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Old 09-16-2015, 09:46 PM   #154
Snorby
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@Stealthy

You're absolutely right in that Chesnaught and Conkeldurr are even more deserving of TL3 than Scrafty. I was hesitant to nominate Chesnaught because I was certain that it would be shot down because Breloom is TL3, while Conkeldurr I... honestly had mostly forgotten about. I would be more okay with Scrafty staying TL4 if one/both of those went down a peg. (Relatedly: Breloom. Say we move Chesnaught to TL3. Could it realistically be a TL2, or is it too strong for that? Would Breloom be a realistic fit for a TL that contains the likes of Mega-Heracross in terms of Fighting-types? I haven't used either so I have no idea on this)

So yeah, While I do think its comparable to some of the better TL3 mon, my point that it's probably about equal with the likes of Machoke has yet to be refuted, and I could give you another example or two of a comparable mon in TL3, I don't want to belabor the point further than we need to. I'll concede Scrafty if we take a hard look at Ches/Loom and Conk. Although I do think it's silly to try and shut down my argument by saying that Seismitoad would be outclassed in TL4, when it very clearly would have a niche (Quaggy isn't seeing Poison familiar or boosted Earthquake any time soon), but I digress.

Back on topic, I stand by that Hawlucha really ought to be TL3. As I said before, It got like 4 notable moves from tutors. Only one of which (Iron Head) hits one of its weaknesses (that it couldn't already hit) for SE damage. If it's a TL3 without tutors it's a TL3 with tutors, albeit a higher end one. In fact, let's go through the tutor moves:

Spoiler: show
Bounce- Already had it.
Drain Punch- Nice, but Hawlucha already had Roost for Health Recovery.
Dual Chop- Um, it hits Dragons SE I guess?
Endeavor- Already had it.
Fire Punch- Hawlucha's STABs hit everything this hits. I guess it hits bug/steels?
Focus Punch- An alright attack, but Hawlucha really has better options imo.
Helping Hand- pfffffft
Iron Head- Probably the best thing Hawlucha got, but even this I don't think justifies pushing it up to play with the big boys like Emboar and Swampert.
Last Resort- heh
Low Kick- Super duper niche
Sky Attack- Already had it.
Snore- lool
Superpower- Why are you not using HJK? You should be using HJK.
Tailwind- Pretty nifty, but not really worth bumping it for.
Thunder Punch- Hits Flyings! Yaaaaaay! I mean, Rock offtype did that already, but it's still nice I guess.
Zen Headbutt- Um, it hits Poisons? Fightings are already hit by STAB, sooo...


So let me get this straight: You're telling me that Hawlucha was made good enough by what basically amounts to Iron Head, Tailwind, ThunderPunch, and Drain Punch, and some extra fluff that it needs to go from TL3 to TL4? I find that ridiculous. Hawlucha is definitely more on par with the likes of Gourgeist than the likes of Druddigon.
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