Ever17 -the out of infinity-

[Doppleganger]

Haha, man. Originally, I planned to type this out at UC Davis Saturday afternoon, but everything was locked down so I had to go home. I'm nineteen, and a college Junior, so one would expect me to know better on Saturdays that 'the' Memorial Union, which is what we have instead of a "student" union, wouldn't be open today. But I had no idea all the computer labs would be closed! I ended up walking to and from home, not to mention all across campus, carrying a CD that had all of my data/notes for this topic. I hope no one was watching. D:

Why do I say this? No real reason...
...

The visual novel I've been raving about for a while now is in fact Ever17 ―the out of infinity― (エãƒÂ�ー・セブンムâ€*ィーン). It is the third visual novel I have played, following Narcissu, Fate/stay night, and preceeding OMGWTFOTL (though I finished that one before Ever17) and it is the longest of all the novels I have played. By far. I clocked myself around approximately one hundred and fifty three hours (equivalent to a little less than six and a half days), from Thursday 26 June 2007 through Friday, 6 July 2007. Suffice to say, I was thoroughly entertained, and when I finished the novel I ended up with the confidence/ego boost of a lifetime. Simply put, this novel is electrifying, and with great enthusiasm do I say it is the *best* written Japanese media I have ever had the honor of experiencing. The reason I did not name this title earlier is named in the spoiler discussion at the end of this introduction.

Now, for a little background information. The company who created Ever17 was named KID - Kindle Imagine Develop, a professional company specializing in bishoujo visual novels. I say "was" because, sadly, the company declared bankruptcy last year and is now defunct - this is likely because of the investment capital costs of its projects, particularly because the voice acting services for the games (which are top-notch, I might add) were expensive and labour-intensive. This is quite tragic, given that Ever17 received high acclaim in Japan, which is part of the reason it was noticed as a potentially great title to bring off shore.

Our benefactor for this game's English existence is Hirameki International. Hirameki is the only localizer/distributor of Japanese visual novels for the English speaking world, and frankly, never before have I respect a localization company as much as them. Not only are visual novels a dangerous investment because of the low appeal/stereotyping (and duly justified) of them as porn games, the magnitude of the translation project is ASTRONOMICAL. I say without exaggeration that the amount of translated material in Ever17 rivals the amount present in all of the manga published by a company like Del Rey combined together - and considering a huge library of manga could cost anywhere in the upper bounds of several hundred dollars while Ever17 has a comparable amount of translated material with full colour, voice, music, sound, and a game element - decision making - at only $50, it's mere existence in English is a miracle. Heck, the title getting licensed before KID's bankruptcy is a miracle itself, too - one could almost call it a quirk of fate. This is perhaps a first for me, and I say it with great vigor: SUPPORT HIRAMEKI. Only 2,000 copies of Ever17 were sold on the initial release compared with 10,000 for Bible Black, the infamous occult eroge. Hirameki did good work and I'm proud to have enjoyed their product.

This is but the introduction - I will proceed to examine each of the game's elements in turn, noting the positive and negatives of the game. Because this game is, perhaps, a milestone for me in which I have actually been spoiled (badly) for two major plot points, I shall undertake it onto myself to provide a "clean" environment for casual readers, such that nothing, and I mean nothing of value will ever be spoiled in this topic. Ever. Ruining Ever17 for someone would be the sin of a lifetime for me, and I'll go beyond my best to make sure it doesn't happen. In my own experience I was long ago spoiled for Ever17 but forgot the whole plot and details, and even if I had remembered most of them there is no way they would have mattered all that much until the puzzle, and I will say there is a puzzle to this story, was starting to form. When it was just a shapeless mass of nothing spoilers mattered little, but halfway through the novel they were killer. I wouldn't want someone to stumble onto a landmine accidentally without giving a stern, due warning.

- Mechanics -

Though this is an odd choice to start my review on, I do believe it should take precedence over the details of the game given there's some distinctions between Ever17 and other novels. Namely, Ever17 differs from other Hirameki products (or so I am told) in that it sports its own execution engine, whereas the other games need to rely on a DVD player of some sorts (either a real player or a software one like MediaPlayer or VLC) that are ultimately of poorer visual quality and possess a troublesome interface. Ever17 lacks this and all of the troubles associated with them, but the engine is not perfect - one cannot minimize the game screen and still be able to listen to music/sounds going on in-game. For those purposes, everything is paused, although in auto-read and fast-forward mode the game will still run.

Another issue of note is the fast-forward option, activated by triggering it in the options menu and holding CTRL down or simply pressing F3. Unlike FSN, the fast-forward of Ever17 is far slower, taking a great deal more time to sift through - while this did not bother me initially, when I became frustrated trying to obtain a certain someone's path the option was a hindrance, whereas the lightning-quick one in FSN was a boon even if I used it far less there.

Interface-wise, Ever17 is limited to being but a visual novel. One reads text, watches "sprites" on screen move around, and occasionally decisions can be made. These decisions are limited to no less than two but no more than six in one rare instance, but usually there are two to three options.

As far as the translation quality is concerned, I consider it very good, though because of carelessness some of the clues in the game were distorted by Hirameki (there were a couple instances of this) or they were just ignored because they could not be properly localized. At that, some of their substitutions were unnecessary, and lead to a great deal of un-needed confusion. I wish Hirameki would have released a patch to fix all of these troubles, but thus far it doesn't look like there's anything to come of it. Nevertheless, still a wonderful job, especially given how huge the novel is.

- Structure -

Ever17 is the longest novel I have played, and of those novels it probably has the most routes - instead one single, main plotline where "branches" extend off into Bad Ends, there are five principle routes dominated by plot, and at certain fulcrums the direction of a Bad End or Good End abruptly swings toward its earned path. That is to say, rather than a single decision influencing the direction of the plot like in FSN (id est, Shirou enters a room, encounters Berserker and gets squished), the aggregate decisions over the course of the first six days of the LeMU determine the route, which isn't locked into place until the middle of the seventh day for Takeshi and somewhere between the third and fourth days for the Kid.

Technically, there are two characters who get to shine in each "route" of Ever17 - Kuranari Takeshi, and the Kid. I saw 'technically' because in the final route, the perspectives alternate between the two. Takeshi's route has two Good Ends and one Bad End, which, as I said earlier, take the entire scenario to determine. Kid has two Good Ends, two Bad Ends, and two epilogues, which occur after the credits have rolled for finishing his scenarios. Kid's Bad Ends, unlike those for Takeshi, are very much like FSN in that a single decision can trigger them - suffice to say, I found Takeshi's Bad End to be bone-chilling and far, far, far superior to Kid's cop-out endings. Frankly, I was probably even more disappointed since I was expecting something grand out of Kid's Bad Ends after having played Takeshi, but I got a face-ful of "denied"!

Also, Takeshi *does* have an epilogue, but it's not reachable until after the final route, "Coco's Path", has been finished. Even then, it's not much of an epilogue and barely makes any sense - when I saw it, I thought the game was glitching on me or something. Not really worth the effort to play through Takeshi's route again just to see.

Of the possible pairings, the Kid gets You and Sara, while Takeshi gets Tsugumi and Sora.

- Plot -

On 1 May 2017, an accident occurs at an underwater theme-park off of the coast of Japan. While the majority of the attendees escaped, five individuals find themselves trapped in the facility with little chance of unaided escape. With further flooding of the complex temporarily stalled, the five individuals discover that they only have around seven days until the entire structure implodes under the severe water pressure. While they have provisions to support them, over the period of the week uncalculated emergencies happen that require immediate attention, and the group, originally composed of strangers, gradually become close friends and establish relationships with one another. As they grow closer and learn more about LeMU and its sponsor, the joint German-Japanese pharmaceutical behemoth Leiblich, they begin to suspect as to whether or not they are imprisoned beneath the sea by accident or nefarious machination.

...

Ever17's plot is fairly straightforward, and I daresay it doesn't introduce anything too original for the general setting. I cannot think of any archetypes at the moment but "being trapped at the bottom of the sea" is a stock scenario in many science fiction stories. Many such stories even go in-depth as to the specifics of the location, citing outside political factors as one of the reasons for a site's reaction (id est, a government-sponsored scientific marine observatory) - Ever17 meets these standards fairly well. We learn it is the year 2017, and much has changed since the year of our lord 2007 (actually, 2002 when this novel as made) - I shall not get into the specifics, but even for the world of this time, the theme-park LeMU is "out of this world" advanced and presumably continues to boast of such many years later. It's almost like a space station under-water, and a certain someone will go in depth regarding the structural damage and the limits of the complex.

