Code Geass

[Doppleganger]

Just saw episode twenty two...and, jeez, it's a major improvement from the last six or so episodes. Absolutely huge improvement; next week should be quite impressive.

[Talon87]

I just got caught up, as well. Not but 15 minutes ago. And I have to add ... wow was Episode 22 amazing.

SPOILERS (copy and paste into Notepad)
I thought the fact that Lelouch is losing control over his Geass was very interesting. I hope they don't magically solve this crisis -- I'd love to see Lelouch grapple with this sudden disability throughout the remainder of the series.

I thought that the consequence of his lost Geass was also pretty interesting. I felt genuinely sorry for the pitiable Euphemia when she shuddered, "I don't want to kill Japanese :(" ... and then shrieked ... and then succumbed to the Geass. Very creepy, very tragic.

I think it's interesting how the non-Japanese Knights (Diethard, Raksharta) were pretty much convinced that Zero pulled this stunt off in order to solidify his claim to being Japan's savior, whereas the Japanese Knights were at a loss for words as to what could have brought about such genocide and more naively followed Zero into the aftermath thinking he had been betrayed. Definitely suggests that there will be a schism within the Order between the Japanese and the non-Japanese.

I thought it was interesting how the Emperor laughed monstrously and shouted into his Heavens-chamber, "THAT IDIOT HAS FINALLY DONE IT!" By wording it like that, I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he's not only aware Lelouch is Zero, he's not only aware Lelouch has been using his Geass, but he's aware that Lelouch has lost control over it. Verrrrrry interesting. It looks like my previous theory (about the Emperor being a Geass user himself) might be wrong, if all Geass users wind up like Mao and Lelouch in the end. Of course, if Lelouch overcomes his Geass problem by next episode :roll: :roll: :roll: , then I guess the bets are back on as to whether or not the Emperor wields the power of a Geass or not.

I think the Empress (the little girl in Kyoto ... she hasn't yet been confirmed as the Empress, has she?) was pretty cool. Well, let me rephrase: I am glad that we got to see her do anything besides sit behind venetian blinds and look like a Native American girl.

Why can't all episodes of Code Geass be like this one was? This reminds me a lot of the earlier episodes -- jam-packed with dramatic crises that spawn so many questions.

[Doppleganger]

Agreed in full. I think Geass' middle episodes were meant to touch on shounen stereotypes/stock situations like the "Lone Island" incident and the "same mysterious power" character. Twenty two was fudgin' awesome, and it looks like next week will be all the more touching. I've got a vague idea of what is to come, but I'll likely be surprised.

To clarify some things, regarding what Fake Okouchi said (wasn't that helpful this week):



I thought the fact that Lelouch is losing control over his Geass was very interesting. I hope they don't magically solve this crisis -- I'd love to see Lelouch grapple with this sudden disability throughout the remainder of the series.



FO just said, "it will be overcome". He didn't specify what this means or who overcomes it (that is, Lelouch or someone under the influence) but it's possible given Euphemia's early resistance that the latter might be the case.



I think it's interesting how the non-Japanese Knights (Diethard, Raksharta) were pretty much convinced that Zero pulled this stunt off in order to solidify his claim to being Japan's savior, whereas the Japanese Knights were at a loss for words as to what could have brought about such genocide and more naively followed Zero into the aftermath thinking he had been betrayed. Definitely suggests that there will be a schism within the Order between the Japanese and the non-Japanese.



It's just my impression, but I think the soldiers (Toudou, Four Holy Swords, Kallen) were convinced something like this would happen, while Ougi was more optimistic. Villetta has been confusing his convictions; he was the first guy to recommend Zero, but I think not knowing his identity is really giving him some stress. Perhaps he could betray Lelouch? I think it's possible, but I'm not sure who he would go to; Euphemia and Cornelia look like soon-to-be casualties but Schneizel could still be alive.



I thought it was interesting how the Emperor laughed monstrously and shouted into his Heavens-chamber, "THAT IDIOT HAS FINALLY DONE IT!" By wording it like that, I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he's not only aware Lelouch is Zero, he's not only aware Lelouch has been using his Geass, but he's aware that Lelouch has lost control over it. Verrrrrry interesting. It looks like my previous theory (about the Emperor being a Geass user himself) might be wrong, if all Geass users wind up like Mao and Lelouch in the end. Of course, if Lelouch overcomes his Geass problem by next episode, then I guess the bets are back on as to whether or not the Emperor wields the power of a Geass or not.



The Emperor does indeed know the truth, and he was ecstatic that Lelouch took such a move, which makes me think he didn't know Lelouch lost control. A magazine called "moot" that gave accurate CG spoilers said the Emperor wouldn't mind pitting Britannia's might against a "worthy opponent", so he might be rooting for Lelouch when this act in the story finally ends.



I think the Empress (the little girl in Kyoto ... she hasn't yet been confirmed as the Empress, has she?) was pretty cool. Well, let me rephrase: I am glad that we got to see her do anything besides sit behind venetian blinds and look like a Native American girl.


Kaguya is just a Japanese Princess; she's blood-related to Suzaku, but otherwise we know little about here.

[Talon87]

There's no such thing as "just a Japanese princess" in Japanese history, dude. (Edited for relative unimportance compared to next point)

Also, you just gave away a massive spoiler by telling me her name is Kaguya. But I'm not upset, since you probably know nothing about Japanese mythology and literary history. Check out the following (all the same topic, but different words to search by):
- Kaguya-hime
- Princess Kaguya
- Taketori Monogatari
- The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Bamboo_Cutter)

Click that last one, as it seems to be paydirt (if you're not familiar with the story). You should know understand why ...
a) she is a damned important character,
b) how she relates to C.C. (presumably "the people of the Moon" from the original legend being crafted to fit Geass), and
c) why she's always hiding behind bamboo! :lol: (no joke, the original Kaguya hid from the gaze of men, too)

You can tell your source, Talon sent ya. 8)

[Doppleganger]

Also, you just gave away a massive spoiler by telling me her name is Kaguya.


I did? Didn't that old fellow call her that at the end of twenty-two? :|

...

Regarding her name-significance, there's some of that in Geass but I'm not sure how it relates yet. The Gawain + Lancelot device might imply, "Suzaku kills Lelouch" but it might be arbitary like calling Lancelot's special engine the "Yggdrasil Drive". Then again, there was a possibly huge fudging spoiler that I had to edit out of my post, given that if it IS true it would be a LOT more significant than Kaguya's name alone. As in, it could legitimize her name -> action significance.

[Mcsweeney]

I will watch the rest of this eventually to continue my quest for naked Shirley.

[Talon87]

Well, the delay's official now. (http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1199342&postcount=571) After Episode 23 comes out this week, we can all think of Geass as "concluded" until the summer.

OMFGOMFGOMFGOMFGOMFGOMFGOMFGOMFGOMFG

i fucking hate this. have to wait a month for this series to end. jesus. BAH. GOGO LULU

shit.

[Talon87]

Don't want to hear it. :| :oops: You have to wait two months; we've had to wait five. If I'm mistaken, and you've also been following the show since its inception ... then you're really late to the party! ^_^; Where were you three months ago? Post! :) Be merry!

Oh well, I'm not too pissed off about the delay. The show was only just beginning to get good (again, after a long middle haul of horseshit) with episodes 22 and 23. I forget how much I liked 21 and 20, but I think I liked them a fair amount, too. Oh well. Not too excited for 24 and 25, but yeah, I would appreciate some Season 1 closure and to see ...

- what the hell Jeremiah is doing in a tank
- to what extent Lelouch's father knows about Geasses
- who V.V. is, and how many other C.C.'s there are (is there one for every letter of the English alphabet?)

By the way, somebody care to explain this to me?

In episode 23, it is revealed that C.C. has apparently been talking to Marianne [Lelouch's mother] herself, via an unknown method.
Yeah, we've seen C.C. talking to herself quite a bit (one that comes to mind is the episode where they're in the submarine underwater and she gets pissed off at the Black Knights and walks off into the dark corridor muttering to herself and seeming to hold a conversation with a second identity); but since when did Episode 23 confirm that it was Marianne? Is this one fan's energetic speculation that he is (immorally) passing off as fact on Wiki? Or is there some actual proof for this like an interview with Sunrise or even the mention of Marianne's name?

[Doppleganger]

C.C. calls the person she's talking to "Marianne" in twenty three, and the spoilers indicate, with one notable exception (during the "God Island" incident) that C.C. has been speaking to Marianne the whole time. Which, given some of her quirks, explains C.C.'s reactions to what the formerly unknown disembodied entity was saying (most likely teasing her about getting together with Lelouch - mothers :roll:).

[Talon87]

Is there any further-specific evidence to suggest whether:
a) C.C. is communicating with Marianne as a separate existence (e.g. Marianne is in Heaven, Marianne is somewhere else on Earth, etc.), or
b) C.C. is communicating with Marianne as a conjoined existence? (e.g. Marianne's mind and/or soul were transfused into the body of a young girl known as C.C., and so now two consciences occupy the same frame and may even share the same memories and thoughts)

If it's B ... then that picture of Lelouch squeezing C.C.'s tush gives Code Geass a whole other angle. XD

[Doppleganger]

More evidence toward the former. Emperor Wakamoto talks to Clovis in the same manner C.C. does to Marianne, and that "dawn" room we always see him in, while located in the Royal Imperial Palace of Britannia, exists somewhere between dimensions.

...

Also, I have a theory. After seeing GaoGaiGar, which was also by Sunrise and featured Jupiter prominently in the second story arc, I've got to say there's no such thing as "Jupiterians", no one can live on the planet, but it's actually the location of an source of infinite power (or, ZA POWAA). Perhaps that's where the human 'heaven' or at least 'underworld' is located.

[Talon87]

Well, C.C. has been suggested (via the visual cutscenes) to be a member of an alien race, right? So even if you're right about Jupiter being where human souls go to rest, and if the Chamber of Light (or whatever it's called) really is nothing more than a doorway to Jupiter (i.e. tons of swirling yellow gas), we're still going to see Sunrise tell us that life exists on Jupiter.

Unless ........ C.C. and all the others are nothing more than the incarnations of deceased humans. But (imo) that'd be really lame, and also require the population of C.C.'s race to be increasing at an amazing rate and overpopulating the galaxy. Considering how rare C.C.'s people seem to be/are ... I don't like that.

We'll see.

I just want to see more C.C. I'm not usually an ass man, but da~amn is that girl well-drawn!

[Doppleganger]

C.C. is a (confirmed) former human, and one who has lived for several hundred years. Some clever folks figured out that the castle in the second ending of Geass featuring C.C. exists in Finland, so she's believed to be Finnish and immigrated to the "New World" (what would have been America) before it became the centre of Britannian power.

Oh...funnily enough, the Europan Union of Geass has its headquarters not in Brussels, but Moscow. :11

[Talon87]

So they're not aliens. Check. Where was all this confirmed again? :? Remember, 4chan fan speculation does not equal confirmation. -.- I'd like to see the interview you yourself saw/read which confirms that she's human, since they sure as heck didn't say so in Eps 1-23.

woot. only like 8 more days till 24 and 25. yey

[Talon87]

Heh. :)

[Doppleganger]

Fun fact: Sunrise scripted and story-boarded an episode twenty six of Code Geass with an Evangelion-like, "psychological" ending. It was a contingency just in case the regular series wasn't popular enough for a second season.

[Talon87]

Fun fact: Sunrise scripted and story-boarded an episode twenty six of Code Geas with an Evangelion-like, "psychological" ending. It was a contingency just in case the regular series wasn't popular enough for a second season.

Not heh. :x

[Talon87]

Bandai confirms Code Geass license for North America (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-07-21/bandai-goes-geass)

Great. Just great. :| I'm going to freak if Your-Mom or Shinsen Subs quits subbing the series because of this licensure, since I absolutely absolutely DESPISE gg. If I have to download gg subs to finish this show, I will scream.

What worries me even more is that this show is too "Evangelion" for the mass market. People who love Eva already have no reason to shell out the big bucks for purchasing Geass, while people (like me) who absolutely hated Eva have no reason to waste one penny on this series. (Yeah, it's entertaining, but I definitely wouldn't purchase it as it stands today at Episode 23. It'll take a miracle to get me to want to rate this show as a Silver, never mind as a Gold.) I say that I am "worried" not because I care about Geass sales as they pertain to Sunrise but because I care about Geass sales as they pertain to Bandai. If this series flops in the American market, Bandai will lose even more of their marketing clout -- and I'd say they've been pretty anemic of late as it is. No need to weaken them further, not unless you actually want less competition between the studios -- competition which drives down the prices we have to pay.

[Mcsweeney]

big bad birtha: Try installing this font. (http://haeleth.net/dl/sazanami-gothic.rar)

Dopple: Go into Control Panel, Regional and Language Options, Languages tab, and in Supplemental Language Support install files for East Asian languages.

THEN, once you've done that, go back in there and click the "Advanced" tab, and set the "language for non Unicode programs" to Japanese. Restart and try to play it.

Talon: I don't remember the name of of Fee's other ship. All I know is Toy Box, and of course VON BRAUN.

NASA is dropping the ball on ambitious space missions. We need some other country to step up and start going to Mars and Jupiter and shit in my lifetime. I want my affordable (yet sporty) personal spaceship!

[Talon87]

Toy Box 2

[Mcsweeney]

Hey I'm retarded! This isn't even the right thread! Oh well I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about.

Toy Box 2? That makes me think of Bobba Fett and his Slave II.

[Doppleganger]

Code Geass DVD #7 came out second this week in pre-order sales.

[Talon87]

Toy Box 2? That makes me think of Bobba Fett and his Slave II.
My attachment says it all.

[Raptor Jesus]

Everyone loves Geass. At Otakon, there was a panel on it and every other place I went to had someone mention how they were dying to see the ending. Unless the dub is so off-the-wall awful, I doubt there will be low sales in that series.

