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Old 04-30-2016, 02:31 PM   #1
Jerichi
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Porygon-Z Suggestions Thread

Please post general suggestions for the ASB concerning topics that are not directly related to moves/move rules or species characteristics.

This thread, unlike the others, will stay open, but please do not make more than one suggestion per week, more or less. We appreciate your input but we don't always have time to sort through it!
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Old 04-30-2016, 03:41 PM   #2
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ASB Economy IV: LOs should get thank yous for a thankless job.

The LOs do not get anything back for doing sigs or approving ref evals. I'm suggesting that for each person reviewed the LO gets a nominal amount of SP that works toward their TLs. If the LOs do their job smoothly, we should have a healthy league and they do deserve a small reward.

I talked about it briefly, but here is a formal suggestion!

Sigs

.25 SP per pokemon is too much imo.

A flat .25 SP is good enough per trainer reviewed. Overtime, it adds up!


Ref school

.5 SP per app reviewed since there is less of them

1 SP for reviewing the ref app.
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Old 05-06-2016, 05:45 AM   #3
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Light Clay token: screens endure an additional light amount of damage. Cubic versions last two additional rounds
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:21 AM   #4
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(Jeri said we can discuss suggestions here so here I am!)

I really like the idea of adding tokens that aren't garbage, but I feel like 7 rounds of a cubic screen is a bit much- that's gonna be most matchups and it'll likely bleed over into the next matchups.

I'd say make Cubics last one round extra tops. Also we might want to consider excluding Barrier from the boost in strength, if only because I personally think that Barrier would be a mite ridiculous if it could tank anything over major.

Like I said though, it really is probably for the best that we make certain in game held items into tokens so that there are better options than the decidedly mediocre type enhancing tokens and the incredibly limited holiday tokens.

If Jeri agrees I'll probably draft up a few to consider myself.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:36 PM   #5
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Clearly we need Eviolite in PASBL.

Perma 20% boost to both of Metang's defensive stats lets gooo.
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:28 PM   #6
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I would like to bring back up the idea of giving a little extra off type to the type boosting tokens. And then maybe a slightly larger boost to those with stab
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:41 PM   #7
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Clearly we need Eviolite in PASBL.

Perma 20% boost to both of Metang's defensive stats lets gooo.
Eviolite would clearly negate the evolution attack buff. And, to be honest, I think that'd be a really interesting Token to have.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:41 PM   #8
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No, we do not need to improve Light Screen/Reflect.

In-game items don't generally translate too well to ASB but I'd be willing to hear some suggestions maybe.
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Old 05-06-2016, 09:48 PM   #9
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Okay, here's a shitload of suggestions for you. Not going to pretend all of these are perfect or even good, I just scrolled through the list of held items on Bulbapedia and spitballed ideas that seemed worth looking at a second time.

Spoiler: show
Gems- Increases the power of a [Gem]-Type move used by the holder by x1.25 once per battle. The Trainer may pick what move is boosted.

Choice Band- Increases the power of the holder's physical moves by x1.25. The holder may not use any special attacks.

Choice Specs- Increases the power of the holder's special moves by x1.25. The holder may not use any physical attacks.

Damp Rock- Makes Rain Dance last an additional 2 turns when held. Rain Dance is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves, and cancels other Weather Moves more easily. Rain Dance's effects will be more potent.

Heat Rock- Makes Sunny Day last an additional 2 turns when held. Sunny Day is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves, and cancels other Weather Moves more easily. Sunny Day's effects will be more potent.

Icy Rock- Makes Hail last an additional 2 turns when held. Hail is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves, and cancels other Weather Moves more easily. Hail's effects will be more potent and the hail will not damage the user regardless of type.

Smooth Rock- Makes Sandstorm last an additional 2 turns when held. Sandstorm is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves. Sandstorm's effects will be more potent and the hail will not damage the user regardless of type.

Mental Herb- Will free the holder from a mental status once per battle.

Power Herb- Once per battle, the holder may use a typically exhausting move, such as Thunder, Superpower, or Hyper Beam, and not feel anymore drained than they would after using a less exhausting attack of equivalent energy cost.

White Herb- Once per battle, the holder will be freed from a stat drop they have suffered.

Big Root- Ingrain, Aqua Ring, and any Draining Move used by the holder will heal slightly more health/energy and be more resistant to diminishing returns.

Leftovers- Heals a minor amount of health every round the holder is on the battlefield.

Shell Bell- Heals a light amount of health every round the holder successfully uses 2 or more damage-dealing attacks.

