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-   -   The Boutique (http://forums.upnetwork.net/showthread.php?t=8028)

OkikuMew 04-25-2017 02:16 PM

The Boutique
Ahoy! About time I make the thread for this ^^;

Sooooo this has been brought up in the original Changes thread and on Skype. As many agree, The Boutique as the way it is now needs to change quite a bit of rules, as it caused controversy in the past. Here's what I listed out of what we should talk about. ...I'll shamelessly copy/pastes my original post, but since I'll be adding a few things, those added things will be colored for your convenience.

- Relaxing the "shiny recolor" rule: That's one of the big things here. Yes, the rule is there for a good reason: getting a shiny Pokémon against odd chances is an awesome thing, and "making" a shiny by recoloring just removes the whole point of shinies. However, in the past, there has been some controversies about what is considered as "too close to a shiny" or not. Although I would like it in the end to make that rule more lax than before, I would also like to discuss and debate in full of what would be considered, in more precise detail, what would be considered as a "too close for shiny" or not.

- Inclusion of "Shiny Spray" as purchasable item: All that said from the point above, everyone loves to have a shiny, and some people has a hard time to get one. We have the Shiny Spray, but it has become a rare item that not only was (is?) exclusive to updaters, but is ridiculously expensive. Why not making an item that is accessible to everyone? However, being what it is, it should be something that is still restrictive in some way. Therefore, I suggest that it is still an expensive item (just that it can be bought by anyone who got the Pokédollars, or perhaps coins being a luxury item), can be only buy 1 per year, and can't be traded. Obviously those rules can be changed, but I'm just throwing it out there as example.
- Devolution Spray: There's also been talk of adding the Devolution Spray along with the Shiny one. I dunno if that particular item has its place in the Boutique (perhaps in another store instead), but I think it's close enough to talk about it here. It'll say it should have the same treatment as the Shiny Spray, being a rare/luxury item by making it expensive and perhaps allowed to buy only once a year.
- Add flexibility to Special Characteristics: That's a doozy one, as there's a looooooot of cleaning up to do. Here's a rundown:
- Birthmarks: I find the rules as they are are too restrictive. I dunno about you guys, but I don't get how a Pichu with a stripe(s) as a birthmark suddenly turns into an Elekid. Plus, giving only a month after capture/hatch seems a bit short. So I would say off with the "looks too much like another Pokémon" rule, and add a few months to the time limit. Perhaps even we could get rid of the time limit completely, but that's for you guys to judge.
- Tints: That's something I never saw anyone used, so that rule is a little confusing. Should we just simply remove it? Perhaps make it more precise?
- Scars: I do not get the fact that you can have it only if it's out of a campaign. Because seriously, you can get a scar easily, whenever as soon as you're born (ex.: accident) or from something utterly stupid and not badass like a campaign (ex.: personally, I still got a scar on my hand from accidentally snapping/closing a USB key's cap on my skin. And that happened 12 years ago.) Also, yes I would like to know the reason for getting that scar, but I don't care having it linked to a zone or whatever. Just give me a TL;DR story of it and I'll be happy :P (I'm not saying you guys should not link to the actual story though! Don't keep me completely away from your writing endeavors :3)
- "Monster" Pokémon: How ironic for Pocket Monsters! Joke aside, although crazy, horrifically mutated Pokémon will still not be allowed, but I think banning absolutely anything "mutated" is going a little bit too far. In everyday life, there's people and animals that lives with a disease/mutation without looking horrible or out of place. If a human can naturally have extra toes, why would a Paras could not have an extra mushroom on its back? What about elephantiasis (that enlarges certain body parts), since we already accepted size changes? And animals that has a numb as a tail, why not Pokémon? All and all, I think we should be able to choose a bit more whatever we want our Pokémon to be that is within both the realm of real life "oddities", logic and the game.
- Auras: That's something that made way through PMs, but didn't have time to be applied before this whole shabang happened :P In short, auras (as in a glow around the Pokémon's body) would've been a new kind of special characteristic that had certain rules, including justification (similar to scars), color (one only, no gradients or change of color), permanency (intensity can be changed whenever, but cannot be turned off), and no shadow Pokémon imitation (can have a dark aura like a shadow Pokémon, but can't have a recolor like one along with it). I think this is fine, although the colors and permanency can be changed. Speaking of which...
- Permanency: That's been annoying me for a little while. In all those rules, whenever it is a recolor or special characteristic, if you do it, you're stuck with it. Sure, most people goes on with it and doesn't mind that it's permanent because they don't want to change it anyways, but I can see how it can be a little annoying. Like you want to change a Pokémon's backstory but now the recolors and characteristics doesn't fit with it. In a similar vein, you want to trade to get an individual Pokémon, but the physical modifications made by his current owner are not to your tastes. So I thought it would be a good idea to get rid of the permanency... but by still "restrict" it in some realistic way. My solution: Make the first recolor/special characteristic free as usual, but if you want to change/remove it, you pay a certain amount. Think of it as the first time being just a registration thing, while all the subsequent times being surgery. What do you guys think?

