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Old 02-15-2015, 12:04 PM   #26
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Why exactly Vibrava to 4? It's not nearly as effective as Flygon?

Is this just for consistency's sake because I'm not buying it.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:07 PM   #27
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Why exactly Vibrava to 4? It's not nearly as effective as Flygon?

Is this just for consistency's sake because I'm not buying it.
idk 1-4-6 is just a nicer chain to me than 1-3-6. Granted I just copied it from my TL7 notes which would make it 1-4-7 so that was probably it.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:08 PM   #28
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Vibrava is unquestionably 3.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:12 PM   #29
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Sorry, why are we putting Magnezone to 4? The only real reason I can think of is that it's not *that* much of a boon over Magneton.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:22 PM   #30
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I feel like Magneton/zone Is one of those awkward cases that comes out of Gen IV where the evolution really doesn't bring anything around but the preevo is so good that you can't really justify pushing it down to make up for the gap.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:32 PM   #31
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Well I mean that actually happens right the way down to Magnemite, which you could argue should be TL2.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:32 PM   #32
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Bumping Beedrill up a level might be a good idea so every new ASBer doesn't immediately get a Beedrillite. Caterpie/uplevel normal Beedrill would probably be usable enough at TL1 to justify it and having TL1 megas is weird.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:38 PM   #33
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Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. It is consistent seeing as Heracross and Pinsir are Level 2 and their Mega Stones can be obtained from the start. And the idea of TL1's running around with non-uplevel Megas is an odd thought.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:42 PM   #34
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I'm all in support for TL2 Beedrill only because Mega Beedrill at TL1 seems a tad ridiculous. Yes I know "we should let the kiddies have Megas" but I think it will be a tad too much.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:43 PM   #35
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Well every time I say I think Beedrill is better than Venomoth I'm laughed at but I did suggest we bump Venomoth up a level so.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:58 PM   #36
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Staryu to TL2. Staryu is honestly too good for TL1, with insane coverage and an excellent support movepool that give it an almost embarrassing advantage against the vast majority of the level.

Nothing else jumps out at me at the moment, but expect more comments throughout the process.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:01 PM   #37
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Haxorus and Magnezone both to TL4. Mamoswine as well perhaps, though I'd like Connor's input on that. Fraxure then certainly deserves TL2 but I could see Piloswine and Magneton still wanting TL3 but eh.

Druddigon up to TL4. It's a pretty good pokemon. Deserves better than TL3.

If Gengar goes to TL6, consider Haunter for TL4. Similarly if Flygon goes to 6, consider Vibrava at 4. Kangaskhan, Quagsire, and Gliscor all can go from TL3 to TL4. I think we can consider moving Honchkrow to TL4, if only to separate it from Mandibuzz. Mandi certainly has some tricks of her own and is a pretty good pokemon, but idk. Just feel like a split is a good idea.

Sealeo to TL2. Boldore to TL2. Gurdurr to TL2. Palpitoad to TL2. Krokorok to TL2. Lampent to TL2. This is just a whole lot of fixing evolutionary chains from being 1-3-4 to 1-2-4. Unova has a bunch of weird ones like that. There are some that deserve 1-3-4 but these guys are not them.

Amoonguss to TL2 because oh god the bad. Dodrio to TL2 because oh god the bad. Zebstrika to TL2 because oh god the bad. Parasect also potentially TL2.

Elemental Monkeys could also go for TL2. I mean, I think they're okay at TL3 but idk, I'd consider TL2 for them.

Jiggly/Clefairy to TL3. Chansey to TL3. Heatmor to TL3.

Shuckle, Sneasel, Delibird, Bronzor, Audino, Emolga, Dedenne, Furfrou, Vivillon, Carbink, and Klefki all need to go from TL2 to TL1.

Rhyhorn and Dunspace then go to TL2.

That covers most of what I have to say that I don't think has been said yet. Later I'll go through on the other suggestions that have been made.
Almost everything here. Frax staying at TL3, Mamo at TL5. Vibrava stays TL3. I'd honestly rather keep Rhyhorn at TL1, too.

