Borat.

[Doppleganger]

I just saw this movie, since my Dad & sister have wanted to watch it for a long time and it's got high reviews. However, I will say:

AVOID THIS MOVIE AT ALL COSTS.

...

It sucks. Badly. It's not about not being politically correct, it's crude, rude, and just plain nasty. I don't know about the show but it's probably funnier than this trash.

[Another Fan]

This is a bit late for most people, really.

[Doppleganger]

This is a bit late for most people, really.


Given the overwhelming amount of positive reviews for this show, any dissent at any time is a necessity.

[Another Fan]

Good point.

Yeah, I saw it. I didn't mind. I laughed the most I had in a really long time. So, you know, whatever.

[ForeverFlygon]

This is a bit late for most people, really.

Not for me. And I will watch it tonight. Seem the show, and clips of te movie. It seems great, however, if it really is that way, I've yet to discover.

[Sylar]

This thread is wrong.

That is all. :P

[Talon87]

The movie seems to promote the idea of "racism is funny!" I'm basing this off of the commercials and previews for the movie, as well as on LittleKuriboh's Shadi character in his YGO:TAS movies. I mean, some people have no trouble laughing at lines like "This little Jew boy must be hiding his devil horns underneath that hair," but for me, it's pretty disheartening that people think for even one second that it's okay to take disgusting stereotypes about people (e.g. "All Arabs hate Jews and form conspiracy theories against them left and right") and try to turn it into light-hearted comedy.

That stated, if you interpret the video another way, it suddenly (can) become much much better: that rather than portraying people from Kazakhstan as backwards for our entertainment, the comedian is actually trying to say, "Fucking Americans, this is how you guys view and treat foreigners. And they're aware of it. So I'm going to satirize that aspect of your society by making a movie in which 'the very portrait of Middle Eastern foreigners' you're always imagining actually comes to life in the form of Borat." (Yes, I know, Kazakhstan is not Middle Eastern; but you get my point.)

I'd like to think that the comedian was that smart and noble, and is trying to not make fun of Kazakhstanis (and other 3rd world peoples from around the world) but is actually making fun of Americans (their media and the individuals themselves) for believing in stereotypes about foreigners which the ridiculous Borat character represents.

[Sylar]

Right, to counter the racism thing.

Sacha Baron Cohen, the guy who IS Borat, is actually a...Jew! Yes, it's still racist, but since it's somebody making fun of their own religion and culture, it's not really as bad.

Like Chris Rock, when he makes fun of black poeple. :O

[Talon87]

Sacha Baron Cohen, the guy who IS Borat, is actually a...Jew! Yes, it's still racist, but since it's somebody making fun of their own religion and culture, it's not really as bad.

Like Chris Rock, when he makes fun of black poeple. :O
I respectfully disagree with Mel Brooks, Jerry Seinfeld, and every black comedian since the 1970s. Why?

Because, when a black man comes up and says to me "EQUAL RIGHTS, HO! :evil: " and then says to me "I get to make fun of black people, but you don't! :twisted: " I want to tell him to fuck off. When a Jew comes along and says, "We were oppressed during the Holocaust! :evil: " but then I see him making jokes about the Holocaust (and don't give me that "coping mechanism" crap; he's not the one who went through it and nearly died!), then I know that he doesn't really give a shit about the dark gravity of the Holocaust and he's just using people's emotionality over the event to generate kneejerk responses. Comedy at its worst.

I am a huge believer in "no discrimating based on skin color, race, gender, etc." So what really pisses me off is ...
- racism
- comedians who count on people's discomfort with racism to generate laughs (i.e. "let's make the scary man go away by laughing at him")
- people who say, "I demand equal rights, but I also demand special treatment." (THE FUCK!?!?!?!?)

If anything, the guy who plays Borat (if he really is Jewish) is the worst kind of human being -- the kind who sells out his own people for personal gain. The movie Borat is not enjoyed by most people on the satirical, brainy level I'd HOPE to enjoy it as. Most people I've run into who enjoyed Borat are "closet anti-Arabs" who distrust Arabs and harbor anti-Arab sentiment and find Borat to be a great chance to "laugh at somebody even more racist than me." That seems to be the case. Because then what people do is, they say, "Wow, look at this over-the-top Arab dude saying horrible things about Jews. Hahaha, what a raghead. :lol: " And that's where I say Slow the fuck down, asswipe. :evil: What did you just say? "Raghead"? Do you realize ......... in your attempt to "laugh at the bad guys who laugh at Jews," you became the very bad guy who laughs at Arabs?

The solution to anti-Semitism is not to foster anti-Arab sentiment instead; and Jews like the guy who plays Borat (who seem to think that, based on what I've heard about this movie) really need a swift kick to the crotch. :evil: They're insult to all of my Jewish friends and they're an insult to what humanity has worked so hard to achieve over the past 100 years.

[Talon87]

I wanted to add this earlier (but signed off and went grocery shopping) ...