- Furfrou Trims: I understand that the whole idea of trying to make the trim not last long like in the games, but tracking that down is ridiculous. Can we just make it a paid service to trim and makes it a permanent thing? So much less trouble for both me and the trainer that way ^^;

- RPing in the shop: That's something that has been teasing my brain for a LOOOOOOOOONG time, back when it was supposed to be Lilblue and I co-owning the shop. We wanted to name of the thread sound more like an actual name of a shop (It was something like "Little Bleu Mew Boutique"), and that the first post has the whole explanation and rules told through RP (although not too much; so the basic rules are still easily found... I tried to find a sample of what we wrote, but I can't find it ;-; It probably got lost in my now dead laptop. But basically, there was an RP'ed intro, and thrown in there, in RP context, were the rules and different services, as if we were giving a tour to a first-time customer. If you guys are interested, I'll try to find the time to recreate the whole post as much as possible in a Google Doc.) and that our confirmation replies are RPed as much as possible. (of course, we wouldn't enforce RPing, both to everyone using the shop and to ourselves.) Yay or nay?

- Everything else: I think it can simply stay the way it is, or at least until we get more info on other stuff (like Contests). If there's any subject that I slipped, let me know!

Edit: For your convenience, here's a link to the original Boutique thread.

Missingno. Master 04-25-2017 04:00 PM

Shiny recolor rule: I'm all for relaxing this. I mean, obviously, we shouldn't be able to recolor a regular Weezing to look like a Shiny one, but I see no problem with being able to recolor its skull and crossbones to that same shade of blue. Nobody's gonna mistake that for a Shiny.

Shiny/Devolution Sprays being purchaseable: I'm all for it. Having them be buyable via coins considering the general idea of making coins for luxury item purchases, that I think would be a good move.

Birthmarks: I never got the logic behind the current restrictions. Nobody's gonna look at a striped Pichu and think, "that Elekid looks weird". I'm also in favor of, at the very least, a more relaxed time limit. I also think the time limit should count down from when the Pokémon came into your ownership, as opposed to when it was born. Suppose you get ahold of a Pokémon that's been around FB for ages but you want to reinvent its backstory? Case in point, my Shiny Beautifly. Granted, I don't intend to give her any kind of birthmark, but the point does still stand- you trade for a Pokémon, sometimes you want to wipe the slate clean as far as backstory, make up your own thing for it.

Tints: My Weedle's black tail stinger is classified as a tint because it came as the result of dipping said stinger in black ink repeatedly, so it does see use. That said, might not be a bad idea to at least try to make the rules on that clearer.

Scars: Absolutely agree on removing the "campaign-only" restriction. It's never made sense to me.

Deformities: It's an interesting idea, I think it's worth consideration.

Auras: I kinda like the sound of these.

Permanency: Absolutely agree that it shouldn't be absolutely 100% completely permanent if you don't want it to be. I recall some complaints about the inability to undo recoloring, so yeah, it makes sense to allow it to be changed for a small fee.

Furfrou trims: It won't ever apply to me (if ever I get a Furfrou, I won't trim it and just have it keep its natural look), but yeah- just making the trim last until you want it changed, that would be way simpler. Question- would it cost anything to make a trimmed Furfrou go back to its natural appearance?

RPing in the shop: I gotta say, I loved that time when I had my Pokédex and Smeargle's tail paint recolored, and you RP'd the confirmation post. :) So yeah, adding an RPing aspect to the Boutique, that has my full support, as long as it's made clear that by no means does anyone have to RP in the Boutique, just that it's a fun option if you'd like to.

134 04-26-2017 11:45 AM

Relaxing the "shiny recolor" rule. I'm for it. I think we can use common sense on this, but I would definitely argue that the whole 'reverse shiny' definitely doesn't count as 'too close' to the shiny. You know, the bit about how if a shiny is mostly black with a little red, and you recolor to be mostly red with a little black, that's too close? I don't buy that.