[Doppleganger]

Everyone loves Geass. At Otakon, there was a panel on it and every other place I went to had someone mention how they were dying to see the ending. Unless the dub is so off-the-wall awful, I doubt there will be low sales in that series.


That makes me a bit glad I didn't say what series beat out Geass for the number one slot - you probably wouldn't have been happy. ^^;

[Raptor Jesus]

I dont really care what show gets #1 or #100. I'm merely stating that a lot of people at Otakon loves CG and his fear of it being a Eva clone (which it isn't even close to from what I heard) is totally unfounded.

[Doppleganger]

Code Geass is moving more toward Gundam SEED Destiny than it is toward Eva - most of the big name anime studios nowadays have had a trickling influence effect from their most popular shows on newer ones, id est everything since FLCL done by Gainax has an FLCL flavour to it.

Frankly, GSD is worse than Eva but I doubt Sunrise would screw with the show when 00's on the horizon.

[Doppleganger]

When do the two episodes air again? Screenshots are starting to appear (leaked?) and they're hillarious!

28th.

[Doppleganger]

Oh wow. What a bitter slap in the face for the Geass fans - these two episodes basically confirmed Sunrise has absolutely no long term goals for the show and is flying off of the seat of its pants. 'tis quite the mess it is. :|

Whatever, at least my expectations weren't as high as the more ardent fans.

[Talon87]

Links to direct download, s'il te plaît? :( Don't want to download BitTorrent on this new computer until I install Norton.

[Mcsweeney]

Well, looks like I made a post in the wrong thread again, so I'll just edit this to fit with the topic. Boy, that CC ass sure is somethin'.

[Doppleganger]

No direct downloads right now, needed to get the episodes through torrent. Doubtful that the RAW will get a direct download, so one will have to wait for hardsubs, which should come out by tomorrow. Most likely YOUR-MOM.

[Talon87]

If you want to be on the lookout for them for me, I'd really appreciate it, but otherwise, don't bother yourself too much. I'll probably try to find it on Youtube between tonight and Monday -- hopefully it'll get up there and I'll see it before Youtube catches on and takes it down.

[Doppleganger]

I'll keep watch, but I'm doing homeworks today (and finishing up the visual novel topic - I lost half of the data last night! =_=) so if something does appear I might be late in reporting it.

Getting the torrents was an arse, though. I thought the more the merrier when it came to leeching and seeding? The various providers have stopped some folks from getting any pieces.

[Talon87]

You're on top of it too early and suffering the pain of not being one of the lucky winners who gets SuperSeeded to. When torrents are less than 2 hours old (good ballpark estimate), the few seeders will superseed (i.e. dedicate all of their bandwidth to) just a few lucky individuals. Like, we're talking five people, man. Very very few. Those five people, the original seeder HOPES, will then stay around long enough to seed to the entire network until his UL/DL ratio is at least 1.0; when that doesn't happen, the entire process is slowed down. Superseeding is very smart for ensuring that the original seeder ...

a) can ensure that his torrent has multiple people with 100% of the file, rather than having a hundred people who collectively have the file five times over but each individually only has pieces of the file. (#1 is better than #2)

b) can sign off quicker (it takes him 30 minutes to superseed five people; it takes him hours to superseed 100 people; and it would take him way, way too long to seed all 10,000 leeches together, esp. since so many of them are assholes who turn off uploading)

[Doppleganger]

YOUR-MOM's hardsubs for 24+25 have come out.

[Talon87]

I saw that while trying to find this (http://www.mininova.org/tor/390017). I went to Tosho looking for it first and thought it wouldn't hurt to try Geass. And there they were. Now to see if Azureus is friendly or not ...

(AND IF YOU REPORT THAT LINK TO HIRAMEKI, I'MMA HAFTO KILL J00. ;P Seriously, dude, at least hold off until BBB and I get it downloaded. ~_~)

[Talon87]

Successfully downloaded the last two episodes of Season 1. :) Probably will watch half tonight and the other half tomorrow, we'll see. Wishing you all the very best of enjoyment -- and hoping for myself that it will be as good as episodes 21, 22, and 23 were. (Please! :cry: No more shitty Geass! Only good Geass from now on ... please? :cry: )

Doppel, this took me around an hour and a half to download, and it's 300 MB. I cringe to think that that means it would take me 15 hours plus to download your visual novel if it had even half the support this torrent has ... and I cringe further when I realize that my torrent only has 8 seeds. @_@ Oh well.

[Doppleganger]

I found episode twenty four to be quite good, really. Episode twenty five, on the other hand, is a whole different matter. According to some rumours, Sunrise took the long break to re-animate it...I do not believe I have to say anymore than that.

Dopple anticipates a "DO NOT WANT" here in the future.

[Doppleganger]

Learned something interesting today.

Britannia's calender is ATB, different from our calendar AD which starts from the birth of Jesus Christ (1 AD). Their calendar starts from 43 AD, the date of the first failed Roman invasion of Britain.

Meaning, their calendar is forty two years behind ours: thus, Geass' 2010 is our 2052, and our 2007 is Geass 1964.

Lelouch was born in 2041 our time.

[Talon87]

New details are out on the upcoming series, including confirmation of character survivals/deaths and new characters:

http://geass.jp/world_03_ex.html?pid=chara_02.html
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Lolo Lamperouge

A boy with gentle looks attending Ashford Academy.
Lelouch's little brother. The relationship between the brothers is extremely good.
Interesting. A, they've invented a sibling for Lulu we've never heard of until now. You could argue it's because he's not that close to Lelouch except for B, they've made it so (and I quote) "the relationship is extremely good between the two brothers." Umm ... :? Now, you could say he has been overseas and stuff, except C, he has the assumed surname Lamperouge (the same name Lelouch and Nunnally adopted, a name which the King of Britannia is supposed to be in the dark about), and D he's managed to find Lelouch and attend Ashford. So even if he has been overseas, it begs the question of how he could find Lelouch's whereabouts and just drop his former existence for that of an in-hiding Lamperouge. It seems more likely that he's been in Japan this entire time and Sunrise is just expecting is to swallow that. :?

Still, don't get me wrong -- I'm excited about this character. :) He looks really [strike:1qzbu378]gay[/strike:1qzbu378] soft and Azumanga Daioh Osaka-ish, but something tells me he's either going to occupy a Nunnally-esque role in this series or he's going to become involved in a contract with another C.C. or V.V.-esque character. It'll be interesting to follow.

http://geass.jp/world_03_ex.html?pid=chara_04.html
I knew C.C. wasn't dead. :P And check out her sexy new outfit!

[Doppleganger]

93% chance "Lolo Lamperouge" is actually a cross-dressing Nunally.

[Doppleganger]

Some information about the nature of the second season! Unfortunately, this information makes me very angry. :x

...

1. C.C. broke her contract with Lelouch to save both of their lives, in the process stripping Lelouch of his Geass and removing the memories of the Geass from anyone who ever had contact with it. Lelouch likewise no longer remembers he is Zero.
2. For saving Cornelia, Suzaku was promoted to number seven of the "Knights of the Round", Charles di Britannia's personal guard. He occupies Marianne vi Britannia's former slot.
3. Toudou, the Shiseiken, Tamaki and Ougi have all been captured. Zero is considered dead.
4. Lelouch now uses white whenever he plays Chess.
5. Kallen has a part-time job as a bunny-girl waitress for a Britannian noble.
6. Zero's revolution was crushed.
7. C.C. will apparently track down Lelouch and form another contract, giving him a far more powerful Geass (don't know why).
8. Nunally has disappeared, and "Rollo/Lolo" is in her place.

...

It should be fairly self-evident why these spoilers upset me. Suffice to say, I'll be watching Geass II but I'm already holding a prejudice against it.

[Talon87]

The only things that upset me about it are:

a) how deus ex machina-ey it is to suggest that C.C. can just, on a whim, absolve the contract and EVERYONE forgets that Lelouch is Zero. Forgetting about the details of the Geass, sure, but suggesting that they forget about the Geass's usage's consequences (such as Zero, or Euphemia, etc.) ... wtf.

b) What about Suzaku and V.V.? One can only assume that they formed a contract, and that Suzaku's memories of the contract would intrinsically relate to his knowledge of "Lelouch the Geass-user who is now Zero." So ... if he were to forget all about Lelouch's Geass ... anyway.

c) How do they explain Euphemia's insanity + death, then?

d) If C.C. wants to absolve the contract, fine; BUT THERE OUGHT TO BE PENALTIES! It's a bit dumb to say, "We're entering a contract. You can't back out, but I can. And if I do, nothing bad happens." Um ... that's not a "contract," then. :| That's a completely one-sided relationship.

I guess that's a lot of complaints. o.o

Anyway, in the end, this news confirms something we already suspected around the "2/3 of the way done"-point for Season 1: Sunrise is playing by ear (so to speak), creating the show as they go along and doesn't have the slightest CLUE where they want to take it.

[Doppleganger]

Pretty much. It irks me to no end that "Geass II" is basically a reset of Geass I, with a few minor differences. Not to mention Lelouch has to climb a mountain now if he wants to take over Japan, which he apparently does in a record amount of time since he's supposed to take on the world in this season. And he does this without Larkshata and Diethard (who are on the run), Toudou, the Shiseiken, and the rather skilled grunts Ougi and Tamaki. He's still got Kallen, but she no longer has Guren Nishiki to aid her. I think C.C. has the ability to bestow different types of Geass onto people, and now that Lelouch is "free" she's going to give him the most powerful one she can.

On the subject of V.V., he seems to have disappeared. Most seem to think he didn't contract with Suzaku, he just told Suzaku the truth of the Geass. Euphie's death is apparently going to be ruled out as a bout of sudden madness.

Also, photos (http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4928/1201320431464zi6.jpg).

[Talon87]

Karen looks so ugly in Row 5 Column 2 of that picture grid you submitted. :x Dammit I hate it when animation quality fluctuates between scenes so badly that even the basic character design is muddled!

Funny thing is, I've already seen the video you gnabbed these pictures from, so I guess I should have picked up on some (though not all) of the things you had mentioned. For example, watching this video hardly suggests that Lulu's got amnesia about his days as Zero, but it certainly does suggest something I had overlooked -- he's switched from playing Black to playing White. What does this mean? :? Is it really an important symbol; or are the fans just reading too deeply into a 50-50 arbitrarily-made decision by Sunrise?

I remember watching this video and thinking it was odd that they should Marianne in a way that seemed to strongly suggest she was still alive (and in her own body, no less). I mean, the whole "C.C. + Marianne" thing I was beginning to buy by the end of S1, but now that we're seeing more and more of her in her own body, I can't help but begin to wonder if Sunrise intends to pull some crazy resurrection move.

I forgot to mention (and it's something you hadn't touched on above), but a lot of the new pictures of Suzaku show him looking like a real arrogant asshole. Like pre-insanity Jeremiah on Arrogance Steroids. :? It's upsetting, really, since I was never very satisfied with how Sunrise attempted to maintain his character as a sympathizable antagonist but I was still holding out hope for a good development or two. Instead, it looks like we'll be jumping into Season 2 with Suzaku's evolution into "the bad guy" fully complete, i.e. Sunrise couldn't fucking find a way to do it properly (something they'd struggled with for the 25 episodes prior) so they just said "Fuck it" and advanced his character to that stage with all the interlude material cut out.

[Doppleganger]

More info.


Li Xingke (CV:Hikaru Midorikawa)
(Chinese guy seen at the end of Geass I)
Bio: As smart as Lelouch but as strong as Suzaku.

Anya (CV:Yuuko Gotou)
Night of Rounds No. 6

Gino (CV:Souitirou Hoshi)
Night of Rounds No.3

Lolo (CV:Takahiro Mizushima) (Romeo&Juliet Romeo)

Knightmare Frame Mordred (Anya's)
Knightmare Frame Tristain (Gino's)

Lancelot apparently upgraded to "Guren-Lancelot".


Notes:

1. The Chinese fellow looks exactly like Lelouch, sans short hair.
2. New Lancelot looks unmistakably like Gurren-Lagann, except in Knightmare Frame form. Hence my nick-name for it.
3. Lolo is male, and appears to be an illegitimate child of Marianne vi Britannia.
4. I guess Nunnally was killed by V.V. :|

[Doppleganger]

No idea this was so huge. (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/991/gudny9.jpg)

[Talon87]

Please resize the image to half its original size.

Otherwise, pretty cool. Nunnally the Geass user. Looks like the other manga are finally making their way in.

[Talon87]

Geass airs on April 6, so the sub (with any luck) will be in our hands in about 2 weeks. Let the countdown begin! ;)

Have you seen this trailer? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jibpVCNG83E) It's not the same as the one(s) previously linked, since I'd never seen it before just now, but maybe you already saw it somewhere else. If not, then there you go!

[Talon87]

I just rewatched the last half of Geass Episode 22 ... good and bad feelings:

GOOD: I'd forgotten just how good this show was. :D

BAD: That's not all I've forgotten. :x It's been so long since I saw Geass that I've forgotten so much, and the lines between my personal speculations and what had been canonically shown are all lost like footprints in a sandstorm.

If you're somebody who really likes Code Geass, I have a request ... do you know where I could read thorough summaries (roughly one-page in length) for Episodes 1-25? If not, I'll settle for brief summaries. I don't want to have to commit 12 hours to rewatching this series before enjoying S2, but I definitely think I'm not going to get much out of S2 at this rate -- I need a refresher on Code Geass's plot, characters, etc. Something more than Wikipedia can provide. (My memory's not that bad. :P)

[Talon87]

Well lookie here ... everyone has been wondering who the swordsman with long black hair shown in Trailer #3 is ... and I just found him :mrgreen: . (see attachment) I'm guessing he's the leader of the Chinese resistance which Schneissel was quelling at the end of Season 1. Methinks he will either be an ally of Zero's, although he could always prove to be a villain in the form of a Britannia-Japan-China trifecta. Who knows.

