Online Competitive Pokemon Battle Showdown Happy Fun Times

[phoopes]

I would assume it's natural ladder decay. I don't actually know for sure what the formula is but there's been decay on the ladder whether it's been Elo or ACRE for a while. Whether it's what you listed, you lose x% of your points every day you don't play, or something else... that I don't know. But yeah if you leave your account untouched for a while your points go down.

[DaisyInari]

Where clutch Minun saves the day

My opponent had 3 dragons and the only way I could hit them super effectively reliably was with Minun's Hidden Power xd; I was waiting for the one moment where I could safely used Nasty Plot, and I finally found it in the end \o/

[DaisyInari]

In double post news, I'm now top 10 in Random Battles! We'll see how far I can get before I drop horribly xd;

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by DaisyInari

In double post news, I'm now top 10 in Random Battles! We'll see how far I can get before I drop horribly xd;

Congratulations!

After my last post, I got ~four or five losses in a row on Suisho. It catastrophically plummeted his Elo score down to the low 1500s. I've been winning roughly 2:1 since then and have finally managed to pull him back up above 1700, but getting him above 1800 will likely prove challenging. It's amazing that you've managed a score of 1898. I'd say you should definitely leave the account alone if you manage to secure 1st place but for the fact that we've discovered that Elo scores decay over time just like our old Challenge Cup scores decayed over time on P-O. So there's not much point in leaving them be, I guess. Speaking of score decay ...

Originally Posted by phoopes

I would assume it's natural ladder decay. I don't actually know for sure what the formula is but there's been decay on the ladder whether it's been Elo or ACRE for a while. Whether it's what you listed, you lose x% of your points every day you don't play, or something else... that I don't know. But yeah if you leave your account untouched for a while your points go down.

From my frame of reference, it's a recent change. It may be something that has been around since the release of XY last fall, but it definitely wasn't present as recently as late last summer. I know this because I got to 2nd place on Challenge Cup (I think with Juisho) and just left the account alone there from then on. It stayed put for weeks, possibly months, although it did fall from 2nd to 5th to 10th, etc. But the score never changed. It was still there the last day I checked, some time in September or maybe even October 2013 -- right before I went on hiatus because of how PS was incorporating Gen 6 moves and creatures.

Like you note, it doesn't appear to touch Glicko regardless of how long or short it's been around. I imagine that this will make Glicko a more popular score to look at (in between ladder resets, anyway) when players want to try and discern how good someone really is. Although blegh: Juisho's Glicko is only 1688. :\ Suisho's Glicko is 1767, but I've battled much less on that account. Sigh.

[Talon87]

Wherein one Tricked Choice Scarf isn't enough. (Random Battle; 46 turns)

This was one heck of a hard-fought tug of war. Me1 checked Him1, Him2 checked Me1, Me2 checked Him2, etc. It was one of those scenarios where whoever blinks first loses.

Wherein an ape, a zebra, and a badger-fox-rabbit-thing make a pact. (Random Battle; 19 turns)

Spoiler: show

Turn 13, I desperately needed him to leave Marowak out to buy Zangoose a free opportunity to Swords Dance. Swords Dance + Toxic Boost + Facade/Close Combat = yes please. But what to do?

I either was to send out Zebstrika or Infernape. Here was the thing: while both could be juicy targets for an Earthquake in theory, one was much better than the other.

• Zebstrika would scare the bejeezus out of Lumineon; and there wasn't much about it that Tyranitar would like either, even if the rock Godzilla wasn't weak to his STAB Electric moves. Furthermore, Marowak is immune to his STAB, forcing Zebstrika to strike with either Grass or Fire attacks, neither of which are ideal for the zebra user. (Overheat halves SpAtk and the HP:Grass is weak.)
• Infernape on the other hand would be more likely to motivate a switch. Lumineon is more than happy to eat a Fire Blast. It's also not scared of Grass Knot. It can reliably force a switch and set up rain during that same turn. So why leave Marowak in to kill the monkey (at the cost of consciousness) when you can have Lumineon do it for you?

Thus, if I really wanted my opponent to strike with Earthquake, Zebstrika was my best bet.