As also evident from the unusual but not totally original stage, there is a prime opportunity for romance. Seven days worth. A lot of people who I spoke to who played the game are of the belief that "seven days is not long enough for people to fall in love", but I've heard of worse cases (ever hear of "love at first sight"?) that are significantly more fantastical. In spite of this, the romances are well developed, and I put a firm emphasis on this. Even the weakest of the romances, arguably Tsugumi, are still very touching and a number of people cried at the end of them. I should note that while I shed a manly tear during episode eight of Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann, I did not cry during Ever17 but I wish I did - I found myself too shocked at times to cry.

In any matter, while plot is essential for the backdrop of the story, and the atmosphere of LeMU and the world Ever17 occurs in paramount, the game is very character driven, rather than plot. By this I mean the few characters involved have a significant impact on the outcomes of the game, as opposed to the plot being the driving force and the characters merely being passengers along for the ride.

A small note - when I'm talking about plot, I'm just referring to the general setting irrespective of how the story actually played out. Consider clay - one needs good clay and fine skill to mold a beautiful sculpture. Right now, I'm just judging the quality of clay, not the artistry, which is to come toward the end.

- Characters -

Our heroes and heroines, the real attraction of the game. All of them sport original personalities and diverse dispositions/tastes - none of them are stereotypes. Their development over the seven days following the LeMU incident is astounding - it forced them to mature very quickly, even for older members of the group. Of course, one or two never change...

When I say these folk are the draw, I mean the player grows quite fond of them - after the ending, I found myself having a hard time saying good-bye to such a great bunch that I had hung around for the six days it took me to play this game. That is, it took me a long time to get through the epilogue, and when I did, I smiled, waved at the screen, and said (aloud) "abayo, dachi-ko".

There isn't any particular order to the listing. Although there are event screens for the males, they're not all that great so I did not include them.

...


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Tanaka You - Noriko Shitaya
An eighteen year old girl and a freshman at Kyumeikan Women’s University. Her real name isn't really "You", she just shortens it because her real name is very long and she's frequently embarrased about it. She works part time at LeMU as an attendant - she was caught in the accident while tending to a a disoriented guest. You is knowledgeable on a wide range of topics, ranging from the practical to trivial, and has a wealth of information on anything related to the occult. She's a firebrand and is fiercely independent, but also dedicated and trustworthy.

...

I really took a liking to You, even before I landed on her path - she had a lot of spunk and was quite, erm, intimidating with the amount of information she knew. Tsugumi and Sora were very simmilar in this regard, but for some reason I felt quite sheepish not having as many skills as You did in the dire situation that was the LeMU accident. She was a pleasure to talk to, very quirky and with a lot of energy. Among the girls, she's probably the funniest, since she does hilarious things and says a lot of hilarious stuff - she's as friendly as Coco and as kind as Sora. Quite a package, I daresay!

Of the female characters I'd say I would rank her second on my favourite list, and her romance was probably the smoothest of all other routes. At first, I was disappointed that Takeshi didn't get the opportunity to romance You, since they (quite clearly) had a lot of chemistry together, but her relationship with the Kid during her path was pretty cool.

Her epilogue confused me at first, but I was able to quickly compute what was occurring and my jaw dropped when I pieced together that part of the puzzle. It was very, very small in comparison to the other stuff in the novel, of course, but it was the biggest plot point I figured out myself, and I'm quite proud I was paying attention. Interestingly, two or three even BIGGER plot points were in that epilogue and I totally missed them - it was my own fault of course, but there's no way someone armed with the info I had could have been on the lookout for them. Loved this epilogue the most with the exception of the true epilogue.

...


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Komachi Tsugumi - Yuu Asakawa
A quiet seventeen year old girl who dislikes the company of others. She is fiercely intelligent and capable, but she hides these talents beneath a grimace of un-interest. Of her companions, Tsugumi is the most private and she rarely mingles with the rest of the cast - when she does, she is noticeably agitated. She frequently roams around LeMU while everyone else slumbers, searching for clues and doing various personal activities. Her reasons for coming to LeMU, not to mention why she is cold toward her party, are unknown.

...


Tsugumi is supposedly the most popular of the Ever17 characters here and abroad, but really I disliked her path the most and was actually cheering for Takeshi at the end of it. In fact, "cheering" cannot completely convey what I felt, "went Gar" would be more accurate.

Such reasoning is two-fold. Tsugumi, whose path I originally wanted to play, turned out to be outrageously tsundere, to the point of annoyance (extreme emphasis on the 'tsun tsun'). Takeshi was a good-willed, agreeable fellow, with a lot more patience than I would have had - Tsugumi grinded his face into the pavement and then make a big deal about it later as if she was the victim. I dislike Matou Sakura from Fate/stay night for the same reason - she acts and is depicted in a way that implies she's not responsible for her actions and should be forgiven because of her background, but really that is in-excusable. "Heaven's Feel" is excellent in every way but Sakura, and frankly she should have stayed a minor character and gone totally ignored by everyone in Fuyuki City.

Her background wasn't enough for me to forgive her for being such a jerk - when I was playing through the Bad End, I desperately wanted to know more about her and liked her earlier, cryptic talk and actions. But once Sora's development started, I abandoned Tsugumi because Sora was all the more interesting. Only until Coco's Path did I actually start to feel for Tsugumi, but for the majority of the game I held a strong grudge against her.

Additionally, the most time I spent on the game was devoted to obtaining Tsugumi's Path, which I missed one or two times after playing through the Bad End and Sora's Good End - she's just too difficult to please.

My second peeve with Tsugumi is that she did something positively vile to Sora in Sora's Path, but in effect it made Sora's Path all the more emotional - one could say it jump started Sora's progression. I guess in that sense Tsugumi sacrificed herself to prop Sora up on a pedestal, but I will always hate her for it. Especially since I didn't understand what happened there originally - it's tough to talk about, really.

...


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Akanegasaki Sora - Hiroko Kasahara
Prim, proper, and professional - at twenty four years old, Akanegasaki Sora has accomplished more than most people would have at twice her age. She is employed as the Systems Engineer for the LeMU computer administration system, and is second in rank only to manager of the whole theme park. When LeMU is under-handed, Sora enjoys doubling as a hostess and attendant for guests. She is a lover of nature and is very affable and curious, but she takes her job very seriously and is always concerned with the welfare of visitors.

...

Sora is, by far, my favourite character. Like You, I took an instant liking to her, since she was so incredibly polite and knowledgeable - she didn't seem to have too much of an interest in Takeshi at first, but he grew on her and they had a really nice relationship going toward the end of her route. She's designed to look like a "traditional beauty", and I've got to say I liked everyone else's designs more than Sora at first, but when I saw her CG pictures I fell for her. Lovely beyond words! Not to mention she's a kind hearted person as well and is very observant.

Among the ladies in the novel, Sora is the eldest but she isn't as wise as one would think - surely, she's not as foolhardy as Takeshi, but while sociable she hasn't made many friends during her life. Thus, she grows quite fond of her fellow companions trapped in LeMU and together they help Sora mature more than anyone would have ever dreamed.

I consider Sora's Path, specifically her Good End, to be one of the most emotionally profound endings of the game, and it was the one that shocked me the most. Of course, all of Takeshi's endings were powerful, but I felt Sora's was even more touching than Tsugumi's, particularly because of my bias against Tsugumi in favour of Sora and because Takeshi was even more GAR during it. 'twas a legendary ending, to say the least.

However, I must express that I feel Sora was given the short-end of the proverbial treatment stick in Coco's Path, as her final resolution is only marginally satisfying compared with the amazing finishes for the other characters. I felt a kindred bond with Sora that none of the other characters could share with her, which was referenced earlier in the game by her but wasn't revealed to be significant until Coco's Path - she never suspected this relationship, of course, it was beyond her understanding, but I got it and felt a whole lot of sympathy for her. A WHOLE lot of sympathy for her. However, she was happy in the end, and so long as she was happy I guess I can't help but smile as well.

...


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Matsunaga Sara - Kana Ueda
Sixteen year old Sara is a sophomore at Kyumeikan Girl's Academy, and is visiting LeMU on a field trip to do some volunteer work. She is a former classmate of You Tanaka, who she admires with great respect. Her interests are ninjas, ninjas, and ninjas - she loves talking about them and is seemingly obsessed. On the other hand, she is afraid of water and tries to avoid it. Although quite mischievous and a lover of teasing others, Sara is actually a rather lonely girl. She is quite skilled with computers and technology of all sorts.

...