Inclusion of Shiny Spray and Devolution Spray as a purchasable items. I'm for it. I'd be fine with them either being cash products or coin products. I think I'd prefer them to be cash products personally, assuming cash is still the RP reward moving forward, but I'd make due either way.

Adding flexibility to special characteristics. Overall, I'm for it, but let's break it down:

Birthmarks. I think we can relax the 'looking too much like another Pokémon' thing. There might be a few occasions where you might have to say no -- I could see how a couple of birthmarks and physical defects along with a recolor could render a Plusle into a Minun -- but on the whole, it isn't a problem. As for the time limit... I'm indifferent, really. Having said that, I have no problem expanding it.

Scars. I absolutely think this needs to be relaxed. If you can devise a decent enough reason for your Pokémon to have a scar, I say go for it.

Deformed Pokémon. Yes please. As part of my characterization, my plan was to have Pokémon with various physical defects, diseases, and injuries. (I work at an IRL wildlife rehab and have a soft spot for the broken ones.) Things like congenital blindness, partially missing appendages (i.e. tail), stuff like that. I suppose it's a bit macabre, but it's all within the realm of possibility -- hell, one of my cats is missing a little over half of her tail! (She broke it before I got her and had to have it amputated.)

Auras. Sure, why not. I don't have much to say on this one.

Permanency. Why not introduce another luxury item Spray to remove Boutique changes? It could basically reset to zero and then you have an opportunity to redo everything, including scars, recolors, and birthmarks, for a limited time. It could be cheaper than the other two.

myahoo 04-28-2017 02:02 PM

I don't really have much to add, but I just wanted to say that I entirely support the changes to permanency.

Gemini Spark 05-01-2017 11:40 AM

Maybe we could add some more flexibility on size changing? Like making Pokemon up to 2-3 times bigger than normal or down to 1/3 the normal size?

Altocharizard55 05-01-2017 12:10 PM

As the math guy here, you probably don't want to use an actual linear scale for that. Imagine making a Wailord 3 times bigger, or a Joltik 3 times smaller, for an example of why this is probably a bad idea.

I think the rule of "expected natural variation" would allow for a minor degree of change, but I think you're pushing the bill quite far if you allow for too much in that direction.

Whimsy 05-01-2017 01:26 PM

As long as I can make my Taillow hilariously too smol then I don't care about the variation ranges - but I would appreciate having some frame of reference so I can have it make some logical sense. Like, how big would you say... Dragonair is,
if it's Dex entry has it's "height" measured from tip to tail (iirc?) and from that, where's the boundaries of how big/small we can make one?

Raves 05-01-2017 01:40 PM

Flexibility on size changes would be good to have.

My Golurk's original plan was to be scaled to around 30 feet tall (or 10 metres) as a building-sized sorta siege engine mon Alex would use to fly him and his team around.

OkikuMew 05-09-2017 08:31 PM

Sorry for the late response, especially since you guys brought up some things! ^^;

> Make anti-permanency a spray

That is actually a great idea! :3 I approve ^^ It fits with rest of the sprays being a purchasable thing. And I also agree it should definitely be less expensive than the other sprays ^^;

> More flexibility in size changes/restrictions

To be honest, I think the current rules for sizing are perfectly fine, as although it allows it to change, the restrictions are acceptable in terms of a natural Pokémon's size. But since it seems a LOT of you wants it... ^^; But how do you guys want it to be more flexible? The old rules states:

nothing more or less than half of it's "normal" size
As Alto mentioned, having something bigger (x2-x0.25 instead of the current x1.5-x0.5), calculated range than that can make some ridiculous changes allowed, especially if the Pokémon's sizes are already super smol or gigantic. But on the other hand, some Pokémon likely be ok to be a lot bigger than what's allowed now.... but again, we don't want to exaggerate either, since I don't want people to get in their heads that the size change will give an extra advantage in battles instead of being similar to a normal-sized Pokémon (as much as it sounds awesome, I don't want to see a Tyranitar turned into Godzilla.) It's a bit why that I didn't mind the current rules as it is, since it doesn't change the Pokémon THAT much but it still gives some changes.