Black Sludge- Heals a Poison-type by a light amount of health every round if held. Hurts other Pokemon by the same amount.

Expert Belt- The holder's Super Effective attacks deal x1.2 damage, but neutral attacks deal x0.9 damage.

Life Orb- The holder's attacks deal x1.1 damage, but drain a minor amount of health from the user.

Muscle Band- Boosts the physical attacks of the holder by x1.1.

Wise Glasses- Boosts the special attacks of the holder by x1.1.

Metronome- The holder's attacks will deal x1.2 damage every second consecutive turn they are used.

Weakness Policy- The holder's offensive stats are boosted sharply when hit by a super effective attack, once per battle. These boosts fade the way most stat boosts do.

Wide Lens- The holder's ranged attacks have a slight homing effect, akin to that of magical leaf.

Zoom Lens- The holder is able to see through Double Team and Substitute.

BrightPowder- The holder is slightly more agile than normal.

Eject Button- Allows the holder to switch out as if they had used the move Baton Pass once per battle.

Float Stone- Makes the holder lighter. Pokemon that can fly or levitate have their flight ceilings raised somewhat, while grounded Pokemon get a boost in speed akin to a Long-Term Agility.

Rock Helmet- The opponent will take 10% recoil whenever they use a move that makes contact with the holder.

Safety Goggles- The holder will become more resistant to powder attacks and will be immune to attempts to irritate their eyes, be it through an attack like Acid Spray or a passive effect such as Sandstorm.

Shed Shell- The attacks Mean Look and Block will fail once per battle when used on the holder.


Didn't list SP values for them because you surely have a better idea of how they'd fit into the economy than I do.
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Old 05-07-2016, 02:37 AM   #10
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Maybe not Metronome, spamming a single move is really boring for the refs and is probably not what the league should be aiming for. Also a bit iffy on locking a Pokemon completely out of one sort of moves, like the descs for band/specs. Maybe just say like, 1.2x the energy or 0.9x the power?

Also, perhaps maybe AV?
Assault Vest: The user takes 0.8x damage from special moves, but uses 1.2x more energy for status moves.
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:03 AM   #11
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For choice items i think we would be best going 1.2 boost to one with a 0.8 drop to the other. Also agree that the metronome is not something we want to promote.
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:23 AM   #12
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Choice Band as it is proposed right now is really something I have mixed emotions on. Sure, being locked into physical attacks and not being able to use special attacks may be really bad but for some Pokemon, Bouffalant especially, this item could be really useful. Not the best argument sure, but something to consider perhaps?

I third the idea that Metronome isn't what we want to promote but again, some Pokemon may rely upon it so I have no clue where to go from there.

Ring Target could make for interesting matchups against Ghosts and Flyings when Tricked/Switcheroo'd, so I'll throw that idea out there as well.
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:47 AM   #13
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Sufficed to say there are are numerous reasons why we didn't write up things like Metronome and Choice Band in the first place.

My tip: try and think of things that will achieve ends we want to achieve. For example, how would making charcoal provide extra fire off type further the objective of making STAB more relevant? It wouldn't and would do the opposite. A strong point against it.

And try not to just straight up write sigs as items lol.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:36 AM   #14
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Disclaimer: Take my comments as opinions, nothing more.

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Gems- Increases the power of a [Gem]-Type move used by the holder by x1.25 once per battle. The Trainer may pick what move is boosted.

Aposteriori: So long as it does not stack with SC or sig boost.

Choice Band- Increases the power of the holder's physical moves by x1.25. The holder may not use any special attacks.

Aposteriori: Bad idea. Imagine this compound on top of Gallade.

Choice Specs- Increases the power of the holder's special moves by x1.25. The holder may not use any physical attacks.

Aposteriori: Bad idea. Imagine this compound on top of Normals.

Damp Rock- Makes Rain Dance last an additional 2 turns when held. Rain Dance is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves, and cancels other Weather Moves more easily. Rain Dance's effects will be more potent.


Aposteriori: Maybe even allow rain to start turn of?

Heat Rock- Makes Sunny Day last an additional 2 turns when held. Sunny Day is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves, and cancels other Weather Moves more easily. Sunny Day's effects will be more potent.

Aposteriori: Maybe even allow sun to start turn of?

Icy Rock- Makes Hail last an additional 2 turns when held. Hail is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves, and cancels other Weather Moves more easily. Hail's effects will be more potent and the hail will not damage the user regardless of type.

Aposteriori: Maybe even allow hail to start turn of?