Sara was an interesting case for me, really. As with Tsugumi, her path was the one I wanted to go down when I was playing the Kid, but somehow I ended up on You's Path (most likely because I took the same approach to the Kid's route that I did with Takeshi, only because of how Kid's plot lines are structured it was harder to get a Bad End) and wasn't disappointed. When I finally did go onto Sara's Path, I had already been spoiled for the major point of her route, but I think it just made things all the better since I would have not liked the surprise in her route at all. Rather, with that plot point out of the way, the lesser clues were quite interesting and they explained a lot about Kid as well. Not to mention the ending was quite romantic, in the original sense of the word. I loved her design - she is perhaps the best looking of all the characters, even taking into account Sora's "mature" beauty. Hanging around her was always fun as well, for she was very enthusiastic (in a different manner from Coco). I wish her route had as much detail in it as You's, there just wasn't enough material in there for her. Kid, on the other hand, got a lot of development from his relationship with Sara, whereas he considerably less from his time with You.

...


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Yagami Coco - Hisayo Mochizuki
An unusual girl with a sunny disposition, Coco is a very curious and playful, who has charm enough to even soften the hard heart of the distant Tsugumi. Her father is a researcher with Leiblich Pharmaceutical, and she is visiting the company theme park LeMU with him. She doesn't have any practical skills or useful information, but her cheer and adorable behaviour never fail to comfort those around her.

...

Coco is often said to be "impossible to dislike" but frankly, I didn't really feel anything special about her at first and outright hated her during You's Path. When I first played as Takeshi, Coco was prancing around doing childish stuff, but when I found out more about her I rolled my eyes, groaned, and thought "she's the loli character". Even in retrospect I'm not sure about the validity of that, but Coco's position as mediator of the group screamed "stock character" to me, though something happened that made me care about her just a tad more. Even then, I didn't like her and though her to be useless, though I couldn't help but have some compassion. Such sympathetic feelings were lost when I played You's Path and her presence threatened to ruin everything I had worked to hard to get through - after playing the game for so long only to get a Bad End, I was outright furious with Coco in You's Path, virtually beckoning my character to his death. Thankfully, none of that came to pass, but I still loathed Coco and wasn't exceptionally keen on playing her route, since it implied she would be the next romance.

All of that changed when I played her path. Coco got a lot more event graphics and she looked a whole lot more mature than she did prior to that - in fact, I got the impression of Furude Rika from Higurashi, who actually acts very childish but hides another, more adult persona named "Frederica Bernkastel". In this, I began to feel a bit more for Coco, since tragedies associated with children just strike me as superficial, whereas an adult who has undergone a tragedy is more "aware" so to say of the impact. It's like a child with no concept of death versus and adult experiencing it - such an event evokes more emotion from the adult.

Though there isn't really a whole lot to Coco, her few secrets did come out and they were quite amazing, but their place in the game was ambiguous for a while - and during this time, I managed to grow closer to Coco since a lot more time was focused with her than in Takeshi and Kid's routes. When everything came into place, I had totally purged myself of the disgust/hatred from the original routes and felt nothing but compassion for the girl - really, I grew to like her a lot, and though I still have a special place reserved for Sora and You, Coco kicked down Sara and Tsugumi to take third place. Heck, she might even tie You for second, and the both of them are really close to Sora - their paths were just that great.

...


Kuranari Takeshi - Souichiro Hoshi
A twenty year old college student, who came to LeMU with some friends to relax and have some fun. At one point he becomes separated from his comrades and gets involved in an event way over his head. Although an educated fellow, Takeshi is a bit slow in applying his knowledge and often ends up acting first rather than thinking problems through - though, his good nature and responsibility are admired by all the other people trapped in the water park. Takeshi is full of energy and enthusiasm, and he is rarely pessimistic about anything, though he is prone to irritation after a great deal of attrition.

...

Ahh, Takeshi. The hapless hero! He's a tad stubborn, but he's also very flexible and friendly, and eschews using violence for anything. He's also a very caring person, moreso than I would have believed for people he barely knew, and is concerned with getting everyone out of the facility alive. Frankly, Takeshi was an inspiration to me and I enjoyed playing as him, though his personality and mine aren't exactly congruent. He's the very kind of fellow I would love to have as a best friend, though, even if he's not the sharpest chisel in the shed (not to say he's an idiot, not at all. He's just not on the same level of amazing expertise Sora, Tsugumi, You, and Sara are. The Kid has an incredible learning curve as well, and no one faults Coco for not helping, so that just makes Takeshi the dumbest of the group, or rather, the most normal).

Takeshi is good friends with You (or rather, he becomes good friends with her), the Kid and Coco, while he pairs off with either Sora or Tsugumi. In his routes, Takeshi is characterized by dedication and heart, and he takes those ideals to the extreme, even to the point of kicking reason to the curb. In all of his routes, I classify him as 95% pure GAR, with about 5% for recklessness - the only other normal male lead I've seen recently deserving of the same praise is Yuuichi from Kanon. Suffice to say, Takeshi probably isn't as awesome as the Kid, since the Kid is a lot more capable than he is, but he made a bigger impact on me because of his personality.

...


Kid - ???
The Kid is a boy of unknown age, though he appears to be between fourteen and sixteen years old. He has no idea why he as LeMU, nor does he know about his past or even his own name. The other characters believe him to have trauma-induced amnesia, which plagues him for the duration of almost all scenarios. Because of his memory loss, the Kid is very frightened of his surroundings and withdrawn, though he opens up to the kindness of the other captives in LeMU. Takeshi names him "Kid" (shounen) for lack of a better temporary name.

...

Kid was the second protagonist I played, and one I suppose I liked just as much as Takeshi, though for different reasons - he's very self reflective and often indulges in philosophy regarding his loss of identity, asking questions to himself like "Who am I?" and "Who are you?". I would say this kind of thinking reflects his own personal nature, which isn't memory specific - he's a very clever, intelligent boy and demonstrates this many times over in the game. In fact, at first I thought I was replaying Takeshi's route from another person's perspective since the Kid seemed to recognize stuff that went on in Takeshi's route almost instinctively. However, the reasons for the Kid knowing this stuff were revealed to be his own unique perception, which I found to be pretty darn cool.

Of the two protagonists, I would say Kid is probably more important than Takeshi, but in a way that's fallacious. So I will say the Kid did more stuff than Takeshi did, even if the impact of what he did was less than Takeshi (though, Kid did a lot of really badarse stuff in his routes up through the ends, whereas Takeshi merely finished his routes with a bang) - Kid is also the central lead of Coco's Path, and continues to be awesome in it.

Among relationships with the characters, Kid is really attached to You and Coco in Takeshi's routes, and equally attached to You in his own route but has a solid relationship with Sara. He's not particularly close to Tsugumi in either route and respects Sora's age and maturity. He is also good friends with Takeshi, and Takeshi treats him like a little brother.

I should also note that while the Kid has a voice actor, that actor's identity is obscured for creative reasons to go alongside the character's "lost memory" theme.

- Music -

Among visual novels, the quality of music is usually very high, though there is one issue that seems to permeate across all of theme - the music isn't exactly recognizable. Say, for example, one could easily identify the Imperial March from Star Wars or the main theme from The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring, but one would have a far tougher time pinning down the theme of Minority Report or Ocean's 11. See what I mean? The music could be absolutely fantastic, but it would fall under the brand of "generic" in that people would not be able to pick out those themes from those that are more iconic.

Thus, I can say with great pride that Ever17 distinguishes itself from other visual novels by having very memorable music, such that almost every scenario has a theme that I could call up almost at will (or at least be able know the theme when playing). Compared with OMGWTFOTL and Fate/stay night,with only one or two such themes, Planetarian and Narcissu with one, composer Takeshi Abo has gifted the game with an incredible sound track, and one that I do not tire of listening to even though the themes recycle quite frequently.

These tracks, however, are not voiced, though that is not to say that there are not themes that are sung in the game - one song actually has lyrics but it is first heard without vocals in one route, then someone sings it in another route unaccompanied by music, and in Coco's Path both the voices and harmony are combined to the great surprise of the player. I wasn't playing much attention to the themes so when that union occurred, well, "surprise" would be an understatement - I was totally blown away.

The opening piece, "LeMU ~Far Away Continent of Lemuria" is a hauntingly beautiful melody performed by KAORI. It's juxstaposed on a cutscene that begins with a pan of the LeMU complex, following by brief profiles of the characters. It's the best opening theme of any visual novel I have scene, even when combined with the cutscene - that is saying a lot, given FSN had an animated opening and a great song, "This Illusion", to go along with it. I think the marriage of the music and the cutscene was much more appropriate than in FSN, or rather, I should say it would be hard to play another song against Ever17's opening, whereas it wouldn't be too much trouble to find a song that would fit the FSN animated openings just as much as "This Illusion".

Immediately after the cutscene concludes, the player is brought to the main menu, where a piano re-arrangement of "LeMU ~Far Away Continent of Lemuria~" set to a different scale and tempo, labeled as "Karma" in the tracklist, plays. When I first heard it, I immediately had some flashbacks to GaoGaiGar, where a simmilarly themed piece was introduced later in the series that was a variation on the opening, "Yuusha-Oh Tanjou". "Karma" is even more forlorn than the opening, though I should say how one reacts to it is entirely dependent on what one has experienced - on my initial play through, I felt nothing from the theme but gradually began to associate it with tragedy. Following my completion of the latter routes, it became a song of triumph, though I can still 'hear' tragedy in the soft piano keys.

