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Old 01-02-2016, 07:32 AM   #26
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Okay, here's the dump of the edits I made. Thanks to Sneasel and whoever helped him for putting the list together.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:52 AM   #27
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They're looking good. Thanks Jeri. I know how much of a hassle it can be.

Sorry to bring it up, just one small thing on Sableye spells its name wrong.

Sableye (Dark/Ghost): While Sableye are usually solid, they can go invisible for a short amount of time, though the glint of their eyes remains visible to a keen eye. Sabelye can also go ethereal for a few seconds to lessen damage from physical attacks. They cannot levitate at all but are excellent climbers, possessing dexterous limbs and a strong grip. Due to Ghost not providing immunity, they are considered weak to the Fighting type. Due to their keen eyesight, Sableye's accuracy cannot be lowered. In its Mega Form, Sableye dons a giant red ruby, using it to block attacks. The gem is rather large and heavy, and can be used to defend against attacks. Using a move, it use it to absorb energy from an attack, but due to its connection to the gem, it still takes 50% damage. It also has reflective properties, reflecting light from light-based attacks.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:05 AM   #28
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Dodrio seems to be up in the air still (or...the opposite of that), so I kinda want to weigh in.

Sneaking up on your opponent is kind of a strange playstyle and the only times I would consider using it would be if I was a ghost...and could go invisible, in which case Dodrio would not be able to see me.

Perhaps a resistance to being fooled or tricked (feint attack, covet, sucker punch, attract) would be a better SC?
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Old 01-08-2016, 01:23 AM   #29
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Mandibuzz (Dark/Flying): The bones around their waist act as a defensive buffer, giving it a slight boost in defense for all attacks that hit around that area. Much like Cubone's helmet, it can break and be replaced for a 1 SP fee or a stay in the Pokémon Center.

Vullaby (Dark/Flying): The bones around their waist act as a defensive buffer, giving them a slight boost in defense for all attacks that hit around that area. Vullaby's small wings make it a slower flier than most. Much like Cubone's helmet, it can break and be replaced for a 1 SP fee or a stay in the Pokémon Center.

Cubone (Ground): A Cubone's face is covered by a skull, which it will not remove willingly. If the helmet is shattered, it will cost 1 SP or 1 battle for Cubone to go and find another. Cubone may not use its respective bone attacks if it is not holding its bone. Its Skull Bash attack takes slightly less energy than normal to use. Cubone can see in the dark.

Marowak (Ground): A Marowak's face is covered by a skull, which it will not remove willingly. If the helmet is shattered, it will cost 1 SP or 1 battle for Marowak to go and find another. Marowak may not use its respective bone attacks if it is not holding its bone. Its Skull Bash attack takes slightly less energy than normal to use. Marowak can see in the dark.

Spoink (Psychic): Spoink are constantly bouncing on their springy tails and are therefore excellent at using Bounce. They will use the attack much quicker then normal and can Bounce much higher then normal. They are also very agile. Spoink's pearl boosts their Psychic abilities and allows them much greater proficiency with telekinesis as well as a slightly higher offensive power with Psychic moves. However, they will be weakened when away from it. The pearl can be lost or broken, and will require a 1 SP fee to purchase a new one.
I don't know if this has been brought up already, but the 1 SP / 1 Battle thing is pretty dumb and should be removed. It adds nothing of value to the Pokemon, and you should not be forced to spend SP on a Pokemon in this manner. For an example of why this is bad: If some asshat took my Spoink's pearl and threw it into say lava, deep water, a cliff, or any place where I cannot reach it, I would have to pay SP from my own pocket to replace it. That is not ok.
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Old 01-08-2016, 01:48 AM   #30
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I don't know if this has been brought up already, but the 1 SP / 1 Battle thing is pretty dumb and should be removed. It adds nothing of value to the Pokemon, and you should not be forced to spend SP on a Pokemon in this manner. For an example of why this is bad: If some asshat took my Spoink's pearl and threw it into say lava, deep water, a cliff, or any place where I cannot reach it, I would have to pay SP from my own pocket to replace it. That is not ok.
You do have to realize that this should only be applying to realistic battles, where 1+ battle stays at Pokecenters or outside of battle were/are pretty common since injury is usually the aim. That being said, even if it isn't removed, it should really be made consistent across so that, for example, Spoink has an alternative such as the turn out of battle/Pokecenter stay to get its pearl back rather than being forced to spend an SP to regain it.
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:27 PM   #31
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-The current full text of the SC, highlighting any problem areas