Let's say you're right, Joe. Let's say you're right that "a comedian should be allowed to make fun of his own people." I'd still say that the guy who plays Borat is an asshole with an agenda, then. Why? Because he's not a Jew making fun of Jews. He's a Jew making fun of Arabs who all supposedly hate Jews. If you were right, then it would be cool if an Arab comedian [size=-2:fff4c](or other Middle Easterner ... I still don't know why the fuck he chose Kazakhstan, they have no anti-Semitic sentiment afaik)[/size:fff4c] did it. But since Borat (the fake man) is supposed to be a Jew-hating "Arab", and since the guy who plays Borat is a Jew ... it's actually the OPPOSITE of the comedy you condone. It's more like these examples:

- a white guy dressing up as a black guy who hates the Po-Leese
- a black guy dressing up as a white guy who says "The only good n*g**r is a dead n*g**r"
- an Asian guy dressing up as a black guy who says "The only thing I love more than hash is White Castle!"
- a black guy dressing up as an Asian guy saying "Me make you Supah Fwai Wai!" [trans. "I'll make you Super Fried Rice"]

And this sort of comedy does exist in the world. The Wayan Brothers' film White Chicks is (yet another example in the long, long history of) comedies made by black people for black people. But in this particular film, they pretend to be "white chicks" and bust out every stereotype black people have about white people -- including the stereotypes they believe white people have about black people! As for the "Fwai Wai" bit, I saw this recently on a retarded YouTube video where "Jose Conseco" plays the Red Power Ranger.

That's the problem with films like Borat, White Chicks, and the Fwai Wai MMPR video -- the persecuted race (e.g. Jew) decides that he knows what all Arabs think about him and decides that he'll elicit some laughs by pretending to be this horribly over-the-top racist Arab. It's the sort of offensive thing that, if I were an Arab, I'd probably say, "Well fuck, son! Looks like you've already made up your mind about me! So I guess I may as well prove you right! :x :P :twisted: " What the fuck incentive do people have to not be racist if other people are spreading lies to the planet that they are all racist? Even if 100% of Arabkind was racist against Jews, there'd be no hope for turning that around so long as movies like Borat existed.

I think I can agree with the Wayan Brothers that racism is a horrible, horrible thing. However, we very much disagree on how to deal with it. They want to shove it under the carpet with a broom labelled "black comedy tour," whereas I'd prefer to confront it head on and throw it into the wastebin labelled "mankind's blunders through the ages."

[Doppleganger]

The movie seems to promote the idea of "racism is funny!" I'm basing this off of the commercials and previews for the movie, as well as on LittleKuriboh's Shadi character in his YGO:TAS movies. I mean, some people have no trouble laughing at lines like "This little Jew boy must be hiding his devil horns underneath that hair," but for me, it's pretty disheartening that people think for even one second that it's okay to take disgusting stereotypes about people (e.g. "All Arabs hate Jews and form conspiracy theories against them left and right") and try to turn it into light-hearted comedy.


I think when people I've respected for biased yet reliable reviews (such as Roger Ebert) say, "this is the funniest movie of the year", I think the whole phrase is a substitute for "I approve of this movie since political correctness is retarded!"

When someone claims to spoof his own religions affiliation/racial group, I'm inclined to take that person with a grain of salt since he/she isn't representative of that group and is in fact no different from an outsider making fun of that group. It's one thing when Yakov Smirnoff makes jokes about living under the Soviet Union, since most of his jokes are intelligently funny; there's both a literal absurdily and an eerie undertonal warning about the way of life he's criticizing.

Granted, I'm against the political correctness movement of today because I'm concerned with it going out of control; if Borat did something like that throughout the film, I'm sure I would have liked the movie.

Yet, he only did that a couple of times; one of the funniest moments in the film was when he was at a rodeo and was making fun of the bigots in the crowd. But contrast that to when he says he shags his sister and hates his gigantic wife (such that he cries/cheers with joy when she dies violently) the movie is outright horrid.

Remember that segment in Green Green where the Baka Trio are naked in that stockroom and end up smothering one another? There's a segment like that in Borat, except there isn't any humour in it at all. It's just nasty, nasty, nasty.


That stated, if you interpret the video another way, it suddenly (can) become much much better: that rather than portraying people from Kazakhstan as backwards for our entertainment, the comedian is actually trying to say, "Fucking Americans, this is how you guys view and treat foreigners. And they're aware of it. So I'm going to satirize that aspect of your society by making a movie in which 'the very portrait of Middle Eastern foreigners' you're always imagining actually comes to life in the form of Borat." (Yes, I know, Kazakhstan is not Middle Eastern; but you get my point.)


I'm not sure if you've seen the movie or not, but that way of thinking (there's an undertone to all of this) is accurate; Borat is trying to promot the idea that America is a more disgusting version fo Kazakhstan, and that he himself, as terrible as he is, is NOTHING in comparison. At least, that's what I was expecting the movie to explain as I watched it; no, instead, it looked like Borat was just some random arsehole picking on people and permanently ruining their lives. Most of the jokes are stock stuff anyway from 1980's comedians, they're just portrayed in a more obtrusive matter.

