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Old 07-18-2013, 10:23 AM   #1
deoxys
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When did the 'Golden Age of Pokemon' end for you?

Or is it still going?

I ask because I had a chat with McSweeney and about how he couldn't handle Pokemon as anime anymore somewhere in the Johto chapter, so it got me thinking...


And I had to think about it for a while. But after deliberating it, I'm pretty sure I can safely say the 'golden age' of Pokemon ended for me with the episode "Gotta Catch You Later", the second final Johto episode. Brock and Misty part ways with Ash (temporarily for the former) and the whole episode for 13 year old me was incredibly emotional. Hell, I even just went back and watched it and it was still fairly emotional (and it left me a bit nostalgic to want to rewatch the series). But now, for me, I think it's more because of how Pokemon has changed and because how the episode pretty much signified the end of an era.

Of course, I continued to watch after that point, but it was downhill from there. Somewhere around the middle of Hoenn, TPC took over anime dub rights from 4kids and no kidding, I was unable to keep watching the show. The voice changes, at the time, were so awful that I just couldn't stand it, and I was forced to stop watching (for lack of a better term).

I still enjoy everything else Pokemon related, but as far as Pokemon as a whole goes, I think the 'golden age' for me lasted between when it debuted in the US and the Johto finale. I think I can safely say a piece of the fan in me died.


Anyone with me on this? What about you?
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:02 AM   #2
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For anime: Ash winning the Orange League.

For games: Not sure if it's happened yet, but I think retrospect might give HGSS that honour.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:27 AM   #3
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Anime: I quit watching somewhere right around the 200th episode (somewhere between when Brock meets a girl who for the first time has a crush on him rather than the other way around, which I did see as a kid, and when Ash & Company meet Jasmine, which I did not), so I guess you could say that my answer is pegged for around there. But to be honest, I feel like in a lot of ways the "golden age" of the experimental anime was Kanto, so strictly speaking I think it ended with Ash's loss to Ritchie due to Charizard's nincompoop ways during the League tournament. From that moment forward, you knew you were no longer watching a self-contained saga but were instead unwittingly watching a never-ending cash cow show not unlike Jim Henson's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

That's not to say that Kanto is perfect (it's not, as a raw revisit circa 2009 clearly proved for me) nor that later seasons didn't bring improvements to the production. Just that the golden age of anime wonder, the time when the anime could barely ever do any wrong, was probably just the Kanto stretch. And the anime definitely jumped the shark for me sometime mid-Johto when I dropped it.

Video Games: I feel like the "golden age" was probably RBYGSC. The thing is, in America, those releases were all relatively back to back and so in a lot of ways they were sort of a single generation of gamers' generational experience. You had Red and Blue in Fall 1998, Yellow in Fall 1999, and Gold and Silver in Fall 2000. In just two years, you had two generations. Because they then took three years to roll out the next generation of games (ignoring 2001's Crystal, which I personally didn't get), releasing Ruby and Sapphire in 2003 at the end of my senior year of high school, I definitely feel like Gens 1+2 were sort of "co-packaged" as "my childhood Pokémon experience."

Gens 1+2 work as a co-package in a lot of ways, a lot of ways which illustrate why they might deserve to be called the Golden Years of Pokémon gaming. For one, these were the games which predated limited EVs. Oh sure, we had effort points before too, but back then you could achieve maximum effort in every single stat. As a result, all this really meant for most of us was "Make sure you fight 200+ enemies in each of the known categories." People would fight 200+ ghosts at Lavender Town for Special (and later Special Attack), 200+ rocks inside caves for Defense, etc. You didn't have to meticulously, anal retentively track your EV investment because the goal was essentially (in modern terms) "255 EVs in every column! " This changed with Generation III, and I think it can be alleged that this is the single greatest cause for the rift between casual Pokémon fans and more hardcore ones. Not creature tiers. (Those were always there.) Not competitive movesets. (Likewise.) But this infernal EV nonsense from Generation III onward where you could only have 510 EV points and where the game didn't bother telling you this or how to best make use of those EVs, thus leaving you (if you were a casual fan) to fucking fail at Pokémon from then on whenever you fought your game-breaking nerdy friends or cousins.

Another way Gens 1 and 2 work as a co-package is visually. They're pretty much the exact same visuals, even if Gen 2 technically might have looked a little better on the Super Game Boy and technically had Crystal and its Game Boy Color-utilizing color pallet. The move to Gen 3 was a huge visual leap, and while it was an improvement, no doubt about it, it does sort of put a huge gulf in between Gen 3 and its nearest predecessor.

