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-   -   American Politics (http://forums.upnetwork.net/showthread.php?t=4569)

Concept 09-27-2019 11:59 AM

I know my countries politics are somewhat of a joke right now so I can't really comment, but the fact that Sanders and Warren could be considered extreme in the US is a mark of how bonkers US politics really is compared to the rest of the free world. It's not a direct translation obviously but from what I know of them in most of Europe they'd be firmly centre-left. Biden/Obama centre-right.

Not that the UK really has a major centre ground party at the moment, out two main parties having veered off to the extreme ends of their bases. Warren/Sanders would fit right in amongst the MPs who've left Labour over the past year for being too left wing.

Doppleganger 10-03-2019 04:33 PM

Donald Trump is the Clown King and I'm really glad he didn't sign my commission. I know I said the impeachment was silly but get that gadfly out of office, please.

Doppleganger 11-24-2019 10:32 AM

I got an update that Michael Bloomberg is making a run at the presidency as a Democrat.

I don't know much about him aside from he's a billionaire and is better-regarded as the NY mayor than Giuliani ever was. I think he's the first candidate in...a decade to be of decent quality.

Anyone who lives in NY have objections about him?

Shuckle 11-27-2019 10:49 AM

He's a good guy but I think he's gonna poll at close to 0 and drop out pretty quickly.

Most likely he's joining the race to stave off negative stereotypes about the rich and provide a "Hey wait but being a billionaire is fine actually don't eat me" counterpoint on stage to the fiercely antitrust Warren/Sanders.

McSweeney 11-28-2019 12:02 AM

I was watching an American TV channel and saw an ad for Bloomberg's campaign come up. The voice said, "He will make the rich pay their fair share." I thought: was this a joke? Now that he's 77 years old and will be dead soon NOW he's willing to share some of his billions upon billions of dollars?

deoxys 12-19-2019 12:35 AM

Heh

sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat 12-19-2019 03:00 AM

The retarded Cheeto is gone! Hurrah! Hurrah!

Selena 12-19-2019 04:28 AM

Not yet, the senate still needs to vote too. It'likely to not pass through the senate, but at least you will see which politicians will put party above constitution.

Emi 12-19-2019 09:26 AM

Considering not a single Republican in the house voted yay

the answer is the lot of them

Selena 12-19-2019 02:50 PM

Was talking more about which of the corrupted dems. But maybe one or two GOP members will surprise us.

Emi 12-19-2019 03:29 PM

We can yell at Gabbard is we want

Coolz8 12-25-2019 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concept (Post 834079)
I know my countries politics are somewhat of a joke right now so I can't really comment, but the fact that Sanders and Warren could be considered extreme in the US is a mark of how bonkers US politics really is compared to the rest of the free world. It's not a direct translation obviously but from what I know of them in most of Europe they'd be firmly centre-left. Biden/Obama centre-right.

Not that the UK really has a major centre ground party at the moment, out two main parties having veered off to the extreme ends of their bases. Warren/Sanders would fit right in amongst the MPs who've left Labour over the past year for being too left wing.

Extreme right wing individuals paint the center as extremist left to veer people more to the right

Doppleganger 02-05-2020 12:08 PM

Trump awarded Rush Limbaugh the Medal of Freedom, and Nancy Pelosi had a meltdown for the ages. One of the funniest things I've ever seen on political news (outside of some European throwing a shoe at GWB).

Shuckle 02-08-2020 01:53 AM

Awarding any kind of honor to Rush Limbaugh is a risky political move. I'm surprised people aren't more upset. Limbaugh is a troublemaker whose main claim to fame is that he calls Democrats nasty names just like Trump does. I'm not saying this because I'm mad about his politics. I've tuned into his show. This is literally what Rush Limbaugh does 24/7. He makes fun of the Democrats and says bigoted shit.

I think Democrats are genuinely putting their heads down and trying not to stir up trouble among the rabid Republican base, for fear of a repeat of 2016. With the election so close, anything that makes Democrats look bad or incompetent makes Trump look viable. I hear a lot of whispers of "Both sides" from people who are trying to stay politically informed, and that's a scary thing to hear - to compare the current crop of Democrats to Donald fucking Trump, easily the worst President we have *ever* had, is a bad omen.

Doppleganger 02-08-2020 06:52 AM

Trump isn't the worst president. Most of the damage he's done has been intangible, i.e. to the perception of the presidency and the populace's attitude toward politics, rather than to structural factors like the economy or war. It's amazing that the economy can be doing so well in spite of Trump rocking the boat with China.