One solution is that we simply get rid of the percentage thing and that I just go by my gut feeling on what looks right or wrong; but, to be honest, I'm afraid that at some point I judge a size change as unacceptable but then it triggers an Uproar for its unfairness, especially since I feel biased since I find the current rules ok ^^; And one thing I would like to reduce to a minimum, it's unfairness and "controversies".

So here's my not-perfect-but-it-may-do proposition/attempt to find a balance between flexibility and fairness: Keep the basic "more or less half the normal size" rule as the guideline that'll get an automatic approval, but if it goes beyond that, that it'll have another limit (double? double and a half? triple?) AND I have to make a judgement call to see if the new size is appropriate for the Pokémon and stuff. That way, I could give the OK for Rave's Golurk to be bigger than the usual limit of ~14 feet (but to be honest, and I am sorry for this as I love your idea for your team's transportation, but, I find 30 feet a bit too much...) but I can give a no to making a Wailord taller than 71 feet or a Joltik smaller than 2 inches (because... bejeezus.)

Sooooo... what you guys think?

On a side note: I probably gonna have to add as a rule in terms of size that during battles, any moves related to size will use only the normal size, despite modifications, out of fairness. Yay or nay?

> Recolors: What's shiny and what's not?

I just want to bring this up because I want (more of) you guys' opinions on how much a Pokémon can be considered a shiny or not. Sure, I want to add more flexibility than what it was before, but I want to see what is the level of ok-ness for everyone, so I have some kind of guideline to judge the recolors (and give a better idea for those who wants to do a recolor too!). Here's some things to look into:

- Parts of a Pokémon sharing shiny colors: That actually goes into different questions:
- Is it ok for the main color of a Pokémon be change to a color similar to a shiny? (Ex.: Charizard's main orange color are now black.) What to do when the main shiny color is already similar to the normal color? (Ex.: Clefairy's main color is pink in both normal and shiny forms; it's only slightly lighter in shiny form.)
- Is it ok for a "detail" part of a Pokémon be changed to a color similar to a shiny? (Ex.: The inside of Charizard's blue wings are now shiny red.) What if the "detail" is the main difference of normal vs. shiny? (Ex.: Clefairy's both forms are generally pink, with the only difference being the shiny has bright green ears instead of brown).
- Is it ok for only a part of the Pokémon being changed to a similar color to a shiny? (ex.: In a Two-Face kind of way, half of Charizard's body is the normal colors, while the other have are the shiny colors.) Is there a certain point that it may be acceptable? (ex.: Only one of Clefairy's ears are bright green, but everything else is like a normal Clefairy.)
- Is it ok for the part of the shiny colors to be reversed? (Ex.: Having Charizard's main color be red while the wings are black).
- Judging the similarity/difference of the colors: or in other words, how should I judge if a color is to similar to a shiny's or not? I mean, there's quite a few things to consider:
- How the color of normal Pokémon and shinies can be already similar (to the point it's hard to tell the difference...)
- How the same color (hue) can have a subtle difference of contract/lighting (dark blue vs. light blue)
- How a color in general can be interpreted in different ways depending on the screen AND the person
I have tried to find something on the internets that could calculate the percentage of similarity between colors, and I did found a calculator of color difference. (For those interested, the way it works is you put in the Lab reference and Lab sample the LAB "code" of the colors (it's kinda similar to RGB, CMYK, HSB...), then when you calculate, the "CIE 1994 (Graphic Arts)" gives the percentage of how close each color are different from each other: 100% is completely different (ie black and white) while 0 is the same exact color.) So with that, I could concretely look via numbers of a color would be similar or not. (iio, anything lower than 20% of difference was too close to comfort.) Of course it would be freakin' annoying to do that for every damn color every time there's a recolor, but I thought it would be a tool for whenever there's a close call. What do you guys think?

OkikuMew 05-11-2017 10:08 AM

Sorry for the double posting!

So from the Economy talk thread, it comes to my attention that some stuff needs to be talked to here:

- Should be recolors/modifications/special characteristics stay free (for the first new modification on a Pokémon anyway), or should all services cost something? I personally don't like the idea since the services has always been free. However, putting a cost to every modification could make the "redo spray" obsolete as you can just pay again to remodify.

- Should items like the official contest accessories and the Mega accessories be sold in another shop? The reason they fit here is because they're accessories and some (namely the mega accessories) needs a level of customization. But since they're items that are "essential" to playing and will be sold for Pokédollars instead of Coins (since, as discussed in the economy thread, most Boutique things are considered as a small luxury, therefore should be sold for a small amount of coins), they may be more appropriate to put those items in a different, pokedollar-based shop. Also, I want to add that in the past, in the introduction of the Contest items and Mega accessories in the shop, Tess wanted to have them sold in another shop, but the idea was canned because no other shop fit for selling them, and making a new shop just for those items was silly/useless.