There are few, if ANY undertonal themes to this show; most of them are immaginary or aren't focused on.


I'd like to think that the comedian was that smart and noble, and is trying to not make fun of Kazakhstanis (and other 3rd world peoples from around the world) but is actually making fun of Americans (their media and the individuals themselves) for believing in stereotypes about foreigners which the ridiculous Borat character represents.


That's what I was expecting the movie to be. But when Borat says, "this is my sister. She is fourth best prostitute in Kazhakstan. I fudge her every night" and people online I've talked to say, "that's one of the funniest lines in the movie", I knew I was in for a bad time. Our neighbor phoned us and gave a warning, "it's really adult" and boy she was right! Heck, there's even segment where Borat is talking to this joke-coach and he pulls off that stupid "sister = prostitute" line, and the coach goes "That's not funny in America".

Now, if the JOKE GUY knew that, why couldn't the insipid fools who praise this movie recognize it?!

[Another Fan]

I really doubt the guy was thinking so much about Arabs Talon.

Eh, a lot of stuff was just general horribleness, but not to anything specific. It is so over the top you can't really say any country is like that. It isn't stereotyping if there isn't even a grain of truth to it or even popularly believed.

[Holy Emperor]

I thought it was funny as hell.

[Sylar]

Talon, you've just basically shown how ignorant some Americans can be, since people from Kazakhstan aren't considered Arabs, and Cohen isn't even trying to portray an Arab. xfd

Also, you can't say a grown man saying "I would very much like to make romance explosion on her chest." isn't funny. xD Me and a group of mates went to see it, and we were laughing the whole way through.

Well, except for the naked hotel fight. Once they get out the room it's hilarious, but when they're in there, it's just sick. O.O

[GrJackass]

ok i just need to prefice this that i only read talon's first post and skipped the rest because its apparent that he has no taste in humor and my eyes just wander when i see that wall of text

as for the movie... i mean it was highly overrated, i think the character of borat was funnier in the HBO series but even that was a hit or miss...

the movie itself was "ok" at best but it had its moments, like when borat was staying at the bed and breakfast owned by that jewish couple and when two cockoroaches crawled into the room he was convinced that they has shapeshifted and the only way to escape death was to throw money at them and run for it.
thats the only real funny part i can remember other than the part with the naked fighting and they run into the elevator to the shocked people as they pretended nothing was happening. but ehhh

as for racism not being funny is utterly rediculous some of todays better known comic's such as dave chapelle and carlos mencia do it all the time "but GR those comics are just fads and carlos mencia is a retarded joke thief" granted but even legends in comedy use it such as RICHARD FUCKING PRYOR and mel brooks in such classis as blazing saddles!
granted once again that some people are hacks and abuse racist comedy, but you cant group the greats with the shit

but from i know of talon he only likes "wholesome" comedy of tv sitcoms, which is all well and good, but please dont think that is the only type of comedy out there

[Talon87]

Talon, you've just basically shown how ignorant some Americans can be, since people from Kazakhstan aren't considered Arabs, and Cohen isn't even trying to portray an Arab. xfd
Stick the xfd up your butt if you're not going to read my entire posts. With love. :D

[Kasumi Violet]

I haven't see it. I really don't mind PC-talk, honestly, let's just call it what it is, which is being polite to non-majority members (racial minorities, ethnic minorities, sexual minorities). A little manners never killed anyone, but whatever, apparently because someone renamed it "PC" it's a bad thing. :roll:
I think when people make fun of their own race, whether it should be considered offensive or not should be dependent on their target audience. People who make fun of their race to their own people are one thing, there it's just obviously just self-depreciating humor, as they likely have similar attitudes toward racism; but when it's someone making fun of their own race to another group, that's bad.
I will definitely not see this movie now, as I have no desire to watch naked men fight, if I did, I'd watch 300 (while they aren't technically nude, they really do show a lot of skin) before Borat.

[GrJackass]

wow, kasumi your avatar really makes me dizzy

the naked fight was indeed nasty, the fat one didnt even need a cencor bar ::shivers::
but the racism in borat was so out there that the whole joke is how stupid borat is, i mean its like family guy's "wish apon a weinstien" and borat is peter

300 is an amazing movie, but then again i think its just one of those guy movies, sin city was beloved by many men and hated by women, so whatever. though partial nudity is the least of the reasons why that is
im not gay but jesus, that leonidis .....

and as for PC being a bad thing, it really is, it cencors free speech and creates a double standard. i mean a comic can't do a retard impersonation without being crucified meanwhile tom hanks does it on screen for three hours and hes praised, they are both concidered art but theres a double standard and its because of this PC bullshit
its even gotten to the point where people want to ban the word nigger. even tough again theres that double standard (comedy central is a prime example) that only if your black your allowed to say it, but thats neither here nor there. people dont seem to understand that everyone has the right to offend other people, there are concequences to it, for example if i went outside and shouted "nigger" chances are i will be swallowing my teeth, but to ban a word because its unpopular speech is a rather scary trend because unpopular speech should be the most protected. theres a reason why its the first amendment.


watching tv, lost my train of though. if anything ill come back to this

[Kasumi Violet]

Gr, then you have no problem with PC as it is now, right? I mean, it's not illegal to say anything offensive, you have all the right in the world to. But it is socially unacceptable, which is something that's not controlled by laws. I've read the most liberal of liberal blogs, and none of them want to actually make it illegal to use non-PC language. So, you guys can have your Borat and your obscene comedians, and the rest of us can ignore and/or condemn such talk. Everyone wins, and everyone can say what they want to.

