01-18-2012, 06:47 PM | #326 |
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Okay, now that both of you have finished, I feel that I can go ahead and go into details ...
After finishing the final episode of the first season of Kaiji, I once declared that Kaiji is the ultimate anti-gambling PSA. Now that you've finished Season 1 for yourselves, I think you can see why. Spoiler: show I had mentioned in an earlier post a central theme or message which runs through Kaiji, one which you can first probably start to notice around the time of the E-Card arc (if you're really observant) but one which should become pretty obvious by the time you complete the series. Spoiler: show
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01-18-2012, 08:38 PM | #327 |
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Have to agree with you there, on both things.
However, I do disagree with the overall message: "Rich people are cheaters" Yes, though as you said, the people who attempt and seek to "control society" are cheaters. But not all rich people get rich, nor keep their wealth by "cheating." |
01-18-2012, 10:20 PM | #329 |
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I completely agree, perhaps I should have been more clear.
The Kingpins, Shadow Leaders, Puppetmasters, etc, of the world who manipulate (generally politics) behind the scenes for their own profit and against the good of others, yes, they are cheats, lairs, and thieves. My intent in posting was to clarify a potential misinterpretation by other readers. My intent was to say being Rich does not make you a cheat, oppressor, or otherwise evil person. Even the big ones that lobby Governments do not necessarily have mal-intent. Rich people take advantage of situations, but not always take advantage of people. As for the other Shadow Rulers of the world. I put my stock in The Illuminati New World Order. Talon: *gasp!* I knew you were a Crazy Conspiracy Believer! This explains everything! Mew: Yeah so? :P As for what I think, I rarely have much to say on anime, I think of a lot of things while watching, but forget most of it by the time I get around to posting.. Mostly I think "What I would do" in the same situation. Spoiler: show Last edited by unownmew; 01-18-2012 at 10:24 PM. |
01-18-2012, 10:29 PM | #330 |
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What happened was, at the end of the original Episode 26 broadcast, in place of the usual Kaiji Proverbs segment (you'll see what I mean when you watch Season 2), the Kaiji Proverbs girl showed up along with Fukumoto-sensei and the director or producer of the anime and the three of them co-announced that the studio was "already working on" Season 2. We took this quite seriously at the time and anticipated a Fall 2008 release (as we were hearing the news in Spring 2008 ). We thought surely, Winter 2009 at the latest. Spring 2009 at the absolute latest! Two and a half years would pass before we finally got confirmation about the Spring 2011 anime. ^^; It was ... not a pleasant wait. I never gave up hope, but I admit, I had my doubts some days. Doppel had lost hope by the time word came. He was convinced that Madhouse, having fallen on hard times, had cancelled the project. You can imagine how happy he was to be wrong this once.
So ... just wanted to clarify, we knew a Season 2 was in the works. It's precisely because of that false promise (well, what turned into a false promise and then counter-turned back into a real promise) that we despaired from Spring '08 to Winter '11 when it came to Kaiji.
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01-18-2012, 11:36 PM | #331 |
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Two things, Talon.
While it's true Kaiji is sort of anti-gambling, what Kaiji does at the end of the show is completely different from the beginning. At first, he's just entrusting his money to luck, or other people, and gets burned relying on them like that for all the human nature/psychology arguments Fukumoto gives. By the end, Kaiji is taking calculated risks based mostly on his own cunning and evaluation of other people's behaviour. Fukumoto isn't saying don't gamble, he's saying that one should rely on one's own talents to ascended in the world. For Kaiji, if things were that simple, he could lead a normal life, but he has to get into strange circumstances before his true talents can be put to use. Those circumstances are mostly because of who he is. The themes in Kaiji are secondary to examining the psychological profile of the main character, which was the case in Akagi too. If the world is Social Darwinian, with the very rich individuals who have skill and power, with most individuals swimming through time without any ability to influence their world, Kaiji himself is treading water. He has the abilities to become like Hyoudou, but is held back by his own good nature. His abilities isolate him for everyone around him, keeping him in a tortuous limbo he presumably can never escape from. Hence the "Suffering Pariah" moniker. Secondly, it's not so much "you must cheat" as it is "do whatever you can to win". Usually that involves cheating, but not always. Kaiji didn't cheat in Gentei Janken, nor did he really do it in E-Card - he came up with a clever strategy to trick his opponent. Now, TBR, that's a different story. We all know how that ended!