And while I'm here:

- Should the devolution spray be sold elsewhere also? Sure it's a spray that will go with the shiny spray, but it still feels a little out of place.

- should the Z-accessories sold here too, along with the Mega accessories?

Lil'twick 05-11-2017 12:59 PM

SO my main question here is that will misc. accessories like clothing and stuff be paid with cash or coins? They were cash before and I'd honestly prefer that.

In regards to Oki's questions, I'd say yes to the last two. Recolors should be free tbh, no need to put a price on something historically free that's cosmetic. For the accessories keep them here. It fits with the theme and prevents thread clutter tbh. It also allows them to be buyable sooner than latter.

OkikuMew 05-11-2017 03:21 PM


Originally Posted by Lil'twick (Post 790419)
SO my main question here is that will misc. accessories like clothing and stuff be paid with cash or coins? They were cash before and I'd honestly prefer that.

Well as mentioned in the economy thread, I definitely prefer to have most items and services sold in Pokédollars, since it's already like that (and as far as I can tell, there's been no complaints), they're not "powerful" game-wise, and since it's the easily-obtainable currency, anyone are able to custom their Pokémon and stuff as they see fit, which in turn helps in the RPing. The only exceptions for my preference of cash is the devolution/shiny sprays and perhaps some other new rare items (?). However, if everyone seems to prefer to pay with (a low amount of) coins instead as they see those items as a luxury (which is a good point), I'll be ok with that.


Originally Posted by Lil'twick (Post 790419)
In regards to Oki's questions, I'd say yes to the last two. Recolors should be free tbh, no need to put a price on something historically free that's cosmetic. For the accessories keep them here. It fits with the theme and prevents thread clutter tbh. It also allows them to be buyable sooner than latter.

To be honest it's also my opinion, but I still see what to see everyone's feedback, too :)

But here's a question related to the Z-accessories: What should be sold, exactly? I would assume that the Z Ring and Crystals will be acquired in the same way as a Key Stones and Mega Stones (how/where do you get those, anyway? I forgot ;-;), sooo I guess we just custom the Z-Rings? Or maybe people want a custom Z-Crystal holder too (even though as far as I can tell, those are not seen anywhere in the Pokémon franchise)?

134 05-18-2017 11:16 AM

What topics do we have left to clear up before the Boutique opens? I'd like to officialize some recolors soon. >>;

As for Z-Crystals, I'm fine with custom Z-holders that aren't rings, if people really want them. It may not be in the series but honestly, it's no skin off my nose.

OkikuMew 05-18-2017 04:07 PM

Thanks for the reminder for a topic cleanup, Tate! :) Let's see what we've got. I've color-coded things to be a bit more clear (green = mostly accepted, yellow = accepted but needs clarification/more validation; orange = still in debate/needs a LOT more validation and/or info)

  • Everyone agrees that the "shiny rule" should be relaxed compared to back in the day.
  • Everyone also seems to agree that the infamous "Shiny Spray" should be available for all, but at a high price.
  • A new idea of a "anti-recolor spray" has sprout out, and seems to be accepted?
  • Same goes for the "Devolution Spray": Yay or nay?
  • However, I am still waiting for feedback about what we should be considered as a "too close for comfort to a shiny" or not. It's kinda important since nobody wants another "scandal" of having a recolor denied because it was deemed close to a shiny when the popular opinion is on the contrary.

Special Characteristics:
  • Everyone seems to agree that rules on birthmarks and scars are outta here. no more time limit, no more "Pichu looking like an Elekid", no more scars only from campaigns.
  • General consensus goes towards being more accepting to physical deformities, as long as it's within the realm of IRL natural things, doesn't give an advantage to the Pokémon, and is not painful for the Pokémon.
  • Furfrou trims should cost something but are permanent; No more visiting every 2 weeks to keep a trim up.
  • Auras seem to have a general "accepting shrug", so yeah, let's throw that in.
  • We haven't talked much about the tints though, besides MM. I think all we can add is say that, as an example of a precision of that rule/thing: "A tint is a very change of color on a semi-insignificant part of a Pokémon caused by an event, use of item or otherwise not caused by a natural occurrence. It is not a recolor, as it does not change the natural color of the Pokémon, per say. Pokémon can have as many tints as they want that are not contradictory to each other." (I think people agree that the "only one tint per pokémon" rule is a bit too much.)
  • The debate about the flexibility of height changes is still ongoing. Some wants to go beyond the current limit (x1.5 or x0.5 the normal Pokémon height), but others finds that going beyond those numbers would be too much. My proposed "in-between" solution is immediately accept height changes with the old rules, no accepting things that goes beyond x3 or x0.25, but for anything between those limits, that is up to my judgement call to say if they're ok or not.