[Doppleganger]

Here's a classic Geass review that was done last year I just managed to recover. BPK and Talon might be entertained by it!


Directed by Goro Taniguchi, arguably one of the best directorial talents left at studio Sunrise, and written by his Planetes screenwriter Ichiro Okouchi, Code Geass promised to be a true epic series in the making. An interesting alternate history, a lead character that promised to evolve into a ruthless rebel seeking revenge against the father and the country that ruined his and his sisters life and a dash of mecha added into the mix for good measure. So why did it turn into such a complete circus? An absolute mess of jumbled ideas never touched upon in any way that isn't absurd or laughable, a cast of characters who constantly degrade into utter imbeciles and a constantly re-shuffled plot. By the half-way mark of Code Geass, it's as if focus changed from creating an actually riveting series, to essentially seeing how stupid they could take the whole thing and see how many viewers would go along with the ride.

Animation: Solid if unspectacular character wise. The only area the series shines in terms of animation is in the mecha department. While most are adequately animated, there are a handfull dispersed throughout the series that are absolutely fantastic, particulalry in the impressive 11th episode. Otherwise, it's typical Sunrise animation, except with more obvious outsourcing in the middle of the series. The character designs by Clamp and refined by Takahiro Kimura perfectly fit the setting that the creators established. If I had to say one thing that stood out from the character designs, it would be the costume design in the series, which is pretty terrific on the Britannian side.

Story: While Code Geass had an interesting premise that seemingly got off to a good start, it's unfortunate the creators of the show had no idea how to handle the mass of ideas they had, or perhaps they simply didn't care. New plot elements are introduced while at the same time are others are pushed back and delayed, sometimes by many episodes, and sometimes taken out of the show entirely, left to be settled in the 2nd season yet to air. The writing completely flat lines half way through and instead of the gripping and fast paced war/revenge story we had, we then dive headfirst into utterly inane romance drama with a resolution so incredibly bone headed that the series has almost turned into a comedy. As the series moves on, almost as if the romance was a checkbox on a "to do" list of the plot, the series gradually builds up again, making you think it may yet recover, despite the still omnipresent idiocy, but the show sees fit to deliver a "plot twist" so completely over the top and ridiculous, the writers have wrecked absolutely everything that the series had built in it's first half, only to deliver one of the most stupid and pathetic twists in recent years. I can't imagine the writers had any other intention rather than having the audience laugh at the absurdity of it all. The series seems to want to be so many things at the same time. It wants to be a gripping war story, a drama about revenge, it wants to include romance and tragedy, but without foregoing humour. Unfortuntely it was unable to do any of these right.

Character: Just as the plot of the series completely crumbles midway through the series, so do the characters. Completely intolerable and annoying side villains are introduced while other much more interesting ones are left to languish and not reappear until much later. The constantly annoying Suzaku throughout the show is barely even a character, so much his personality and intentions are a joke. Some characters have their personal development completely eradicated from the series, again only to delay it into a second season, while most are barely given even a cursory look, including even supposedly main antagonists. Worst of all is Lelouch, whose descent into a sort of machiavellian evil was purportedly the series main selling point (Episode 1 "the day the devil was born"), is reduced to an utter half wit, commiting imbecilic mistake after another and constantly proving to be all talk and nothing more. A complete let down in every sense.

Sound: Music wise, the show's soundtrack doesn't impress much if you're familiar with Kotaro Nakagawa. His music here is essentially a rehash of mostly every other show he's done and remixed into one soundtrack. The only stand out area are the vocal tracks by Hitomi and Mikio Sakai, but even those are all too familiar if you're aquainted with their previous works. As far as the OP and EDs go, Colors by FLOW is a great accesible song, and Hitomi no Tsubasa by Access is perfectly catchy in that "I wouldn't admit in real life that I like this" way. The rest of the shows selections vary from the uninspired (2nd ED), to mind numbingly awful (ED1 and it's usual Ali Project rehash and the often hated OP2).

Value: A seemingly promising series that eventually degrades into nothing more than fanservice and idiocy. Whatever points the series seemed to want to make in it's first half are utterly invalidated by it's second. The lack of any sort of resolution, for anything in the series is as confusing as it is aggravating. Being made to wait 4 months for a completely lackluster "ending" only to find out we'll have to wait even more for any kind of resolution is ridiculous. Knowing that a second season is in the making is irrelevant, there needs to be some kind of payoff for sitting through 25 episodes of this, and all we are left with is having to wait for another 25 episodes.

Enjoyment: As far as rating this show as an enjoyable new series with promise from a once great director, I'd be hard pressed to give it anymore than a 4. Nevertheless, the shows stupidity and constant excesses at least made it worth watching for a few laughs. Laughing at it of course, not with it. Sunrise seems to be stuck in a rut in terms of how it plans out and executes it's shows. Mai Hime, Mai Otome, and now Code Geass and unfortunately they don't seem likely to want to change that formula. I expected much more from the people behind this show, a complete shame.

[Doppleganger]

The new OP (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2915224).

Geass II gets off to a horrible start.

[Talon87]

I'm so lazy, I still haven't attempted to make a NicoNico Douga video account. For those who can't be bothered to wade through NicoNico's registration pages, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXMfr9vASlA .

As you can see from my comment, I like the animation sequence just fine -- it's the song and only the song that annoys me.

[Mcsweeney]

If the president of China's office is a desk under a gazebo in the middle of the mountain wilderness, that's awesome.

[Talon87]

If the president of China's office is a desk under a gazebo in the middle of the mountain wilderness, that's awesome.
Yes. Yes, it is awesome. 8) Although I have to admit, I read that at first as "the President (of China's office)" and not as "(the President of China)'s office", so basically I read it as "If the president is a desk under a gazebo," and I was like, "Re-read! Re-read! :lol: Must be missing something!" :lol:

The leader of the Chinese resistance is by far my #1 most anticipated character. More than even Lelouch or C.C. I'm really interested to see what his motives are, what his abilities are, etc. So far, he looks like a Chinese Toudo, and that's cool and all except Toudo proved twice that he's not on Lelouch's level because he was able to be captured twice: once during S1 and once between S1 and S2. So I'm hoping to see that the Chinese guy transcends Toudo in martial arts, sword-wielding awesomeness and perhaps is a brilliant tactician like Lelouch, is a Geass user like Lelouch (after all, C.C. was previously in China with Mao, remember!?), etc.

I'm really not that interested in Roro/Lolo. I'm actually identically interested in him now as I was in Nunnally at the start of S1. So pretty much, I'd take Nunnally (who we at least developed some, M-I-L-D attachment to) over him at this point. Dumb Roro/Lolo. I wonder which way the fansubbers will go with his name. I'd prefer Lolo (since they already translated "Lelouch" with L's). Just so long as it's not a mix (like Rolo, which is what I've been seeing a lot of fans calling him recently). :x

[Talon87]

R2 Ep1:

I enjoyed this episode. Not immensely, but I enjoyed it. I encourage you to watch it rather than being spoilered by a 3rd party, but if you're dying to know the answers to some of the following questions, make visible the small text that follows:

Why did Lelouch forget everything? Answer: We don't know yet. We don't know if it was C.C.'s doing, the Emperor's doing, what. All Episode 1 showed was that he forgot, by some mechanism, everything that happened in Season 1. He was aware of Zero's existence and the Black Rebellion's occurrence but he had no memory of having taken part in the affairs of the past year.

Does Lelouch get his memories back? If so, in full? If not, might he get them back? Answer: He gets his memories back in full after C.C. kisses him. Even his personality makes a noticeable shift. Sunrise did a great job of depicting Lelouch as he was one year ago when he first met C.C., maybe coloring him a little nicer and a little more cynical about the Elevens' chances for independence, but pretty much just as he was a year ago. They then continued their great job of transforming him from this kind, soft pretty boy into the ruthless Machiavellian leader of the rebellion we'd seen him become by the end of Episode 25 last season, and they did the transformation in 10 seconds. Long story short, Lelouch is 100% back to where we left him at the end of Episode 25. Just as crazy. Just as in-the-know. Just as hellbent on defeating Britannia. If you are pissed off that they gave him amnesia, you have nothing to fear: he 100% remembers everything. It's like the amnesia never took place.

Who is Rollo? Answer: We don't know, but one thing is clear: Lelouch specifically states after getting his memories back that the past year of his life has been all just a lie. It's possible that Rollo is, as many fans speculated, not in fact Lelouch's brother after all. This theory is supported by the fact that Rollo is the one who drove Lelouch to the casino -- and the Britannian baron, on orders from the Emperor himself, was expecting their arrival. Finally, Rollo looks awfully similar to V.V. Just saying.

The Emperor knew that Lelouch was Zero. So why did he allow Lelouch to re-enter society as amnesiatic Lulu? Answer: [size=4]We don't know yet. lol

About C.C. ... Answer: We don't know the specifics of her survival. Only that she, Karen, and a few of the others escaped imprisonment and kept the Order of the Black Knights going while awaiting Lelouch's return. No idea why they waited a year instead of a week or a couple of months. No idea at all.[/b]

I heard rumors that this episode pays an homage to the first season? Answer: [size=4]xfd, when Lelouch remembers who he is, he gains control over his Season 1 Geass again and the very first order he gives is for everyone he's looking at to die. So the Britannian soldiers and the Baron all shoot themselves.

I have a lot of homework and probably won't be able to watch this any time soon. Do I need to worry about spoilers? Answer: not really. If you highlighted my answers above, chances are you saw just how often the answer was "we don't know." Episode 1's primary focus was on getting Lelouch back into his role as Zero. It said nothing of many of the questions viewers were left with last season.

Hell, I'll list those questions here that went answered and probably won't be answered until Episode 2 or 3:
* How did C.C. survive?
* How did Lelouch and Suzaku survive?
* Where's Nunnally?
* Is Cornelia alive?
And unanswered questions introduced by the sneak peeks and the first episode itself:
* Who or what caused Lelouch's amnesia: the Emperor, C.C., the door, other?
* Why does Villetta seem to have amnesia, too? She was fine up through Episode 25.
* The intro shows Orange-kun walking down the beach wearing some extravagant Britannian dress. Is he still alive!?
* Who is "Rollo" : is he really Lelouch's brother, or is he a spy?
* Why has Shirley not confronted Lelouch about her diary in the last frickin' year!?
* Why are Suzaku's eyes blue now in the anime, but still Green in the ending credits?
* Who are the little pink-haired girl and the blonde-haired young man who are stood beside Suzaku in front of the Emperor?
* Why did the Emperor arrange for Lelouch to draw out C.C.? The Baron believed it was because the Emperor planned on using Lulu as bait to lure C.C. out and to kidnap her, but surely the Emperor would be more intelligent than that! Surely he would realize that putting the two together would mean Lelouch would recover everything! You may say, "That's part of his plan, Talon!" But if so, then why did he make Lelouch / allow Lelouch to forget everything in the first place?
* Why did C.C. and the others not contact Lelouch sooner?

[Doppleganger]

What is the Japanese name for the Chinese Federation? Because I keep hearing it as "Chuuren Poutou" and that makes me think of the mahjong hand. :|

[Talon87]

Chuuka Renpou, ????. "Chuuka" means "Chinese" as an adjective, but as a foreign student of Japanese I've only ever heard it used in one word: ????, Chinese cuisine. "Renpou" I didn't know, but Jim Breen says it means "commonwealth; a federation of states." To give some real-world examples, the former Soviet Union had one name in Japanese of "Sorenpou" ("So" from Soviet plus Renpou); and the United Arab Emirates' name in Japanese uses the term Renpou. Basically, a nation that is a conglomeration of states. (Indeed, many US federal terms contain the word Renpou.)

So one more time:
????
Chuuka Renpou
Chinese Union / Federation / Commonwealth

[gg] chose to translate it as Chinese Union. I'd probably have gone with Federation. All up to personal preference.

[Doppleganger]

Thanks for the clarification.

...

I just finished the episode. I was really excited at first, it was quite entertaining, but when we got to the repeat stuff of the first episode of Geass I it got sort of weird. I was also saddened by the death of the bunny girl in yellow - not only did she have a nice design, she was the girl who was Shirley's friend in the first season. She was Japanese all along and we never knew...and she died so pitifully, I didn't like that at all.

I'll have to echo Talon's thoughts here - enjoyable episode, but not terribly. Already I can feel the pressure of the first season's constrained plot-line beginning to ferment.

[Talon87]

How do you peg a fair-skinned, long-'n'-indigo-haired girl for one of the Ashford Academy students? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just asking (a) how you possibly recognized such a minor character and (b) how you can be certain this isn't just a similar-looking girl. (After all, I could say that she looks like the purple-haired girl Inoue from S1 who died in the Knightmare Frame in Episode 25 and I don't think I'd be too far off!)

Regardless, sharp eyes and a sharp memory, you have!

Constrained plotline the show may have, but it's asked so many questions -- many of them questions we care about because of emotional investment -- that really it could just answer them 1-2 at a time for the next 6 episodes and keep my attention. I'll be screaming lava and spitting blood, though, if they take that long to explain how Lelouch forgot everything. That had damn well better be one of the first things explained when I tune in to Episode 2 next week.