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02-17-2012, 11:55 PM | #332 |
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Was curious to know what your guys' progress was on Season 2, if any.
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02-18-2012, 12:20 PM | #333 |
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Haven't started it yet. Saving it for the upcoming GARathon I plan to try when F/Z begins airing again. (It counts to me.)
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02-18-2012, 03:54 PM | #335 | |
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Quote:
Sorry to hear that you didn't like Season 2 as much as you did Season 1. While it's true that the Bog arc is rather long, it's also one of the more epic arcs in the franchise. Really ... Spoiler: show You're the first person I know though to have felt that Season 2 was as disappointing as you apparently did feel it to be. Hopefully Yuki won't be the same way. Then again, I got the mild impression that you were ever the bigger fan of Season 1, so I'm not holding my breath for her to write in with a rave review of S2 either now. ^^;
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02-18-2012, 05:07 PM | #336 |
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It's not so much I found it disappointing, more, I feel like I was totally sucked into Marathoning, expecting the end to come finally at the end of that episode, so I just kept watching episode after episode expecting the end in each one.
It was exceptionally exciting, but starting at ep 17 or so, I'd get worked up, then let down in the middle of the episode, and then promises of finale in the very next episode, only to circle back again the same way. I guess in a way it's really great at showing how Kaiji felt.. Just a little more, just a little more... |
05-21-2012, 02:58 PM | #337 |
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01-28-2013, 12:13 AM | #338 |
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There's a park near where I live that has a lot of hills, in fact it was originally a lot before it became a park. Rivers flow in various places so bridges were constructed over the hills.
Seeking a brainstorming session (historically I think well while walking; not so much lately), I decided for an evening stroll. Evening = 10:00 PM. One of the bridges has a stone ledge on its side instead of a guard-rail, about a foot wide. On the other side is a precipice (since it's a bridge), at its deepest about 1.5 stories. The incline increases as one goes toward the bridge's mid-point, then stabilizes. I'd say it's about 100 metres long. Not really thinking, I decided to walk on it with my normal walking pace right on the ledge. The result was a fair re-enactment of the first Human Derby gamble in Kaiji season 1. It wasn't nearly as well lit, and I had a lot more foot room (also no guys behind me) but it was pretty similar. Ho-ly f*sk, that was one of the scariest things I've ever done. Right up there with the train dodging and midnight countryside bike ride. It wasn't until I was already about 1/3 of the way in that I realized wind was blowing toward the adjacent canyon, meaning I had to lean right to avoid being blown off the ledge. It wasn't that strong wind, but at that height, with that pitfall, and that darkness, it was really scary, and I almost slowed my pace until I realized that slowing down un-balanced me. I noticed another bridge later in the route that had a ledge closer to the steel beam's width, with about two stories of height (but well lit). I wanted to try it out, but was afraid the cameras would catch me and I'd get fined or something. Long story short, way back when in 2007 some people were saying the Human Derby wasn't as scary as Fukumoto made it out to be. In my pansy imitation, it was downright terrifying. You'd have to be desperate to dare do something like this for money.
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01-29-2013, 10:11 AM | #339 |
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Yeah, a long time ago I related my own experience with even safer conditions than yours, and I was scared. Knowing that the beam was electrified would be even worse, because I have this phobia against electricity (I hate static electricity so much. I'm constantly slapping metal objects to de-electrify myself). I once got a static electricity shock so powerful that I fried my mouse and it didn't work right after that.
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08-05-2013, 02:15 PM | #340 |
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So, apparently CrunchyRoll acquired the streaming license rights for both the first and second seasons of Kaiji.