Smooth Rock- Makes Sandstorm last an additional 2 turns when held. Sandstorm is more difficult to cancel out through the use of other Weather Moves. Sandstorm's effects will be more potent and the hail will not damage the user regardless of type.

Aposteriori: The last part is superfluous if you also have safety goggles down below. Maybe allow the user to generate sand from its body by magic means is a better use of this token, but that will only last 5 turns. Tar/Slash/Hippo obtain the 7 turn variation

Mental Herb- Will free the holder from a mental status once per battle.

Aposteriori: Not bad, but that will make Sneaze have to restructure his battle strategy

Power Herb- Once per battle, the holder may use a typically exhausting move, such as Thunder, Superpower, or Hyper Beam, and not feel anymore drained than they would after using a less exhausting attack of equivalent energy cost.

Aposteriorii: This almost feels like a badge. Maybe not as exhaustive, but still tired to an extent.

White Herb- Once per battle, the holder will be freed from a stat drop they have suffered.

Aposteriori: Not bad.

Big Root- Ingrain, Aqua Ring, and any Draining Move used by the holder will heal slightly more health/energy and be more resistant to diminishing returns.

Aposteriori: Could become broken. Aqua Ring heals heavy health, If it heals more it would feel like too much imo. Maybe allow the first two uses to not suffer diminishing returns.

Leftovers- Heals a minor amount of health every round the holder is on the battlefield.

Aposteriori: Cap the heal from significant~extreme?

Shell Bell- Heals a light amount of health every round the holder successfully uses 2 or more damage-dealing attacks.

Aposteriori: Cap the heal from significant~extreme?

Black Sludge- Heals a Poison-type by a light amount of health every round if held. Hurts other Pokemon by the same amount.

Aposteriori: Cap the heal/damage from significant~extreme?

Expert Belt- The holder's Super Effective attacks deal x1.2 damage, but neutral attacks deal x0.9 damage.

Aposteriori: Devalues type tokens, too easily stacked with SC boosts, and/or sig boosts.

Life Orb- The holder's attacks deal x1.1 damage, but drain a minor amount of health from the user.

Aposteriori: Devalues type tokens, too easily stacked with SC boosts, and/or sig boosts.

Muscle Band- Boosts the physical attacks of the holder by x1.1.

Aposteriori: Devalues type tokens, too easily stacked with SC boosts, and/or sig boosts.

Wise Glasses- Boosts the special attacks of the holder by x1.1.

Aposteriori: Devalues type tokens, too easily stacked with SC boosts, and/or sig boosts.

Metronome- The holder's attacks will deal x1.2 damage every second consecutive turn they are used.

Aposteriori: Instead of damage, how about increasing secondary effects by 5% with each consecutive use and cap it at ~20%?

Weakness Policy- The holder's offensive stats are boosted sharply when hit by a super effective attack, once per battle. These boosts fade the way most stat boosts do.

Aposteriori: Devalues type tokens, too easily stacked with SC boosts, and some sig boosts.

Aposteriori: Instead, make it gain a boost in enthusiasm/negate hampering effects of a SE effective move. Think of a dragon being blasted in the eyes by dazzling gleam and not feeling blinded, instead feeling agitated enough to fight with more will power.

Wide Lens- The holder's ranged attacks have a slight homing effect, akin to that of magical leaf.

Aposteriori: Accuracy is too subjective for ASB, this will cause problems and create entitlement that the attack should strike more than anything else.

Aposteriori: Instead, wide spread moves are more potent by not losing power if they are spread out.

Zoom Lens- The holder is able to see through Double Team and Substitute.

Aposteriori: That sounds like Lucario's mega SC.

BrightPowder- The holder is slightly more agile than normal.

Aposteriori: Makes ref's discretion

Eject Button- Allows the holder to switch out as if they had used the move Baton Pass once per battle.

Aposteriori: No, this is a badge already.

Float Stone- Makes the holder lighter. Pokemon that can fly or levitate have their flight ceilings raised somewhat, while grounded Pokemon get a boost in speed akin to a Long-Term Agility.

Aposteriori: Sounds like a sig. Feels like a sig. It's a sig.

Rock Helmet- The opponent will take 10% recoil whenever they use a move that makes contact with the holder.

Aposteriori: abstain

Safety Goggles- The holder will become more resistant to powder attacks and will be immune to attempts to irritate their eyes, be it through an attack like Acid Spray or a passive effect such as Sandstorm.

Aposteriori: I like this

Shed Shell- The attacks Mean Look and Block will fail once per battle when used on the holder.