[Talon87]

I watched Eclipse's sub last night, and I have to say ... I'm torn and disappointed. :cry: [gg]'s sub was as good, if not sliiiiightly better (51/49 slightly we're talking here), but in different ways. One of the more prominent (for me) examples was Eclipse's agreement that the best translation for Chuuka Renpou was "Chinese Federation" (vs. [gg]'s "Chinese Union"), but the two most prominent differences of the night were both in [gg]'s favor:

Problem 1: "cheap shot"
When Lelouch defeats the Black King, he is accused in the [gg] translation of "cheating." Karen and Rollo both respond, "It's impossible to cheat in chess." Makes sense. In the Eclipse version, however, he is accused of "pulling a cheap shot." Eclipse's translator either lost his focus during this part of the episode or he's a complete newb -- maybe they have different translators and the one who expertly handled Kanon and Clannad is taking a break? ;_; All I know is, this translator's out of his league if he hears ikasama and thinks the best translation is "cheap shot." That doesn't even fit contextually! A "cheap shot" refers either to a physical cheap shot (e.g. kick to the nuts) or a verbal cheap shot (e.g. "Aw man, why you gotta bring my momma into this!?"). Lelouch isn't being accused of taking "cheap shots" against the Black King (e.g. "You're a big ape! :P"), he's being accused of cheating. And how does Señor Breen weigh in? "??? ?????? (adv,n) (uk) fraud; trickery; counterfeit"

Problem 2: the two Eleven Brothers in the fighting arena
[gg] did a very accurate job of translating both what the announcer in the background was shouting and what Lelouch explained to Rollo. They also (intelligently and insightfully imo! kudos!) broke up the word ?? (lit. "older brother + younger brother" but carries the meaning of "siblings" in 99% of the cases you'll find it used). They actually translated it as older and younger brother and not just as siblings, giving the viewer not one but two opportunities to recognize that the two Elevens fighting each other were family. What did Eclipse do? Perhaps what I would have done: they left most of what the announcer was saying untranslated and they simplified Lelouch's explanation to Rollo. They didn't cut things out, per se: they just translated things at face value.

Conclusion: torn as I am over this and hesitant as I am to admit it, I believe [gg] has a better translator onboard at the moment than Eclipse. This is pretty confusing considering [gg] is a newly-formed group consisting of a bunch of amateurs whereas Eclipse prides itself -- nay, brags about -- the fact that the entire staff consists of some of the biggest names in fansubbing from the past 3 years. All I can say is, Eclipse's translator for Geass may be good, but [gg]'s seems slightly better. Even if he does insist on calling the Chuuka Renpou the Chinese "Union." :P :roll:

Attention (if you care): I will be downloading (and watching) [gg]'s and Eclipse's episodes for the next two episodes (2 and 3). After that point I will weigh in with my final verdict. For now, [gg]'s in the lead, but anything could happen by the time we're through Episode 3.

[Doppleganger]

Holy fudge, it's only been three days since Geass came out. Gosh darn, the wait for the next episode is murder - it felt to me like a week had almost gone by and we're not even halfway there yet!

[Talon87]

This, my friend, is the genius of my plan. 8) [/arrogant SOB who's half full of shit] But seriously, this *is* partly why I decided to put off watching Clannad as long as I did and partly why I collected all 13 episodes of Wolf & Spice by Ayako without watching any past the first half of Episode 2. I recognized the need for some critically-acclaimed series to tide me over during this spring else I would be screwed over by Geass's once-a-week airings just as I was with the delightful Kaiji.

Honestly, I'm getting this nasty gut feeling now that we're not going to get the answers to the main questions we have (like Lelouch's amnesia's cause and what happened after Lelouch and Suzaku fired in the cave in S1 Ep25) until Episode 3, so that's also part of why I'm not too excited or anxious to see Episode 2: because I don't expect it to be that great. If I'm wrong? Great! Let me be wrong! :lol: ^_^

[Doppleganger]

I found a great manga I'm really enjoying right now that could be Midori no Hibi's sucessor if it continues on the path of excellence. But it's definitely not enough given I'm more of an anime buff than manga buff nowadays.

[Talon87]

Episode 2 of R2 = THE BEST EPISODE OF THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE SO FAR

WARNING! Possible spoilers from here on out. Guaranteed spoilers have been made small with font-size 4.

Anyway, you have got to tune in to this episode. Yes, it bests the plot twist with Euphemia ... the situation with Kaminejima ... everything. Best episode of the 27 aired so far. TOTALLY going to rewatch it later tonight.

New Questions Raised by Episode 02:
What is the nature of Rollo's Geass?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
What is the nature of the Emperor's Geass?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Is Rollo one of the twelve members in the Knights of the Round?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Who else besides Suzaku, blondie, and pink-haired girl are in the Order? Anyone familiar?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
When did Lelouch manage to pull off his use of Geass against the ambassador of the Chinese Union -- before R2 or just now in R2 Ep02?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]

Questions that remain unanswered:
How did C.C. survive?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Where's Nunnally?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Is Cornelia alive?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
The intro shows Orange-kun walking down the beach wearing some extravagant Britannian dress. Is he still alive!?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Why has Shirley not confronted Lelouch about her diary in the last frickin' year!?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Why did the Emperor arrange for Lelouch to draw out C.C.? Surely he would realize that putting the two together would mean Lelouch would recover all of his memories! You may say, "That's part of his plan, Talon!" But if so, then why did he make Lelouch forget everything in the first place?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Why did C.C. and the others not contact Lelouch sooner?[/*:m:20rr3a3z]

Questions that likely seem answered but were not definitively answered:
Why does Villetta seem to have amnesia, too? She was fine up through Episode 25.[/*:m:20rr3a3z]

Questions that were answered in Episode 02
How did Lelouch and Suzaku survive?
Answer: Both bullets missed their mark and then Suzaku bested Lelouch in hand-to-hand combat. Apparently the Sakuradite bomb was able to be ripped off Zero's chest without exploding -- dumb plot hole imo :| -- and then Suzaku escorted Zero all the way back to the Emperor's throne. WTH Karen was doing during all of this, who the hell knows. -.-[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Who or what caused Lelouch's amnesia: the Emperor, C.C., the door, other?
Answer: the Emperor, using his Geass[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Who is "Rollo" : is he really Lelouch's brother, or is he a spy?
Answer: He is not Lelouch's brother. He is a skilled KnightMare pilot, a Geass user, and is attempting now to execute Lelouch.[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Why are Suzaku's eyes blue now in the anime, but still Green in the ending credits?
Answer: While we still don't know if Suzaku has a Geass that turns his eyes blue, we do have confirmation all throughout Episode 02 that his natural eyecolor is still green. In fact, that's all he's ever shown with in this episode. Maybe the blue-eyed look was just an unfortunate consequence of the difficulties of animating a scene in a bluely-lighted room.[/*:m:20rr3a3z]
Who are the little pink-haired girl and the blonde-haired young man who are stood beside Suzaku in front of the Emperor?
Answer: They are fellow members of the Knights of the Round who constitute the 12 greatest knights in the Britannian Empire.[/*:m:20rr3a3z]

Discussion:
I think that Lelouch's use of Geass against the Chinese ambassador must have taken place back in Season 1, because only that would explain the perfectness of the Chinese visiting Tokyo on that very day. In fact, I think that this could be a possible answer to the unanswered question above, "Why did C.C. and the others wait so long?" Perhaps C.C. informed the others that Zero had already put this plan into motion and so it would be perfect timing to wait until that day to act. I dunno, seems a bit sketchy.

It was really cool to see Diethard, Lakshata [sp], and even fugly-though-slightly-less-so-now Nina.

It was excellent getting an answer to the most pressing question from last season.

I also liked how it developed the Karen x Zero one-sided relationship more and how Karen raised the serious point of "How can I know now that you've never used Geass on me? How can I know that my feelings towards you aren't because you twisted my brain using Geass?" I had never even thought of that before, and the writers did a great job of bringing it up and then sort-of dealing with it in short succession. It would have been easier if Lelouch had just told her precisely when he did use Geass on her (Ep3 iirc) and what it was, but whatever.

I disliked the new KnightMare frame that you-know-who was piloting. It seemed like it was superior to the Lancelot and the Gurren by a fair margin. Unless Lakshata [sp] and Lloyd have been busy engineering new KnightMares in the meantime, I think both Suzaku and Karen are going to be sort of awkwardly overshadowed by the sickening speed and ferocity of this new KnightMare frame. Whatever. :|

[Doppleganger]

Urabe dying pissed me off, he was my favourite of the Shiseiken and we were promised "not many people are going to die this season". Which apparently translates to, "we're not going to let the people you hate die this season". :x I could foresee Urabe dying because he knew Zero's identity, but still, to see a Gekka outclassed by a mass-produced Lancelot (a skilled pilot like Urabe owned by a kid) annoys me.

That said, I agree this episode is great - 9/10 material - but I hesitate to call it best because of how convoluted it still is. I'm still getting the feeling that "teen drama" is going to take precedence over the revolutionary spirit of the show. Nunally's gone for the time being, which is good news as it means we'll have more Machiavellian Lelouch, but at the same time she's been replaced by eleven bratty kids, oh-please-die-already Suzaku and not this little snot Rollo.

Also, Talon. You've been mentioning that guy in the beginning, who looks like Jeremiah. That's actually not Jeremiah, it's the Knight of One, the oldest and most powerful of all the Knightmare Pilots in Britannia. Apparently Jeremiah "dreamed of being the Knight of One" so I'm guessing that's either his dad or brother.

...

One more thing:

I hope that Cornelia joins Lelouch as another "Queen", now that a Rook like Urabe has died. I could see Cornelia working for Lulu if the Emperor cast her out for her repeated failures or something, and Cornelia's disappearence is suspicious.

[Talon87]

Cornelia would never join Lelouch, even if she could be informed and believe that Lelouch's Geass went out of control when he uttered the fateful words that warped Euphemia's mind. Just my 2¢; watch me be proven wrong. :roll: ^_-

Regarding [strike:2qbo706o]Jeremiah[/strike:2qbo706o] the Knight of One, many thanks. He looks so much like Jeremiah I figured it was him. But how do you know anything about any so-called "Knight of One"? When has he ever been mentioned? Is he someone from one of the three mangas? or was his existence mentioned in a magazine interview?

Next question: is this Knight of One the über amongst the Knights of the Round, or is he separate from them?

Suzaku is so detestable at this point, it's true. :x It was hard to like him ever since we found out in the final Mao episode that he was the one who killed his own father but that he's been living with that and trying to atone for his sin by (wtf) becoming a Britannian -- but now! Now, we have him being a total dick who's either too emotional or too stoic -- he knows no balance! -_-;

I don't see why you dislike Rollo. You know next to nothing about him, as do I. Yeah, Urabe's gone and I can understand your being upset about that, but ... for all we know, Rollo could be:
a) the Emperor's son by Marianne's sister (if she had one)
b) Marianne's other son -- one Lelouch and Nunnally never knew about

And as such, he could be both a genetic "blood rival" for Lelouch as well as an intellectual match for the boy. In other words, Rollo could prove to be what Suzaku was originally meant to be -- serious competition for our hero.

[Doppleganger]

Cornelia would never join Lelouch, even if she could be informed and believe that Lelouch's Geass went out of control when he uttered the fateful words that warped Euphemia's mind. Just my 2¢; watch me be proven wrong. :roll: ^_-


My reasons for thinking Cornelia isn't on the Emperor's good side is something NT magazine said, which was "Cornelia is currently in hiding". This might be a translation flub, but if not, it begs the question of WHY? If you recall in the first season, Clovis was afraid he would lose his prince status is he let C.C. get away; Cornelia has screwed up way more times than Clovis has, so I'd imagine the Emperor to, by now at least, see her merely as "lucky" and not "fit" to succeed him. The fact that Governor Calares' soldiers question Guilford's authority - going, "Princess? Ah, he must be talking about Princess Cornelia" tells me Guilford and Cornelia's name don't command the same respect they once did.

Euphemia wouldn't want revenge on Lelouch for killing her, if Euphemia talks to Cornelia somehow like Marianne does to C.C., we could see Cornelia join up with him - it would be somewhat poetic IMO for season one's antagonist to join up with him, and I can't see the Shiseiken + Toudou + Kallen being a match for the whole Round Table plus Rollo, we're talking about twelve White Queens versus a Queen and (now) four Rooks. Gawain was probably recovered by the Britannians too, since every Knight of Round KF has a Hadron Cannon mounted on it somewhere.


Regarding [strike:2144v6f9]Jeremiah[/strike:2144v6f9] the Knight of One, many thanks. He looks so much like Jeremiah I figured it was him. But how do you know anything about any so-called "Knight of One"? When has he ever been mentioned? Is he someone from one of the three mangas? or was his existence mentioned in a magazine interview?

Next question: is this Knight of One the über amongst the Knights of the Round, or is he separate from them?


There is a bit of info on him, given from 2channel spoilers. Consider the Knight of One equivalent to the Witch-King of Angmar; he's not only the most powerful of his order and is distinguished from them, he has special privileges associated with him. The privilege of interest is that the Knight of One is allowed to assume the duties of a regional governor for any Britannian Area. This is what Suzaku means by "reforming Britannia from the inside" - if he becomes the Knight of One, he'll take over Area 11 and reform it. Becoming the Knight of One is the only way for a non-noble, non-royal to possibly become head of an Area, and is the only way Suzaku can "overcome his blood" so to say.


Suzaku is so detestable at this point, it's true. :x It was hard to like him ever since we found out in the final Mao episode that he was the one who killed his own father but that he's been living with that and trying to atone for his sin by (wtf) becoming a Britannian -- but now! Now, we have him being a total dick who's either too emotional or too stoic -- he knows no balance! -_-;


When it was revealed Charles Di Britannia doesn't have any kind of magic ward to protect him from Lelouch's Geass, I was enraged that Suzaku didn't capitalize on that opportune. Lelouch was within COMMAND distance of the Emperor and he wouldn't give him a single edge!


