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Old 09-03-2012, 08:44 PM   #151
Jerichi
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I think I want x2/x3 to be the standard even if I prefer x1.5, but I think that standard in combination with a culture of energy conservation should fix some issues.

It's probably best to go with this for the time being, see how it goes and further edit as we see fit.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:51 AM   #152
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Yeah, I agree with 2/3 and energy penalties but please, no damage caps.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #153
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I have been following this discussion for some time, and I do agree with everything that has been said.

I prefer 2x/3x to 1.5x/3x. I can be coerced to go as low as 1.5x/2.5x if I need to.

I don't like a 2 HB damage cap, since it seems kind of silly if we aren't bumping up health. A 3x Ice Beam does nearly the same damage as a capped 3x Blizzard.

For the idea about "two movers and energy use" there needs to be some sense about this. If you use two Gusts every single turn, you are not going to tire out nearly as fast as if you used two Secret Powers or two Thunderbolts. I tend to ref Pokemon getting tired around half-health, with an increase in idle dodge rate for the opponent and visa-versa for the attacker.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:28 PM   #154
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I have been using 2x/3x and prefer that option over the 1.5x/3x. And now that I get back to reffing, I feel that is the least problematic option.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:14 PM   #155
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I like 2a and 4b and also kinda 5 but I know 2a isn't popular.

Can we make 2b the standard and make 2a an option?
I put my full support behind this plan.

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:55 PM   #156
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sad about the imminent 2/4x removal (lol), but yeah, out of those options 2/3 is the best, 1.5/2 sounds awful, same with 1.5/3

I don't support the force 1 mover, nor the damage cap though.

I like the idea of the testing of 2/4x with 6/9 for health/energy though.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:14 AM   #157
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Ok. Since this discussion, I have reffed and battled in 2/4, 2/3, 1.5/2 and probably something else. The latter is the best option imo.

I have come to agree with those that say that these changes are not the answer, though. Even in a singles match under 1.5/2, I can pull off a three-four round KO with little difficulty. The problem is that because we've not made attacks actually make sense (mostly), our old health system doesn't work. It's fine to have 4 HBs of health when Firewater refs Thunderbolt at 0.4, but when he's made to ref it at 0.65, it doesn't happen. Pokémon need more health.

I don't particularly think that the health/energy ratio needs changing. However, when you start multiplying 4/6, you get things like 6/9 and 8/12. I think we need to move away from calculating things in terms of Hyper Beams. Nowadays people are doing "three minors from 1/2 health" anyway. This is bad, and they should feel bad, but something along those lines might work.

4/6 translates as 60 minors of health and 90 minors of energy. Well, let's say that pokémon have 80 minors of health (this is both not that much of a jump and is easily divided by four) and 120 minors of energy. Again, easily divisible.

I mean, that's just idle musing. The crux is that we need to change the health and energy systems. 4 HB is not enough and I really struggle to see anyone adequately arguing against that.

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:16 AM   #158
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You, uh, do realise 80:120 and 4:6 are both the same ratio

>>

<<

But yeah I mentioned this in the thread about sigs.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:19 AM   #159
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*cough*

That's not what those numbers are, dear, they're Hyper Beams. But I changed it to avoid confusion.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:21 AM   #160
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Yes but it's still the exact same ratio. 60:90 = 2:3. 80:120 = 2:3. So what you're saying is that we jack up the health and energy but keep 'em in the same ratio. Frankly, unsure how I feel about that. I don't know if the current energy ratio is too high or too low.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:23 AM   #161
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Yes but it's still the exact same ratio. 60:90 = 2:3. 80:120 = 2:3. So what you're saying is that we jack up the health and energy but keep 'em in the same ratio. Frankly, unsure how I feel about that. I don't know if the current energy ratio is too high or too low.
Well I specifically state that I think the ratio is fine so.. yeah.

I mean the current situation is that pokémon are running out of energy much faster than they used to do. Well, good.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:26 AM   #162
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The thing really boils down to is that we as a league need to decide what kind of battles we want to have. Could be personal bias but I think a single matchup lasting 6 to 9 rounds is appropriate. Neutral matchups will obviously last longer. So we need to make tweaks that make this possible.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:27 AM   #163
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I would have no problem bumping from to a 80/120 system. I think this is something we need to do as well. I do this for FB, and the battles in my adventures as a whole are longer and more enjoyable. It allows for more strategy, etc.

I personally use a 1.5x/ 2.5x scale, with resistances adjusted accordingly.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:00 PM   #164
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60/90 is fine as is.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:05 PM   #165
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My preference would be 80/120 health and energy & 2/3 for super-effective damages.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:05 PM   #166
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I was considering bringing this up after we discussed it at the Britpack meetup. Nice job reading my mind, Kush!

I'd be in favour of 80/120. If you spend every round ordering, say, Thunderbolt and Secret Power, then the opponent's done in within four rounds. Obviously that doesn't always happen, but it does need addressing. Longer matchups are more fun.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:45 PM   #167
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You're wrong Kairne :p
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