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Old 05-23-2018, 04:02 PM   #4728
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Goalposts! I gave you Ash-Greninja to prove my point! You didn't say "Gyarados is only as good as Ash-Greninja": you said he's only as good as G-R-E-N-I-N-J-A! If you're going to cheat and automatically launch yourself into Ash-Greninja, then why don't I go ahead and also cheat by exactly one turn and give myself a free DD?
That wasn't goalposts, that was me treating an orange like a tangerine and creating miscommunication. I only run Ash-Greninja because, in the rain, I can make it work; Protean cannot be used in Ubers at all aside from a subpar suicide lead. When I did the calculation I was looking at Ash-Greninja stats.

I apologize, but I was always talking about Ash-Greninja, you can see from the replays I posted that's what I've been running and thinking about.

Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
Just because there shouldn't be a problem doesn't mean there isn't a problem. There's quite clearly a problem. And I think a chunk of it stems back to the unavoidable truth of 'Monowater rain teams in Ubers aren't common for a reason'.
We don't know if there's a problem yet because I'm not skilled enough to tell. First, you need a good team and then you need to know how to use it. Only then can you really conclude "this team is totally unviable" or "this team has a niche". A bad player with a good team can still sack wins and a good player can't win with a bad one. Pokemon is a numbers came so there are times where mathematically, it's impossible no matter how skilled you are.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like a whiny brat here; I'm in Ubers because it's fun and I want to use Kyogre. I'm still stubborn when it comes to team building so maybe the addition of something like Toxapex would help out immensely.

Monowater might not be the problem so much as rain. It also lead me to realize a very sad thing just now:

252+ SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y in Rain: 286-337 (80.5 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (286, 289, 292, 297, 300, 303, 306, 310, 313, 316, 319, 324, 327, 330, 333, 337)

This is with Choice Scarf, which is necessary to outspeed Mewtwo-Y. I fall just short of the KO either way. Incidentally, Hydro Pump here does more damage than Dark Pulse, so the only reason to use it would be for the flinch chance.
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