Now ... here's the thing: for all the reasons I just outlined, I want my Zebstrika to stick around. Infernape's not going to be much help against Lumineon and I can't count on Tyranitar being a sitting duck for Grass Knot. So if I have to pick someone to die, it's Infernape.

What to do then? Well, it's simple, really: send out Zebstrika at first but then immediately call it back for Infernape. If all goes according to plan, he stays put and Earthquakes me into oblivion. If not and he switches, then at least it won't be to an Infernape counter: it will be to a Zebstrika counter. And whether that's Tyranitar or Ursaring, Infernape would rather tussle with either of them over the Sinnoh fish.

I get my wish. Thank God, too: I had Reflect up thanks to Meowstic, and I realized too late that that could potentially cost me my strategy. But thank goodness for Infernape's ridiculously shitty physical defense that it did not! Zangoose gets a free switch in against a sleeping Marowak, outspeeds it, sets up Swords Dance for free, and proceeds to lay waste to four Pokémon in a row.

"Jesus." (Random Battle; 40 turns)

My Elo score is now 1770. Here's hoping I can keep it up and make 1800+!

[Talon87]

Triple post, apologies, but I've got a question for you, phoopes.

(Click for full size.)

My understanding with PS Random Battle movesets is this:

• a veteran member of the community drew up a list of vetted movesets for creatures
• an RNG determines which of these pre-made movesets you get

So like, Nasty Plot / Air Slash / Aura Sphere / Roost would be one Togekiss set with one random value and Air Slash / Aura Sphere / Thunder Wave / Roost would be another Togekiss set with a different random value. Which one you get is decided by the RNG.

Blaze was saying that the way it actually works is:

1. PS has established a list of 6-10 moves that are appropriate for any particular Random Battle creature.
2. An RNG assigns you your four moves as it pulls from this pool of 6-10 moves.

So for example, the Togekiss pool might contain Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Roost, Thunder Wave, Nasty Plot, Substitute, and Wish and it's up to the RNG to determine which four of these moves you're going to get.

Which one of us is correct, if either? And if it's me who's correct ... then can you please ask the staff to look into the Infernape pictured above? ^^; I've seen him twice (three special attacks + Swords Dance) and it's really dumb.

[Red Panda]

Comeback City

Spoiler: show

With the team I had, Weezing was a major pain. I had no psychic moves, and couldn't risk Gallade or Hippowdon in fear of burning. Vileplume had aromatherapy, but even it wasn't worth it. After the relicanth ordeal I was sure that it was over for me ^_^

[Talon87]

Smogon's officially announced a suspect test for Swagger. Yes -- just Swagger. To the surprise of virtually no one who participated in that farce of a suspect discussion thread.

They've also decreed that in order to get voting privileges this time, you'll have to manage an Elo of 1850 in the OU Suspect tier. Good luck with that. To put this score into perspective, regular OU currently has the 1850 cutoff at 43rd place on their ladder. That's right -- only forty-two players have a score of 1850 or higher in regular OU. And that's one of the most heavily trafficked tiers on the server. Now imagine how many fewer people will be participating in OU Suspect. And consider that every single person who manages to squeeze out a score of 1850 or greater is going to immediately retire so as to not lose their score. (Technically you only need to screencap your score, but most people drop out anyway once they qualify. That was the case last time.) As the pool of willing players dwindles, it will become that much harder to make the cutoff.

Last but certainly not least, Smogon has done away with suspect discussion threads open to the public. They've created a VIP forum called Victory Road that only authorized members may post in. And they intend to post all future suspect discussion threads there. Quoting straight off of Showdown's announcements:

Anyone who meets the requirements [for the suspect test] can vote, but only users with access to the Victory Road subforum for experienced players can discuss the suspect.

Given the wording of this PS announcement, it sounds like qualifying for the Swagger suspect test voting will not be enough to net you access to the VIP forum.

You can read more about Victory Road here and here. You can read the VIP Only discussion thread for banning Swagger here. It's worth noting that not everyone in the VIP thread is in agreement that Swagger should be banned. But as was witnessed in the previous discussion thread, the vast majority of the staff seem to be weighing in heavily against Swagger. I would expect the ban to be pushed through one way or another.