And some of my own:
Tentacruel to TL3
Lapras to TL6
Sableye to TL4
I could honestly see all the Eeveeloutions becoming TL2, but if one moves, they all need to.
Aerodactyl to TL4
Doublade TL2, Aegislash TL3
Vespiquen TL2, at most
Forretress to TL3, maybe
Gardevoir and Gallade to TL5
Obligatory Mawile to TL3
Bastiodon down to TL3
I know we did that thing where Pokemon evolved from babies had to be a higher level, but, come on, that was not altogether a great idea, Chimecho to TL1.
I know 1-2-6 isn't pretty, but Beldum is absolutely shit and Metang could probably fit as a good but not wonderful TL2
Excadrill to TL3
Sawk and Throh are probably TL1 material, speaking as a Throh owner.
Maybe bump 'fag down to TL2?
TL4 Garchomp
TL5/6 Absol. I doubt anyone would contest this seriously. Probably TL6
Reuniclus down to TL3 and Duosion to TL2. Reflect the Goth line.
Is Jellicent really good enough to be TL4? Might be more 3 material but I don't completely know
Noivern to TL3
Maybe make Ferrothorn TL3? Not sure to be honest
Heliolisk down to TL3
Gourgeist and Trevenant to TL3

Meganium and Serperior staying TL4 because internal consistency's sake

Just throwing out some ideas
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:02 PM   #38
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I still hold that Munchlax should be TL1 if Dunsparce can be TL1. Carbink too, it's completely terrible.

Zweilous TL2? The Fairy weakness is pretty bad.

(Don't make Gardy TL5 pls)
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:09 PM   #39
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Staryu and Munchlax to TL2 is probably not a bad shout. TL1 is not a small pool.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:09 PM   #40
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Crustle and a bunch of Gen VI shit could also be considered for 4 to 3. Heliolisk, Meowstic, Avalugg, Clawitzer, and Barbaracle all come to mind. Bisharp too.

Granted, the problem with this part of the TL spectrum is that a bunch of these things may want to change around based on what we do with the TL ideas.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:10 PM   #41
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Staryu to 2 feels weird, though I guess I understand it.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:18 PM   #42
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I did forget Meowstic, which I was going to mention, but I don't know anything about it.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:33 PM   #43
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Dragalge to 3 if nobody's said so already. Tutors did not help it nearly as much as expected.

Oh, and Hawlucha got blessed by the ORAS tutors so bring it to TL3.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:36 PM   #44
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We could also put Jellicent to TL3 really idgaf
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:14 PM   #45
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What about Diggersby to 4? I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet, and with the ORAS tutors it has the movepool of a normal without the nerf. It also has a pretty good offensive secondary type in ground. If we're talking of moving Kangaskhan, Druddigon, and Quagsire, talk of Diggersby might be worthwhile.

To clarify, here's what it gets from tutors:

Diggersby: Iron Head, Low Kick, Gunk Shot, Uproar, Thunder Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Earth Power, Foul Play, Last Resort, Superpower, Iron Tail, Snore, Knock Off, Focus Punch, Gastro Acid, Endeavor, Recycle, Snatch, Endure

Steel, Fighting, Poison, Electric, Fire, and Ice offtype on top of some decent support options without the normal nerf affecting it is kind of a big buff, and might warrant it going up a level.
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:48 PM   #46
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Diggersby is pretty solidly TL3, trust me.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:08 PM   #47
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Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. It is consistent seeing as Heracross and Pinsir are Level 2 and their Mega Stones can be obtained from the start. And the idea of TL1's running around with non-uplevel Megas is an odd thought.
Friendly reminder that uplevel Megas have the disobedience clause so this basically reads as "No Megas for TL1". Which isn't necessarily a terrible idea but it's something to keep in mind.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:11 PM   #48
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See I'd be more open to it Kin if Beedrill didn't open with like a 30% attack boost from the start. Mega Beedrill, while not having the best movepool, has a rather ridiculous SC and I dunno how I feel about that.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:23 PM   #49
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Oh yeah I'm pretty fine with 'drill being bumped up, I'm just saying for future reference on Megas as a whole (aka do we need to bump any other Megas down to make up for it or should Lv1 be a Mega-free affair?).


Although, on that note, we probably need to stabilize the discussion. What kind of pokemon do people think of as the archetypical power level for each TL? TL1 is obviously represented by first-stage pokemon and Maractus, but past that it gets muddled. Is TL2 a place defined by pokemon like Prinlup, or by pokemon like Bouffulant? And so on and so forth for each Level. And, since discussing this a little is kinda unavoidable if we hope to get this right the first go around, if we significantly raise the acquisition levels of pokemon to bring balance, does trainer leveling need to be made easier so that trainers don't have to wait to long to get their favorites? (If we're implementing TL7 and the like, I personally think the answer to this is a pretty resounding yes. The requirements to get to TL2 are probably fine as is, but the other levels might want to be bumped down a little if we fully dive into this division-based-on-balance.)
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:27 PM   #50
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Can we just go ahead and make all the Grass starters not named Torterra/Venusaur TL3? They really aren't all that amazing and internal consistency is shitty justification.
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