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Old 08-15-2012, 08:29 AM   #1
Shuckle
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Movement Orders

There are two kinds of moves. One is a close-range move, the other is a long-range move. A third kind, involving moves like Rollout or Gyro Ball, will not be looked at here.

Now, the problem I'm having here is that close-range moves are actually two moves unless you are at close range. One is walking up to the opponent, the other is punching/hitting/thwacking them in some way. So if your opponent knocks you back with Psychuck or something, all you have to do to recover is order Scratch and the referee will ensure that your Pokemon will run right back up, use Scratch, and then another move in a blatant three-mover.

I'm not going to try to make anything change, but I'd like you vets and LO's to think about it a bit and tell me what you think.

Should close-range moves be reffed as "the Pokemon runs up to the opponent and attacks", or must they be within a certain range to work?

---Subset of the question: If I order two close-range moves and my opponent knocks me back with Psychuck, should my orders complete or does the order used on movement nullify the second order?
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:41 AM   #2
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A small amount of movement as part of an attack is fine and expected, but you're not crossing large arenas by ordering a melee move. See Kush's Gym Battle v Dave for repeated issues with this due to Kush's arse-backwards arena.

Crikey, I just posted in S&I. Doom.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:41 AM   #3
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Ordering melee attacks includes the movement. I don't understand your point about scratch to move back into range. If your opponent is far and you do scratch, yes you do go in and scratch. But this obviously takes some time/more energy than just a scratch. I don't understand what you mean by allowing a blatant three-mover. Scratch still takes up an attack. >_>

So my answer is going to be, ordering melee attacks includes the "getting there" part. In my mind, that is one of the few perks of melee combat. Since everyone just usually sits back and goes max blasty mode.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:43 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Lonely Cubone View Post
A small amount of movement as part of an attack is fine and expected, but you're not crossing large arenas by ordering a melee move. See Kush's Gym Battle v Dave for repeated issues with this due to Kush's arse-backwards arena.

Crikey, I just posted in S&I. Doom.
Yeah time is a factor as well. I remember in my match with Jeri, I threw a huge fit because Sciz reffed a Slowking walk from one end of the arena to the other to attack me. In one round. That should have realistically taken a long time but he reffed him with a magic hoverboard or some shit and he caught me (who was using Agility to get away) in the same round.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:44 AM   #5
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What you're talking about is 'extreme movement'.

Generally, no, running up to an opponent to use a physical attack is not considered a move. So, the orders "swoop down and use Steel Wing Pidgey" would be a single move, as would be "Use Double Edge in an arc to try and dodge some of their attack". You could feasibly extend this to "get up close for a point blank Flamethrower", for example. It's all about phrasing your orders correctly and not taking the piss. "Dodge his attack and us Double Edge" is really two moves, even if it might appear the same as the DE example above.

If you have to run 100 metres to use an attack, perhaps not. My gym arena stretches this to about its maximum. Running right the way across it for an attack is probably an extra move, so you have to order in such a way that you use your move doing an attack that will still work, such as Dig. Most refs are pretty lenient with distance.


It's similar to one of my favourite Ghost cheats. Really, specifically telling a Gengar to "switch to solid mode" is a move, in the same vein as "close your eyes". But if I were to order my ethereal Gengar to use Poison Jab, he would automatically switch to physical mode in order to use the attack. Does that mean my Poison Jab is two moves? Nope.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:45 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Lonely Cubone View Post
A small amount of movement as part of an attack is fine and expected, but you're not crossing large arenas by ordering a melee move. See Kush's Gym Battle v Dave for repeated issues with this due to Kush's arse-backwards arena.

Crikey, I just posted in S&I. Doom.
My general response to opinions like this has evolved in to "grow up" :p Though I did shrink it a bit after you pointed out you didn't like it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:55 AM   #7
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Wow. This invokes nostalgia from the time I claimed DC Earthquake was two moves because the move didn't contain "going over to the opponent" in itself.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:01 AM   #8
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Wow. This invokes nostalgia from the time I claimed DC Earthquake was two moves because the move didn't contain "going over to the opponent" in itself.
I'm not trying to make the ref do what I want and get me to win, silly 'Geet. I'm not even trying to change anything. I'm just bringing up a possible issue I thought of and wondered what everyone thought of it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:52 AM   #9
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Melee attacks are already a bit crap by comparison unless you have a huge size advantage, no need to go nerfing them more.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I'm not trying to make the ref do what I want and get me to win, silly 'Geet. I'm not even trying to change anything. I'm just bringing up a possible issue I thought of and wondered what everyone thought of it.
No, Shuckle, I was the referee.

Also, Cept's right, I've thought of bringing up how ridiculous physical attacks are compared to special(when was the last time you saw anyone using Barrier?)
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:30 AM   #11
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Well yes but any good ref is going to be giving more of a partial dodge chance to ranged moves than physical moves in a lot of cases.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Well yes but any good ref is going to be giving more of a partial dodge chance to ranged moves than physical moves in a lot of cases.
Well, yes, but partial dodges aren't always happening. In a lot of cases, you've got two 'mon concentrating on orders, and therefore not really thinking about dodging at all. Then you've got the fact that partial dodge chances are just that; chances. A roll of the dice. And a few other factors, depending on the situation.

>Not using Barrier

'Geet, you seem to be ignoring the fact that most physical attacks are melee-based, so people generally use them when at close-ish range (because ranged moves work better at range, oddly enough). Barrier will not work at close range, because you have no time and the Barrier will end up behind the opponent by the time it's actually used (if the user manages to get it off before being struck, which is going to be rare).

There are plenty of exceptions, but Light Screen is generally more useful simply because of the range involved, not how "good" or "bad" the moves they absorb are.
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