CrunchyRoll link here. The English license name for Season 1 is "Kaiji - Ultimate Survivor". The name for Season 2 is "Kaiji - Against All Rules". Never thought I'd see the day ... this is awesome. Maybe this means there's hope yet for Kaiji DVDs or Blu-Rays in North America! And maybe, just maybe, it means there's hope for a North American live-action adaptation of this series some day. Because Lord knows the American public would drink this up like honeyed water if only it were starring real live Americans instead of cartoon East Asians with 2D triangle noses. *sigh*
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08-08-2013, 09:13 AM | #341 |
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I always figured that the odds of Akagi being officially picked up and localized were close to zero, but Kaiji's chances considerably better. Still unlikely though. It's just too weird looking for the average person. Even amongst people who consider themselves hardcore anime fans, it's a hard sell and an obscure show. There aren't even any female characters, so that cuts out a big chunk of potential female fans. If someone wanted to pick it up, they probably would have done so by now.
Still, I'm happy about this news. The more people that get exposed to the wonders of Fukumoto, the better. Then Americans can start demanding a Legend of the Strongest Man Kurosawa anime, and Kickstart a million dollars to make it happen! And actually, Akagi could happen, but it would definitely need to follow a successful Kaiji. After all, Hikaru no Go was officially released in the West, so anime about nigh-incomprehensible Chinese table games are not out of the question. Akagi doesn't have the advantage of ahem, normal looking characters though ...
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08-09-2013, 01:29 AM | #342 |
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Now that I think about it, Akagi has ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING going against it for mainstream popularity in the West. I literally can not think of a single anime that would be a harder sell.
-It's about a confusing game that people barely know what the hell is, and they certainly don't know how to play it -"Ugly" artwork (no, don't you get it?! Fukumoto isn't bad at drawing, he's just trying to portray the ugliness of the world!) -Not a single female character for girls to relate to/guys to oggle. Girls would CERTAINLY NOT want to watch it to oggle any guys. Well, at least not before getting to know Akagi first, at which point, who could resist him? -No action scenes, except for Akagi kneeing a guy in the face, and using a revolver in a scene that is 10 times manlier than anything that ever happens in Dirty Harry or The Deer Hunter So, it's quite impressive that Akagi overcame all odds and built itself a decently sized cult fanbase in the West through sheer force of awesomeness.
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12-07-2013, 09:17 PM | #344 |
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I think the reason you mistook Kaiji for a comedy series going in was because, as you admit, you were most memorably exposed to it by Tumblr. So you must have seen tons upon tons of reaction gifs, image macros, and so on. For what it's worth, not a single one of us who watched Kaiji back when it aired mistook it for a comedy the way you did. Buuuuuut ... it also wasn't our first Fukumoto anime. We all watched Akagi per the initial suggestion of (iirc) Mcsweeney circa 2006 or very early 2007, and we discussed it and generally enjoyed it and even began playing mahjong because of it. So then imagine our delight when we found out that another of Fukumoto's works, this manga called "Kaiji", was going to be getting an adaptation that autumn. So yeah, we all went into it excited and totally knowing what we were in for: a compelling human drama from the Maestro.
Regarding the lack of memorable or "MUST BUY THE OST" music, there was one song in particular that for me was both of these things, and that was "Chorus". (Note to others: don't click if you're reading this post and haven't seen up through Episode 20.) I've never forgotten that song. In fact, while it's not "iPod music" per se, it's one of very few songs I actually do have on my iPod, there to listen to if ever the mood strikes. Even if time dims it, I don't know that I'll ever forget the memory of when this song played during the E-Card arc. Of course it played during the earlier arcs as well, but good fucking lord was it burned into my brain for all eternity as it played behind Kaiji's epic, epic speech to Tonegawa. This scene at the end of Episode 19, and then the scene I'm talking about in Episode 20 are scenes I'll always remember. Finally, regarding the pacing ... you have a very, very different experience from the rest of us. Mcsweeney, Doppel, bbb, and I all out of necessity, and Yuki by my begging, all watched Kaiji at a rate of only one episode a week. I can't say whether watching it slower than you did would have made it better or worse for you. All I can say is that none of us present here share your exact experience as none of us watched it for the first time as quickly as you did. Anyway, speaking for myself and my own impressions of Kaiji, I feel like it's paced just fine -- very, very few of the episodes feel like padding to me -- but I can understand where you might be coming from if you're speaking from a corner of your heart which says "I want to know NOW! " to every cliffhanger nearly every episode leaves you with. For us, we had one cliffhanger a week. For you, you just bam-bam-bam-bam went through twenty-five cliffhangers in a matter of days. Anyway, glad you liked it. Almost everyone who's watched it has. Glad you were able to see past Fukumoto's distinctive
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12-07-2013, 09:47 PM | #345 | |||
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Quote:
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12-08-2013, 09:16 PM | #346 |
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There's large holes in this thread's discussion, I think we must have done a lot of it in the bbb suggestion box thread. Damn shame. This is exactly why Talon's movement to have discussions in their respective threads whenever possible is a good idea.