Don't get me wrong. Gen 3 to this day is probably my second favorite generation right behind Gen 1. (Although I have to admit that HeartGold is probably my favorite single game of them all and that White 2 is trying to give it a run for its money.) But I do think that, as far as golden age talk is concerned, the golden age for the games did pass already and it passed a long time ago -- with the end of Generation 2 and the dawn of Generation 3.

TCG: I don't think this even needs saying, but I may as well: when Wizards of the Coast lost the license rights to the Pokémon TCG. That's not to say that what Nintendo ended up doing with the game wasn't better (although that power creep ... ), just that me and pretty much everyone else I knew at the time abandoned ship when WotC lost the rights. None of us had any interest in buying Nintendo's cards. Also, it didn't help that I had virtually no one to play with IRL and so I was pretty much only ever a collector. The Nintendo takeover occurred right around the time I went to college, further pushing me away from buying Pokémon cards. It was around this same time (senior year of high school) that I started playing Magic: the Gathering; so by my freshman year of college, I was putting my TCG spending money towards Wizards' Magic and not Nintendo's PTCG.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:04 PM   #4
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I feel like the animé was fairly mediocre up until about mid Johto, then became pretty awful, and then D/P happened and it was suddenly much better. The games, obvious R/B glitches aside, became uninteresting to me after Gen III. Ruby and Sapphire were great. Diamond and Pearl, not so well designed.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:56 PM   #5
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I'm oretty sure I stopped watching the anime a few episodes into the RSE series and never picked it back up after that. I also agree with the general consensus of RBY/GSC being the golden age, but I think things have definitely picked up since the release of HGSS and BW/B2W2, which i enjoy playing just as much as GSC.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:43 AM   #6
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After Johto I didn't watch it as much. After the voice actors changed it became unwatchable.

For the games, it would be after gen 2. Like Talon I didn't get crystal. What did it for me was not all the changes Talon listed, but rather the fact I was now not able to get most of the Pokemon I had grown to completely love. No Mewtwo, no Ampharos, no Tyranitar, etc. There has never been as big of a kick in the balls from Nintendo then that in Pokemon history.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:05 AM   #7
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So it turns out my brother has been secretly watching pokémon anime for months, thinking I would make fun of him.

...

Lol.

Anyway, he stopped two episodes in to Hoenn because the voices made him angry, then skipped to D/P because I told him it was better.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:08 AM   #8
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I would say when Platinum came out. I was too poor to afford Pokemon until FR/LG/R/S/E, so as a result, FR and Emerald were my first games. I got really into it (joined SPPf and UPN) when D/P came out and did online trading and battling and shit, but then when Platinum came out, I lost my Pokeboner. I've played Black once and neither of Black 2 or White 2, so I don't remember a damn thing about Gen 5.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:33 PM   #9
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My Golden Age would be when I was in 4th and 5th grade, back when Emerald was the newest game. I still played DP when it came out, but after a year I lost my interest and stopped Pokemon all together until HGSS came out and rekindled my love.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:36 PM   #10
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Pokemon the anime died somewhere between Azalea Town and Goldenrod City, as I remember Ash's battle with Whitney as the clear "jump-the-shark" moment. The music wasn't memorable, the battle wasn't magical, and the plot events were cookie-cutter formulaic.

I think around that time, Falkner and Bugsy were running high level, higher evolution Pokemon than in the games, so Johto didn't really feel like a reset proper as we're accustom to seeing in each new area, but a continuation of the difficulty from Orange onward. Sure, Ash was a bit handicapped, ridding himself of Charizard and Pidgeot early, but he was still the reigning Orange League Champion.

But by Whitney, the full nerf was in effect, and my interest just suffocated.

For the games, the last ones I played were GSC. I dropped out after that, both because Lizardon disappeared and he was my primary source of ROMs/Emulators, and I just never grew up out of the Gameboy era.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:14 AM   #11
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Lil' Bluey

I stopped watching the animé towards the end of Hoenn (though my interest had started to wane when Johto concluded). Heard the new voice changes in a sample episode, decided not to deal with them. There was a period where I gave up Pokémon for a year, but that was due to other circumstances.