Accessories and stuff:
  • Accessories, contest or custom, are here to stay.
  • Mega accessories are also here to stay.
  • Custom Z-accessories (Z-Ring) seems to be more fitting here because customisation (just like the Pokédex)?

  • Seems like people prefer to have everything that is currently free (recoloring, special characteristics and region-specific Pokédex) should stay free, but just want confirmation.
  • There's still a crap-ton of debate on whenever cash, coins or both should be used for purchases in the Boutique. Here's a rundown of all paid items, at the moment:
    • Custom Pokédex: 10$
    • Custom Pokémon accessories: 10$
    • Official Contest accessories: ??? (undetermined, link to "contest shop" broken and contests not really being a thing either...)
    • Custom Key Stone Accessory: 20$
    • Custom Mega Stone Accessory: 50$
    • Custom Z-Accessory: ??? (TBD, should be small-medium price?)
    • Furfrou Trim: ??? (TBD, should be small price?)
    • Shiny Spray: ??? (TBD, should be high price?)
    • Devolution Spray: ??? (TBD, should be high price?)
    • All-Cleaning Spray: ??? (TBD, should be small-medium price?)
    Soooooooooooo what should be cash, what should be coins? All cash? All coins? Depends? Please share, I don't know anymore ^^;

Missingno. Master 05-23-2017 04:12 PM

>"too-close-to-Shiny" recolors
My opinion, in cases that aren't so obvious, someone should recolor that Pokémon's sprite to the desired recolor, put it next to the Shiny sprite of that Pokémon, and we should look at them side by side, see whether it really is easy to mistake the recolor for the Shiny. If the Shiny is easily distinguishable from the recolor at a glance, allow it. If you gotta really examine it up close or look for subtle differences to tell which one is the Shiny, then disallow it. And maybe allow for community input on this, see what the people make of it.

>size changes
That sounds like a decent solution to me. :) Will we be allowing re-resizing of already resized Pokémon once the new limits are in place? My Weedle, for example- if I can make her any larger than she already is, I would like to.

The community seems to be jumping on board with Marion's idea to wipe out coins altogether, so... I'm gonna say all cash, because that may well be the only option. Furfrou trims I don't see costing very much at all, maybe just 10 to give it a specific trim. My opinion, changing it back to its natural appearance shouldn't cost anything, but that's just me. Obviously, Shiny and Devolution Sprays should be very expensive, but yeah, All-Cleaning Spray, not nearly as expensive. Custom Z-Accessory should be about the same price as a Custom Key Stone Accessory, IMO. No clue whatsoever on Contest accessories- that's a bridge that can be crossed when we get to the subject of Contests in the first place, IMO.

Emi 05-23-2017 07:34 PM

The only thing I'm going to say about the Shiny Spray is that while I really think it should be updator-only, as its a nice reward for the people who keep this game going, if we do allow it to be purchased, it should be difficult to do without updating.

OkikuMew 05-23-2017 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Emi (Post 791733)
The only thing I'm going to say about the Shiny Spray is that while I really think it should be updator-only, as its a nice reward for the people who keep this game going, if we do allow it to be purchased, it should be difficult to do without updating.

Hmmm, alright, let me see if I can make a good calculation for a price that fits that criteria:

I'll estimate that a non-updater person writes something once a week, so gets about 250$ a week, so 13,000$ a year.

As for an updator, on the other hand... that's gonna need some extra calculating:
  • An updator could update 5 people in one post, once a week.
  • Since an update = 1 FC, they get 5 FC/week, therefore 260 FC a year.
  • Following the attempted new updater rewards, that means the following:
    • It'll take 10 weeks for an updator to get a free shiny spray.
    • They'll get 11,500$ out of the rewards (Whoa wait, less than an updatee? Then again, updators gets all that snazzy stuff and may be updatee themselves...)