Aposteriori: 4 slot syndrome does not exist within asb. Cure mean look via refresh or heal bell
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Old 05-07-2016, 07:24 AM   #15
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The only problem I have with White her as it's written is that you know exactly who has it so Sassoon as they appear you can order "lolGrowl" or "lolBabyDollEyes" and waste it on the spot, which makes it worthless.

@Apos on Shed Shell: You do know that those moves do not have universal distribution, correct? This is a good option for those who don't.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:00 AM   #16
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So my opinion about items is pretty much the same as Kush's. If they're not going to meaningfully contribute to current gameplay, I'm not sure I want them. Consider that most of these items will probably contribute to a really narrow play, which is generally not a good thing for ASB.

I think it's an interesting idea but it's hell to balance most of these.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:10 AM   #17
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Agreeing with Jeri. Certain ones will have a legitimately healthy effect on ASB (the weather related ones will diversify the play of certain types to an extent) but overall most of these just smack of "would be nice to have" as opposed to being a healthy addition. Not to mention if we have one, there will be cries to have all.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:35 AM   #18
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I mean I swear they're only a thing so that Thief and Covet aren't completely worthless.

Also Apos, fairly sure that boosts still cap at 25% max from SCs, boosted moves and tokens. Plus, Refresh and Heal Bell have terrible distribution, which is why they cure basically everything.

imo, keep White and Mental Herbs, plus weather rocks, maybe with instant-activation instead of 7 turns, because 7 turns usually spills over to the next matchup.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:43 AM   #19
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Fair enough! I knew many of the ideas weren't all that great- it's what happens when you try to make items for a game you have next no experience looking at from the perspective of balance xp

In regards to what Kush/Connor/Jeri are saying, if any of them (or anyone else who has a really knows of the kinds of things that would be healthy to implement) would be willing to draw up guidelines or something that would give me (or anybody else) something to work with besides the game's descriptions and minds geared toward writing signatures without care for balance, then it would probably be far easier to come up with ideas that don't suck. Though of course I know by and large they have better things to be doing and it could be argued at that point they're making the items themselves which sort of defeats the point of this thread :v

Really, I just think it'd be a good idea to have more items than almost completely unused type tokens and incredibly limited holiday tokens. Certainly wouldn't hurt to have things worth buying that cost less than 20 SP, either.
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:31 PM   #20
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I'll just come out and say it. If you guys don't want or like an item, ban the discussion. A lot of Smogon's conversation have a ban list of discussions. It is not unhealthy for the community to know what topics have been hashed out or discussed and we have established what does not work. Fear of how the long term could be impacted by a drastic change like this one should at least be tested out in theory. Let's ask the tough questions and figure out what would make them not work, and not viable for our current affairs.

Can we first discern which items are deemed not valued because of them being ineffective, overpowered, or not healthy for asb as a whole, have a discussion about them (in a separate thread), so as a positive consequence we can collectively hash out what we want and don't want with key specific reasons?

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Old 05-07-2016, 03:51 PM   #21
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These all sound like sig / badge effects...
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Old 05-07-2016, 04:52 PM   #22
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Well. Yes. Badges are items.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:19 AM   #23
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I agree that most of these are not very good/balanced/fit for ASB but some stuff like Big Root or Shell bell seem not too bad. Small tokens that give a little boost to certain play styles might work.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:14 AM   #24
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Alright this struck me as a bit off when i noticed it today. When Jeri brought up the new sig guidelines, this was a part of it

Entry Hazards
Entry hazard can only have a single effect, be it damage, a status, a boost or drop or a similar effect. They must be clearable by conventional hazard clearing moves and be directly targetable and destroyable by moves of good or greater damage.

I know stealth rock can be destroyed by directly targeting it, but good damage is a little bit low in my opinion. Stealth rocks and other entry hazards are far from game breaking like they are in comp. Not a lot of pokemon even care if stealth rocks is up, is going to hit you for moderate damage if its neutral and considerable if its 2x effective, which is barely anything in the long run. They cost significant energy to set up as well. On top of that defog and rapid spin are fairly well spread, defog being on close to 50 fully evolved mons and rapid spin about 20.

I have two suggestions. The first is we make it that hazard moves are as strong as the energy used to create them, that way they atleast become more efficient. The other is we totally remove the ability to directly target them and limit there removal to the attacks designed to remove them being rapid spin and defog.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:32 PM   #25
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oh yeah how does that work with entry buffs? If entry buffs are super easy for the opponent to remove that matters
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