View Single Post
Old 01-01-2016, 11:01 PM   #21
A New and Original Person
Stealthy's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Originally Posted by Snorby View Post
The issue is mainly that Monferno and Infernape aren't different enough to justify Monferno being TL2 and Infernape being TL5. Infernape at this juncture is only very marginally better.
First, size boost is totally helpful for a physical 'mon like a fighting type. Granted, Infernape's mainly a boost in limb length but still useful.

Second, that TL argument is never convincing for a lot of reasons. A lot of pokemon evolutions are "slightly bigger with four new moves, two of which are Giga Impact and Hyper Beam". Doesn't mean they should all be just 1 TL down from their fully evolved counterparts. We don't approach NFEs the same way we do fully evolved pokemon. It's why TL1 and 2 and even kinda 3 have such a spread in how good the pokemon are, and they always will. Because that's how the acquisition system is designed. Generally don't use this argument, because it doesn't gel with how our progression-based system works.

Third, Infernape is justified at TL5 because it's really fucking good. Monferno is justified at TL2 because while it can trade fine at TL3, it's a starter and keeping second stage starters at TL2 isn't likely to change anytime soon, and not just because internal consistency (which, as a concept, is fairly dead).

Fourth, you want a good argument here for differentiating the two? It's that we should generally try to avoid pokemon having the same SC as their prevo if we can manage it.

Originally Posted by TheKnightsFury View Post
Even if you don't give the boost to monferno and give internape a 1.1 boost. It shares the same tl as blaziken and needs something to set it apart.
Infernape isn't outclassed, it's more underused. There's a difference, and the second doesn't really call for a buff. Especially not a really good one like Iron Fist.

You want to add to Infernape's SC? Looking to the ability is like the last resort. And in this case, "giving up on adding to the SC" comes first. First go to thematic. What actually fits the pokemon? Then go to playstyle. What about this pokemon enhances/can enhance the way it plays? Then, if you really need to add something, check the movepool to see if there's any gold. And I mean real gold. I suppose somewhere along the line "things from the anime that aren't dumb" fits in. But that's the checklist. And along the way, really should be questioning the worth of actually adding this in, if it's balanced, and considering how hard you're shoehorning things.

So for a fist boost to Infernape.

Does it fit thematically? Not really.

Does it enhance the playstyle of Infernape? Technically, because it's a buff, but it doesn't do anything special for Infernape that it wouldn't do for an assload of other bipeds.

Does it draw sensibly from the movepool? Not really. Infernape has a good amount of moves that would benefit from this buff, but not so many that its access to fist moves is distinctive.

Is there anime basis for this? Not that I know of.

Is this really necessary? Ehhhhhhhhhhh

Is it balanced? It's a pretty good buff on a really good pokemon.

How hard are we shoehorning this in? Yes.

Are we okay if we don't do this? Yeah. Would be nice to have something but it's okay if we don't use this.

Is this buff supported by the pokemon's in game ability? Yes!
Stealthy is offline