Another song of note is the lyric of "Gedaechtnisschwund", which is the scariest arrangement in the entire soundtrack. It begins with an extremely soft piano, but gradually crescendos into a supernatural theme of impending doom. This song was so terrifying, after hearing it so many times my imagination actually started to layer the expectation of the crescendo on silence, meaning I could hear the song in my head even when I took my headphones off. That doesn't happen anymore, thankfully, but it was quite an experience to go to bed and have that tune clawing in my skull.

Ending the game in the final credit roll is a positively lovely song called "Aqua Plus", which, if I could put the emotional imprint of music into an image, would be "golden and joyful", and it was well earned after the long game. If it was not enough that the song was so euphoric, it was sung by Hiroko Kasahara, Sora's voice actress, who I consider to have gotten second class treatment compared with the other female leads. Allowing her to perform the final song, which applied quite well to her character, was just perfect. I was too busy cheering and proudly pounding my fist into the air to appreciate the majesty of the song originally, but I instantly fell in love with it and loved it more after each additional run through of the ending credits.

- Sound -

Sadly, I do not believe there is anything spectacular about the sound in Ever17. I cannot stress enough how good it is, especially compared with manga where sound effects exist only in the imagination and in anime where they are of dubious quality, but there's nothing particularly breathtaking about the sound effects or their usage. I was really impressed with Fate/stay night's use of ambience of high quality sound, and that same standard of excellence is emulated by this novel as well. Of course, Ever17 isn't purported to be innovative of daring in the sound department, unlike Higurashi, so I should say that it's of normal or average variety.

- Voice Acting -

Any normalcy in the sound department for a visual novel is utterly over-compensated by the ridiculously dynamic performances of the voice actors. Even more powerful than the music as far as "audio" goes, Ever17 would only be less than half as enjoyable if it were not voiced, since the voices themselves play an important role in the mystery of the game. The actors really gave it their all when performing - I heard a lot of heart coming from them, and most of the lines were flawless delivered. I doubt there was ever a moment when a voice was ill-fitting for a mood. Not to mention the sheer NUMBER of sound bytes, holy crack. Virtually all the lines in the novel not spoken by the player character were voiced, and I estimate there was so much dialogue the amount in Ever17 is comparable to Death Note the anime. Those familiar with DN's verbose writing style will testify that's a LOT of material, and I consider Ever17 a valid rival for it.

Though there were only a handful of voice actors, every one of them was a famous professional, with an extensive line of work preceding and following the title. I've already named all the voice actors/actresses above, but one wouldn't really know much about them until I start naming off roles they've played. In example, Noriko Shitaya, the voice of You, is Sakura from Fate/stay night. Yuu Asakawa is Rider. Kana Ueda is Rin Tohsaka. Takeshi's actor, Souichiro Hoshi, is Maebara Keiichi from Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni. Hiroko Kasahara and Hisayo Mochizuki haven't had nearly as many roles, but I think as a result of this they put a lot more effort into their roles - I think Takeshi had some of the best acting (I was particularly impressed with him), followed by Sora and Coco, with Tsugumi and You following. Sara wasn't bad, there just wasn't a lot of room to pump emotion into the character. Still, all the actresses did a fine job of singing, if and when they did sing. Simply fantastic job.

- Themes -

There are a number of themes in Ever17 that permeate the novel and the "infinity" series as a whole. Almost obviously, the theme of "infinity" plays an important role - the player is reminded at the end of each successfully finished scenario (for good or ill) that "you are in the infinity loop", implying there's more to do in the game. Of course, this also has a double meaning that isn't revealed until far later, and even then, I suspect the idea continues on through the other KID titles as well.

Romance is quite possibly the weakest peg of the whole story - sure, I found the romance to be quite satisfying (on the whole), but given the exceptionally short timeframe (seven days), most folks were skeptical that it could work. Of course, I'm one for the "Florence Nightingale" syndrome, that people in traumatic situations have a far higher propensity to fall in love with one another, thus negating the normally staggered period of time before a relationship forms. Of course, what is done in Ever17 is written very well, but it wasn't originally the focus of the story. Even saying this, Ever17 is one of the best romance stories I have ever heard, and as of this writing I'm about halfway through Kanon and haven't been as touched as in Ever17 - I'm a tad proud of Ever17 holding out against that legendary visual novel's anime, though I seriously doubt it'll be able to top Clannad if what people say about is true.

Science fiction plays a powerful card in Ever17, though it has a flavour of familiarity. If any of you folk have visited theme parks like "Six Flags Marine World", LeMU should feel right at home (I spent every weekend at Marine World in my Junior High days, so LeMU felt almost like a different, but old friend). There is futuristic technology and engineering in LeMU alongside stuff like, oh, candy and chicken sandwiches. Technology isn't the only issue that has been gone over, though - apparently, our timeline and that of Ever17 differed in the 1980's. The world ended up a lot more progressive, presumably did something with global warming, and on the whole is a whole lot nicer place, though there are some odd laws in effect.

On the science note, I should also say that physics and biology play an important role in the game as well - because of the grave situation the characters are in, it is imperative for the safety of the main characters for them to understand exactly what caused and what will happen to the LeMU superstructure, often resulting in lengthy discussions of the mechanics of the place. Frankly, despite my age and education I was quite intimidated by how everyone else applied their knowledge. In this, Takeshi and I were one in the same - he was frequently just as lost as I was! It was quite humiliating to ask Sora to put the details of the structure into a simple metaphor for me to understand since I was too dense to get the explanation the first time (she didn't like that) - Kid was much sharper though, and I got the hang of the stuff by the time I played him. Medicine and the importance of it play a subservient role to physics for the science focus, but they are importance nonetheless.

Comedy, comedy. Remember when I said romance was possibly the weakest link? I still affirm that, but only because romance is one of the major attractions of the game - one isn't playing Ever17 for comedy, though it is there, and it is quite touching. The laughs aren't really out of exaggerations or anything like that in shounen or shoujo, but rather the interactions of the characters with one another, like how a group of friends would joke with one another. Some of the funny moments are grounted grounded with a serious explanation - in example, the Kid is very frightened of his surroundings because he can't remember anything, so he's very trusting of his companions and often takes stuff literally, to great comic effect. He's funny in a cute way, but his reasons for behaving that way are quite serious. The same goes for Sora and You, though I should note Takeshi and You are the clowns of Ever17, often emotionally reacting to stuff (and each other) in over the top ways.

Another important theme in Ever17 is the role of philosophy and mythology, and how they draw parallels with the game. Characters often speak in riddles, both knowingly and unknowingly, and these riddles are usually told metaphorically, either through a story or through an analogy. The stories are perhaps the easiest to get, whereas among the analogies there are some very abstract ones that had to be explained to me (notably involving rings) - the philosophy plays an important role in You's route and minor one in Sora's, though more toward the former. This is because the philosophy defines You as a person (as players will discover), and Sora is just curious about a number of ideas and issues. I should note that most of the mythology is Japanese in origin, and the localizers (unnecessarily, in my view) substituted one of the tales for a Western one, which can be a source of confusion.

Ultimately, the core theme of the philosophy section of the novel would be the role of belief, particularly "believe in me who believes in you". To survive, the characters need to believe, trust, and rely on one another, and that belief must be mutual. This point is especially driven home in Coco's Path, where the player learns just how important and powerful it is.

Ever17's strong point is the mystery/suspense angle, which is positively unbelievable in how the game is layered. Every puzzle piece fits perfectly, the number of deceptions and twists (good twists, I might add) are amazing. Even the most ambiguous and trivial bit of information would come into use later in the game, even BEFORE Coco's Path which spilled all the beans - information from some routes explain occurences in other ones. I went in the game expecting a challenge and only got a handful of puzzles myself, not doubt because as I've grown I've developed tunnel vision and it was hard to conceive of some of the plot points. Of course, that just made them all the more incredible and exciting. Discovering the secrets of LeMU itself are the less impressive of the twists - everything about the characters is far, far more interesting. I will say this hear and now - before the game, I thought to myself, "writers wouldn't write something useless" and considered everything in the game said to be important. THIS IS AN ESSENTIAL MINDSET TO HAVE when playing the game - everything has a purpose, and one needs to reflect on the meaning of certain words, ideas and the like. They've all got a place in the story.

