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Old 02-02-2011, 07:45 AM   #26
Mercutio
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Good. Perhaps have toxic be weaker than normal poison for the first round of damage? Where is it we can check things like how much damage Poison does?
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:56 AM   #27
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Just for the usual sake of nitpicking let's also remove the bit about Pikachu's tail, given that Pokemon Adventures doesn't count as evidence.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:07 PM   #28
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I forsee all gym matches going like this;

Challenger: "Ice beam x2!"
Lonely Cubone: "Bide!"

Elsie wins!
I'm okay with this.

I'm not sure if it's just my reffings, but Toxic is perfectly fine if you plan it out. Say most 1 on 1 matchups last abotu eight rounds? If Toxic was used on Round One, I would ref it doing just under 1 HB of damage over that period. Bear in mind things like Shadow's badge doing boosted damage against a toxiced Pokemon, and you have a usable move in neutral matchups where typespam is out of the question.

The real thing that nerfs Toxic in my view is how refs allow being poisoned to make Facade a ludicrouslyly powerful Kill Move.

Having read back a bit, Jeri would want it to KO in 12 rounds? Seems a bit much to me: Toxic is one move, which uses fairly low energy in the scheme of things. Importantly, You can use other moves whilst its ongoing. Over time, it adds up to some fairly heavy damage, but it shouldn't be KOing alone in the time of a normal battle imho.

Last edited by Lonely Cubone; 02-02-2011 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:17 PM   #29
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>Having read back a bit, Jeri would want it to KO in 12 rounds? Seems a bit much to me: Toxic is one move, which uses fairly low energy in the scheme of things. Importantly, You can use other moves whilst its ongoing. Over time, it adds up to some fairly heavy damage, but it shouldn't be KOing alone in the time of a normal battle imho.

I want it to KO in 12 rounds if it were used as the only move in the whole match. That will probably never happen. With the average 1 vs. 1 lasting 8-10 rounds, Toxic scaled this way would guarantee about 8 rounds on average, putting more pressure on the foe than it does currently, when it's going to KO alone in like, 14 rounds, making it so that it barely contributes to the battle.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:55 PM   #30
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Double post for a tweak.

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Toxic (PO) -- Using significant energy, the user injects a toxin into the victim in the most appropriate method fashionable. Pokemon with large fangs (Golbat) will bite the opponent while other Pokemon will simply spew the poison from their mouths. The referee should use common sense and the aforementioned examples in determining how Toxic is used, as well as the effect it would have on the opponent, if any. For the first round (the round it is used), the poison soaks into the bloodstream, dealing no damage. The next round, the toxin deals roughly the same damage as regular poison, but as the rounds pass, the damage increases each round, capping at half a Hyper Beam worth of damage after about eight rounds. Damage may also be modified by the amount of toxin soaked in/injected and the size of the victim.
This is assuming that poison deals about... say, light-mild damage every round, so roughly doubling will put it at half a Hyper Beam in 3 rounds... which is a little too high. So let's start it at light and make it go up a click every time (out of my 15 point system).
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:51 AM   #31
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EDIT: Kush in misreading somethnig important shocker. Looks good Jeri.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:44 PM   #32
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Ok so that's sorted out. Now for one that is super complex and awful and that I have no drafted revision for.

Substitute.

It sucks. I, and many others, have said this. You pretty much give up half your energy and a quarter of your health for little real return and there's only one situation in which it will be usable (which, with rewrites, will be significantly less common).

The one way I've seen it dealt with in the few other ASB's I've lurked in is that a percentage of health can be given to the Sub so you can have massive Subs or tiny subs to absorb all types of attacks. However, I'm not quite sure if that's a good idea or not and if it will be broken. Anyone have bright ideas for a remedy?
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:54 PM   #33
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We could tone down that extra energy use that's stacked on top of the energy and health put into the clone to something more reasonable.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:09 PM   #34
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Suggestion: The pokémon loses 25% of their health and uses a good amount of energy (say, equal to Thunderbolt) to make it happen. The Substitute acts as if it were the real pokémon in terms of energy and does not break through energy usage. It can't be put statused in anyway (user still can).

I think that makes Substitute good but bot broken. As long as you make sure to clarify all the "User does this while pokémon is attacking" stuff as in the existing version I don't see it as a problem. No-one is gonna use Substitute more than once because of the 25% loss in health and the sub will still break after taking a yper Beam of damage.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:18 PM   #35
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Oh God.

Please can we change Agility to the normal type? Newbies are thinking it uses Psychic energy >.<
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:21 PM   #36
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I would be inclined to suggest allowing a variable amount of health to be put in (much like varying the strength of HB, so like allowing a quick, moderate and full substitute), with the corresponding amount of energy placed into it as well (so 1.5x the energy put in). Plus tone down the energy needed to create it. Plus clarify the effects of mental and physical status effects on it.