I don't see why you dislike Rollo. You know next to nothing about him, as do I. Yeah, Urabe's gone and I can understand your being upset about that, but ... for all we know, Rollo could be:
a) the Emperor's son by Marianne's sister (if she had one)
b) Marianne's other son -- one Lelouch and Nunnally never knew about


It annoys me that only three of the twelve Knight of Rounds are adults, with everyone else as immature adolescents with "incredible piloting skills" as NewType puts it. It's a Sunrise trademark to do something like that and totally disgusts me, it's so unbelievable and contrived. Watching Rollo stomp all over everyone with his Knightmare Frame and having a Geass on top of it just screams "unfair!" to me. Life's not fair but this is anime, Sunrise can do with less hax in their shows. -_-

As said in the other topic, I know Rollo's secret, sort of. This was revealed in the video game, my lib tacked onto the end - Rollo's "teleportation" isn't a feature of his KF, it's of his Geass. IMO, his Geass has a power similar to Obi-Wan Kenobi's Jedi mind trick, creating the illusion that he's going fast but actually hypnotising people into ignoring his movements.


And as such, he could be both a genetic "blood rival" for Lelouch as well as an intellectual match for the boy. In other words, Rollo could prove to be what Suzaku was originally meant to be -- serious competition for our hero.

Ling Xi-ke was supposed to be this match, as smart as Lelouch and as strong as Suzaku. Tack on Schneizel and Suzaku and we've got too many rivals running about - Napoleon Bonaparte's and Arthur Wellesley's aren't a dime a dozen.

[Talon87]

Schneizel never struck me as an adequate rival for Lelouch. And the Chinese swordsman doesn't strike me as a brilliant tactician -- he seems like he's "all brawns" like Suzaku. Basically the Chinese Union's Suzaku. With the Chinese Union's Lelouch back at home, since the swordsman even refers to him in Episode 2 saying how taking in Zero was not in his (the CU's leader's) orders.

To be honest, though, if the Emperor's Geass is the same as Lelouch's -- and he merely used the same type of command on Lelouch that Lelouch once used on Shirley -- that would strike me as cool but incredibly plot-holey because now the Emperor's used up his one and only bullet against Lelouch. On the other hand, if the Emperor has infinite bullets, his Geass, even if only a memory-modification Geass, is way too fucking powerful. I was thinking about it earlier today, and ... if you can modify someone's memories, that boils down to bending them to your will. How so? Because you can give them false enough memories to basically change who they are. You can get someone to kill themselves by implanting false memories in their head that would make almost anyone suicidal. You can get them to spill the beans to you by implanting false memories in their head that they're actually a mole working on your behalf and they're zealously loyal to you. So on and so forth. So I'll say it again:
- I'm all for the Emperor's Geass being identical to Lelouch's and not being "I modify memories", but
- it doesn't really matter because modifying memories is ~the same as giving people orders (since S1 showed that you can give memory-changing orders) and
- either they fucked up by having the Emperor use his one-and-only Geass on Lelouch or they fucked up by creating a character with infinite Geass uses that include the power to modify memories.

[Doppleganger]

I don't think the Emperor really felt Lelouch was that much of a threat, else he would have killed him for slaying two of his siblings and causing so much of a ruckus. He was willing to risk Zero arising again just to bait C.C., he probably believes he's in full control of all the show's chess pieces.

As far as his Geass goes, one in each eye tells me it's probably going to have less power than Lelouch's, but has potential for unlimited uses. If it's anything involving the alteration of action or memory though I think it's a single action Geass and is thus weaker than Lulu's. Rollo's seems to be as powerful as Mao's, unlimited use but limited application.

[Talon87]

Five minutes into Eclipse's sub and there were already several mistakes (yes :cry: ) and many disagreeable Jpns-to-Engl decisions. Unless there's a real turnaround next week, I think this battle's already over: [gg]'s translator > Eclipse's. Never thought I'd be saying those words. Now I'm REALLY AFRAID of what will happen if [gg] decides to pull a fast one and quit releasing VLC-compatible files halfway through the series like they did last time. (So far 1 and 2 work just fine on VLC.)

I'll let you know what I find tomorrow (or whenever) if and when I finish watching Eclipse's version of Ep2.

[Doppleganger]

I wasn't too impressed with Eclipse either, they changed some things and put as their comment, "Eclipse is awesome!" as if to address the bemoaning from last episode, but I only really went with Eclipse's sub because [gg]'s .mkv wouldn't work in either of my players. A real turnaround from last time, since instead of being incompatible with VLC, now [gg]'s work won't run with CCCP. >_>

[Doppleganger]

OH HEY HA HA HA, someone just pointed out to be the Chinese Eunuch was Geass'd! That's why they were so cooperative with Lelouch, LOL! :lol:

...

Also, Talon. Check these.

[Talon87]

I've mentiond his being Geass'd multiple times in this thread. -.- :P

As for the YGO crossovers, suhweet! :D I love good crossovers!

[Doppleganger]

Talon, I'm comparing the [gg] Geass II 02 to Eclipse's, and I've got to admit, you're right on the mark on [gg] being the superior sub. I decided to check because one line in particular made absolutely no sense in Eclipse's - "The concept of 'cutting off' is not enough to beat Britannia". In [gg]'s sub, it's "Reducing Britannia's numbers isn't enough to defeat it". MUCH CLEARER.

Now if only they released a proper .avi. :|

[Talon87]

I don't know what it is, either, because my understanding is that Eclipse is (supposed to) have one of the best translators in the fansubbing scene right now. To me, such a claim equates to saying "we have a translator onboard who speaks both Japanese and English natively." The other confounding variable is Eclipse's truly excellent sub of Kanon (which was better than a.f.k.'s) and (I'm watching it right now!) excellent sub of Clannad. I just don't get it.

Talon's favorite theory: I think that we get into a mentality of "oh, such-and-such group has and forever will have this wonderful translator" when the truth of the matter is that great translators come and go. Some of them get tired of translating; others (like me, although I was never great nor claim to be) become too preoccupied with other things in real life and can't keep doing it; and some of them may part ways with one group in order to join -- or start -- another. So this is my theory explained with examples:
a.f.k. - made a better Suzumiya Haruhi translation than Bandai itself (I can confirm this first-hand), but made a non-competitive sub of Kanon. Theory: Haruhi subber left.[/*:m:2w6emtoo]
ShS-Eclipse - made a fantastic sub of Kanon and Clannad. Theory: ShS lent the subber, not Eclipse. (See next entry for why.)[/*:m:2w6emtoo]
Eclipse (all by itself) - made a horrible sub of Code Geass R2 (judging from the last two episodes, especially the 2nd one). Theory: Eclipse never had a great subber to begin with -- they were borrowing Shinsen's.[/*:m:2w6emtoo]
[gg] - made a pretty good but sometimes inaccurate sub of Code Geass season #1, and went on to make an excellent (and highly accurate) sub of Code Geass season #2, although they admit that they're getting help from the closed captions. Theory: good translator (even great, given his excellent knack for picking the best English phrases and figures of speech to match up with the original Japanese ones), probably the same they had for Geass S1 but he's gotten better in the last year. Good for him.[/*:m:2w6emtoo]

Here's the really damning thing, and the one that convinces me that Eclipse cannot possibly have a native translator onboard for this project: Eclipse also has access to those same Japanese closed captions. You can read all about it on Eclipse's website (iirc in the FAQ section). They explain how they and [gg] have decided to each sub Geass in order to blow away Shinsen and Menclave. Or something. Won't really work on Shinsen (since they're not subbing Geass R2 anyway) but I guess it could work to hurt Menclave's e-feelings. *shrug* Anyway, [gg] has a contact in Japan (sounds shady!) who has access to the closed captions before the episode even goes on air. This is why they are able to sub the series so quickly -- assisted by the closed captions (which apparently are highly superior to the kind our deaf friends put up with in America!) -- and so accurately. Yet ... Eclipse is still making errors. ERRORS WHICH SEEM ODDLY LITERAL.

Talon's Theory Specific to Eclipse as of April 2008: I think that their current subber knows about as much Japanese as I do (which is not as much as he needs to for Eclipse to be making bold claims like "We're the best :P"), and that the errors he is making stem from being too damn literal -- too literal because he's relying heavily on a dictionary for x number of words he is unfamiliar with, where x is a sufficiently large integer.
This is why they went with Chinese Federation -- because I, too, thought it sounded better than "Chinese Union" and Union and Federation are the two options Jim Breen's WWWJDIC provides.[/*:m:2w6emtoo]
This is why they're translating figures of speech so awkwardly -- because they're translating them word for word rather than as figures of speech. (Example: it would be like a Russian guy translating a show of ours into Russian where one character says "I prefer my furniture to be made out of redwood" and the guy writes "red wood"; or like "Take a left on the turnpike" being translated as "take a left on the rotate-spear".)[/*:m:2w6emtoo]

The final icing on the cake that [gg]'s subber is better? He bothers to do his homework. Even with his firm command of Japanese, even with his (illegal? :lol: ) access ahead of time to the closed captions, he still checks in with Goro Taniguchi and Sunrise's official English names for various characters and places. As shown on [gg]'s website, this is why they translated Chuuka Renpou as "Chinese Union" -- because Goro himself decided that that would be the English equivalent. Not because [gg]'s translator thought it sounded better. (lol, he probably felt the same way Eclipse's translator and I felt! :lol: )

[Doppleganger]

Talon's favorite theory: I think that we get into a mentality of "oh, such-and-such group has and forever will have this wonderful translator" when the truth of the matter is that great translators come and go. Some of them get tired of translating; others (like me, although I was never great nor claim to be) become too preoccupied with other things in real life and can't keep doing it; and some of them may part ways with one group in order to join -- or start -- another. So this is my theory explained with examples:
a.f.k. - made a better Suzumiya Haruhi translation than Bandai itself (I can confirm this first-hand), but made a non-competitive sub of Kanon. Theory: Haruhi subber left.[/*:m:1xwjljvg]
ShS-Eclipse - made a fantastic sub of Kanon and Clannad. Theory: ShS lent the subber, not Eclipse. (See next entry for why.)[/*:m:1xwjljvg]
Eclipse (all by itself) - made a horrible sub of Code Geass R2 (judging from the last two episodes, especially the 2nd one). Theory: Eclipse never had a great subber to begin with -- they were borrowing Shinsen's.[/*:m:1xwjljvg]
[gg] - made a pretty good but sometimes inaccurate sub of Code Geass season #1, and went on to make an excellent (and highly accurate) sub of Code Geass season #2, although they admit that they're getting help from the closed captions. Theory: good translator (even great, given his excellent knack for picking the best English phrases and figures of speech to match up with the original Japanese ones), probably the same they had for Geass S1 but he's gotten better in the last year. Good for him.[/*:m:1xwjljvg]


I suspect you're right on this - Eclipse's translator for Geass appears to be the same one who did FSN; excellent with speed, but not without errors ("People die if they are killed!"). The other translators like for Hayate and Shana are more accurate but take a lot more time, and given how much of a competitive advantage [gg] has right now Eclipse appears willing to make the trade-off for quickness over quality. Yet they still come out after [gg], though their encodes are (in my view) far better.

There's three subbers on Eclipse's staff I know of (Clannad translator, Shana then Hayate), plus the speed supper makes four. Shinsen appears to have two, [gg]...who knows. That group was always quite mysterious.


Here's the really damning thing, and the one that convinces me that Eclipse cannot possibly have a native translator onboard for this project: Eclipse also has access to those same Japanese closed captions. You can read all about it on Eclipse's website (iirc in the FAQ section). They explain how they and [gg] have decided to each sub Geass in order to blow away Shinsen and Menclave. Or something. Won't really work on Shinsen (since they're not subbing Geass R2 anyway) but I guess it could work to hurt Menclave's e-feelings. *shrug* Anyway, [gg] has a contact in Japan (sounds shady!) who has access to the closed captions before the episode even goes on air. This is why they are able to sub the series so quickly -- assisted by the closed captions (which apparently are highly superior to the kind our deaf friends put up with in America!) -- and so accurately. Yet ... Eclipse is still making errors. ERRORS WHICH SEEM ODDLY LITERAL.


Menclave's not on the project either IIRC, most subbers backed off Geass II when they heard a) it was licensed or b) Eclipse was subbing it. Like with Triad, most subbers don't try to compete directly with an Eclipse property unless hubris gets the better of them (Clannad) or the rival is well established enough to go head to head and take a share of leechers (Shinsen).


The final icing on the cake that [gg]'s subber is better? He bothers to do his homework. Even with his firm command of Japanese, even with his (illegal? :lol: ) access ahead of time to the closed captions, he still checks in with Goro Taniguchi and Sunrise's official English names for various characters and places. As shown on [gg]'s website, this is why they translated Chuuka Renpou as "Chinese Union" -- because Goro himself decided that that would be the English equivalent. Not because [gg]'s translator thought it sounded better. (lol, he probably felt the same way Eclipse's translator and I felt! :lol: )

I wish he'd go with what sounds better than with what's "official", almost everything done "officially" by Sunrise for EL distro has struck me as bone-headed. I mean, who did Goro think he was fooling saying he "hand picked" the Geass English cast from the finest voice actors in America? The selections look suspiciously similar to the B-actor cast of Eureka Seven, who were picked because they were local talent and were exceedingly cheap.

[Talon87]

Heh heh heh @ Doppel's last paragraph. ^_^ Wit was definitely with you today.

Back to Paragraph #2: for the record, I'm not the one saying that they're doing this to piss off Menclave -- they (Eclipse) say it themselves. Only I was wrong, it's not on their official website: I found it by dumbshit luck Googling at medical school one day, and backtracking my steps I found it again. Here you go:
OK, so let me explain how all this came to be. A story of fansub drama (ok not really, but if you're not interested in fansub group internal affairs you might want to skip the rest of this post), exclusive to ADTRW.

