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Old 08-17-2019, 01:23 AM   #7837
Doppleganger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post
I think you're misunderstanding my stance on Zelink, or at any rate we don't see eye to eye on the subject. The idea of anyone "winning" or being "deserving" of someone's agreement to marry them already makes me uncomfortable, so let's just leave that alone. I don't wish to get too deep into philosophical debate, but my reason for bringing it up in relation is bc by emphasizing Akari's and Tohno's relationship as "special", you seemed to suggest they were some kind of star-crossed "soulmates" (a concept I don't subscribe to either). I personally don't believe anyone should be "beholden" to another; only that there are those who are objectively more compatible together (at any certain point in time).
Whether or not you believe in the concept shouldn't have any bearing on a movie. Japan has a traditional belief that memories reside in the soul - which is problematic if you know memories are stored in the brain and don't believe a soul exists. Fate/stay night and the Nasuverse operate on this dynamic which is completely removed from reality. But since that's the logic of that universe and it's consistent within itself, you have to roll with it.

I do think that Tohno-Akari were established as soulmates, but rather than work with destiny, destiny conspired to push them apart by shoving obstacles in the way of their romance.

Destiny ultimately succeeded. OK, that's fine. But the narrative presentation of this is just poor. I already went in to why the film fails - three loosely connected acts with an unclear message that doesn't recruit the visuals to aid the narrative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post

Nor do I think "realism" should be withheld from fiction; part of what I like about animé is that it covers such a wide variety of topics - from the magical to the mundane (ex: "slice of life" stories). If one is simply searching for fantasy escapism, then yeah 5Cm definitely isn't suited to fill that brand. Tbf I don't think it's particularly good at "storytelling" either, in that it strives so hard for the "realistic" factor to the point of making the characters and dialogue supremely dull and tedious to sit through. (That was something Kimi no Na Wa did fix by introducing the first act as lighthearted and humorous to at least make the main protagonists more likeable.) But it is a very believable situation IMO.
I no longer think fiction should beholden to reality. I once did, but I forget where (maybe a few years ago) I heard a modern artist talking about the history of modern art and why it became so bizarre and abstract.

The bottom line was that modern photography was the end of realistic art, because no artist could reproduce reality better than a camera. So modern art started to explore things that weren't based on reality.

Reality became the basis for a romantic interpretation of what reality is.

I feel like this applies to fiction now as well. Writing has taken on the duty of presenting reality with a touch of magic. It's why disgusting films like the live-action The Lion King could do so well, and why reality television - real footage spliced together to form a narrative - is so omnipresent on television now.

When I was talking about the visuals earlier, I made sure to note they were romantic and not realistic. It's gorgeous and inviting, but it doesn't look like the real world at all. And if you step back and think about it, what is actually being romanticized - human infrastructure - is an ugly thing.

Do I think fiction should strive to be as realistic as possible again? In 2015, I thought The Martian was the best film I'd ever seen, creating a near-future based on real physics. But I read critics like the Red Letter Media guys calling it a bad movie, because it has a poor narrative and weak structure.

To me, that was like saying "reality has a poor narrative and weak structure" and I realized that what drew me to that movie was the touch of magic. I didn't watch that film because it was realistic, I watched it because I wanted it to be real.

And that revelation made me realize why I'm starved for good fiction/anime these days, and found some solace in Pokemon - too much of it is wish fulfillment, but if it's not my taste in wishes, it's obnoxious and I want to tune it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post

I just find it rather surprising/disappointing that you would consider Akari's apparent lack of "devotion" - going so far as to call it a "callous betrayal" - to a boy she knew at 13 years old the "grossest" element (instead of say, Tohno's own ruinous behavior as a result of relying on those tenuous past memories to self-medicate/run from current responsibility), and sincerely hope that kind of thinking doesn't extend to "real life", as it were.
To put into perspective why I found that scene offensive, consider the movie Bamboozled! by Spike Lee, which featured blackface characters trying to parody extreme racism.

The use of blackface was so overpowering nobody could take the parody seriously, so the movie came across as blatantly racist. Because Shinkai used stereotypical NTR tropes, I cannot see past its inclusion as anything more than cheap emotional manipulation. Especially with how common and popular NTR is at frustrating people in the amateur light novel/manga scene today.

One of the other tropes about NTR is that it's portrayed as a "twist". You have a routine love story them BAM! it ends in NTR.

That last one makes me cynical about the movie as a whole. Was the story intentionally loose to set up for an NTR end?
Did Shinkai just blow it and unintentionally wrote an NTR ending?
Did he include the NTR end knowing general audiences would eat it up?

I'm sure there could have been a way to portray the 'tragedy' in a different way from NTR, so Shinkai checking off the tropes just leave a bad taste and ruins any appreciation of the movie.

Some trivia from Google suggests that, no, this wasn't unintentional. Shinkai is apparently big into NTR.

Which is just utterly irritating, even if I don't even remember who those two characters are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post

sincerely hope that kind of thinking doesn't extend to "real life", as it were.
To me, you shouldn't have to speculate on this, because I know NTR's origins are as an emasculation fetish and not from reality. It has as much real-world application as wondering if mermaids should be classified as people or animals.

Yes, a real-life NTR situation is possible. But the reason it's so common in fiction because it's probably the most degrading way to end a romance. The intent of use isn't because it's realistic. It's because it will trigger people more violently than an earthquake.
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