Ducklett (Water/Flying): Ducklett are only decent swimmers, able to stay underwater for a time but are not very mobile while underwater. Their physical defence is slightly higher than other bird Pokémon and cannot be lowered. They have exceptional eyesight and enhanced accuracy which is very difficult to lower. Owing to their reputation for being distance fliers, they tire slower than other Pokemon. In addition, their powerful wings give them a x1.1 boost to all moves involving them.

Swanna (Water/Flying): Swanna are only decent swimmers, able to stay underwater for a time but are not very mobile while underwater. Their physical defence is slightly higher than other bird Pokémon and cannot be lowered. They have exceptional eyesight and enhanced accuracy which is very difficult to lower. Owing to their reputation for being distance fliers, they tire slower than other Pokemon. In addition, their powerful wings give them a x1.2 boost to all moves involving them.

-Any problems or issues (in bullet points or short paragraphs)
No inherent problems

-The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the SCs yourself)
I would like to suggest a hydration effect under rain in the same vein that the jumpluff line has leaf guard under sun. Its a minor unique niche that will increase the visibility of an easily forgotton Pokemon. Disclaimer: it is not a bid to include more ingame abilities, I just geniuly feel that Swanna is at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to picking it as a squad member. As mentioned in the past, only one member has ever bothered to add one long term and that was only until it was brought up to their attention that no one had one. It is unsalvageable even by Slash.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:13 AM   #32
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Okay, so the Smeargle SC in the Google Docs, I wanted to bring up.

Smeargle (Normal): Smeargle may use the move Sketch to permanently learn new moves. Smeargle may learn up to ten Sketched moves as a TL1 Pokémon. For each level that a Smeargle gains, it can learn an additional three moves, up to a maximum of 31 total Sketched moves (other moves which Smeargle can learn naturally do not count towards this limit). Moves which Smeargle has learned must be noted in the Miscellaneous Squad Submissions thread and recorded in the Pokémon’s biography. Moves can also be deleted freely using this thread. Smeargle may not Sketch the same move more than once without deleting it first and cannot Sketch signature moves or moves learned via signatures. The amount of off-type energy that Smeargle receives is proportional to the types of moves that it copies. Smeargle may also may use their tails to paint their surroundings or their foes. This counts as a move and can serve a variety of purposes, from marking gathering points to writing taunts that will enrage the opponent. Smeargle have sensitive hearing, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound based status attacks. They fight more enthusiastically in urban environments.

Okay, so I do have a few problems with this.

For one, if Legend moves are really the problem (which, as they are now, most aren't even close to a problem with this), then what needs to be banned is Legend moves being Sketched (and the Legend moves actually being made worth a damn to justify that). Honestly, if a Pokemon is sigged with a move, then they know that move. I've used the example before, and I will continue to do so, but if an Octillery is sigged with Water Shuriken, does it apparently somehow massively suck at using it? A Zangoose's sigged Cut is somehow imperfect compared to an Umbreon's Cut? It doesn't really make sense that way.

And an even bigger issue: even if we do a ban on Sketching certain things, this is not the place to put it. Putting it in Smeargle SC, instead of in Sketch's description, means that every Pokemon sigged with Sketch is not under those restrictions and is better at Sketch than Smeargle. Especially ironic in the face of some people saying Pokemon sigged with a move should only have a shitty handle on it.

Tl;dr: if Legend moves are the issue, just ban Legend moves from being Sketched (but really, only if they get made good enough to justify it), and this belongs more in the Sketch description anyway, lest Sketch sigs > Smeargle's natural Sketch.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:14 AM   #33
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Alternatively do what we should have done when we made Conversion and Conversion2 exclusive and make Sketch unable to be Sigged onto things. Problem solved.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:33 AM   #34
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This idea was brought up in sig court, and the end result seemed to be "no".