To get to the start of this, rewind a few months. Geass R2 had just been announced for spring, gg was for all intents and purposes dead and koda (former leader and main driving force in gg, burned out and went gently caress fansubbing sometime after geass S1) was off doing god knows what. Since I'm a fan of geass and wanted to work on it, I suggested to the rest of Eclipse that we should pick it up since the only takers so far seemed to be Shinsen and Menclave. Since one of our two translators is (with his own words) a "Lelouch fanboy", it was met with approval and it was preliminarily decided that we were going to pick it up.

Fast forward a few weeks. Suddenly koda pops out of hiding and asks me if I want to encode Geass S1 DVD-rips, since looking back at the gg TV release it seemed pretty horrible both video and translation-wise. I naturally say yes. Forward another couple of weeks. We release a couple of episodes (as Dominos, lol pizza hut, get it?) and suddenly another old gg staff member (House, encoder) that had gone into hiding months earlier pops out of the woodwork with access to a dedicated raw capping server in Japan, and thereby also closed captions. Suddenly koda realizes that she has an almost complete fansub team with access to a really good (and FAST) raw as well as a translation "cheat sheet", and in her twisted mind the idea to speedsub Geass R2 for purposes of drama, oversubbing and general hilarity is born (babelfishing the captions for maximum possible hilarity is discussed and considered, but ultimately discarded).

Since these discussions are going on in the Dominos IRC channel (de facto new gg staff room) I'm very much aware of the plans to do R2 as gg, so at this point (around 3 weeks ago) I ask koda something along the lines of "hey, if you're doing this maybe we (Eclipse) should drop our plans to do it and go sub something else instead", to which her answer is basically "pffffft, we're doing this for oversubbing on purpose, drama and to piss off Menclave, Eclipse should totally do it too!". I go pretty much "lol ok" and since both I and the rest of Eclipse really wanted to do Geass, we keep our plans for doing it.

Since House already started capping Shana II and Hayate no Gotoku for Eclipse, he readily agrees to provide Geass R2 caps to us as well, with koda's approval. Menclave also asks but is rejected in a twist of fansub drama, but later gets it anyway. The job of encoding R2 for gg is given to House as well, which results in me not actually working on R2 for gg at all, except as consultant and project channel smacktalker.

All of this comes together to put me in a rather amusing situation where I get double credit for a single workload since a lot of people seem to assume that I'm encoding it for both gg and Eclipse; this assumption is strengthened by that text on ggkthx.org and the fact that I have insider information from both projects.

TL;DR: gg and Eclipse, Best Friends Forever. Also some of us doesn't like Menclave and Shinsen, lol fansub drama. TheFluff has fun being considered Important on the Internet (lol) for the wrong reasons.

Oh and if you're wondering which version to download, I don't know! Pick whichever you prefer or whichever comes out faster, they're both good. Eclipse has better sign typesetting since we went with hardsubbing and Adobe AfterEffects, but translation and encoding-wise both should of pretty much equal quality since we both have the closed captions and the same raw. Only real difference is script editing.

[Doppleganger]

Looking at how things actually worked out, looks like Eclipse and [gg]'s "plan" to cause drama with Shinsen and Menclave backfired. :lol:

[Doppleganger]

Hey Talon, did you hear about the Geass II 03 episode leak? We got the final six minutes of show and some juicy spoilers came out of it. Additionally, Sunrise is thinking they want to remake the episode and delay the rest of the series until they've redone the whole sequence. One staff member was arrested in this incident.

Methinks this is probably more of Sunrise's viral marketing buzz - why go to the extent of punishing the viewers badly for this guy's leak? Given Sunrise's ruthless and experimental nature with off-beat marketing, this strikes me as a huge publicity stunt, not because of the act but the response.

Biggest of the spoilers:

Rollo's Geass isn't a teleport or a time dilation, as I figured, but rather a time stop. MUDA DA!

[Talon87]

ENTIRE POST CONTAINS EPISODE 3 SPOILERS IN RESPONSE TO DOPPELGANGER

This is the first of your spoilers I've read, and I've got to say ... if he has infinite uses of it and his range is at least as large as the room he and Lelouch were in when they were in their respective KnightMare frames, then I've got to say BUHROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKEN. :| It wouldn't have been if it required direct eye/ear/touch/etc. contact with the person(s) affected, but since it appears he can use it with no strings attached except possibly range (and even the range is pretty large), it's just ridiculously overpowered.

Come to think of it ... if he can stop time, why not just stop time when Lelouch and Karen made their escape? Aha! (I hope) : limitation identified! Maybe he doesn't have infinite uses over a finite window of time; instead, maybe (a) he has a finite number of uses, period, or (b) he has an infinite number of uses but a finite number of uses per finite window of time.

This is starting to make sense though. This is why Rollo and Lelouch get into an equestrian competition next episode. Rollo's probably going to kick Lulu's ass even though Lelouch is a master horserider and strategist, and Lelouch is going to wonder why -- and so is the unspoilered audience up until they see the explanation you shared here.

[Doppleganger]

Personally, I don't subscribe to the whole "toke wo tomare!" idea, I still think Rollo's Geass is a very powerful hypnosis that causes people to selectively ignore a couple seconds worth of time while Rollo gets behind them. All Geass abilities thus far have been "mind manipulation" in some sense, either rewriting memories, giving commands or reading thoughts. A physical-world altering one like that just screams SHARINGAN to me.

Here's a brief run-down of the last six minutes:

Lelouch is on a date with Shirley but is getting tailed by Britannians, who he manages to evade. He and Shirley get separated. Rollo appears and Lelouch says they're not related, which kicks Rollo into action. He reappears next to Lulu, holding Lulu's gun to his forehead. Next, we see Li Xingke attacking some Black Knights.

Thoughts:

1. Li Xingke fighting the Black Knights tells me he's probably unraveled the mystery behind Lelouch's Geass. The spoilers mentioned he's unsatisfied with the Chinese Federation bureaucracy, having a low birth and needing to bring himself up; I think he wants to start a rebellion there, and looks to Zero as a model but not without his own reservations, judging from how he gave a mixed impression when Zero reappeared.

2. I hate Rollo. His actor is one of my favourites but, like Suzaku's (another favourite who voiced the ever-so-Gar Fakir from Princess Tutu and Kamiyama from Cromartie) the actors are good enough to give "I fudging hate these guys" voices. It's not personal guys! ;_;

3. I brought this up to much fanfare on Yotsuba, but...why is Lulu continuing with the school drama? >_> He's a senior right now, and since the story takes place "one year" after Geass I, when the school year was about to end (recall the giant pizza festival) this nonsense should be short lived. Yet everything seems to suggest it'll have as much a role as before.

4. I'm growing scared of Sunrise saying the "character drama" is going to take a focus in the second season and that "we only had a little time to touch on it in the first". :x How much farther can they go?

[Doppleganger]

Talon, here's the leaked video (http://www.megavideo.com/?v=41RH32KB).

[Talon87]

Watched it. Needless to say, I'm impressed and at the same time worried by Rollo's Geass. It just seems to be way too powerful. And since Lelouch has fallen victim to it twice now, this proves that Rollo's Geass is capable of multiple uses on the same target.

As for the rest of your spoiler discussion ... it's pure speculation at this point, and I don't feel like size-four'ing my text just to respond to it. ^^; Maybe later today, but probably not until we actually get our hands on the full, subbed episode.

[Doppleganger]

I'm calling it right now. ROLLO = GEASSED NUNALLY. The Emperor rewrote her memories so she can spy on Lelouch!

[Talon87]

Well, now that we've seen Episode 4 I think we can rule out Rolo being Geass'ed Nunnally. Unless his memories of previous assassination missions is also part of the Emperor's doing. Man, though, the Emperor would have to be seriously fucked up to transgender his own daughter for the sake of toying with his own son.

I enjoyed 3 and 4, but I guess I feel that 4 introduced what I would label as the first inescapable deus ex machina of Season 2.

What: Rolo joining Lelouch
Why: Because it's one of the following two situations, and either one will prove to be pretty deus ex machinaey

Scenario 1: Rolo genuinely snapped and genuinely joined Lelouch. This is distasteful deus ex machina because Rolo was so ready to kill Lelouch at the end of Episode 1 -- Episode 1! -- and so it doesn't make sense that he would have been so easily swayed from his mission at the start of Episode 4. Lelouch's whole schpiel about delivering C.C. was so obviously a desperate plea for sparing his life with zero sincerity to deliver on the promise that it's inconceivable Rolo actually fell for it. Then there's the whole bit about Lelouch telling Rolo (once at the start and once at the end) "I wouldn't lie to you, Rolo. Because you're my brother. ^-^" In the end, he tacks on, "Even though you're not really my brother, I'll never forget the last year we spent together as brothers. I love you like my own brother, Rolo." For Rolo to cave in to that makes him the most fragile-minded character ever. It's just too effing convenient and screams "Sunrise couldn't think of a better way to introduce viewers to Rolo as an antagonist followed by Lelouch recruiting Rolo to the Order's side."

Scenario 2: Read all of the above but then say, "... except Rolo is faking it." This wouldn't make it deus ex machine-ey just yet, but it would make it deus ex machine-ey at the time Rolo reveals to Lelouch he was just fibbing and how he's hasn't been fooled at all by Lelouch's words, etc etc. If we're supposed to believe come Episode 17 that Rolo didn't really snap, then it begs the retrograde question of why Rolo spared Lelouch's life at the start of Episode 4. Only a fragile-minded Rolo would have done that. It's too silly to argue that a strong-minded Rolo, in that split second he had to figure shit out, decided to pretend to be fragile-minded and spare Lelouch. Does. Not. Follow. :|

Sigh. And Episode 5 looks like it's the first "goofy filler" episode of the new season. Last time iirc that didn't happen until Episode 8 ... maybe it was earlier, but I seem to recall the "Suzaku joins the school and chases the cat around campus with Zero's mask" being 8 or so. Anyway ...

[Talon87]

One more plot hole with Rolo this episode I forgot to mention ...

They claim that he can't affect physical objects when the missile is fired at him -- he only has the ability to stop human beings. Time itself continues to pass normally, although to those under the influence of the Geass it seems as though time is passing seamlessly to them and yet Rolo is moving with incredible speed. There is a big problem with this claim! :x

Rolo used his Geass to time-hop closer to Lelouch while the KnightMare frames on the toppled platform were still falling or racing towards level ground. Given the explanation that Rolo can't stop physical objects' passage through time, that would mean that the KnightMare frames ought to have continued to fall down the incline, i.e. Rollo shouldn't have been able to catch up any faster with his Geass than he would have without it. Because (say) in the 5 seconds he "freezes" time for the humans (but it's still really passing) and he orders the Vincent to march towards Lelouch, Lelouch's KnightMare frame would have been tugged by gravity + it still would have had the initial forward momentum he ordered into it right before Rolo's Geass went off.

In other words, I'll agree that if the Vincent is overall faster than the gap should decrease second-by-second, but I'm saying that there's no way that Rolo could have gone from far away to super-close in just 1 or 2 seconds. The Vincent's isn't that fast, and the KnightMare frames all ought to have still been falling + going under their drivers' last-inputted commands. Besides, if people's bodies freeze in place and leaning forward with your arms is how you make a KnightMare frame accelerate then there's 0% reason to think that the KnightMares would have slowed down while Rolo's Geass was activated.

[Doppleganger]

I hated this episode. Passionately.

Plot holes aside, Lelouch persuading Rollo to cooperate with him early on was so much bull-crack. I was expecting the gun to be empty and Lelouch to nail him with a permanent slave Geass - yet, he didn't even Geass Rollo when he was staring right at him! What the heck?

Lelouch's plan was dumb, but Gilford was even dumber to let it happen, honor aside - everyone should have known about the Black Rebellion tactic and letting themselves into such a situation was bloody idiotic. Not to mention Zero's officers were RIGHT THERE ON THE PLATFORM WITH THE BRITANNIANS!

Let's not talk about the ridiculousness of the surfboard, my golly gee. -_-

The twist at the end (Lelouch Geassing one of the Gaston Knights) was totally predictable.

I was so infuriated by how much this episode waned I read up the summaries for Episode 6,7,8 - I'm now considering dropping the show. Sunrise is back to its own dirty tricks again.

[Talon87]

Well, like I mentioned, I think what I'm going to do now that I've got the suspense of seeing Episode 4 out of my system is just download a huge stretch of 'em ... let's say 5 through 10 ... and then watch those in one sitting. I'm not angry -- and definitely not outraged as you appear to be -- so I'll keep watching the show, sure, but I agree that Sunrise is really disappointing me here.

I'm sure Mcsweeney feels the same way as me, that the more I see of Geass, the more ashamed I am of plugging Goro Taniguchi as the genius who gave us the PlanetES anime. :x Yeah, he did give us Planetes, and yeah, the Planetes anime is (imo) better than the manga (which is still absolutely awesome), but it's starting to feel so, so much like Planetes was a fluke success of Sunrise's and as a company they're really not much better than -- dare I say it? -- Gainax. :x

[Doppleganger]

Too much of R2 involves stealing plot ideas from R1, this episode was the fourth to have "copypasta" and won't be the last, we'll be having much more with episodes 6 - 8. The twist at the end of Episode 5 might impress you; at first I was surprised at it but looking at the reactions of everyone it's just going to introduce more unnecessary wangst/drama and delay the anime from every getting out of Japan.

Back during Geass I, I felt Cornelia would die around Episode 18, and it seems Schneizel might not even die in this season either because everything up to Episode 15 is projected to be conquest of Japan stuff. The Knight of Rounds, who were supposed to be busy with Europe, suddenly rush back to Japan to fight Zero? What?

The only way I'll be eager to watch more Geass right now is if Cornelia joins; if the summaries are any prophecy of the future, I will drop this show at Episode 7 or 8.

[Doppleganger]

This just in. Nightmare of Nunally's manga just revealed C.C's origins! Might not be canon to the anime (probably isn't) but still interesting - She's Joan of Arc.