- Artwork -

Graphically, Ever17 is one of the better visual novels I have seen. As typical of most novels, they're of extremely high art quality, since the artwork is drawn on a computer and is truly "digital", unlike the anime we see or the manga we read. As such, it's very bright and vibrant, conveying the look of a true 'video' game even though the 'game' is more akin to a story. Of the professional groups, I would say KID's artwork is probably the best with the exception of the folks who do Shuffle - of my complex of games, it is superior to FSN, OMGWTFOTL, and Narcissu, but around the detail of Planetarian.

Ever17's artwork, expectably, consists of 'sprites' in different poses layered over a fixed background. There are one or two cutscenes as well depicting rushing water, but they have not aged as well as the rest of the artwork - the CGI appears quite dated. It should also be noted that I consider the "normal" graphics, which comprise the vast majority of the game, are of lower quality than the "event" screen artwork, who is done by a different artist. For example, at first I didn't think Sora was a very good looking character from her front view, but she looked great from profile shots - in the same way, You looked weird in her profile with her mouth open. Takeshi's design is positively weird - his hair clashes with his clothes, and it seems eerily unnatural (a silly thing to point out in a visual novel, but hey, Coco does the pink hair deal pretty well).

The "event" artwork is positively gorgeous, though - everyone looks great and they are exceptionally detailed, almost like portrait paintings that also happen to move slightly. Characters that I felt needed a facelift in parts of the game looked stunning in the event graphics, especially Sora and Takeshi.

- Overall -

My interest in the novel was entirely the credit of Yotsuba, who has a small, but agreeable fan-base dedicated to the novel there - with one notable exception, they were very courteous to me regarding spoilers and answered my questions with great enthusiasm. Prior to getting involved with the invisible Ever17 crowd, though, I had largely ignored the novel until after I finished FSN - I was cleaning up lurk's entries on various memes and terms and came across Ever17, which I remembered played a role in the early parts of SaiGar since a couple characters were nominated. I had read the entry before but forgotten it, and after re-reading it I thought the game would be worth a download. My primary motivation was to learn who/what is "Blick Winkel", and how it connected the plot - suffice to say, I did learn, and never in my wildest dreams would I been able to figure it out on my own before-hand. Suffice to say, that plot twist was the crown that, in my view, made Ever17 the most royal of all visual novels in English today. The game was already far superior to anything I had previously read by that point, but when I discovered Blick the game reached godly status. I can only fault KID on one issue, and that is the non "event" graphic artwork, but any other criticism, as little as there is, lies with Hirameki. Rather, it almost feels like I'm looking for an excuse to not give this game perfect marks - no other novel can touch it.

Again I say, with absolute certainty, that this is the best Japanese media I have ever experienced in my entire life, the best complex mystery/suspense story ever (though I'm sure some real classic detective fiction will trounce this game), one of the better if not best romance stories, and one of the best games I have ever played. Quite frankly, finishing this game was one of the most cathartic events of my whole life, I felt as if a whole lot of negative pollution just got flooded away with the ending credits. Simply, purely, wonderous.

As far as visual novels go that I have played, my relative scoring is as follow (/10.0):

Narcissu 8.2
Fate/stay night: Fate 7.4
Ever17 ―the out of infinity― 9.7
OMGWTFOTL 1.6
Planetarian 8.0

People who I would VERY HIGHLY RECOMMEND this title to: big bad birtha, Arizona Talon
People who I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND this title to: PiccoloNamek
People who I would RECOMMEND this title to: Kasumi Violet, Big Pimp Krillin

[center:cdb92]http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9351/post011il0.jpg
Ever17 ―the out of infinity―
★★★★★
FIVE STARS[/center:cdb92]

[PiccoloNamek]

Why would you highly recommend this to me? You know I don't play these types of games.

[Doppleganger]

I didn't, actually. My reasoning is based on what you've seen in the past and liked - from that, I made the inference that you would like it a lot. Same goes for Kasumi Violet - if she liked Narcissu, she'll probably enjoy Ever17.

[PiccoloNamek]

Well, I've never played any of these games, nor do I plan to; something tells me I probably wouldn't enjoy it... perhaps if they stripped all of the romance elements out, maybe I'd play it. Maybe.

[Doppleganger]

There's nothing explicit, if that's what worries you. I myself tend to avoid games like that and it's one of the reasons I rate Ever17 so highly. Still, while the romance is secondary to the mystery/suspense, it still is a driving theme in the game. Aside from explicit content, why would you dislike the romance in such a game like this?

[PiccoloNamek]

There's nothing explicit, if that's what worries you. I myself tend to avoid games like that and it's one of the reasons I rate Ever17 so highly. Still, while the romance is secondary to the mystery/suspense, it still is a driving theme in the game. Aside from explicit content, why would you dislike the romance in such a game like this?


Nothing explicit, huh? Nothing? That's different, then. Still, romance is depressing to me for a number of reasons which I won't get in to now. The fact that you have a certain level of control within the game, combined with not only visual but audio representations of the characters (and music, too) leads to an experience that would be more emotional than say, a book, or even a movie. This is something I want to avoid, because I prefer to remain, to an extent, uninvolved while experiencing a story. I suppose this is a coping mechanism to protect myself from any potentially unpleasant emotions.

Even so, if what you say is true, I might put this on my "might play some time in the indeterminate future" list.

[big bad birtha]

I was already considering playing this, but from what you said, I will get to it faster than I thought. I don't know if I will find it as amazing as you did, or if I'll find it more amazing than you did, but we'll see. I will probably just buy it instead of torrenting it, but since I am running low on money, I will have to wait a bit for ordering it (I will most likely order it when I order the next Haruhi DVD).

(NOTE: Did not read into the plot or the characters because I don't want to risk getting spoilered.)

[Doppleganger]

The fact that you have a certain level of control within the game, combined with not only visual but audio representations of the characters (and music, too) leads to an experience that would be more emotional than say, a book, or even a movie. This is something I want to avoid, because I prefer to remain, to an extent, uninvolved while experiencing a story. I suppose this is a coping mechanism to protect myself from any potentially unpleasant emotions.


On control, there's something I want to talk about but cannot for fear of revealing something important, but I will say the degree of emotional stress varies depending on path. In the end, though, no matter how ill-feeling one becomes, everything comes out pretty darn well. Not completely to my satisfaction, of course, but well enough.


Even so, if what you say is true, I might put this on my "might play some time in the indeterminate future" list.


Ahh, 'tis good to hear. You probably won't take me up on this suggestion anytime soon, but after writing that large post a non-committal answer is a minimum. :p


I was already considering playing this, but from what you said, I will get to it faster than I thought. I don't know if I will find it as amazing as you did, or if I'll find it more amazing than you did, but we'll see. I will probably just buy it instead of torrenting it, but since I am running low on money, I will have to wait a bit for ordering it (I will most likely order it when I order the next Haruhi DVD).


I'm really torn as to what to suggest for this game. Personally, I liked it so much I will buy it (even though there's no proof patch) and pledged to myself I would not pirate another Hirameki game in my lifetime out of respect for the company. I'm not ashamed pirating Ever17 since if I hadn't, I wouldn't have known how great the game was, but at the same time I don't know how to advise other people on getting the game.

My only advice would be to get this game as soon as possible, and if that means ends up being a torrent, buy it in the end - it's well worth your time and money for it.


(NOTE: Did not read into the plot or the characters because I don't want to risk getting spoilered.)


If/when you do get the game, feel free to field any questions here, since after that nasty incident with the Russian I'm very concerned with keeping the game's mystique intact for everyone here. I took great amends to make sure little of what I typed up in my review was even border-line spoilers, and even if I said something that a game player would recognize, someone who hasn't played the game wouldn't make the connection.

[big bad birtha]

I'm really torn as to what to suggest for this game. Personally, I liked it so much I will buy it (even though there's no proof patch) and pledged to myself I would not pirate another Hirameki game in my lifetime out of respect for the company. I'm not ashamed pirating Ever17 since if I hadn't, I wouldn't have known how great the game was, but at the same time I don't know how to advise other people on getting the game.

My only advice would be to get this game as soon as possible, and if that means ends up being a torrent, buy it in the end - it's well worth your time and money for it.


I think it might be faster to buy it anyway. The torrent has no seeders, meaning that it is downloading at 0kb/s -_-;. I am reluctant to buy it, because I think my piece of **** computer might not be able to play it, but I guess it will be worth the risk.


If/when you do get the game, feel free to field any questions here, since after that nasty incident with the Russian I'm very concerned with keeping the game's mystique intact for everyone here. I took great amends to make sure little of what I typed up in my review was even border-line spoilers, and even if I said something that a game player would recognize, someone who hasn't played the game wouldn't make the connection.


Oh, if that is the case, then I will take some more time to read the plot and the characters. I'm sure I won't know what the hell you are talking about, but I will try to understand when the time comes for me to play it.

