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Old 03-28-2015, 02:00 PM   #151
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Oh we all know Gigalith is a shit TL4 Pokemon that's for some reason up there and but comparing it to Sudowoodo when they have vastly different playstyles is a little shit.

Gigalith is a worse Golem, honestly.

EDIT: Sudowoodo is actually decent. It's not Wormadam bad.
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:19 PM   #152
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tbh, I think Druddy really does want TL4, but I can live with it being at TL3 if we want TL3s to get to use a good dragon. I mean, we did just give them Noivern, Dragalge, and Tyrantrum... but Druddy is easily a step above them.

As poor as Sudowoodo comparisons are, Gigalith kinda does want TL3. It'd be a good TL3 pick, but right now it's really not fitting in at TL4. Can work there... but TL3 is better for it.
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:09 PM   #153
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Yeah but it has the whole ridiculous weight thing which would make it very powerful at TL3. Most TL3 'mon can't stand that weight.
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:12 PM   #154
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But the weight is pretty much it. it heavily screws over TL3 fliers now that Gliscor is gone, and most bugs can't handle it. However, Gigalith doesn't really have much to it next to sit on it. I feel like it is a horrid tl4 but a mid-high tier tl3
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:13 PM   #155
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It's not that difficult to beat sit on it.
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:18 PM   #156
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Safeguard, Protect, and Teleport all become relevant. Gigalith doesn't even have natural access to body slam which makes it miss out on the chance to inflict some nasty paralysis.
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:31 PM   #157
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TL3 has Hariyama and Tyrantrum. Plus a few of the heavy ices like Beartic. Gigalith's size isn't exactly revolutionary.
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:34 PM   #158
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Oh, no natural access to Body Slam? Oh, never mind then. D:
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:42 PM   #159
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Yeah please don't shit all over Sudowoodo because while not great, it's not complete and utter shit like some of y'all seem to think.

That said, I see Gigalith as borderline. I'd honestly say low TL4, personally.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:14 PM   #160
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Gigalith's weight is certainly not incredible, there are a few TL3s that are fairly heavy. Also its movepuddle is much more limited than a lot of TL4 rocks, and randomly having Gravity and Flash Cannon doesn't make it TL4 quality imo. I think Gigalith deserves TL3, even if its fairly good in TL3.
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:00 PM   #161
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Also listed a bit high in my mind is Malamar - it's really lacking in the moves and I don't think the few tricks it has up its sleeve justify its level, especially when considering how it stacks up to most other psychics and darks at level 3 (Hypno, Exeggutor, Shiftry, and Grumpig are just a few that are much more versatile than Malamar).
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:57 AM   #162
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Okay I've reviewed the majority of the stuff in the thread.

Druddigon I agree is TL4 material. Malamar and Gigalith I can both see going to TL3.

Slowbrothers I am on the fence. I can understand the TL5 argument but don't absolutely see them there myself. Needs discussion.

Gallade is not coming down. It is quintessential TL5 as much as Garde is 4. Considering swapping Garde and Mime, but Gallade stays.

Chansey to 3 I can see.

Is there anything I missed. Bear in mind this isn't final.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:10 AM   #163
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I personally think that it would make sense for Slowbro to be Level 4, and Slowking to be Level 5. They have similar (And excellent, at that) movepools, with an abundance of both offense and support, and I would have seen them both as Trainer Level 5 Pokemon, if not for their Species Characteristics. They do have five weaknesses, but can easily cover all of them. In my opinion, Fighting (Brick Break, many strong physicals), Fire (Burns) and even Ice (Freezing, reliably achieved through Ice Beam) are among the more valuable resistances.

Slowbro takes extra time to react. Even if the difference is not extreme, it makes it more difficult for it to use its defensive movepool, and react to orders in general. Considering how valuable taking advantage of an opponent's orders can be, this can hold it back. Meanwhile, Slowking has every advantage Slowbro has in this regard (Other than the delay in reaction to interruption), with a mental resistance superior to even most other Psychic Types. But Slowking actually does not suffer from a delay in reaction time, which is much more difficult to fix than mobility (Which can be remedied by using moves like Surf to move, Trick Room, etc.), something I consider to be an advantage Slowking has over Slowbro. Mobility, at worst, will limit Slowking to certain playstyles, but inferior reaction time will be more problematic across the board. And Slowbro moves slowly, too.

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Old 07-16-2015, 12:20 PM   #164
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I really think those differences are pretty negligible, especially considering Slowbro's Mega deals with mobility issues.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:14 PM   #165
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Slowbro is pretty excellent.

But who cares when we all kind of acknowledge that we need to squeeze another level in between three and four.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:51 PM   #166
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But who cares when we all kind of acknowledge that we need to squeeze another level in between three and four.
I think this is a terrible idea, for the record.
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:28 PM   #167
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*some of us believe that

This probably isn't the thread to be having the discussion.
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