[GrJackass]

see i wish the world is as nice as you paint it but truth be told its because of these minority PC groups sending thier few emails that make companies create policies that restrict language which is ultimatly the same as banning the word all because 1) people cant "ignore" offensive speech and turn the dial and 2) the wierd statistic that one email equals like 300000 viewers/listeners. and this minority of people ruin entertainment for the majority that may like the show in question.

there are a bunch of examples of this but i think ill use the superbowl commercials as an example with the snikers commercials and the other company that it doesnt come to mind

some of the email complaints are as follows, i shit you not, you can look this up
this is a paraphrasing of course
"i was offended by the homosexual display during your commercial, my two boys were watching television with us, my one son who could have become a great football player may now be gay because of your commercial and i am seriously concidering taking him to a doctor to check for hiv"

of course snickers folded and took the commercial off the air, while the other company stuck with its commercial and nothing happened to them. but you see how the current pc commercial removed a commercial because of its "homosexual" nature or "homophobic" depending on your views, even though it was in jest and meant no harm to anyone

the other company (just so you dont think im making it up) is some car company where a robot loses its job and commits suicide

so yea, even the current state of PC is pretty bad in my opinion

[Kasumi Violet]

So your problem is the free speech of people who wish to express that they're being offended... You wish they'd just shut up. You're not very "free speech" after all...

[GrJackass]

WOAH, do you have the wrong idea, im simply stating that because of the PC culture as it is now is creating this super sensitive culture in which a small minority that expresses their free speech are ruining something that the majority is enjoying just because they cant "ignore" what they've seen as you put it. they have every right to voice thier complaint and im not posting all the blame on the people who complain, its also the fault of people that would remove content just because it offended a few(cause in fact, if the company stood by their content nothing bad would happen to them, that was shown with the season 6? of seinfeld dvd sales being the highest selling season on dvd, and that automotive company commercial), and its the fault of the majority that enjoyed what was removed because it is very unlikely for someone to send an email if they like something and if something has already been removed at that point its too late to bring it back so all they can say is "oh thats gone? that sucks" (not counting family guy and futurama which were brought back because 1) they werent removed due to content 2) they are back because of dvd sales and adult swim)
and its because of this PC culture that creates this knee jerk reaction that cencors content. and they're countless people in the media that have been fired and or canceled because of this
and the things you were able to say on tv and radio no more than a few years ago would now get you fired and great shows such as "all in the family" and "the honeymooners" could NEVER be created in todays world. all because of the whole janet jackson debacle which set the ball rolling to restrict media and further throwing us into political correctness (please note that im not saying it started with jackson it just got horribly worse)


so i dont have a problem with the "free speech of people who wish to express that they're being offended." the whole system of how things work because of political correctness is whats the problem.

[Talon87]

Your right to swing your fist about ends at my face.
Whether you agree with this saying or not probably indicates whether you would ultimately side with "freedom of expression" or "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" if forced to choose between the two. And indeed, they are not mutually inclusive of one another in all situations. As a (very real) example:

Mr. Johns is a sadist who derives pleasure from torturing Mrs. McLaughlin. What he does to torture her may seem innocent, but ask Mrs. McLaughlin and it's anything but.

"He calls me every night. He never fails. He calls at random times between 1am and 5am -- so I can't guess when he's going to do it, I suppose. The caller ID never works; I've called the police but they can't track down any of his calls. But I know it's him.

Mrs. McLaughlin was self-admitted to the state mental hospital last June to seek treatment for symptoms indicative of psychosis and insomnia. Her medical bills have totalled to a staggering $537,270. Yet call Mr. Johns and he will express not one ounce of sympathy or remorse.