[Doppleganger]

I think it might be faster to buy it anyway. The torrent has no seeders, meaning that it is downloading at 0kb/s -_-;. I am reluctant to buy it, because I think my piece of **** computer might not be able to play it, but I guess it will be worth the risk.


That's my fault, most likely. When I went to Hirameki's main website to see where I could buy the game, I went to the messageboards and some idiot had spammed links on how to pirate the Hirameki games and provided a quick walkthrough on how to set up the emulation. Well...I might be a hypocrite, having pirated the game myself, but something about taking the torrent links above ground irked me so I reported the spam to the Hirameki forum administrator. They shut down the website to purge it of those links and are most likely going to look around for ways to shut down the torrents.

I still have my original file on a DVD somewhere, though, so if you need a seed badly I'll be able to help you out. It'll have to be later tonight, though, since I put off writing my political essay and doing my econ work all yesterday. ^^;


Oh, if that is the case, then I will take some more time to read the plot and the characters. I'm sure I won't know what the hell you are talking about, but I will try to understand when the time comes for me to play it.


Eh? EHH?! No no no no! Do NOT do this! I've looked around quite a bit and even parts Hirameki's main website is very careless with spoilers! What I've written above is fine and has been quadruple checked by me, but spoilers are literally lurking around looking to stab you in the foot! Under no circumstances must you visit websites like Wikipedia or Yotsuba looking for info - ESPECIALLY Wikipedia, I went there as fast as I could to clean up the article just in case you went there looking for data.

[Talon87]

So we can read it? :? *has not read it yet -- any of it bar your points system at the very bottom -- because people mentioned spoilers*

By the way, it's probably to do with just finishing Harry Potter Book 7, but your last post sounded so much like Hermione Granger to me. :)

[Doppleganger]

So we can read it? :? *has not read it yet -- any of it bar your points system at the very bottom -- because people mentioned spoilers*


Yes. Part of the reason it took me so long to write the review was I was always going back and checking for spoilers, any possible slip-up that might permit an inquisitive reader to make a connection prior to playing the game. All of the character summaries are based off of the Hirameki ones, though I substituted facts I felt were dangerous with more mundane facts. In the entire post, there's only one possible point that could be a spoiler, and that is the name I mentioned in the first paragraph of the "Overall" section, but said name is shown in the opening cutscene so aside from saying "it's important" nothing was given away.

Now that I've gone over the post again, there is something that could have potential for trouble, but is very vague and should not be a problem. Folks who have completed the game might take notice of it, though. It is unrelated to any of the subsections.


By the way, it's probably to do with just finishing Harry Potter Book 7, but your last post sounded so much like Hermione Granger to me. :)


Somehow, I'm not surprised that post came out a bit nanny-like. I panicked when I read BBB's passage and my mind flashed an image of Ayu about to step into a highway and get hit by a spoiler dump-truck. :x

[Talon87]

Tell you what, I'll read yours if you'll read mine.

*begins to read Doppel's long thread, which Talon can tell he's really invested his heart into, and will take it very seriously ... but he hopes that Doppel will return the favor for Talon's Harry Potter rant, which is far less emotional to him and also less lengthy, but still long enough to win many a tl;dr award at 4chan*

[big bad birtha]

Eh? EHH?! No no no no! Do NOT do this! I've looked around quite a bit and even parts Hirameki's main website is very careless with spoilers! What I've written above is fine and has been quadruple checked by me, but spoilers are literally lurking around looking to stab you in the foot! Under no circumstances must you visit websites like Wikipedia or Yotsuba looking for info - ESPECIALLY Wikipedia, I went there as fast as I could to clean up the article just in case you went there looking for data.


Umm.....Let me rephrase that. I think I will read the characters and the plot that you put down. Just so you know, I NEVER read the plot or characters on anything unless I am sure it has no spoilers.

[Doppleganger]

Tell you what, I'll read yours if you'll read mine.


Great minds think alike!


Umm.....Let me rephrase that. I think I will read the characters and the plot that you put down. Just so you know, I NEVER read the plot or characters on anything unless I am sure it has no spoilers.


Oh thank heavens. :D

[Talon87]

Okay. Thoughts:

Having not yet played the game, I don't have too much to say. I probably read about 90% of your sentences (skimmed quite a bit around where the music section is; including that section itself, you were starting to go on and on, chap, about stuff I don't really care about when I haven't yet played the game myself!), but considering how much you wrote, I don't think it's too much of a crime. 'specially not since I read all of the major stuff.[/*:m:027c9]
Dude ... you get me all excited to play this game, and I have med school in 13 days. I still have a ton of Naruto to get through, and I also have to start reading some med books to prepare. wtf -.- plus :lol: plus don't worry about it 8)[/*:m:027c9]
Dude ... you get me all excited to play this game, and you don't even offer me a chance to acquire it within reason!? :x "Only 2000 copies ever sold." "I refuse to help you guys find the torrent." "Oh, did I mention that I *KILLED* the torrents that exist by drawing their attention to Hirameki?" What the fuck, dude. What the fuck. XD plus :lol: plus a little bit of :|[/*:m:027c9]
Dude, you *know* I'm going to go for that girl with the long dark hair. XD Dammit that she's the hardest one to get. If I fail getting her, I'll try to go for the lady who looks like she has the best chance of being "an adult woman with an adult body."[/*:m:027c9]

I'll look into acquiring it later tonight in English. If I can't find it within a few hours, I'll have to move on to trying to find it raw, but I know, just based on what you've described, that there is NO WAY I will be able to handle it raw. :| So ... here's hoping I can find it in English. BBB, if you find it, let me know. I'll do the same for you, since this guy *jerks his thumb at Doppel* won't help us. :P

[Talon87]

BBB, I believe I may have found a working solution. I will be trying it out shortly, after downloading Episodes 24 and 25 of Code Geass.

Ever 17 on the most Mini of Novae (http://www.mininova.org/tor/390017) ... not sure what the Latin plural is of "nova", actually :x , oh well

Doppel ... let us try and get this before you hand it over to the Hirameki Police Squad. :| Please. :|

[Doppleganger]

Dude ... you get me all excited to play this game, and you don't even offer me a chance to acquire it within reason!? :x "Only 2000 copies ever sold." "I refuse to help you guys find the torrent." "Oh, did I mention that I *KILLED* the torrents that exist by drawing their attention to Hirameki?" What the fuck, dude. What the fuck. XD plus :lol: plus a little bit of :|


Well, as I said, something about making information on were to find the torrent "public" like that made me uncomfortable. Perhaps I was afraid of what happened to insani who did a commercial translation for Planetarian but found out no one was willing to purchase the game because of the expense and relatively short download time for the torrent.

Even then, I'm copying my original from a DVD as we speak so I'll seed whatever torrent you decided to pick out.


Dude, you *know* I'm going to go for that girl with the long dark hair. XD Dammit that she's the hardest one to get. If I fail getting her, I'll try to go for the lady who looks like she has the best chance of being "an adult woman with an adult body."


I figured you would like Tsugumi - I think everyone goes into the game thinking, "man, she's pretty, I better seduce her first" but then they end up on the Bad End. Luckily for Talon, most of the girls in this game end up with long hair in the end, except for Coco - you should be quite impressed with the endings.


I'll look into acquiring it later tonight in English. If I can't find it within a few hours, I'll have to move on to trying to find it raw, but I know, just based on what you've described, that there is NO WAY I will be able to handle it raw. :| So ... here's hoping I can find it in English. BBB, if you find it, let me know. I'll do the same for you, since this guy *jerks his thumb at Doppel* won't help us. :P


Since the game is voiced, you should be able to pick up on some of the clues that were changed by the localizers - more information comes from the original source, especially in the case of a certain puzzle involving Japanese characters. Pay attention to that one! Also, "mermaids > dwarves". Keep that one in mind for Coco's Path.


Doppel ... let us try and get this before you hand it over to the Hirameki Police Squad. :| Please. :|


I only reported the torrent because some idiot was spamming Hirameki's own messageboard with it. In any matter, though, I'll seed that.

...

Seeding commencing.

[Talon87]

I dunno about dwarves, but in Japanese mythology, mermaids have a hell of a lot more in common with those in Harry Potter than those in Disney films. If there are any mermaids in this game, scary. 8O Run like hell, shoot it if it moves, and pray you don't get eaten.

Edit: Just started downloading. Disappointed, because it started off at 80 kbps and said "ETA: 20 hours" but then plummeted down to 30 kbps. :x Currently working its way back up, looks like it's at 41 kbps right now ...

[big bad birtha]

BBB, I believe I may have found a working solution. I will be trying it out shortly, after downloading Episodes 24 and 25 of Code Geass.