[Talon87]

That's fucking retarded.

Just letting you know I'm downloading Geass R2 Ep5 today when it comes out but have no intention of watching it. As mentioned before, I'll wait until maybe the next 10 or so episodes are out before I start up again, and if on a 10-episode splurge the show still pisses me off and strikes me as contrived, then I'll just drop it altogether.

[Doppleganger]

As I've said before, my laptop was destroyed a couple weeks ago which really hurt me in terms of getting work down/preparing for exams, but I also lost my way of getting torents. So, I've been watching Geass on several streaming websites - I've got to vent how annoyingly competitive these guys are. They're smart to only put ads in their YouTube/Veoh uploads so people can watch their private videos, but at the same time, they're doing weekly ads for subbed episodes that they haven't even gotten subbed yet. In the past (last week) I even went to a site that didn't have the RAW uploaded.

I guess they're waiting for [gg] or Eclipse, but from what I've seen they're ambivalent to quality and just want to put out whoever gets there first. So why the delay?

[Doppleganger]

Not a bad episode! I was much more impressed than last week, though almost all of the twists seemed intuitive to me so anything that wasn't spoiled wasn't unexpected. A bit of a filler episode, true, but several humps have been vaulted.

And the mountain one I disliked has now reared its ugly head.

Note to Talon - you are wise to hold back on this episode. This, and the next four, are probably going to be best watched in a row.

[Doppleganger]

Someone just gave a fantastic explanation for why Lelouch is bad at sports.

As we all know, when in his Zero costume he's like the black King chess piece incarnated. To further compound the metaphor, Lelouch is bad a sports and can't move very well in a parallel to the King only being able to move a single space at a time on the chess board, whereas the Queens (Suzaku and Kallen) can go all over the place with incredible endurance.

[Talon87]

. . .

I feel incredibly dim-witted for not having realized sooner that the chess metaphor carried over to the main cast. I think you've mentioned it before in your writings, too, and it's just never sunk in until now. Wow. :x

[Doppleganger]

The first part of episode six was like oh god what, another Sunrise twist.

Then I was all, FUDGE YEAH! :dance:

[Talon87]

Still haven't seen 5. Your mood seems to be changing towards the show from angrily pessimistic (4) to quite pleased (6), so I might pick it up again once Ep10 airs instead of Ep15. We'll see.

[Doppleganger]

I feel I was a bit pre-emptive with that post, as a few minutes later at 7:19 into Geass 6, reared the biggest twist in the entire series. I think it just spoiled 10% of the entire series mystery.

WARNING! POTENTIALLY SERIES-RUINING SPOILER HERE
Charles di Britannia calls V.V. his older brother. This implies he is Lelouch's uncle and is probably THE Britannian royal who interfered with the American Revolution, thus leading to Britannia become the super-power it is today.

...

On skipping - I think you were in the right to delay things until episode 10 or so, this current stretch would be murder week-by-week.

...

EDIT:

Except for the moronic same-old-same-old Lelouch moments from season I (gosh), this episode was AMAZING! Even with the ridiculous flaws, 10/10! In one episode I watched the Guren-Nishiki digivolve into GURREN-LAGANN! Watching the show without sound, I didn't hear Sunrise's theme but when GN "rose from the ashes" as it were GL's fanfare started playing in my head.

GOD IT WAS GLORIOUS! Dramatically perfect! Do I detect the faint touch of tears in my eyes? ;_;

EDIT II:

Re-watched the episode with sound and better colour; it's not as great as I originally said without sound (the music was ill-placed, less focus on the action with sound/music) but still a good episode, 8/10 considering the flaws and liberalities.

[Doppleganger]

I've mentioned this before, but Geass II seems to follow parallels with Geass I, right down to the plot scenarios with a twist. Comparison chart (spoiled in case it just might be a small spoiler):



[center:2mq1jdan]Geass II | Geass I
Episode 1 / Episode 1
Episode 2 / Episode 4, 2
Episode 3 / Episode 3, 15
Episode 4 / Episode 4, 17
Episode 5 / Episode 21
Episode 6 / Episode 8, 11, 21[/center:2mq1jdan]


Episode 7 appears to be the equivalent of Episode 9 in Geass I. From the two spoilers dropped, it won't advance the overall plot much but it's like detonating a nuclear weapon as far as character-character development is going to go.

I'm very eager for Episode 7, despite initial skepticism of it going to suck. As long as we don't get another Episode 3 I think I'll walk away content.

[Doppleganger]

Wow, something actually happened.

...

Is this a dream? o_O

[Talon87]

Still holding out! XD Still quit watching at Episode 4! Still waiting to see 5, 6, and now 7!

Given your excitement, I'll probably tune in at 10. But if I can hold out till 15, all the better.

[Doppleganger]

Given your excitement, I'll probably tune in at 10. But if I can hold out till 15, all the better.

Well, I'm seeing people all over the internet simply tear into this episode, but I really liked it because it clearly defined all of the Lelouch conflicts spread out over the first season into a single episode, and made some progression in the actual story. If everything goes Just as Planned, Geass II might finally stop being a rehash of Geass I.

Kallen had a comic relief moment, here. I actually smiled at it.

Kallen: "I'll do anything you tell me! Pilot a Knightmare, be bait...anything!"
Lelouch: "Then...comfort me. In a way that only a woman can".
Kallen: "...stop!"
*slap*


I'm a bit confused on Lelouch's mentality, though, given the previews. I don't understand what conclusion he's arrived at that suddenly brought back his morale.

I was also a bit disappointed because It seems nobody remembers Nunally vi Britannia was the daughter of the assassinated empress Marianne vi Britannia. There was no reaction anywhere from anyone; not Todou, not Kallen, nor Lelouch. Nothing of the vi Britannia royal heritage was actually brought up, which makes me wonder.

Unfortunately, I feel Lelouch's battles aren't as interesting to me before as they once were. When I frst saw the battle in this episode, it was still exciting but on the second watch, it was 80% less appealing, because all of Lelouch's battles can be summarized as:

1. Britannians have offensive.
2. Japanese are getting owned.
3. Zero appears, gives paradoxical orders.
4. Japanese follow through, Britannians get over-confident.
5. Zero takes advantage of the terrain somehow and wipes out the entire Britannian force.
6. People go, "impossible!"
7. Enter the hax machines.

#5 was true for three out of six battles in Geass I (Battle of Shinjuku, Battle of Narita, Black Rebellion) and for three out of four in Geass II (Battle of Babel Tower, Battle of Tokyo Embassy, Battle of Tokyo Dock).

Why don't I find these battles interesting? Aside from the same formula, the whole "stormtrooper effect" is really taking its toll; there are tons of Britannian military units destroyed, their numbers never end, yet Lelouch never makes a serious dent in their war machine. Gurren-Lagann was far worse in that billions of enemies could be destroyed on screen and yet no one would care, but Geass has started to stumble in this regard as well.

...

As of right now, I still think you've got the right idea to wait, because Geass is currently in an "arc" and it probably won't end until the end of ten or so.

My rankings for Geass II's episodes:

Episode 1 - 7/10
Episode 2 - 9/10
Episode 3 - 6/10
Episode 4 - 4/10
Episode 5 - 7/10
Episode 6 - 10/10 (8/10)
Episode 7 - 7/10

Each equivalent episode in Geass I was on average 10-20% higher than these values, and I'm not factoring in originality since these episodes have the same scenario only jumbled up a bit.

[Doppleganger]

I just watched Eclipse's subs, after watching Chihiro first and then gg. Honestly, all the subbers messed up where the other subbers stayed strong - if all the groups pooled their efforts we'd have had a perfect sub here.

That said, now I understand Lelouch's motivation and his morale booster (Eclipse was the only one clear on this) but how Lelouch got there is still a mystery. There's still a huge leap from Zero isn't needed anymore. to Zero exists for more than just Nunally.. This is to say, I don't know how the glass metaphor was supposed to tie into Lelouch experiencing some kind of revelation.

[Doppleganger]

Well, now we all know the Geass on Suzaku was a very bad idea, it seems to have given Suzaku a limited form of immortality. As if his plot-shielding wasn't bad enough! :doh:

That said.

This episode was...weird. Convoluted would be an understatement, it was very strange logic and I'm not sure where the story is heading. Rather, it looks like progress is indeed going to happen - the setting is finally "changing".

Rating...6/10. Too much of this episode was filler, there's a two week wait until the next episode, but big things have been promised.

[Talon87]

I feel bad both for me and for you that by my not watching it you've got nobody to talk to, so I'll probably be tuning back in with 10, Doppel, instead of 15. That'll be 3 weeks from today, by which time I'll probably be ready for the six-episode splurge anyway.

Nothing's been spoilered for me except I saw fanart of the Chinese leader (I presume; the white-haired loli?), so I guess that means she's at least been shown if not downright incorporated into the plot. Which is cool, because you know I'm excited about China's role in the Geass storyline. :)

I've seen a higher-than-normal amount of fanart of the pink-haired KnightMare pilot, so I'm guessing she was in the spotlight for a moment or two herself. But nothing spoilerish about those images -- I already knew she existed, and the images are just fanart of her standing half-dressed looking out at the viewer. Not much different from the official art. :roll:

I'm actually sort of disappointed by the low level of postings on iichan about Code Geass. It belies the sad truth that either:

1) the show is just not that good, or
2) iichan's culture has seriously moved away from being neutral and has polarized towards shoujo and harem series. Since all they seem to be talking about is Itazura na Kiss, Shugo Chara, and Kamen no Maid Guy. Could be worse, I suppose: they could be posting about Kanokon. :x

[Doppleganger]

No, don't come back yet. Wait until at least 13, because a new arc is about to start in two weeks (Geass 09 was delayed because of the earthquake in China...hint hint) because this new arc is definitely "new", as in, not a parallel of the first season, not a repeat, not copypasta - fresh territory.

After thinking a bit about things, I realize what Lelouch did in Geass 08 was actually very smart, though it's LOL LOGIC all the way - compared to the Black Rebellion, it's a stroke of genius, since the Black Rebellion was a spur-of-the-moment short-sighted defiance against the odds and even without Lelouch scampering off, it probably would have failed anyway.

The next four or five episodes are going to be as good as the first eleven, I reckon. Suzaku's not going to get in the way, Lelouch's love for his siblings won't either - it'll be made of win and God.

[Talon87]

Hmm ... okay then. :| :) I'll hold off until 15.

[Doppleganger]

Some interesting bits of information from a recent magazine interview:

1. There will be a new girl added to Ashford Academy circa Episode 12. She's a purple headed girl who looks something like Milly's body with Rollo's face. Name's Sophie.
2. The "Geass Runaway" effect where Lelouch's Geass won't turn off wasn't triggered from over-use, but the activation of the ruins on Kaminejima. Over-use only aggravated the problem.
3. Lelouch remembers the face of every person he ever Geass'd.

[Talon87]

Some interesting bits of information from a recent magazine interview:

1. There will be a new girl added to Ashford Academy circa Episode 12. She's a purple headed girl who looks something like Milly's body with Rollo's face. Name's Sophie.
2. The "Geass Runaway" effect where Lelouch's Geass won't turn off wasn't triggered from over-use, but the activation of the ruins on Kaminejima. Over-use only aggravated the problem.
3. Lelouch remembers the face of every person he ever Geass'd.

Regarding 1 ... considering Millay has one of the best bodies in the series, yes. But Rollo's face? Hmm ... :| ... I'll have to see it in action first.

Regarding 2 ... um ... :| ... sounds like Sunrise wants to have its cake and eat it too. "It wasn't caused by overuse ............. but it was partly caused by overuse." Playing with words like "caused" vs. "aggravated" is dumb. For all intents and purposes relative to this discussion, they're the same damn thing. Either Lulu's overuse didn't matter or it did. And they're saying it did. Which is what we've always said. So why do they come along and feel the need to say, "It did ... but it didn't. :3" Oh fuck off, Sunrise, and please don't ruin the story any more. -_-

Regarding 3 ... do they mean some sort of special memory? or do they just mean that in the off-hand sense of "Yeah, Lelouch never forgets the people he's Geass'd just like a surgeon may never forget the people's he's operated on or a teacher may never forget the students she's taught." ?

[Doppleganger]

Regarding 2 ... um ... :| ... sounds like Sunrise wants to have its cake and eat it too. "It wasn't caused by overuse ............. but it was partly caused by overuse." Playing with words like "caused" vs. "aggravated" is dumb. For all intents and purposes relative to this discussion, they're the same damn thing. Either Lulu's overuse didn't matter or it did. And they're saying it did. Which is what we've always said. So why do they come along and feel the need to say, "It did ... but it didn't. :3" Oh fuck off, Sunrise, and please don't ruin the story any more. -_-


That's partly my interpretation. Sunrise just said Lelouch's presence on the island, which was orchestrated by V.V., activated the ruins which in turn caused his Geass Runaway. However, it's obvious to anyone that Lelouch's Geass wasn't shown to be permanently "on" in the episodes following the journey on Kaminejima, though to my knowledge Lelouch didn't actually use his Geass at any time after he cursed Suzaku with it before it went out of control. IMV if the ruins caused the damage to his Geass, it would have been immediate and not something to happen days later.


Regarding 3 ... do they mean some sort of special memory? or do they just mean that in the off-hand sense of "Yeah, Lelouch never forgets the people he's Geass'd just like a surgeon may never forget the people's he's operated on or a teacher may never forget the students she's taught." ?

My impression is it's a byproduct of his Geass, since there have been times Lelouch has Geass'd crowds or random nobodies and yet according to Sunrise he remembers who they were. Though, a likely Sunrise explanation would probably attribute this to Lelouch's superior memory.

...

Some other misc. notes.

Warning: Avoid exploring the Geass.tv website, there are a number of spoilers lurking around there through Episode 16.