EDIT: Also, we didn't make them exclusive. We made the specific effects exclusive, but the moves are siggable and Sketchable with other effects
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:07 PM   #35
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Legend moves are not the issue why would anyone think that. It's not 2011 is it?
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:09 PM   #36
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No the end result was that we did not discuss it.

It is by far the fairest and most sensible answer.
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:20 PM   #37
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Then perhaps you'd like to tell me what the actual issue is? Because I ain't seeing anything really wrong with being able to Sketch sigged moves. I'm not sure why seeing Pokemon A use an Ice Punch and seeing Pokemon B using an identical one makes only one of the two able to be copied.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're going to say it's about things like Defend Order, which are great moves assigned to bad Pokemon, then we've already started taking steps to make them only that great when on such Pokemon, making them still good-but-not-OP moves on others. We did it with the Conversions, we've done it to Defend Order.
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:59 PM   #38
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Can we just agree that Sketch should join Transform in the "no you can't sig on to things don't be dull" pile and move on with our lives?

Don't get me wrong, I have owned a Sketch Unown, but it is just a dull sig that is inherently designed to be exploited. Unless the owner is not super bright it is inherently something that will end up broken.

What you are basically saying is "I wish to sig this Pokémon with a number of powerful moves that I will choose at will, far above and more varied than the usual number of moves I could add by sigging, and the only drawback is that I must convince 3-4 fellow ASBers to have a 2 vs 2 with me and spend 4 rounds using Sketch on things".

Just close it down and move on.
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:18 PM   #39
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For pokemon that are sketching outside of smeargle, why not simply limit the moves they can sketch to pokemon within their respective egg group or to moves that pokemon of their type know as a move. For example, my Chatot should not be able to sketch Sacred Fire because no other pokemon within his egg group knows it. Alternatively, Chatot also cannot learn Sacred Fire before not a single normal or flying knows the move, but he still can learn ice beam or thunderbolt or flamethrower or other moves that normal or flying types do have.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:23 AM   #40
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Smeargle, like Ditto, has a signature move it knows and only knows that move. Giving it to any other Pokemon, no matter how shitty they are, really comes off as a "build your own Pokemon" deal at worst, and "gain 15 moves of any type and have no/minimal drawbacks" at best.
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:48 AM   #41
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I've been thinking and I really can't remember why we ever let people sig Sketch. There's absolutely no benefit from a policymaking point of view.
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:35 PM   #42
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Not everything has to be politics, dear.
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:49 PM   #43
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Actually it does.

But even if it didn't, that's not what I meant. Policymaking =/= politics. From a game design point of view, to put it another way, it is only detrimental to allow the sigging of Sketch to things (even if they are stuff like Metapod). You allow them to have something that already is available through other means (sigging new moves onto Pokémon) but you don't have any control over what they get, you don't have any control over the emergent behaviour that will inevitably result and you diminish the gimmick of a frankly not that great Pokémon in Smeargle (though it does now come with more off type than Vileplume, hilariously).

The only advantages you get in allowing people to sig Sketch are that people can have fun building custom movesets for things, and fun is good (!), but then it would also be fun for me to have a Dragonite sig that was an Omni-Hurricane that dealt major damage for moderate energy. What it would not be is sensible for you to let me have it. If people want to have custom movesets they should have to get them like the rest of us.


Kuno is right. We should not allow the sigging of Sketch any more than we should allow the sigging of Transform. These moves are not the same as Conversion or Defend Order, they are totally unique moves that fundamentally throw away basic foundations of the way ASB works and should therefore only be allowed on the gimmicks they were meant for.

To put this another way, letting people sig Sketch is like having an offer that said to people "you may go into this Walmart branch and take away any 10 items free of charge, I don't care about the implications." Yes, that person could take 9 loaves of bread and a jar of nutella, but what they're actually going to do is take TVs, steaks, booze, assault rifles because what is wrong with America, etc.