As for the games, I guess the only "golden age" for me was the GS era, since Silver is the only cartridge I ever owned a physical copy of. I enjoyed it a lot at the time, and have never had near the same new and exciting experience since. Sadly my game died and lost all my data, including the only team I bothered to raise to Lv. 100 and a TELEPORTing Scyther due to a glitch.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:31 PM   #12
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With the show? I stopped watching shortly into Johto, so I'll pick either Enter the Dragonite or Viva Las Lapras as the end of the golden age. As for the games, that ended after Crystal but is recently back as of Gen V which I love. That said LeafGreen is probably my favourite game, but remakes aren't going to make up for the rubbish main games of Gen III and IV.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:39 PM   #13
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Oh shit, this is about the show? Only ever saw episodes here and there. The last thing I remember watching was when Ash beat Claire, I think.
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Old 07-22-2013, 02:21 PM   #14
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for me, at least for the games, the interest is dying- X/Y will most likely be the last games I buy. but the golden days for me were G/S/C, and then it was rekindled by D/P/P. Pretty much I got bored, and while FR/LG were ok, R/S/E were kinda boring after a while in my opinion, never really go into them, but I can tell the spark is dying.


As for the anime, it's pretty much dead. the second half of Hoenn to D/P was awesome, but otherwise, it's kinda boring to me. I don't even watch except the gym/league episodes, and especially for W/B the ending has kinda turned my interest away.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:22 AM   #15
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Heh, my golden age is probably right now. I definitely did have a period back in 1999 when I was watching and playing every bit of Pokemon I could, but I think my move to college along with my greater understanding of the games means I have a lot more fun now than I did back then. Back then, I just spammed item glitch and grinded out a team of high level powerful Pokemon. I didn't really care about the games after I beat them, since there wasn't much to do beyond catching every Pokemon and beating Red. Nowadays I have Nuzlocke runs, type runs, etc. to give the games more replayability. Also, I can trade Pokemon online now. That's awesome!

I'd say Black 2 is probably my favorite Pokemon game so far; it has a fantastic amount of stuff and while it's easy even on Challenge Mode, at least it's not insultingly easy like Gold. Heartgold is a massive improvement on Gold, but I still prefer Black 2 more.

I'm very excited for XY. Hope it lives up to the hype.

As for the anime and card game, I never "gave" on the anime, I just stopped watching. Part of it was that I just rewatched old episodes on VHS, and part of it was that I just didn't watch much TV anymore. I did go see all three of the US theatrical release movies, though. The card game I abandoned when Wizards of the Coast lost the license, but it wasn't because they lost the license. From what I can tell, the game massively improved since the glory days of Plus Power Haymaker Slowking and Sneasel nonsense. No, the reason I stopped playing the card game was because another one, Magic the Gathering, managed to attract my attention. Played a lot of Magic back then. Still do!
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:44 AM   #16
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Meh. I loved DP and that was the golden age for me. The seasons before were okay-ish but DP was the most awesome(like seriously, he had the arguably strongest team then). BW killed my interest for the anime. I only picked it up when Dawn made her cameo, then dropped it before the awful league happen. I'm planning to get into it in XY since it looks 1000 times better.

Game wise, itll be DPPt for me. I dunno, again, they were the most interesting to me (those complaining about Mt Coronet should remember how annoying sea routes were, at least yo don'thabe the constantly fight Protect Pelippers). Anyways, HGSS was meh-ish. Interest died in BW. Rekindled in BW2 but my team sucked. RSE and FRLG was okay, and the originals were pretty 'original' ;)
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Old 03-12-2016, 03:24 PM   #17
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In terms of the anime, it was a combination of the generally poor Johto seasons, Ash letting Charizard/Squirtle go (you could literally pinpoint the moment Johto went downhill is right after his Kanto starters split up), all of the tedious filler that plagued the Johto arc, Misty losing most of her personality and becoming a stale and flat character, and the original trio more or less bombing and failing as a group.

Pretty much the whole reason Misty was given such an early permanent departure from the show, and why the original trio was completely abandoned as a group, all dates back to the poor reception of the Johto seasons when they were originally airing. Takeshi Shudo even confirmed he never thought Misty was a good enough female lead for the show, which kinda amuses me, because he didn't bother to do anything with her when she was around so its his fault.

The anime gets better in most of the arcs post-Johto, but its still the same show more or less so its always going to be repetitive either way.
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Old 03-17-2016, 04:10 PM   #18
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Oh boy...I'll have to admit right away that I had a long period from when I was 13 or so, until university freshman year, when I dropped Pokémon because of 1) "I'm too old for this kiddy stuff" that every teenager goes through and 2) other life issues.

