves with bursts of mist, able to move fairly quickly and with decent agility. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

Vanilluxe (Ice): Vanilluxe levitates by default, and can move more quickly through the air with bursts of mist. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind. Their Blizzard attack is more powerful than usual, and won't tire them as much to use.

Bergmite (Ice): Bergmite's icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind. Their bodies are also tough and they take only 90% damage from physical attacks.

Avalugg (Ice): Avalugg's large, hefty body is hard as steel, but also causes them to be relatively slow. Their thick carapace of ice mean that take 80% damage from physical attacks. Their icy body is extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

Seel (Water): Seel can move on land but, being slow and awkward, they prefer to swim if they can. If the floor is slippery like an Ice field, Seel can maneuverable easily using its flippers and tail. They also are very agile swimmers. They are highly resistant to freezing temperatures and remain nimble in the coldest waters where other Pokémon might be numbed. They can easily conceal themselves in snowy and icy environments. They can see in the dark.

Dewgong (Water/Ice): Dewgong can move on land but, being slow and awkward, they prefer to swim if they can. If the floor is slippery like an Ice field, Dewgong can maneuverable easily using its flippers and tail. They are also very agile swimmers. Dewgong are highly resistant to freezing temperatures and remain nimble in the coldest waters where other Pokémon might be numbed. They can easily conceal itself in snowy and icy environments. They can see in the dark.

Glaceon (Ice): Members of the Eevee line have sensitive hearing, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound-based status techniques like Supersonic. Their Baton Pass and Helping Hand attacks take slightly less time and energy to perform compared to other Pokémon. Glaceon's light colouring and ice-like body patterns allow them to hide better among ice and in blizzards. Glaceon deals slightly more damage with Ice typed attacks than usual.

Regice (Ice): Effectively a living glacier, Regice is always extremely cold. Pokémon who are not used to the cold will become uncomfortable within 5 feet of Regice. This cold aura also slightly reduces the power of Fire attacks. Being inorganic, Regice cannot be affected by Poison in any way.


The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)

Ice body is anime canon now.
Spoiler: show


The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)

[Grass]: Rainstorms will heal them slightly every round the rain falls, while very bright sunlight will regenerate their energy instead.

The concept already exist for all grass types, could we apply this to these select ice types with the same stipulation for either health or rain, whichever you guys feels more appropriate. If you guys want to be liberal, all ice types could use it! In my mind, this promotes defensive play and stall, despite ice being offensively inclined and super frail.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:04 PM   #17
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As pretty much everybody told you in the Skype TO, this is a bad idea because there are plenty of ice types in that list who are excellent in their own right and need no help, and those that don't are garbage defensively and Ice Body would not help them in the slightest.

Besides making abilities canon in the SCs of all mon who get them is a really, REALLY bad precedent to set.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:23 PM   #18
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Idc if the crappier ones are picked out, and the better ones are left out. Niche strategies should not be discouraged.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:38 PM   #19
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Maybe if the mons you were bringing up had any defensive merit at all, you'd have a point. Maybe. Put most ices have nothing but Toxic and Screens for defensive techniques, and all of them have absolutely horrific defensive typing. There is no making them worthwhile.
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:01 AM   #20
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>Stall Play
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:59 AM   #21
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Some of the pokemon listed blend well into the snow. Glaceon comes to mind as a pokemon that will hide well within the snow and also not mind the slight heal to either health or energy. Its not to increase their viability to be top tier, it is just meant to make them different enough that if the trainer wants to play defensively for a few rounds, they get to do so.

Toxic as a stall tactic is a legitimate strategy. Sometimes all you need are screens and toxic to hide and allow toxic to do its job overtime. The defensive odds are stacked against ice typed pokemon, that why I think it helps in the slightest for match ups that rely on blending into the snow.

Avalugg wont be able to hide as well, but it can surely produce several partials going second between surf and rock climb, it can hide behind barrier at least twice, and it can use bulldoze to interrupt the opponent.

Again, this wont make this sub set of pokemon super stellar, but the small change is welcomed for people who have long term strategies that involve hail without it over shining their offensive potential. At worse, don't use hail and take advantage of the heal? I don't see the benefit of discouraging it.
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:59 AM   #22
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The benefit from not doing this is ensuring the already-horrible job of doing SCs doesn't become even worse. If we give in to your pretty much completely pointless proposal of "let's raise the bar of defensive play with ices from subterranean levels to, well, still subterranean levels but maybe 3 inches higher", that opens the door for people to demand even MORE abilities. Jeri despises SCs already. We should avoid making it actively worse for him and thus try and avoid implementing abilities in such a blatant fashion as much as possible.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:11 AM   #23
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I pulled from the anime though, and it has an ingame origin like many ASB SC mechanics. Not implementing because it saves the headache of Jeri is not a good approach. If the idea is bad because it has no place within ASB, lets leave it out. This idea already exist for all grass pokemon like I said earlier, and there is no anime evidence for that. Again, it is a small benefit that aids defensive play, so it has a merit for those who want to explore that route of game play.

Instead of boxing this into this weird ingame abilities dont belong within asb, let this mechanic carry its own weight. We can discern which ones dont belong, which is why we dont have moody or shadow tag as examples that come to mind. We are not an all or nothing system.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:32 AM   #24
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The point is if we do this then every single time an ability is shown in the anime you'll come back (or somebody else) and ask for it to be implemented. That's a can of worms no one wants to open.

If this was actually a worthwhile change that would noticeably improve the lesser Ice-Types, I'd be on board. But as it stands only the already-solid Ice types on your list (Avalugg, Glalie, etc) will make significant gains with this SC Change.

All in all, this doesn't help the Pokemon it's supposed to make better enough to warrant being implemented and it sets a terrible precedent on top. You've been told this by two people here and half a dozen in Skype TO the other day, an LO included. Why can't you drop it?
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aposteriori View Post
Idc if the crappier ones are picked out, and the better ones are left out. Niche strategies should not be discouraged.
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