"I don't see what the trouble is," Mr. Johns told us during an interview two weeks ago. "I mean, it's a free country, right? Freedom of expression, right? All I want to do is call whoever I feel like calling, whenever I feel like calling them. Sure, you may call it 'harassment,' but I don't see it like that. I don't think it's harassment at all. It's simply me exercising my right to use the phone as I please. There are laws against harassment, but there are no laws that say "You may not call Janet McLaughlin between the hours of 1am and 5pm." There are no laws anywhere in this country that tell people who they may not call or when they may not call. People are free to call who they want, when they want. Can you imagine if people went to jail if they accidentally called the wrong number over and over just because of a faulty memory or a slip of the finger? I swear, this country is going to Hell in a handbasket if we begin taking away people's civil liberties. :evil: "


Ultimately, that's how I see Gr's argument (at the extreme). Rationally, Gr and I probably both agree that PC in excess and complete lack of respect for individual's fragile happinesses are shitty. But from the sounds of it, Gr would rather (if he HAD to choose) live in an America where his right to shatter your heart superceded your right to live out a happy life. I don't buy into that worldview at all. I'd much rather Gr (and me!) be told we don't have the right to call other people fuckheads if I knew that, by calling somebody a fuckhead, I was going to cause them to kill themselves.

=======================================

That stated, dude, before you reply, realize that I agree that extreme PC is a "babying force" which can result in people being too fucking soft. In other words, extreme PC = pampering. And we all know what happens to children who are pampered and spoiled rotten -- they grow up to become fragile, selfish people. So, indeed, sometimes I guess a kid does need to be called "a loser," "a faggot," or "a nerd" if it means that he's going to learn about his strengths and weaknesses and learn to have confidence in himself while also being aware that he cannot (and does not) please everybody.

[GrJackass]

ok, let me address this because you view me of being rather extreme and im not talking about the phone call example either but i suppose it is covered in this post but there is also an issue with context with free speech which i didnt mention before because i assumed its implied. for example, the way i used nigger in a previous post in this thread was not used in neither with anger or hatred in use of an argument which i see no problems with doing so, nor using it within humor. but when used in anger or hatred there in lies the problems and the fine line of your rights, i cant go to a black rights rally and start shouting out "i hate all niggers, they should all die" (just using an example) because it will incite a riot just like shouting fire in a movie theater which should be and is illegal. hell i even understand why the laugh factory (the place where mr richards had his outburst) banned the word nigger from the establishment because he received a lot of bad press and there is a very real danger of having a Molotov cocktail busting through the window in that area


But from the sounds of it, Gr would rather (if he HAD to choose) live in an America where his right to shatter your heart superceded your right to live out a happy life.

again a little extreme, there is something called courtesy so just because i had full freedom of my speech doesnt mean im going to run around verbally abusing people
and there are laws that protect people from what here you are describing as harassment


I'd much rather Gr (and me!) be told we don't have the right to call other people fuckheads if I knew that, by calling somebody a fuckhead, I was going to cause them to kill themselves.


again your using an extreme example with someone committing suicide just because he was insulted, but then again i also have no sympathy for people who commit suicide
but anyway, that mentality is extremely dangerous, to have the government take away our right to free speech just because its unpopular will create such a horrible trend (im sure you were expecting this one to come out earlier "slippery slope"). and although i do not support the ku klux klan (although using the examples i made in this thread one can make a very convincing argument) i do realize their right to parade and spout out their white supremacy and why its important to protect their freedoms even if its unpopular.

[Kasumi Violet]

The problem, in your opinion, seems to be that a lot of people find things offensive, even things that aren't insults to them directly. Nobody can control that but the people themselves. Therefore, because our culture seems defacto PC you can't un-PC it just by bitching about it being PC, you'd have to infringe on someone's right to react as they normally would. Just because you think making fun of minority groups is funny, and apparently an art form, that should triumph over people's right to be offended if they see something they believe is offensive doesn't mean that most people feel that way and in a democracy, majority rules.
I put up with people saying gay people are sinful and can and should change in certain venues. I've heard far too many people suggest that women shouldn't have the right to vote. I put up with the actually anti-homosexual Snickers ad being called something that makes kids gay (which is VERY un-PC, therefore a bad example of PC-ness FYI). And I even put up with people constructing strawmen of what PC and feminism really are (mostly because I like to educate people). Because I understand well that life isn't about what makes me instantly happy, and you don't find happiness just by having every one of your whims catered to. Just as you would do well to understand that your life is not really seriously affected by Comedy Central bleeping the n-word, and that politically correct speech isn't a boogey man, and that it's not an infringement on any of your real rights.

[GrJackass]

i don’t even know how to respond to it, mainly because there is nothing to respond to in respect to the current argument

do you even read what I write anymore or do you just see that I posted , you remembered that I said comedy central in a previous post and attack me out of nowhere, because everything in your paragraph has been addressed. And I find it rather hard to have an actual discussion when I state an argument on everything you have posted, and you without citing any examples present an argument. Ok to be fair you said the snickers commercial has nothing to do with the PC environment we live in? honestly it really is the perfect example and if you cant see that it really tells me that you don’t know what your talking about and your just bringing your personal anger into this discussion.
but then again it says something about my argument when you focus on attacking one point ive made when Ive presented several arguments on everything you have posted and you have yet to retort with anything relevant. PC isn’t infringing on our rights? Really? Anything to support that claim? Please something.