GWB was much worse and the recent nostalgia for his presidency smells really bad. People are susceptible to suggestion due to their in-the-moment dislike of Trump, and it overrides logic...look at the same movement of people who are gushing over the Star Wars prequels because they're so alienated by the J.J. Abrams movies.

GWB, Obama, and Trump are among the most powerful presidents in history. They've effectively reversed a lot of the losses from Nixon and are closer to kings than constitution.

I think Trump is easily one of the most detestable presidents we've ever had, but...I think he's far more bark than bite. A lot of bark, I might add.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuckle
Awarding any kind of honor to Rush Limbaugh is a risky political move. I'm surprised people aren't more upset. Limbaugh is a troublemaker whose main claim to fame is that he calls Democrats nasty names just like Trump does. I'm not saying this because I'm mad about his politics. I've tuned into his show. This is literally what Rush Limbaugh does 24/7. He makes fun of the Democrats and says bigoted shit.

I don't think he's deserving, but his award does bring up some interesting points.

The first is that people think that because Mother Theresa, Rosa Parks were awarded the medal, that means all future awardees should be of the same caliber. I'll note that those two were not awarded the medal ASAP and it's disingenuous to think that an award should be witheld just because merit falls short of legendary status.

Limbaugh getting the Medal of Freedom isn't worse than Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama got the Peace Prize for getting elected, he did absolutely nothing personally to earn it.

I say this because Limbaugh's effect on the Silent Majority can't be understated, his influence is in the same hemisphere and perhaps greater than the Koch Bros. He's definitely a disgusting person but he was definitely had a dramatic effect on 20th Century politics. Awarding the medal to someone like Lou Dobbs would have been far more outrageous to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuckle
I think Democrats are genuinely putting their heads down and trying not to stir up trouble among the rabid Republican base, for fear of a repeat of 2016. With the election so close, anything that makes Democrats look bad or incompetent makes Trump look viable. I hear a lot of whispers of "Both sides" from people who are trying to stay politically informed, and that's a scary thing to hear - to compare the current crop of Democrats to Donald fucking Trump, easily the worst President we have *ever* had, is a bad omen.

I don't think this is intentional. They're starved for leadership. I got my primary ballot yesterday and none of the candidates look electable (I voted Bloomberg).

I think Biden is the strongest candidate, but the entire Hunter Biden affair submarined him big time. I think the Democrats feel the same and like what Concept mentioned in the British Politics thread regarding BoJo, for Trump it's about getting an opponent he can beat to run against him.

Biden could have beaten him in 2016, if he wasn't too chicken to run then. If Trump beat Hillary, no way will Bernie, Warren, or any of the greenhorn millennial wannabes stand a chance.

Shuckle 02-10-2020 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppleganger (Post 837925)
Trump isn't the worst president. Most of the damage he's done has been intangible, i.e. to the perception of the presidency and the populace's attitude toward politics, rather than to structural factors like the economy or war. It's amazing that the economy can be doing so well in spite of Trump rocking the boat with China.

Imagine, if you will, a President who was in office at the start of the Great Depression in 1929. This President saw the stock market crash that led to millions of Americans losing their jobs, their homes, and their savings. His response was to allow the free market to run its course and eventually correct things. As everyone except for conservatives knows, this did not end up happening.

This President will be remembered more charitably than Trump will if he is reelected. Trump's approaches to foreign policy, global warming, inequality, and immigration are essentially leading to a giant meltdown that will eventually engulf the country in a ball of fire. Not only has Trump's Republican Party not taken any actions to solve these incredibly important problems, they have actually taken steps in the entirely wrong direction that will need to be corrected and reversed before we can start making progress in the right one.

Quote:

GWB was much worse and the recent nostalgia for his presidency smells really bad. People are susceptible to suggestion due to their in-the-moment dislike of Trump, and it overrides logic...look at the same movement of people who are gushing over the Star Wars prequels because they're so alienated by the J.J. Abrams movies.
GWB was a bad president, but Trump benefits greatly from the fact that history has revealed pretty much everything that happened during previous administrations and makes us think that we know even half of what is happening during the Trump admin. If the whispers are anything close to true, Trump is just as much as traitor as Nixon and Reagan before him. Perhaps even more so. And that's on top of the multiple demonstrable policy missteps, personal failings, and incompetent actions that we've seen out of Trump over these last four years.