So basing on that, plus on the fact that some non-updater post more often than that and gets dollars in events and stuff... would 30,000$ for a price of a shiny spray be fair?

It's definitely harder to get for a normal member compared to an updator, as a "typical" (?) updator can get a shiny spray in 10 weeks, while it'll take a "typical" normal member either 2.3 years of updating every week, or write a zone post everyday to get one within 4 months, or, to try to go at the same speed as an updator, somehow write 120 zone posts in 70 days.

134 05-23-2017 08:49 PM

$30,000 Shiny Spray seems fair to me, personally.

Muyotwo 05-27-2017 09:06 PM

I would prefer no shiny spray and further limiting the recolors available, possibly only to the "tint" option. No shiny spray is a bigger one though, I think it takes away from the actual pursuit of shinies.

Missingno. Master 05-27-2017 10:14 PM

Question- dropping the rule about special characteristics not making one Pokémon resemble another, does this extend to regular recolors as well? I ask because I plan to recolor my Vulpix so she retains the Vulpix color scheme upon evolution into Ninetales, and I just want to make absolutely sure this would be OK.

OkikuMew 05-27-2017 10:30 PM


Originally Posted by Muyotwo (Post 792197)
I would prefer no shiny spray and further limiting the recolors available, possibly only to the "tint" option. No shiny spray is a bigger one though, I think it takes away from the actual pursuit of shinies.

So one vote for no shiny spray available...

What do you mean by "limiting the recolors available", though? I mean, already that the main complaint in the past was the fact that recolors weren't flexible enough... And what about the recolors done and confirmed in the past that will no longer be "legit" with the new recolor restrictions?


Originally Posted by Missingno. Master (Post 792207)
Question- dropping the rule about special characteristics not making one Pokémon resemble another, does this extend to regular recolors as well? I ask because I plan to recolor my Vulpix so she retains the Vulpix color scheme upon evolution into Ninetales, and I just want to make absolutely sure this would be OK.

I'm pretty sure something similar was done in the past in terms of recolors; It was acceptable then, so I don't see why it wouldn't be acceptable now! Obviously the only exception that it wouldn't be acceptable if it happens that the pre-evolution normal color is to similar to the evolution shiny color (which... I don't think there's a case like that tbh, but still, a fail-safe/application of the no shiny recolor rule)

Missingno. Master 05-29-2017 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by OkikuMew (Post 792210)
I'm pretty sure something similar was done in the past in terms of recolors; It was acceptable then, so I don't see why it wouldn't be acceptable now! Obviously the only exception that it wouldn't be acceptable if it happens that the pre-evolution normal color is to similar to the evolution shiny color (which... I don't think there's a case like that tbh, but still, a fail-safe/application of the no shiny recolor rule)

Cool, thanks for clarifying. :) And yeah, the only case I can think of where the evolution's Shiny looks like the pre-evo's normal coloration is Magikarp/Gyarados, and even then, I only know that because of how the anime explained the Red Gyarados.

Also, http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/8/...9monDollar.png30,000 for the Shiny Spray sounds like a fair price.

Ex-Admiral Insane 06-05-2017 08:01 AM

So I haven’t given my input on this which is why I’m doing it now. This conversation has run a bit still and I think we can clear up some of the issues to have a basis of the Boutique that can be put in.

Yeah, a member should have the option to revert any changes they made.

>Recolours and Tints
Honestly, these just seem like parts of the same mechanic so I think we can just group them.

>Shiny & Devolution Spray
While it is nice to have these be purchasable, I’m going to have to agree that I’d like to see a few things be Updater-only and I think these two are perfect for that. We can always add these items to the Boutique later but for the first version I don’t think it’s necessary to have them yet.

>Free re-colours
No. Honestly, even if they are aesthetic changes mostly I think it should cost something to have your party be made unique or otherwise. Price can be negotiable but I’m not in favour of having too many free things. I mean honestly, 1 zone reply should be enough to pay for it. A Player then technically has to RP to adjust their Pokémon’s traits

>Shiny Colours
There’s just not going to be a one, simple, easy way to decide if something is too close to being a shiny or not. This is something that can be judged on a cases by case basis I believe. And we can add the clause that if something is considered out-of-bounds after the change, the colour trait can be reversed and the member gains the cost back.