but it really seems like are bringing your bias into this argument and im sorry that you are mocked and such, I know how hard it can be I’ve had several gay friends in my lifetime and I’ve seen what they’ve gone through (but this is in new york so I imagine it cant be nearly as bad as what you’ve gone through) and time and time again have I debated gay rights to marriage and have done so on this very website. (even though gay couple adoption seems to be the new loophole)

but you have to understand people make fun of other people and people have the right to offend people. Do you think that after 300 came out with me being greek enjoy being called a boy toucher? Not at all! (Because perverted justice now may be on to me now, I swear if I see chris hanson at my house with a god damn cookie im coming for you loki /shakes fist) and do you think I like that the term “speaking greek� the language of my native people, the first language I knew, is defiled by meaning that you enjoy anal sex? Of course not! But you have to understand people have the RIGHT to do that, and it really shouldn’t bother you…. Ooooffa I won’t even mention my nickname in Jr High that was derived from my last name …… ok ill give you a clue, my last name ends in IS and has 6 syllables.

now lets hit home now, what if the ku klux klan or the super christian right wing were to somehow get their way and the topic of homosexuality were to become unpopular speech, would you stand for it? Would you keep silent? Fuck no and I wouldn’t expect you to be.

Now, you brought up the womans right topic…

As for fucking woman rights first off you were not alive when women weren’t allowed to vote, the people who “suggested� that women not vote does in no way impede your right to vote, where as blacks in florida absolutely still have issues with voting when police tell them to stay home on election day and the police round up any that are out and about and that is NOT a new problem. and in today’s world there is SUCH a double standard with women that is even displayed on TV, haven’t you noticed in every sitcom the white guy husband is always some dumb douche and the woman is ALWAYS right, she always has her way, even hits the husband and so on, which is completely offensive to me and is racist and sexist to white males. But if the situation were to be reversed on a sitcom there would be such uproar over it the resulting protest shouts would create a tidal wave which will wipe out half of Africa. Same goes with the double standard with African Americans, for example reverend al sharpten is in outrage over the Shaun bell case because he thinks all cops are racist and I quote “all police officers should be shot� even though one of the police were infact black, again racist and offensive but where was the reverends outrage when a black SAVAGE beat a over 100 year old lady? Nowhere, but had the attacker been white and the old lady black there would be a fucking parade of protesters from here to Brooklyn

And if you think women don’t have rights Jesus CHRIST just walk into a divorce court sure all women want to be “independent� and break that glass ceiling (which the gap is quickly disappearing) but when your in that divorce court your all vulnerable and hurt
The laws are so unbalanced and archaic its re- god damn-diculous

Alright, I understand that women have right to half the possessions from when they are together with the guy, that I don’t mind

What gives women the audacity to claim things from before the marriage or future earnings? So you get to live in the house the guy paid for while we dopes that signed a marriage certificate out of love now have to live in a hovel because not only do you get the house but a percentage of future earnings? What reason is for this? What? Your accustomed to your current life style? So was the guy, why don’t you GET A FUCKING JOB AND EARN YOUR LIFESTYLE YOUR ACCUSTOMED TO?

Testimony from every divorced guy:
She had cold eyes, black eyes, like a DOLLS EYES, You hear that high pitched screamin and hollerin… sometime she go away… sometime she don’t go away… my friend was PULLLED into the water…. Bitten in half at the wallet…. ill never get married again…

you cant keep her down with just two alimony checks in her belly!

We’re gonna need a bigger bank account…

Alimony check’s in the water, wife’s in the water, EX wife…. Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish lady…

Damn it I wont have you open up that shark and have that alimony check SPILL ALL OVER THE DOCK!!

This next line wont make sense but if you don’t get it with this one you all can go fuck yourselves
Oh ill find your wife for 3000, but Ill catch it and kill it for 10, for that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing…
Ok one more.
It’s the FOURTH of JU-LIE those beaches WILL stay open!


As for the topic of woman’s rights, I know ill get flamed because its an unpopular opinion according to women, and not many men will post in support, but all I did was present fucking facts and if any guy says they don’t agree with my opinion they are lying cause no one is FOR giving up half their shit and then some. if you want to discuss it further please create a new thread, but I wont read any more on the subject nor will I reply to it because I don’t have time patience or passion to continue the topic.

sigh, how did a movie review result in this? If I may quote a great man “holy shit�


PS: because of this post I no longer have any right to make fun of talon for post size for a good month

[Doppleganger]

We’re gonna need a bigger bank account…


Haha, oh wow, GR that quote has earned a place in my signature someday.

[Kasumi Violet]

GR, I'm sorry, but you seem to be unable to focus or understand what terms mean, and what's relevent to this debate, which is why our debate isn't turning out as you expect.
PC = "Political correctness (often abbreviated to PC) is a term used to describe language or behavior which is intended, or said to be intended, to provide a minimum of offense, particularly to racial, cultural, or other identity groups."
Not defined as "people being overly sensitive to stuff." Nor is it defined as "companies caring about minority groups only" or "Comedy Central censoring sh*t." You misunderstand what PC is and what's its purpose is, instead you see cases where people whose opinion you don't think should matter mattering more than your own.
But fine, I'll quote it all, almost line by line to prove to you that I do read what you type.

i don’t even know how to respond to it, mainly because there is nothing to respond to in respect to the current argument

See above, please.


do you even read what I write anymore or do you just see that I posted , you remembered that I said comedy central in a previous post and attack me out of nowhere, because everything in your paragraph has been addressed.