Substitute (NO) -- The user creates a copy of itself, which takes the place of the user. This body double will suffer the brunt of any attacks an opponent makes until it falls apart, since Substitute also allows the user to mentally implant a misperception in all opponents that the Substitute is the actual pokémon it was built by. The opposing trainer cannot successfully order their pokémon to hit the “real’ pokémon because their pokémon has a mental block against realising that Substitute has been used. While the user of Substitute is not immune to harm, affected pokémon can only harm the user by sheer accident, since they cannot deliberately aim at it. However, nonintelligent sources of damage, such as arena damage and effects that cover the entire arena (no normal attack covers the whole arena) will hit both the user and the Substitute at full damage if the user and Sub are in the affected area. The substitute performs all of the attacks as a normal Pokemon would. The user will move around to avoid all attacks, not needing to be ordered seperately. However, when the substitute is ordered to attack, the user must fully concentrate on the transfer of orders. If the user is asleep, the Substitute will also be asleep, thanks to that same mind link. A full substitute will have a quarter of the users total health and energy transferred to it, but the amount of health transferred can run the full gamut from barely any to around a hyper beams worth, with the same portion of total energy also being transferred. The substitute will dissipate if it loses all its heath or energy. To create this takes not only the health and energy which goes into the substitute, but significant amount of energy in order to fashion the body double.

Italics are my edits. Add in clarification about status effects and whatnot as I don't know exactly what you want there. Keeping the amount of energy and health transferred proportional stops people making subs with loads of energy and no health to explode or last resort or whatever.
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Last edited by Concept; 02-05-2011 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:39 PM   #37
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Oh God.

Please can we change Agility to the normal type? Newbies are thinking it uses Psychic energy >.<
Consider this an emergency rewrite.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:43 PM   #38
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Mozz is a trickster, and I fell for the trap.
Duly noted.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:05 PM   #39
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Explicit clarification of which water moves (if any) should be considered special and which are physical would be much appreciated.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:21 PM   #40
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It's basically every move except Water Pulse.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:24 PM   #41
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Water Pulse turns solid upon contact, though, iirc.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:25 PM   #42
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Yeah, but it's delivered in energy-form, so it's absorbed by Light Screen, etc.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:26 PM   #43
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I greatly dislike the argument that Water Pulse spontaneously changes from energy into matter.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:34 PM   #44
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And you like the argument that Chimchar can somehow breathe fire in the shape of a giant star?
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:37 PM   #45
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Yes :p

Unless you're referring to the shape part. That's creative license :p
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:58 PM   #46
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OK so I'm finally getting to this. So. Sub.

Quote:
Substitute (NO) -- The user creates a copy of itself, which takes the place of the user. This body double will suffer the brunt of any attacks an opponent makes until it falls apart, since Substitute also allows the user to mentally implant a misperception in all opponents that the Substitute is the actual pokémon it was built by. The opposing trainer cannot successfully order their pokémon to hit the “real" pokémon because their pokémon has a mental block against realising that Substitute has been used. While the user of Substitute is not immune to harm, affected pokémon can only harm the user by sheer accident, since they cannot deliberately aim at it. However, nonintelligent sources of damage, such as arena damage and effects that cover the entire arena (no normal attack covers the whole arena) will hit both the user and the Substitute at full damage if the user and Sub are in the affected area. The substitute performs all of the attacks as a normal Pokemon would. The user will move around to avoid all attacks, not needing to be ordered separately. However, when the substitute is ordered to attack, the user must fully concentrate on the transfer of orders. If the user is asleep, the Substitute will also be asleep, thanks to that same mind link.
When Substitute is ordered, an amount of health between an FC and QC Hyper Beam, is specified (if none is specified, the equivalent of an MC Hyper Beam is the standard). The user will then sacrifice that amount of health to create the Substitute along with x1.5 the energy of the amount of health sacrificed. This Substitute will have the amount of health sacrificed to create it, but will take energy directly from the user. Though the Sub will not reflect the energy exhaustion that a normal pokémon would, it will cause the user to become increasingly exhausted. Once the Substitute runs out of health or the user becomes too tired to maintain the mental link (extreme moves or multiple, high energy moves without rest will often cause this), the Substitute will fade.
Basically, combines the best of both worlds. Since it's energy inefficient to use it, it's not broken but much more useful than the previous incarnation since you don't lose half your energy to pull it off.

Also the Sub having its own energy seemed kinda silly but I think my idea preserves the reason for having it without needing to give it its own pool.

Oh, and Amnesia - raising SpDef y/n? It hasn't really been seen in the anime so we have some creative license on it.

And also, Hidden Power - NO or primary type?

Last edited by Jerichi; 02-12-2011 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:52 PM   #47
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Hidden power for primary type, some pokemon really need a better range attack. (I'm looking at you Trapinch)
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:22 PM   #48
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Hidden Power for primary type- we already have Secret Power.

@Milo: Earth Power says hi.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:23 PM   #49
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Earthpower doesn't work at flying foes, which I meant with ranged.
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Shouldn’t the Hoff be doing something if he’s still around? I have strict rules about leaving the pool, and I’m sure vanishing the pool out of existence breaks those rules in some way :P
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:27 PM   #50
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>Hidden Power for primary type- we already have Secret Power.

Well, I was thinking of making Secret Power more like the Anime version, so.
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