Ever 17 on the most Mini of Novae (http://www.mininova.org/tor/390017) ... not sure what the Latin plural is of "nova", actually :x , oh well

Doppel ... let us try and get this before you hand it over to the Hirameki Police Squad. :| Please. :|


Thanks Suigin. I apologize that I couldn't help with the search, but I just got home from work, so I have been away from the computer =/. Anyway, I have downloaded the torrent, and it will take awhile to download because it is downloading at 3kb/s -_-.

Anyway, I still haven't read the characters and plot, but I will after I take a rest because I am pretty tired right now. I know you put your loins into it, and I am more than obliged to read it (hell, I would want at least someone to read the super long Kanon speeches I made). I will say my opinion of the storyline and the character I will go after, when I read it.

[Doppleganger]

I do intend to read all of your Kanon comments, but I will not be completing the series until Friday at earliest, since this is finals week for summer school and I've got a lot of stuff to catch up on today.

My computer will be on for most of the night as I finish the remaining Kanon files and write my essay, so I'll be able to seed for something like the next seven hours.


I dunno about dwarves, but in Japanese mythology, mermaids have a hell of a lot more in common with those in Harry Potter than those in Disney films. If there are any mermaids in this game, scary. 8O Run like hell, shoot it if it moves, and pray you don't get eaten.


By that I mean something about mermaids was switched to something about dwarves - you'll recognize it when you see it, since it makes less sense than keeping the original myth. However, the original myth is still explained through the audio, so when you see the dwarf issue just ignore the text and listen to the narration. It'll be a lot less confusing.

[Talon87]

You're my hero if you do. I keep oscillating between high speeds and low ones, but when it's high, it says "DL: ~120 kbps" and "ETA: 6 hours 50-some minutes." I'm betting that you're probably the guy I have to thank for all the high upload (87.96.192.161 is my knight in shining armor, as he accounts for 50+ kbps of my 120 I keep getting), and if you stay on for seven hours, I should be able to nigh-on get the entire file. Since I'm leaving my machine on overnight (most likely), it'll work out for BBB too, especially if I can find out which IP address is his. Now to see if you're my hero or not (UPN IP check, hope you don't mind if I sneak a peek up your skirt :oops: ) ...

EDIT: Nope, you're not. :x You're my silver medalist, uploading to me consistently at ~15 to 20 kbps. IP of 76.197.0.93

EDIT 2: Oh no. :x Now you plummeted down to only 8 kbps. :cry: You're cutting me loose, Doppel! :cry:

j/k, I know you can't control how the tracker sorts your bandwidth out. Oh well. ^_^;

[big bad birtha]

I do intend to read all of your Kanon comments, but I will not be completing the series until Friday at earliest, since this is finals week for summer school and I've got a lot of stuff to catch up on today.


Eh?.......Umm....I was referring to the ones I made a long time ago. You know, like that EFZ game review that was almost as long as your review on this game. It doesn't matter, since I think Suigin did anyway (well, he responded to something from the creamy center, so I just assumed it....). What I said was only an example. I really don't care now.

Son of a bitch torrent! 12kb/s and it pretty much stays there. 5 god damn days before it finishes, and I am not even sure my ****ty computer will play it ><.

[Talon87]

Update:
- 22.4% complete
- 89 kbps DL
- 47 kbps UL (seems to be my ISP's limit, it was the exact same speed for Geass 24+25)
- ETA: 6h 22m

I plan to leave the computer on overnight, though it is rather noisy, so if you see me go offline, guys, it's not because I'm going back on my word but has more to do with me cutting power so I can get some shuteye. Hopefully it'll be done by the time I wake up tomorrow; also, hopefully BBB will have made some progress. :| I hope for your sake you're at least at 15% by now. :cry: My condolences if you're not.

[Doppleganger]

Note: I forgot my main PC works again. Wait about twenty minutes and I'll have another seed up for both of you.


Eh?.......Umm....I was referring to the ones I made a long time ago. You know, like that EFZ game review that was almost as long as your review on this game. It doesn't matter, since I think Suigin did anyway (well, he responded to something from the creamy center, so I just assumed it....). What I said was only an example. I really don't care now.


Those are the ones I am referring to. Don't think that just because I'm late to the party doesn't mean I won't sip your half-empty glasses of wine. :p


Son of a bitch torrent! 12kb/s and it pretty much stays there. 5 god damn days before it finishes, and I am not even sure my ****ty computer will play it ><.


<-doesn't really understand the complaints behind the download speed. I get most of my downloads at 1.5kb/s, getting eight times that would be a blessing.

[Talon87]

Note: I forgot my main PC works again. Wait about twenty minutes and I'll have another seed up for both of you.
Do that and you'll be cutting your bandwidth in half between the machines. Since most bittorrent clients default you to seeding multiple leechers at once anyway, chances are, you're already seeding me and BBB on the one machine and if you divvy your bandwidth up between two computers we'll see no net change in our speeds but you'll see that your UL speed is half of what it used to be on that first machine.

a.k.a. do it if you want, but I don't think it will help us or hurt us

[big bad birtha]

Those are the ones I am referring to. Don't think that just because I'm late to the party doesn't mean I won't sip your half-empty glasses of wine. :p


*doesn't understand what you mean by half-empty, but has a general idea* Anyway, if it is what I think (I think it pretty much means half-assed) then you are correct my good sir. I wanted to say alot more, but I hate it when there's a massive comment that makes the page load up soooooo much slower, so I briefed it as much as I could stand to. My computer is running better, so it doesn't matter now.


<-doesn't really understand the complaints behind the download speed. I get most of my downloads at 1.5kb/s, getting eight times that would be a blessing.


Why in the blue hell do you use torrents then? I couldn't stand to take like a day downloading an anime episode just to watch 23 minutes. Since it takes so long, I m i l k anime episodes.

Also, my torrent is like at 2.3% =/. It won't hit 15 until tomorrow afternoon. Well, it sometimes goes faster after I leave the computer, and I am hoping for that speed. There are times when it goes at 36, but that is only when my computer is behaving like a good little boy.

[Talon87]

Looks like living in residential Indiana has finally paid off. :lol:

Nah, I learned to not be surprised about this three years ago when I had my first experience with (lightning fast) Hoosier cable Internet after hooking up in my apartment. I think it has something to do with the fact that our cable companies are (a) numerous relative to the number of households in Indiana; (b) servicing very few Hoosiers with cable Internet since so many either lack home Internet, use AOL still, or were fooled into signing up for AT&T's DSL service; and (c) I lived in a college-town apartment at Purdue and I now live at home in an area that is like 50% senior citizens who don't even have PCs. In other words ... I think I get to hog the local line (that goes from our neighborhood to the branch office God knows where) all to myself, and I think said branch office gets a pretty big berth of bandwidth.

Oh well. All I can say is, Doppel has no reason to be downloading at less than 2kbps (I did better than that when I was using BitTornado on the old family computer w/ an AOL 56k connection!), and SoCal probably has really crappy domestic Internet service. :|

[Doppleganger]

Anyway, if it is what I think (I think it pretty much means half-assed) then you are correct my good sir


Err, no, I do not mean to imply what you wrote was half-arsed. Just, you and those who watched Kanon before me had a party and already poured wine for yourselves, but since I'm late and there's no fresh wine available I'll just help myself to what you already poured.


Why in the blue hell do you use torrents then? I couldn't stand to take like a day downloading an anime episode just to watch 23 minutes. Since it takes so long, I m i l k anime episodes.


Can't find most stuff on direct download or IRC. Lurk Moar has everything I need for manga, but there's no large direct download site for older anime, and most of my sources dry up anyway. I don't really mind waiting so long for Kanon to download since I've grown accustom to the long waits, but when I was getting GaoGaiGar it was unbearable.

[Talon87]

Can't sleep, PSU is too fucking noisy. >> Shutting down for the night, praying I hit at least 30 kbps down tomorrow when I wake up, seeing as (with Doppel and the top seeder out) I'll be missing 30 kbps of my 80 kbps I was just enjoying now right there. :|

[big bad birtha]

Alright, I just finished reading the plot and characters and I have to say that I am looking forward to it. All of the characters seem to be quite charming. I honestly don't know which one I will like the best. Sora, You, Coco, and Sara all seem to have great potential for a great and touching story, which will bring me to tears.

Also......13.9%......damn -_-;

[Talon87]

Ha ha ha ha :) , the one girl I'm most excited about is the one girl left out of BBB's list. Awesome. :lol: ;)

BBB, you can have Coco. (Who I predict will be a psychopathic killer-type, anyway. :P) I'll take the ~tsun tsun~ all to myself and try (desperately) to win her heart.

Doppel, what do you think my chances are for winning her over the very first time I play? i.e. (without spoiling particulars) do you think a first-timer can do it and you just screwed something up? or do you know for a fact that the only way to win her heart requires previous knowledge of the game's story arcs by playing through various other people's paths?