I believe I was reiterating myself, because your counter points were not valid against what I said. That is why I have ignored them, but apparently you really want it spelled out for you, so here you go.


And I find it rather hard to have an actual discussion when I state an argument on everything you have posted, and you without citing any examples present an argument. Ok to be fair you said the snickers commercial has nothing to do with the PC environment we live in?

The snicker's commercial fiasco, in the case you cited, was about censorship of homosexuality.
You were claiming that men who are afraid a commercial will make their sons gay are part of the PC movement, when they're about the opposite, as PC people try not to offend minorities such as homosexuals.


honestly it really is the perfect example and if you cant see that it really tells me that you don’t know what your talking about and your just bringing your personal anger into this discussion.

No, it is not for the reason specified. It is a wonderful example of self-imposed censorship of controversy, but it has nothing to do with Political Correctness. The ad clearly didn't in any way suggest that homosexuality should be encouraged, nor are homosexuals a majority whose whims are catered to by any stretch of the imagination.


but then again it says something about my argument when you focus on attacking one point ive made when Ive presented several arguments on everything you have posted and you have yet to retort with anything relevant.

I disagree strongly, but my disagreement doesn't add anything to the debate, which is why I don't just come out and say it constantly thus addressing every one of your points until you suggested that I don't read what you say.


PC isn’t infringing on our rights? Really? Anything to support that claim? Please something.

PC is a social convention. It's no more infinging on anyone's right than religion does. If I don't like a church, I don't go to it. If you don't like PC venue, don't patronize places that practice it. NOTHING THAT IS VOLUNTARY CAN INFRINGE ON YOUR RIGHTS, BECAUSE IT IS NOT FORCED THEREFORE YOU MUST CONSENT TO IT. It is logic.
You have a right to bear arms, you have a right to say whatever you want as long as it's not clearly inciteful, you have a right to practice your religious beliefs (or lack there of). You have a right to offend people, you have a right to make people think you're a jerk and want to avoid you. You do not have a right to force people into being a capative audience for you, you do not have the right to make others take you seriously, you do not have the right to use another's property to express ideas the other does not approve of (a good example of this is forums on the internet, technically there's no right to free speech there, as much as idiots go on about their right to free speech).


but it really seems like are bringing your bias into this argument and im sorry that you are mocked and such, I know how hard it can be I’ve had several gay friends in my lifetime and I’ve seen what they’ve gone through (but this is in new york so I imagine it cant be nearly as bad as what you’ve gone through) and time and time again have I debated gay rights to marriage and have done so on this very website. (even though gay couple adoption seems to be the new loophole)

It's fine, I will happily admit that most of the anti-gay stuff I read I do so by my own choice. While there is some stuff that I don't really consent to hearing (my folks are anti-gay) if it really bothered me, I could always move to my own place. I want pity, but I do appreciate your sympathy.


but you have to understand people make fun of other people and people have the right to offend people.

Of course you do, honestly, you could call me a feminazi dyke baby-killer for all I care. And, assuming I was the type to take such talk seriously, I would have the right to be offended by it and to take measures to avoid you. Are you grasping my point yet or do I have to make it again and again?


Do you think that after 300 came out with me being greek enjoy being called a boy toucher? Not at all! (Because perverted justice now may be on to me now, I swear if I see chris hanson at my house with a god damn cookie im coming for you loki /shakes fist) and do you think I like that the term “speaking greek� the language of my native people, the first language I knew, is defiled by meaning that you enjoy anal sex? Of course not! But you have to understand people have the RIGHT to do that, and it really shouldn’t bother you…. Ooooffa I won’t even mention my nickname in Jr High that was derived from my last name …… ok ill give you a clue, my last name ends in IS and has 6 syllables.

Yes, everyone gets teased, and it's not fun for the person being teased. People will always poke fun at each other, while PC is the norm for media, it is not the norm for children who don't know better, or some types of comedians. If you like that type of comedy, you're more likely to find it at a local comedy club where the audience is better known to the comedian, so they know how to make jokes without seriously offending their audience, unlike a national media outlet which wants as many unoffended viewers as possible. I'll be the first to agree that government censorship is evil, but self-censorship by corporations is inevitable.


now lets hit home now, what if the ku klux klan or the super christian right wing were to somehow get their way and the topic of homosexuality were to become unpopular speech, would you stand for it? Would you keep silent? Fuck no and I wouldn’t expect you to be.

I would keep silent at my job, because that would be being professional. I wouldn't keep silent in my personal life. But I would be aware that there would be social (not legal) consequences and I would be willing to accept them.


Now, you brought up the womans right topic…

This is a tangent you're going on. It is not relevent to PC language useage at all.