On mistaking Kaiji for a comedy: I originally downloaded Akagi as a joke, because the art style looked hilariously bad and The Triad kept making fun of it on their webpage. The fact that it was about mahjong was even funnier (boy, they'll make an anime out of anything, won't they?). In a shocking turn of events I was totally gripped by it from episode 1, was especially blown away by episode 4, and it would go on to become one of my favourite shows ever. (similar story with Masturbation Master Kurosawa. Damn, sometimes you can really find a gem in the least expected places) My single favourite scene from Kaiji has to be the roasting kneeling. Spoiler: show Best song from the soundtrack? This one
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12-08-2013, 09:31 PM | #347 |
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I got to second BPK on Tony River. That was quite the powerful plot-line by Fukumoto.
... I wasn't a big fan of Akagi up until the Urabe, Washizu matches, because I couldn't get over the cheating aspect in all the matches up through there. Akagi himself is a different person as a kid yes, but the fact that everyone had to use cheating that was described as basically being supernatural killed a lot of my early enthusiasm. It's why Gambler Legend Tetsuya struck me a comedy rather than urban legend made gritty anime, because the scenes were so ridiculously over the top they came across as cheesy. Stuff like, "Imma beat you" and "oh yeah? deal" "lol chiihou" "naw dawg, I got tenhou, all green double yakuman" "baka na!!!". But that Urabe match was the real deal. And Washizu, while it dragged on toward the end, was amazing just because Washizu himself was a much more complex villain than any of Akagi's other foes. Akagi also tops in as the one series I've rewatched the most. I think I've seen it like 17 times and one time I just listened to the audio of the whole series while I was studying in my room.
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12-08-2013, 09:42 PM | #348 |
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Everything that happens before the Washizu arc is awesome and I can't even choose a favourite. The Washizu arc is my least favourite, but its pacing problems are overrated by many (there's only one TRULY bad episode.) It also contains one of the best scenes in the whole show ... you all know which one I'm talking about lol. There's some really crazy shit that happens in the manga as well, too bad they couldn't get it in because it didn't exist yet.
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12-08-2013, 09:49 PM | #349 |
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I would gladly accept, even as an OAV, a five to seven-episode production by MadHouse covering whatever happened between the de facto end of the Akagi anime and the "LOL, HERE'S THE SPOILER ENDING" actual ending of the Akagi anime. Even if they've spoiled the outcome, it would still be incredible to see how it all plays out. 'Cause you know that Fukumoto is the master. That if what we already saw was great, the best was perhaps still to come.
But yeah, the scene you're alluding to, Mcsweeney, is the #1 most memorable Akagi scene for me by far. Such an incredible moment, for a number of reasons.
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07-06-2018, 06:28 AM | #350 |
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Raws of the first episode of Tonegawa are out. Decided to check it out, and ...
Spoiler: show I would say to go in blind and watch the first episode (raw or subbed, whichever, whenever) without reading my post. I don't want to take away from you any of the magic the episode has to offer. Only after you see the episode for yourself, go ahead and read my post. But for those who are really looking for a preview before they sink time into watching the episode, well, the above is provided to give you one viewer's first impressions.
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