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Old 02-15-2015, 05:31 PM   #51
Kuvario
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Originally Posted by Kindrindra View Post

Friendly reminder that uplevel Megas have the disobedience clause so this basically reads as "No Megas for TL1". Which isn't necessarily a terrible idea but it's something to keep in mind.
I do know about the disobedience clause, and I thought not that many newbies would risk that for an extra power boost. Unless they don't care about that.

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Originally Posted by Zelphon View Post
Can we just go ahead and make all the Grass starters not named Torterra/Venusaur TL3? They really aren't all that amazing and internal consistency is shitty justification.
Sceptile does have a decent move pool for a Grass starter though, and Chesnaught is better now that ORAS is implemented. But I agree, Serperior isn't really that great, same with Meganium. They seem like TL3 'Mons looking from their move puddles, the former especially.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:36 PM   #52
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Sceptile and Chesnaught are probably TL4.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:42 PM   #53
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Sceptile is in fairness overrated.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:49 PM   #54
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Oh man is it time for the "Is this pokemon actually good or is it just good when used by people who know how to use it and which one of these two variables should we primarily use for categorizing"? This is always the hard part.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:55 PM   #55
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I'm considerably less worried about a Beedrills centric newbie meta than the whole Mawile craze.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:04 PM   #56
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:15 PM   #57
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Oh yeah, not grass starters.

Can we please bump the following down to TL3:
Samurott
Typhlosion
Greninja

I'll admit Greninja may be pushing it a little given its speed but I feel like the other two just really aren't all that great, I'd also give an honorable mention to Emboar, but it could see a lot of weight abuse as a TL2 uplevel so that may now be wise.

Also can we bump Feraligatr up to TL5, it has an amazing movepool, pretty good typing and is like....7 Feet Tall (albeit it does weight less than 200 pounds)
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:22 PM   #58
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Honestly I can see all three of them (people who think Typhlosion is good are a little cray cray) but I think Samurott and Greninja is pushing it a tad. Just a tad.

Feraligatr is definitely not TL5.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:24 PM   #59
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> Zelphon

JF fucking C, man. That's terrible.
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:04 PM   #60
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Hey if Druddigon is TL4 then Feral is by scale, very easily a TL5 acquisition.

It has just about if not more typespam, an arguably better defensive typing, and is 7 freaking feet tall.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:14 PM   #61
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Why are we comparing Druddigon to Feraligatr?
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:20 PM   #62
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I had this same question
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:22 PM   #63
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Well Druddigon is a pokemon I've seen the most reasoning behind its being upped, and they are aside from less bulk abuse on Druddigon's end I'd argue they play somewhat the same.

If Druddigon and Feral are the same acquisition level something is a bit wrong imo.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:28 PM   #64
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Reminder everybody, Zelphon also thought Sableye should be TL5.

Gator is fantastic and excellent and I love him, and honestly it could be okay at TL5, but it's really more of a high end TL4 than a low end TL5.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:29 PM   #65
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Porygon2 to TL2, Porygon-Z maybe to TL4. Porygon2 gets a whole one new move and has almost the same SC as Porygon. Porygon-Z may also want to move down because floating heads isn't as good as it sounds and its movepool only gain a couple moves, even if they are actually relevant.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:40 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy View Post
Gator is fantastic and excellent and I love him, and honestly it could be okay at TL5
*shamelessly picks out the part of this post out of context to further own desires*
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:49 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy View Post
Sneazey and I would like to propose that we do TL fixing first, as changing that would have large effects on this.
I second this too, since the TL system is the foundation and then the Level Acquisitions is the next level.

But if we're having this discussion:

Flygon -> TL6 (Bug Buzz, Boomburst, extra Bug energy, etc etc)
Gengar- TL6
Kingdra -> TL4 (Fairy is a thing now, as well as Freeze-Dry)
Mawile -> TL3
Wigglytuff -> TL5
Volbeat -> TL3 (maybe? Pure Bug is alright, and it now gets Play Rough)
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:21 PM   #68
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if Volbeat goes up, Illumise probably should too, just because the consistency. But Volbeat isn't TL2. It's a great lower-level 'mon, but it loses its edge rapidly when things start to really evolve
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:23 PM   #69
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Consistency is awful justification and should never be used as such.
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:29 PM   #70
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I think it's reasonable for two such intimately-twined Pokemon, who count as the same species in a couple effects. But, anyway, Volbeat is still TL2
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Originally Posted by Sneezey12 View Post
KAIRNE I WILL RIP OFF YOUR SCROTUM AND FEED IT TO YOU THROUGH A FUCKING SWIRLY STRAW.
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:08 PM   #71
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>Starters

Serperior, Typhlosion, and Meganium I can definitely see at TL3. Greninja /possibly/, but definitely not Samurott. Samurott may not have Ground coverage but Megahorn, Superpower, and Air Slash give it enough toys to work with.

I mean maybe Samurott could pass for TL3 but it essentially does everything that Floatzel does but better.
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:10 PM   #72
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Um Illumise is pretty much the exact same; Growth is really good now so the disadvantage of losing Tail Glow isn't that significant.

Illumise and Volbeat move as a pair.
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:25 PM   #73
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People seem to think Illumise is suddenly worse than Volbeat. It's basically the same Pokemon. :/
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Zelphon - Today at 5:29 AM
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:51 PM   #74
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Serperior to TL3 good GOD. Consistency shmonsistency, you cannot tell me that something with just its stab, standard omni TMs, and some random tail off type moves is a passable TL4 mon. Especially not when its a pure grass SNAKE.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:46 PM   #75
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Oh man, almost forgot but Octillery. That thing's movepool is idiotically broad. Why was String Shot a fucking tutor move in HGSS? Idk, but for whatever reason they gave it to Octillery because hey, ink and string. Close enough.

Same with Slowbro/King, although they have worse typing. Good arguments for TL5 for the lot of them.
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