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Old 09-02-2015, 02:08 PM   #2043
Jerichi
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
No it really is not okay. Dodge and strike moves are used in offensive playstyles as risk-free, super efficient (they are almost always more efficient than Agility in the same context), momentum swinging moves. These moves are not as useful in a defensive playstyle because the extra damage is not needed and they cost more energy. I don't feel this is okay. I really think that dodge and strike moves shouldn't often result in perfect dodges. Most of the time, it should be partial dodges. I know Connor and Charm don't agree with me on this, but none of the dodge and strike moves should be better than Agility on the dodging front.
Okay so we're definitely talking past each other here.

I pretty much agree that when you use a move to go out of your way to dodge and then come back to strike, they really should use more energy. And in most cases, you should only dodge partially, or at least you should go out of your way for a full dodge. But when it comes down to it, we also have to respect the fact that moves like Quick Attack and Aqua Jet have been used in the anime countless times as dodge-and-strike. Because of that, I don't want to strip these moves of their dodging abilities. If you just Quick Attack out of the way, it should work bar extenuating circumstances. But, on the other hand, if you're trying to do both, you'll not get either too well and should spend more energy to get that additional damage.

I also don't really understand where you're going with Agility at all. Agility is a universal stand-in move for all Pokémon to get reliable dodges - arguing that we're devaluing Agility because there are other better moves is the same as arguing that we're devaluing Pound because we buff Mega Punch in my mind.

My concern with dodge-and-strike is less the lightish damage done by the actual attack but the potential for it to combo. For that reason (and others) I think Kush's proposal of making them universally inefficient should be the direction we take them in; if you want a fast move that will guarantee a dodge or a hit, you should spend more energy to do that, and if you want to have your cake and eat it too, you should have to spend even more energy.

>Also the relevant type should have the ability to perform a STAB version if desired but others should get only Normal.

You mean like Dig and Fly and stuff, right? Because you didn't make that clear at all xd Otherwise we're just stripping Aqua Jetters of Aqua Jet.
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