Last edited by Mercutio; 01-28-2016 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:02 PM   #44
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Bullying Josh is fun but maybe we should go ahead and make Poison types immune to Poison now. Even stuff like Bulbasaur and Venonat really shouldn't be susceptible to this status.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:05 PM   #45
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If we're doing that, can we get Electrics to be immune to electric paralysis? Like I know bias and all that but come on now it's more than a little silly that Electrics are susceptible to it when Grounds aren't.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:11 PM   #46
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They are in the proposed new SCs.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:14 PM   #47
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They are in the proposed new SCs.
[Electric]: Electric types are resistant to paralysis inflicted by Electric-type moves, though they may be paralysed as normal by other methods. Electric types do not suffer from recoil damage when using Electric attacks in the water. They have a high degree of control over their Electric type attacks, and as such they will suffer less from attempts to redirect them.


Immunity =/= resistance
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:19 PM   #48
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Well suck my ridges.
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Old 02-06-2016, 06:54 PM   #49
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Poisons should be immune, electrics should be highly resistant.
Also, in regards to this we're planning on wrapping this up, so if you all have any last minute revisions, we're going to be accepting them for 24 hours more, meaning that at about 8 PM EST on the 7th this thread will be closed and we'll be implementing the new SCs soon after.
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Old 02-06-2016, 06:59 PM   #50
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-The current full text of the SC, highlighting any problem areas

Empoleon (Water/Steel): Empoleon are very proud Pokémon and will not be discouraged easily. If their attack fails, they will become more energetic and have a 10% chance of getting a slight boost to both attack and special attack. They have a fine layer of down that allows them to swim in cold water comfortably and endure freezing temperatures and have sharp edges to their wings granting a slight boost to slashing attacks. They are also familiar with the Flying type. As starter Pokémon, their Water-type attacks are slightly more powerful when they drop below 1/4 health.

-Any problems or issues (in bullet points or short paragraphs)
No inherent problems

-The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the SCs yourself)
1)Can the the sharp edges be expanded to its trident?
2a)Some sort of stipulation that moves which involve headbutts/ramming have slight more power a la Dewgong?
2b) If 2a is a go, some sort of stipulation that moves which involve headbutts/ramming having a slightly higher chance to flinch?

--

-The current full text of the SC, highlighting any problem areas
Vanilluxe (Ice): Vanilluxe can move quickly over the ground in short distances through slight levitation and bursts of mist, lacking in agility and possessing a lower flight ceiling when compared to other levitating Pokémon. The Vanillite line, being made primarily of Ice, can easily manipulate ice and water, able to produce mists and fogs with great ease and summon up water or ice based attacks faster than others. Their Hail attack is far more effective than normal, starting faster and dealing mild damage to any non Ice-types on the field for each round it is used. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind. Their Blizzard attack is more powerful than usual, and won't tire them as much to use.

-Any problems or issues (in bullet points or short paragraphs)
-It has always had its levatation nerfed

-The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the SCs yourself)
I wont particularly drop it because I think it looks hilarious. They are not shown in the anime to be particularly low at levitating. This nerf discourages the use of a fairly underwhelming ice pokemon that will probably be added more as a gimmick.

--

-The current full text of the SC, highlighting any problem areas
Snubbull (Fairy): Snubbull are proud Pokémon and more susceptible to moves that induce anger. However, they are also resistant to fear-inducing effects. Their hearing is more sensitive than normal, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound-based status moves, and they have an excellent sense of smell which allows them to track opponents and tell the real clone in a Double Team. Snubbull's biting attacks are 1.1x more powerful.

Granbull (Fairy): Granbull are proud Pokémon and more susceptible to moves that induce anger. However, they are also resistant to fear-inducing effects. Their hearing is more sensitive than normal, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound-based status moves, and they have an excellent sense of smell which allows them to track opponents and tell the real clone in a Double Team. Granbull's biting attacks are 1.2x more powerful.

-Any problems or issues (in bullet points or short paragraphs)
-No inherent problems

-The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the SCs yourself)
-Thematically speaking, dogs are domesticated; can they be less hindered by urban environments?

Last edited by Aposteriori; 02-07-2016 at 11:31 AM.
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