[SoS]

Swagger.

Swagger.

FUCKING SWAGGER YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS SMOGON

Goodbye any sense of credibility.

[Talon87]

Guess who just made 1811?



Hoorah! It's not Top 10 ... but hey, it's above 1800.

[rotomotorz]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Smogon's officially announced a suspect test for Swagger. Yes -- just Swagger. To the surprise of virtually no one who participated in that farce of a suspect discussion thread.

They've also decreed that in order to get voting privileges this time, you'll have to manage an Elo of 1850 in the OU Suspect tier. Good luck with that. To put this score into perspective, regular OU currently has the 1850 cutoff at 43rd place on their ladder. That's right -- only forty-two players have a score of 1850 or higher in regular OU. And that's one of the most heavily trafficked tiers on the server. Now imagine how many fewer people will be participating in OU Suspect. And consider that every single person who manages to squeeze out a score of 1850 or greater is going to immediately retire so as to not lose their score. (Technically you only need to screencap your score, but most people drop out anyway once they qualify. That was the case last time.) As the pool of willing players dwindles, it will become that much harder to make the cutoff.

Last but certainly not least, Smogon has done away with suspect discussion threads open to the public. They've created a VIP forum called Victory Road that only authorized members may post in. And they intend to post all future suspect discussion threads there. Quoting straight off of Showdown's announcements:

Given the wording of this PS announcement, it sounds like qualifying for the Swagger suspect test voting will not be enough to net you access to the VIP forum.

You can read more about Victory Road here and here. You can read the VIP Only discussion thread for banning Swagger here. It's worth noting that not everyone in the VIP thread is in agreement that Swagger should be banned. But as was witnessed in the previous discussion thread, the vast majority of the staff seem to be weighing in heavily against Swagger. I would expect the ban to be pushed through one way or another.

Ugh if I didn't have so much schoolwork I might fight my way up the OU suspect ladder just to say no.

[phoopes]

>Talon

Blaze is the correct one in the RandBat moveset thing. It's really dumb, I know, as you can get some trash movesets at times. Don't think there are any plans on changing it at the moment however.

Also, to better answer your question earlier about decay:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads.../#post-5317653
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads.../#post-5317907

EDIT:

Basically, I think you should have lost about six points of Elo for every day that your rank was over 1700, and four points a day for every day that you were over 1600 since you didn't battle on any of those days.

[Talon87]

Do I have a secret admirer? O.o Check out this guy's account name. Friends will understand the significance of the move selected.

[Princess Ana]

I wonder if that is more to do with Talonflame than you Talon ;p

omg people saying swagplay op

[Talon87]

No apologies. (Random Battle; 28 turns)

Spoiler: show

After the ridiculous string of bad luck I had throughout this match, I have zero apologies about pulling off a clutch 1-0 win in the end there with the help of some strategic switches and a lucky crit or two.

Rock Climb's accuracy: 85%
# of times I used it: 3
# of times it hit: 0
odds of missing three times in a row: 15% to the power of 3, or 0.3375%. Yes, that's percent: in decimal notation, it'd be 0.003375. Riiiiiidiculous.

Will-o-Wisp's accuracy: 90%
# of times used: 2
# of times it hit: 0 (but only one was a true miss; the other time he switched in a sleeper, so that's on me)
odds of missing once in a row: 10%

So overall, we're talking cumulative odds of ~3 in 10,000 that this bullshit would happen. And ohhhhh did it. So yeah: no apologies for Victini outspeeding Mega Garchomp thanks to RandBats' levels. No apologies for Shiftry tanking Porygon-Z's Dark Pulse like a champ. No apologies for that critical hit Leaf Storm at the end that did in Porygon-Z. None. None whatsoever. Fair is fair: I got a crit, yes, but I also missed four attacks that each had good odds of hitting.

[Kindrindra]

>Swagger Debacle

Why doesn't Smogon just make their NoHax clause their standard? It's where they're headed towards, anyways. Silly scrubs, unable to handle a little strategetic luck in their game.