As for fucking woman rights first off you were not alive when women weren’t allowed to vote, the people who “suggested� that women not vote does in no way impede your right to vote, where as blacks in florida absolutely still have issues with voting when police tell them to stay home on election day and the police round up any that are out and about and that is NOT a new problem. and in today’s world there is SUCH a double standard with women that is even displayed on TV, haven’t you noticed in every sitcom the white guy husband is always some dumb douche and the woman is ALWAYS right, she always has her way, even hits the husband and so on, which is completely offensive to me and is racist and sexist to white males. But if the situation were to be reversed on a sitcom there would be such uproar over it the resulting protest shouts would create a tidal wave which will wipe out half of Africa. Same goes with the double standard with African Americans, for example reverend al sharpten is in outrage over the Shaun bell case because he thinks all cops are racist and I quote “all police officers should be shot� even though one of the police were infact black, again racist and offensive but where was the reverends outrage when a black SAVAGE beat a over 100 year old lady? Nowhere, but had the attacker been white and the old lady black there would be a fucking parade of protesters from here to Brooklyn


I know my right to vote is not in jeparody. I was giving a case where I found the speach in question offensive, but it was not banned at all. I am offended that someone would think that my sex should prohibit me from voting.
As for what's on TV, people are the ones who control the ratings (and thus the profits shows can produce, shows that don't produce profit are canceled), it's what the people want to watch. Personally, I never watch TV because I don't care much for any of it.
The racial issues are another thing entirely which I'm not even going to get into because double standards in law enforcement and hate speach are a huge mess. Personally, I believe advocating violence, no matter by who, on whom should be punishable.


And if you think women don’t have rights Jesus CHRIST just walk into a divorce court sure all women want to be “independent� and break that glass ceiling (which the gap is quickly disappearing) but when your in that divorce court your all vulnerable and hurt
The laws are so unbalanced and archaic its re- god damn-diculousp

I agree that joint custody should be issued in all divorce cases. I don't know any intelligent feminist who believes otherwise. This has nothing to do with PC.


Alright, I understand that women have right to half the possessions from when they are together with the guy, that I don’t mind

What gives women the audacity to claim things from before the marriage or future earnings? So you get to live in the house the guy paid for while we dopes that signed a marriage certificate out of love now have to live in a hovel because not only do you get the house but a percentage of future earnings? What reason is for this? What? Your accustomed to your current life style? So was the guy, why don’t you GET A FUCKING JOB AND EARN YOUR LIFESTYLE YOUR ACCUSTOMED TO?

I believe that if a wife works to pay for her husband's medical school, or makes a similar investment in his career that maybe a percentage of future earnings are reasonable. I believe it should be a two way street, if a husband pays for his wife's education, he should be entitled to a part of her earning which have increased as a result of his investment too.
Many divorce laws do need to be rewritten, they are a throwback from the days where no-fault divorces did not occur, and women didn't have the training to be able to make it on their own decently. Those times have largely passed thankfully. And again, this has nothing to do with PC language.


Testimony from every divorced guy:
She had cold eyes, black eyes, like a DOLLS EYES, You hear that high pitched screamin and hollerin… sometime she go away… sometime she don’t go away… my friend was PULLLED into the water…. Bitten in half at the wallet…. ill never get married again…

you cant keep her down with just two alimony checks in her belly!

We’re gonna need a bigger bank account…

Alimony check’s in the water, wife’s in the water, EX wife…. Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish lady…

Damn it I wont have you open up that shark and have that alimony check SPILL ALL OVER THE DOCK!!

This next line wont make sense but if you don’t get it with this one you all can go fuck yourselves
Oh ill find your wife for 3000, but Ill catch it and kill it for 10, for that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing…
Ok one more.
It’s the FOURTH of JU-LIE those beaches WILL stay open!

1.) Every divorced man does not have the same experience, I know a many divorced men who don't feel that way (and only one who does). Alimony is rarely awarded these days because women can and often do work.
2.) Yet again, what does this have to do with PC?
3.) Why are you acting as if you're the victim of this so-called conspiricy against men? Get a prenup when you get married, and you'll be fine.



As for the topic of woman’s rights, I know ill get flamed because its an unpopular opinion according to women, and not many men will post in support, but all I did was present fucking facts and if any guy says they don’t agree with my opinion they are lying cause no one is FOR giving up half their shit and then some. if you want to discuss it further please create a new thread, but I wont read any more on the subject nor will I reply to it because I don’t have time patience or passion to continue the topic.

No, you presented a bunch of generalizations, a lot of which are quickly becoming outdated. I am not meaning to flame you, but really, that rant had nothing to do with PC language.


sigh, how did a movie review result in this? If I may quote a great man “holy shit�


PS: because of this post I no longer have any right to make fun of talon for post size for a good month

Because people like to go off on tangents.

Look, I don't think poorly of you, I just think that you're misunderstanding what PC is and what it isn't, what rights are and what they aren't.