Pokémon games: I had to share the Blue and Silver cartridges with my brothers so that most likely took some of the shine away from the experience, though I did and still do love Johto. Sapphire was my very first own copy of a Pokémon game, no one was accidentally deleting my saves or anything and I could actually do things for longer than a week at a time! My brother and I had a Link Cable and spent loads of time trading 'mons and (at my eager requests) mixing berries for PokéBlocks. Even with Alpha Sapphire I can still spend an embarrassing amount of time decorating my Secret Base, picking my Base Friends and collecting new furniture. I also have a love for Hoenn because of all the water. Yes, I LOVE CRUISING AND BOATS AND THE OCEAN. THERE'S NEVER ENOUGH CRUISE SHIP "LEVELS" IN POKÉMON. :'3

I had the pleasure of entering a second Golden Age at university with Gen V and Pokémon White. Now I'm even more OCD about keeping a complete PokéDex and collecting them all than I ever was as a child (when my entire circle of friends and classmates totaled 3 Pokémon games during Gen II). Via some stroke of insanity I'm also giving a shot at online tournaments and breeding the perfect versions of the 'mons I want. So I guess my second Golden Age is still going strong?

Anime: The Mon-less Years dropped me off the anime as well, with Hoenn episodes being the last ones I recall having seen on a regular basis. I caught up to the anime as much as I could (in original Japanese whenever possible, I cannot stand the English dub, and the Finnish dub went downhill after Johto in terms of writing). Gained interest in the anime at Gen V but haven't kept up with it on a regular basis since. Probably should do that.

TCG: Now with the TCG I had the biggest Golden Age - in grades 5 and 6. Being the only person capable of understanding the game instruction manual, which was only available to us in English at the time, I was welcomed with open arms into the big group of boys who wanted to play the game (other girls just wanted the cute and pretty cards). All those hours playing and trading and comparing cards and strategies... *nostalgic sigh* those were the days.

That unfortunately ended with the whole puberty thing (I SWEAR THE "GIRL COOTIES" THING IS THE WORST DURING PRE-TEEN YEARS) and the unfortunate fact that new cards were and still are expensive in Finland. Last I checked a single booster pack went for 5-6 euros and I really don't have the interest anymore. I still have my TCG-cards in neat, organized folders and piles and such in my apartment - just couldn't leave them to get messed up or traded away for fodder in the hands of my little brothers. Guess that Shiny Wigglytuff card is a trophy and representative of the best years of my childhood.

My GOD these nostalgia goggles.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:36 AM   #19
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Anime: When BW started.

Games: Playing XY again made me realize just how boring it was.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:12 PM   #20
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:49 PM   #21
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Anime: Never watched it.

Games: OR. The first Pokemon game I've played that I think I can truly call 'bad', especially in comparison to the rest of the series.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:54 PM   #22
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Anime: The best episodes were over once Misty left as I feel no other companion has filled her shoes too well. But it outright died once Brock went and they shoved in a replacement that exponentially the cool part and took out everything else.

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Old 03-19-2016, 12:27 AM   #23
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Anime: The best episodes were over once Misty left as I feel no other companion has filled her shoes too well.
Misty was never a particular good character after Orange Islands though. Unless you thought Misty doing nothing but clutching Togepi in her arms for 90% of Johto's episodes was interesting.
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Old 03-19-2016, 01:10 AM   #24
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Anime: Mid-late Gen 4 was when my interest in the anime fell off and although I continued to watch it the golden age had passed by that point with a combination of age and having gotten tired of the repetitive cycle the anime has and still has having grown stale for me. My interest was briefly rekindled in early gen 5 episodes as the anime took a turn to the more serious side with even Team Rocket pulling out the "bad ass" card, sadly they didn't stick to it and things just devolved as the season went on. Plus fuck Cylan man, his need to incorporate food terminology into everything was cringy as heck for me.

Games: It's a rollercoaster of "holyshit this is awesome" to "Where's my post game" dependent on the game.
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:57 PM   #25
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Anime: The end of Master Quest. Man, I still remember watching Misty and Brock part ways with Ash. The tears just would not stop coming! But I didn't stop watching. I still obviously watch XYZ and enjoy it lots. So much, that I can imagine that I'm going to be pretty bummed when the series ends.

As for my sister- well I literally had to force her to watch DP with me- you can probably guess that she hates everything but Pokeshipping and all that jazz

Games: Well I was never really big with the games, but I'd say Y is the most enjoyable. I still haven't finished HeartGold yet.... well there you go
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