[Rangeet]

I don't really think you can call a group that literally plays only to win scrubs. Rather they'd call you scrubs for introducing silly things like luck in a game. ;)

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Kindrindra

Silly scrubs, unable to handle a little strategetic luck in their game.

It seems to be less about inability and more about intolerance. It's not that they can't handle SwagPlay and similar strategies: it's that they don't wish to. The people in charge and the yesmen that they've surrounded themselves with have made it clear that what they want to craft is a metagame free of uncertainty -- or, more accurately, a metagame free of any elements which deny a player his agency.

Originally Posted by Kindrindra

Why doesn't Smogon just make their NoHax clause their standard? It's where they're headed towards, anyways.

I do agree with you here though. Smogon needs to quit pretending that they are a community centered around Nintendo handheld play and start acting like the community they've been since the days of RSBot: one which is centered around simulator play. The moment they admit to themselves the truth, the moment they can quit caring about crafting clauses that would be difficult (or even impossible!) for 3DS players to enforce and the moment they can start caring about modifying the game to match their vision.

[Jerichi]

>Rumors about Smogon banning Baton Pass teams

[Princess Ana]

>banning Baton Pass teams

never gonna happen.

[Jerichi]

I don't know why I even care about this anymore, considering the only format I've seriously played in Gen VI is VGC.

[phoopes]

Originally Posted by blazeVA

>banning Baton Pass teams

never gonna happen.

A few months ago, we would have said the same thing about Swagger.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Haunter

Something about nerfing baton pass MIGHT be done when the current test is over.

Direct link. Haunter is one of the people who runs Smogon. He's also described as being one of the most level-headed members of the OU Tiering Council. For him to even be entertaining the notion that Baton Pass is OP and needs to have its claws trimmed indicates that other members of the council would likely not bat so much as an eyelash at banning Baton Pass outright. This is why rumors about Smogon banning Baton Pass are reverberating across the Internet right now -- because a very high-ranking member of the Smogon community has lent legitimacy to cries for Baton Pass to be reigned in, a request for a trial so outrageous it should have been tossed out of court on sight.

[Princess Ana]

Originally Posted by phoopes

A few months ago, we would have said the same thing about Swagger.

Oh come on, this is implying the ban on Swagger actually makes sense and wasn't just the butt hurt complaints of a bunch of entitled ten year olds. We've already proven that Swagger isn't uncompetitive, yet no one wanted to hear it.

[Talon87]

Side note: Haunter's post has been liked by a number of asslickers and sympathizers. The asslickers I don't care about, but amongst the sympathizers' number we find Jukain and alexwolf. So you have veteran members of the Smogon community upvoting a post not to kiss Haunter's ass but because they genuinely support his message and want to make clear their support by way of publicly upvoting his post.

Originally Posted by blazeVA

Oh come on, this is implying the ban on Swagger actually makes sense and wasn't just the butt hurt complaints of a bunch of entitled ten year olds. We've already proven that Swagger isn't uncompetitive, yet no one wanted to hear it.

By the cherrypicked definition the staff offered in the SwagPlay discussion thread, we did show that SwagPlay was "uncompetitive." But using their definition of "uncompetitive," this was never even up for debate: obviously SwagPlay renders you paralyzed and confused without you being able to prevent it. You know what else you have no control over? Being forced out by Whirlwind. ("I DIDN'T ASK TO SWITCH OUT! HE MADE ME SWITCH OUT!") Being locked into the same move by Encore. Having a Choice Item Tricked onto you. There are so many things in Pokémon which the defending player has no power to prevent -- he can only switch strategically (e.g. switching to a Ground type to absorb anticipated Electric attacks), use Protect/Detect, or pray for hax. Happens all the fucking time. This is why their grounds for banning SwagPlay because of "uncompetitiveness" was so ridiculous: because of the gross double-standard they displayed, honing in on SwagPlay while ignoring far more egregious examples of strategies which deny a player agency.

But yes, we certainly demonstrated that SwagPlay is not unbeatable -- that it is in fact easily beatable with modest changes to one's team -- and that while certain team archetypes may be particularly prone to it (*cough* HYPER OFFENSE *cough cough*), other team archetypes merely laugh at it.