Doppleganger 02-19-2020 03:34 PM

Rod Blagojevich is free yuk yuk yuk.

Doppleganger 02-28-2020 10:49 PM

I think if the Democrats want to out Trump the best way is to use coronavirus as an example of why he's a screw-up. The CDC page for COVID-19 should be the #1 hit on Google, and it should give the facts of the virus in a concise way to alleviate panic about the disease.

Stress that transmission to the US is inevitable and require national protocols for handling it. Have emergency contract workers available to handle jobs in case business is slowed down by the virus.

Trump's entire strategy was to deny coronavirus was a problem and blame Democrats and the media for fearmongering, implying his quarantine was ironclad. No, that makes you look like a moron.

There is going to be an economic meteor strike when the virus hits the US. Unlike China, the US can't use an authoritarian power to quarantine the virus. Healthcare workers will be hurt too, meaning that intensive care will be undermanned for the infirm or young cases who get it.

I'm (kind of) lucky in that I telecommute so I didn't have to call in sick except when the viral load was at its peak, but most of the US isn't that lucky.

Doppleganger 03-02-2020 03:09 PM

And now the ugly truth has reared its head, revealing the Democratic Party not a party brought together by marginalized groups, but an anti-Republican, not! coalition of groups that actually don't like one another.

Concept 03-06-2020 03:43 AM

It's almost like trying to reduce an entire countries politics down to a binary choice is absurd.

(Not a dig at you Dopple, more at winner takes all voting systems).

Doppleganger 03-12-2020 03:30 PM

Trump is finished. I had pegged him as a pretty strong reelection candidate but his idiocy over the past month is likely to be fatal.

Instead of trying to treat the disaster like a hurricane, he instead shifted blame to the media (even though it's NOT HIS FAULT!) and is continuing to push a nativist agenda with the European travel ban, even when the cases in the US basically showed that quarantines in the US won't work. There's too much landmass to police properly, so detection, treatment and mitigation are the only ways to deal with this.

Perception matters as much, if not more than reality when it comes to human emotion. And rather than ramp up the production of test kits, he's trying to superficially take actions consistent with his populist agenda (US first, US best), failing to recognize that the path to a swift recovery is counter to such bluster.

A little information on such test kits - they're done through serology, where antibodies on paper from rabbits or other animals will change colour when presented with antigen from the coronavirus. It is conceivable to repurpose animal incubators for coronavirus production, but that wasn't communicated even if it's in motion, and I doubt Trump even realizes this.

Another important detail about medical professionals is that many of them are yes men and are hesitant to say anything that could potentially make them liable. If you want to get ripped like a movie star, most hospital nutritionists won't help you, they only want you to live "healthy". Sports doctors have a massive incentive to lie to teams because teams don't want to be told bad news about athletes. I highly suspect that Trump's bad information is a combination of getting people like this, while also not listening to them at all.

I voted for Mike Bloomberg in the Democratic Primary (with the intent to vote Trump in the general election), but I'm starting to think that Bernie Sanders would be the lesser evil of the three. Trump and Biden are incredibly stupid, and though nobody can control Trump, Biden is easily made a pawn of more powerful people.

Sanders' crazy will be reigned in by the much-stronger Republican coalitions, since Democrats won't be uniformly on his side either.

What a horrid and distasteful half decade we're headed into.

Concept 03-12-2020 03:45 PM

The travel ban is hilarious given the US has more cases than most of the countries he's banning travel from (Italy excepted, of course). Man is such a tool.

Then again the UK response has been essentially nonexistent. The PM admitted today that by expert advice we're about four weeks behind Italy- confirmed case number is so low because they refuse to test anyone who hasn't travelled to an "at risk" country. And we're not even on your travel ban list ��

sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat 03-12-2020 05:28 PM

There's still a Cheeto. This is bullshit.

Doppleganger 03-13-2020 02:12 PM

This person basically plagiarized me but I don't really care.

Trump is indeed toast but there's no other options, really. Trump/Hillary and Trump/Biden/Sanders are all foul choices, so there's little way to punish Trump for ineffectual leadership.

I might still end up voting for him just because the other 3 years do matter, but the inability to handle a crisis starts with recognizing it as a crisis.

So dumb!

Emi 03-13-2020 02:26 PM

Man it would be great if I had rights huh


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