1. There are going to be three (http://www.geass.jp/world_03_ex.html?pid=chara_37.html) new additions to the Black Knights as well. Give their voice actresses (Orikasa, Ohara, Gotou) they're probably going to be Black Knight equivalents in personality to Shirley, Millay, and Anya.
2. Rollo is classified on Sunrise's website as a Black Knight, but Viletta is still on the Britannian side.*
3. In the ending, Rollo has two different colour (black/white) wings sprouting out of his back. Those loyal to Britannia have white wings, those to Lelouch with black ones. Nunally has none.

*Minor Episode 5 spoiler. I didn't even think about it at first because it was pretty minor, but caught it at the last moment.

[Doppleganger]

gg has dropped Geass.

The whole turn of events has been pretty humourous, really. Sad and pathetic at the same time, but none-the-less humourous.

[Doppleganger]

So, the new Geass came out. My impression is - it was OK, not too many new developments but we're finally getting to see Schneizel v. Lelouch. Actually, cut that. There WAS a big revelation, which I found rather interesting -

Jeremiah Gottwald says, "Not even C.C. or Lelouch can stop me". V.V. called him Zero, so I don't know if this means Jeremiah knows Zero = Lelouch or not. Whatever the case, Jeremiah does seem aligned with Britannia on this one - in the side materials of long ago, Jeremiah was revealed to be one of Marianne vi Britannia's guards, so I would expect him to be more loyal to the vi Britannias more than anyone else. Not the case I see.

[Doppleganger]

The first fifteen minutes of Turn 10 were terrible. Suddely, there was a shocking development (a tease rather) at 15:15 that fizzled into nothing...then an even bigger surprise at 15:31. NOW THAT WAS A TWIST HAHAHA...!

There was an even BIGGER twist at the end, but...I think someone figured out what was going on so it was pretty funny to see.

5/10

[Doppleganger]

Episode 11...it's pretty bad. I was expecting some miraculous turn-around victory, but suddenly, the school life takes over again! The "upset" was pretty lame IMV, strategy trumps action my arse. I'm rather disappointed waiting after last week's episode just to see this. Of course, i don't know how everyone else feels about it yet either...

More Anya moments, very good this is.

OH SNAP WHAT THE CRACKERS. @_@

4/10...

[Doppleganger]

Lelouch's reputation is trashed! Haha, oh what.

...meh, 2/10. =/

[Doppleganger]

I watched Geass live.

I'm sort of glad I did, but man...8/10 episode. ;_;

[Doppleganger]

Talon sure picked a far out episode to return on. Turn 14 gets a 9/10 from me...some good parts, a lot of meh parts, and a few RAGE moments.

...

After watching the subs, I've decided to do something I rarely do - change my initial opinion. This episode ROCKED!

[Doppleganger]

Turn 15 -

0/10, SHERBET SUCKS! It was bad enough Sunrise turned Guren Nishiki into Gurren-Lagann, but now they go and emulate Evangelion too?! BUGGER OFF MAGGOTS, THAT EPISODE WAS TERRRRIBLE!

...

Ok, I over-reacted. In light of Lelouch's GAR and what happened to him I promote this episode to 1/10 status. It was still baaad though. -_-

[Doppleganger]

Turn 17 -

7/10

Turn 16 was a 6/10 as well.

[Doppleganger]

TURN 18 - 11/10, glowing episode! :D I was really glad "she's" finally out of the picture, and he fights were glorious. Great stuff!

[Doppleganger]

I've been a bit lazy I think with these episode ratings, but after Turn 21 I simply MUST come back!

Turn 19 - 6/10
Turn 20 - 1/10
Turn 21 - 12/10!!!

[Doppleganger]

Turn 22 - 6/10
Turn 23 - 4/10
Turn 24 - 9/10

This last episode was quite good. :D

[Doppleganger]

I felt the ending was terrible and I was furious when it first aired, now I'm just sad.

Overall series rating:

Turn 1 - 7/10
Turn 2 - 9/10
Turn 3 - 6/10
Turn 4 - 4/10
Turn 5 - 7/10
Turn 6 - 8/10
Turn 7 - 7/10
Turn 8 - 6/10
Turn 9 - 6/10
Turn 10 - 5/10
Turn 11 - 4/10
Turn 12 - 2/10
Turn 13 - 8/10
Turn 14 - 9/10
Turn 15 - 0/10
Turn 17 - 7/10
TURN 18 - 11/10
Turn 19 - 6/10
Turn 20 - 1/10
Turn 21 - 12/10
Turn 22 - 6/10
Turn 23 - 4/10
Turn 24 - 9/10
Turn 25 - 5/10

=.596 ~ 60%

Average show is average, but not mediocre. It's average because it has a lot of good parts...and just as many terrible parts. A trainwreck? Yes, and certainly that train did crash.

[Vran]

I loved the ending to Code Geass (final season). I think it would have been a copout had they not ... you know. I actually enjoyed it so much it restored my faith in the series and commitment to buying it on DVD some day.

[Holy Emperor]

It wasn't bad. Well at least for magical boy animes.

[Tyranidos]

I liked the ending a lot.

Of course, the season still sucked ass.

[Doppleganger]

I loved the ending to Code Geass (final season). I think it would have been a copout had they not ... you know.


He did, but he didn't stay that way.


I actually enjoyed it so much it restored my faith in the series and commitment to buying it on DVD some day.

That is the completely opposite opinion of 99.99% of the people who saw the series, even those who enjoyed it to death. It is so contrary, I am having a hard time believing you're not trying to be sarcastic.

[Vran]

I was clapping at the end. I loved it. I had been borderline about buying the DVDs up until the last three episodes. And the last three clinched it, one after the other.

As for Lelouch, I think you've succumbed to 4chan speculation. Might he have gone the Marianne path? So say stupid 4chan fans. But what they neglect to recognize is the painfully obvious: namely, that Marianne's Geass ability allowed her to exist within others (and thus she was never really dead during the time she communicated with C.C.), whereas Lelouch, having no such Geass, is doubtful to have existed within C.C. at the end of the series.

In other words, the fact that she talked aloud to Lelouch atop the hay wagon is hardly proof that he's still alive anymore than it is proof that I have a man inside my head when I pace around my study talking to myself.

[Doppleganger]

I was clapping at the end. I loved it. I had been borderline about buying the DVDs up until the last three episodes. And the last three clinched it, one after the other.


I can imagine someone liking the ending, in fact a lot of people ended up liking it. I was disappointed in the not-that-grandiose of a "twist", but found it an OK end overall. It was also a rip-off ending from The Watchmen but the producers all but admitted V for Vendetta was a large influence on the direction the story was going to take, so I'm not surprised it happened like that.

What baffles me is your implied approval for all of R2, which is stupefying to say the least. Especially compared with the rather solid, and consistent, season one of Geass preceding it. Sure, Geass' original ending wasn't the best way to end things, but the point is that's what the director wanted to happen from the beginning, and R2 was nothing but a huge, huge retcon.


As for Lelouch, I think you've succumbed to 4chan speculation. Might he have gone the Marianne path? So say stupid 4chan fans. But what they neglect to recognize is the painfully obvious: namely, that Marianne's Geass ability allowed her to exist within others (and thus she was never really dead during the time she communicated with C.C.), whereas Lelouch, having no such Geass, is doubtful to have existed within C.C. at the end of the series.

In other words, the fact that she talked aloud to Lelouch atop the hay wagon is hardly proof that he's still alive anymore than it is proof that I have a man inside my head when I pace around my study talking to myself.

No, the argument is Lelouch is the new V.V., having acquired the code of immortality from Charles.

The immortality code doesn't actually take effect until the original (fully mature) Geass user dies, hence why the nun in C.C.'s memory had to stab her in order to finally die herself. C.C. still has the scar to show she was killed, since that injury occurred before she had become immortal.

When Lelouch confronted Charles in the World of C, his Geass fully matured. Although this was dramatic, it technically shouldn't have meant anything because a one-eyed Geass has the same power as a two eyed one, although it was portrayed as perhaps a requirement for commanding Jupiter (which raises the question of why Charles, having had a mature Geass for many years, didn't simply wish on "God" to grant his new world :lol:).

Still, the two eyed Geass was the one condition required for transfer of codes, and sure enough with his dying breath, Charles made physical contact with Lelouch using the hand with the code on it to choke him. That would have been Charles' last big "fudge you" to Lelouch for wrecking his lifelong plans.

[Vran]

R2 was nothing but a huge, huge retcon.I disagree. It was a huge, huge retcon up until the final two episodes. And then those final two episodes completely vindicated the entirety of R2. No longer was it just a retcon. They gave really solid meaning to Lelouch's command to Suzaku, to Lelouch and Nunnally's relationship, to Lelouch's personality ...

It's that last one that really strikes me as special. Before the end of the program, Lelouch was frustratingly bipolar. There were times when he seemed hellbent on watching the world go up in flames and there were other times when he seemed to be fighting tooth and nail to save the people of Earth. The end of the show gave, in my view, a valid argument for Lelouch's seemingly megalomaniacal actions. Now it all made sense: this was all part of the plan.

Deus ex machina, perhaps, but I don't think so. I think that they came up with this idea some time late in Season 1's production. I agree with you that the original season is initially presented like a stand-alone package right up until the very last few episodes. And I think this is why: I think the writers came up with the idea of R2's ending and realized they didn't have enough time to make it work. They couldn't get Lelouch to conquer the world and behave like a jackass in so short a time. So they needed to lengthen the series if only by a couple of episodes, and they instead decided "What the heck? :D " and milked the franchise for money with a full second season.

I should tell you that I didn't watch Code Geass R2 until it was already done airing, so maybe I was less frustrated with it than you seem to have been because I was able to marathon four or five episodes a day.

[Doppleganger]

It's that last one that really strikes me as special. Before the end of the program, Lelouch was frustratingly bipolar. There were times when he seemed hellbent on watching the world go up in flames and there were other times when he seemed to be fighting tooth and nail to save the people of Earth. The end of the show gave, in my view, a valid argument for Lelouch's seemingly megalomaniacal actions. Now it all made sense: this was all part of the plan.


Well, that was the point, wasn't it? The subtitle for the show is "Lelouch of the Rebellion" and if there was anything the show did right, it was critically analyze Lelouch and show his personal development over the series.

If he had started out that way from the very beginning, the whole show's focus would have been different.


Deus ex machina, perhaps, but I don't think so. I think that they came up with this idea some time late in Season 1's production. I agree with you that the original season is initially presented like a stand-alone package right up until the very last few episodes. And I think this is why: I think the writers came up with the idea of R2's ending and realized they didn't have enough time to make it work. They couldn't get Lelouch to conquer the world and behave like a jackass in so short a time. So they needed to lengthen the series if only by a couple of episodes, and they instead decided "What the heck? :D " and milked the franchise for money with a full second season.


I can't really say if R2's ending was what was originally intended, although it seems likely, though the original plot for R2 was actually quite ridiculous, even moreso than what we got.

I will say that Charles was supposed to be the final villain, not Schneizel. Charles dying early was just a product of R2's trajectory and allowed both that stupid mutiny and Lelouch becoming emperor to happen. Lelouch and Suzaku teaming up was planned from the very beginning, but so was the destruction of the Order of the Black Knights and the deaths of more than half the cast. Not everything happened as was originally envisioned.


I should tell you that I didn't watch Code Geass R2 until it was already done airing, so maybe I was less frustrated with it than you seem to have been because I was able to marathon four or five episodes a day.

I don't think that matters as far as the Lelouch oriented material goes, but what drives people bonkers is everything else that happened, particularly with the side characters.

Subplots were dropped like flies, even those introduced only in R2. Characters made ridiculously stupid decisions, there was the "worst case scenario" problem, deus ex machina and the whole arms race...pretty much, every detail not centered around Lelouch's personal character development melted into a mass of blood and feathers on someone's windshield.

[Raptor Jesus]

Lelouch is dead. If he's not dead, he's dead to everyone else. Who the fuck gives a shit? It's a goddamn anime. You can argue his death from now til apocalypse and you'll never know for certain unless they make Code Geass Season 3: Lelouch is Jesus!

[Doppleganger]

I hope you're directing that toward the general "Lelouch is dead/not dead" debate society and not just the people in this topic. :X

There IS going to be more Geass coming next year, so there's a good chance we'll see him again, either in prologue or epilogue form.

After-all, despite all the pomp and promise, nobody knows where Geass came from or why it was on Earth. That story still needs to be told.

[Raptor Jesus]

I hope you're directing that toward the general "Lelouch is dead/not dead" debate society and not just the people in this topic. :X

Yeah, cuz I think it's one of the dumbest debates I ever saw in an Anime Forum.

There IS going to be more Geass coming next year, so there's a good chance we'll see him again, either in prologue or epilogue form.

After-all, despite all the pomp and promise, nobody knows where Geass came from or why it was on Earth. That story still needs to be told.

Quite honestly I think I'm gonna hate that. There's a lot of things best left unknown and give something more allure from being unknown. But by revealing it, you kill the amazement of it. Like magic tricks or stuff found in horror/sci-fi movies. Leaving things unexplained doesn't make things worse, but revealing it can.

[Doppleganger]

Yeah, cuz I think it's one of the dumbest debates I ever saw in an Anime Forum.


You don't have to be Geass specific then.

[INSERT CHARACTER} DIES debates are stupid. SPIKE DIES. AERIS DIES.

AKAGI DIES.

Whoops...

Leaving things unexplained doesn't make things worse, but revealing it can.

While that is true for many series, it isn't true for Geass. The Geass history was the only subplot that was actually bigger than Lelouch himself, so even if he's not going to star in the next series, I expect that subplot to be the main focus.

Personally, I found the Geass subplot a lot more interesting than everything save the Suzaku - Lelouch dynamic, and the Geass heavily influenced the direction of that dynamic.