>Size alterations.
There’s no 1 standard way to do this. I think 50% is a good way to go and we should consider keeping it. One other thing we could do is to have exponentially, incremental payments. So you pay X amount for the first 50%, then 2X for the next 50% (on top of the first payment), then 3X for the next (on top of the first 2 payments), etc. It can still lead up to ridiculous size changes but if someone is willing to pay these outrageous amounts then perhaps we should consider letting them. And most of these changes are not supposed to confer battle or RP advantages anyway, though that is dependent on the updater. So we can add the clause that an updater can refuse to update a certain Pokémon based on its size or ignore it altogether - but that may cross a line.

>Trainer Accessories
Yes, I think we should have this. Players gain the standard colour Pokédex, Z-ring and Mega Ring but have to pay to ‘personalise’ it to their liking

>Contest Accessories
While I can see the logic in having contest items be sold here, I’d rather not open the option of purchasing those things yet until we have a fully-fleshed idea on how Contests will work. If we even add contests to FB in the first place. This is something that can easily be added to the Boutique later in time when it is needed.

I think the ones OM has provided are drastically low to be honest. $10 for trainer items is literally nothing when players and updaters get $250 for a zone reply. I think trying to personalise your trainer and Pokémon should cost a lot more than this, and a member should have put effort into RP’ing to earn the cash needed for this. Below I have given my ideas for costs and rules for the Boutique.

The Boutique

A place where a Pokémon’s unique characteristics can be catalogued, as well as where trainer accessories can be purchased.

Pokémon Traits:
$100 – Accessories. Non-contest accessories may be purchased and added to your Pokémon here. This service is also for Mega Stone accessories for Pokémon. (A Pokémon may change part of its design provided the change isn’t controversial, provides an advantage or puts the Pokémon in pain. Judged on a case by case basis.)
$200 – Recolours and tints. (A Pokémon may change the colour of its body or part of it provided the colour isn’t controversial or too closely mimics its shiny form. Judged on a case by case basis.)
$300 – Birthmarks, scars and deformities. (A Pokémon may change part of its design provided the change isn’t controversial, provides an advantage or puts the Pokémon in pain. Judged on a case by case basis.)
$300 – Auras. (A Pokémon may have an aura provided the aura isn’t controversial, provides an advantage or too closely mimics its shiny form. Judged on a case by case basis.)
$300 – Size alterations. (A Pokémon may change its size by 50% of its standard height. Weight will be adjusted accordingly as well. This characteristic does not provide an advantage and may not put the Pokémon in pain.)
$100 – Furfrou Trims. Furfrou’s trim may be purchased here. It is considered permanent until another trim has been purchased.
$100 – Natural Spray. This item removes any or all traits a Pokémon may have gained through the Boutique.

Trainer Items:
$100 – Pokédex. Your Pokédex may be of any of the generations’ standard designs. Here you may purchase to have it be recoloured, gain a motif, have a pattern, etc.
$100 – Mega Ring. Your Keystone is fitted into a standard Mega Ring. Here you may purchase to have a unique accessory in which to house the Keystone.
$100 – Z-Ring. Your Z-Crystals are fitted into a standard Z-Ring. Here you may purchase to have a unique accessory in which to house the Z-Crystals.

1. You may request to change specific traits of a Pokémon or adjust a Trainer Item here in exchange for Pokédollars.
2. All changes are considered permanent unless payment has been made to adjust or remove these traits (see Natural Spray).
3. Pokémon changes are for aesthetic purposes only. No battling or RP advantages may be gained this way, though your updater has the final say on this.
4. Adjusted traits may not be controversial. This includes notably putting the Pokémon in pain or using the trait as a platform for discrimination/bullying. This will be judged on a case by case basis.
5. In case of recolours and tints, shiny colourations or those considered to be too close to a shiny colour are off limits. This is judged on a case by case basis.
6. If an adjusted trait is considered controversial after it has been implemented, the member may still be requested to revert the change. The member will be refunded appropriately, though this is subject to repeal depending on the member’s intent.

deoxys 06-05-2017 11:45 AM

I have nothing to add as of now except that I am extremely against the idea of a Devolution Spray. It just doesn't make sense for... for any reason. At all. Its very existence is, in and of itself, a Full Henderson (for Pokemon).

If you want to 'devolve' your Pokemon, breed it and make a new one to raise. Simple as that. Resorting to a spray to do it is both lazy and extremely bad form for the narrative and the game...

kawaiiconcept 06-05-2017 11:56 AM

yeah i dont get devolution spray

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