[Doppleganger]

Doppel, what do you think my chances are for winning her over the very first time I play? i.e. (without spoiling particulars) do you think a first-timer can do it and you just screwed something up? or do you know for a fact that the only way to win her heart requires previous knowledge of the game's story arcs by playing through various other people's paths?


Tsugumi's tolerance for error is ridiculously small, as in, one or two decisions against her will put you on the Bad End. My own position on the game is to play faithful to one's character, id est, how would Doppleganger act/decide if he was in Takeshi's shoes. Unfortunately, my own decisions lead to my own death, but I cannot complain - I got a lot out of playing "as myself" so to say.

[Talon87]

That's a good point ... I did that in Tactics Ogre: the Knight of Lodis for the GBA and (lo and behold) my honest answers to the question at the beginning of the game were the 1-in-64 permutation needed to be able to get one of the coolest characters in the game to join your team (because he dies in Story Mode otherwise) *and* to have the father-and-daughter mage combo that you meet later on in the game. So, like, my save file for that game is right before the final fight with Satan and I have every character it is possible to get in the game on my team, including an awesome Lich.

But then again, there was no way I could do that for Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. D: I had to have Pikachu be me and have Chikorita be my companion. When I answered the questions honestly, it made me either be Squirtle or Bulbasaur. (Bulbasaur, cool, but I didn't want two grass Pokemon. Squirtle, no way. :x)

I know we split the thread, but ... current download progress is at 59.7% and it says I have an ETA of ~5 hours. Sort of sucks, because one hour ago, it told me ~5 hours left, too. :x Oh well. I'm happy that at least I'm downloading at ~60 kbps right now instead of the ~20 kbps I was getting at 10:30. :x

I ... will probably take your suggestion. :x :oops: :) I'll play Takeshi as if he is me, and so I'll let the cards fall as they will. But me (the real me) would totally try to get ~Tsun Tsun~ to like him. So I'll just pursue her the way I'd really pursue her. And if she beats me off with a baseball bat, then I'll know I failed.

By the way ... if I fail to get the girl I want, and it's like Day 3 or 4, I can still go after another girl, right? Or am I already going to get the Bad End for that first girl? I'm asking because you said "nothing's set in stone until around Day 6 or 7," but you also have told me that I can 100% guarantee myself that if I piss the dark-haired girl off more than once, I'll lose any chance to wind up with her. a.k.a. if I catch myself screwing up twice or more, and I can, I ought to switch tactics and try to start wooing another girl, right?

[big bad birtha]

Ha ha ha ha :) , the one girl I'm most excited about is the one girl left out of BBB's list. Awesome. :lol: ;)

BBB, you can have Coco. (Who I predict will be a psychopathic killer-type, anyway. :P) I'll take the ~tsun tsun~ all to myself and try (desperately) to win her heart.


Tsugumi just seems like a pain in the ass. From her personality, it brings a great potential for a nice romantic development, but she just might end up pissing me off. Everyone else has some very charming personality traits.

Also, Coco doesn't seem that bad. I'm sure her path will be very very heartwarming.

[Talon87]

Until she reveals that she's the mermaid (err, dwarf :)) who LeMU has genetically engineered in their hi-tech oceanic laboratory and she's HERE TO KILL YOU!

Dude. It's always the loli. Always. :P I'll eat my hat if Coco is completely harmless.

[Doppleganger]

By the way ... if I fail to get the girl I want, and it's like Day 3 or 4, I can still go after another girl, right? Or am I already going to get the Bad End for that first girl? I'm asking because you said "nothing's set in stone until around Day 6 or 7," but you also have told me that I can 100% guarantee myself that if I piss the dark-haired girl off more than once, I'll lose any chance to wind up with her. a.k.a. if I catch myself screwing up twice or more, and I can, I ought to switch tactics and try to start wooing another girl, right?


Depends on the character. For Takeshi, Sora is more forgiving than Tsugumi and you could probably re-route from a Tsugumi Path to a Sora Path pretty easily. The "Bad End" is pretty much either Sora or Tsugumi's Path (has events from both) with a different conclusion. I have a special name for the Bad End but I shall not say it for fear of giving away what happens. All I will say is, I think the Takeshi Bad End was the most "believable" ending in the whole game.

For the Kid, the Bad Ends don't require pro-points to reach, they're the product of a poor decision at a late stage in the game. I'd say one defaults to You's Path during Kid's route, but if one goes for Sara it'll take about a day longer to dock onto her path though it's not impossible to go back to You.

Also, the quicksaves tell a story. When one isn't on someone's path, the quicksaves say "Takeshi - this event" or "Kid - that event". When on someone's path, they say "Takeshi/Sora - this event" or "Kid/You - that event". Bad Ends will occur for Kid on Kid/You or Kid/Sara, while the Bad End occurs for Takeshi when his saves just say "Takeshi".


Tsugumi just seems like a pain in the ass. From her personality, it brings a great potential for a nice romantic development, but she just might end up pissing me off. Everyone else has some very charming personality traits.


You'll love Tsugumi, I guarantee it. I only dislike her because:

1. I spent a fudgeload of time trying to get onto her path.
2. I liked Sora better and Tsugumi 'haet' Sora.
3. Sora's fate in Coco's Path was unsatisfying to me.


Also, Coco doesn't seem that bad. I'm sure her path will be very very heartwarming.


You'll probably be as surprised as moved. I myself got the t-shirt (http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4601/e17shirtyv5.png).

[Talon87]

Okay, I just got to the fork in the road where you have to choose. I was more interested in Kid's history, so I clicked on "Who am I?", but when I realized what I had done, I thought, "Hmm ... Takeshi probably has the best chance of winding up with You, Sara, and Tsugumi. The three girls I like best. Kid has the best chance of winding up with You, who is awesome, but his other two girls are Coco and the mysterious brunette girl in a school uniform. I'm not into loli, and Doppel said something about playing as Takeshi first ..."

So here's what I smartly did *smug*. 8)

1 - I saved my file in a Quick Save, and it said "Kid - [something I forget]"
2 - then I saw the AutoSaves, and noticed the fork in the road option. Sahweet. So I clicked it.
3 - I clicked on Takeshi's path and Quick Saved that.
4 - Then just to be really safe, in my third Quick Save slot, I went back again to the fork in the road and saved before making the fork.

Here is my question to you ... if I am interested in finding out Kid's identity, but I'm more interested in Takeshi's choice of girls than Kid's, who should I pick? I know you can't pick for me, but you can at least advise me a little. Do you think I'll learn a lot about the Kid playing as Takeshi? Or do I need to play as the Kid (and go for the Kid/You relationship) if I want to (a) avoid lolis and (b) find out what the Kid is, exactly?

Here is how I'd rank the girls so far ...

1 - You
2 - Tsugumi
3 - Sara
4 - Coco
??? - the brunette (we don't really know anything about her yet)

=================================================

Current Theories, highlight to read:

1 - the Kid is some sort of clone or other genetic experiment.
2 - The brunette girl he sees is either him himself or is a fellow experimentee.
3 - Tsugumi didn't cause the LeMU disaster, but she was doing something that relates to it. Maybe trying to stop it? Investigating? No idea. But I don't think she herself did it.

[Doppleganger]

Here is my question to you ... if I am interested in finding out Kid's identity, but I'm more interested in Takeshi's choice of girls than Kid's, who should I pick? I know you can't pick for me, but you can at least advise me a little. Do you think I'll learn a lot about the Kid playing as Takeshi? Or do I need to play as the Kid (and go for the Kid/You relationship) if I want to (a) avoid lolis and (b) find out what the Kid is, exactly?


Yotsuba and AnimeSuki have both advised that the best route to take in the game is You -> Sara -> Tsugumi/Sora -> Coco. The reason is because You's Path touches lightly on every mystery in the game. My own path was:

Takeshi (Bad End) -> You (Good End) -> Sora (Good End) -> Sara (Good End) -> Sara (Bad End) -> You (Bad End) -> Tsugumi (Good End) -> Coco (True End)

Which is remarkably close to the "ideal" path. As such, if you're interested in You, I'd say go for it.

[Talon87]

Wait, I don't understand, though. When you say "the You path," do you mean Takeshi+You or do you mean Kid+You? Is there really a difference? (I'd imagine there would be.) If there's a difference, then I guess I'll probably do Kid+You. If there's no difference, then I'll definitely do Kid+You so I can figure out the Kid's story and also have fun turning lolis down in order to get You on my side.

Thought I would just say, the choices I've made so far are ...

1 - Don't listen to Coco's joke. Listen to Sara's explanation on LeMU.
2 - Don't tell You that Tsugumi punched you.
3 - Ask Tsugumi, "Just who the hell are YOU!?" in the elevator.

Regarding #1, it's not what I'd really do in real life, I have to admit, but like hell I'm going to miss out on this LeMU explanation! :O The fact that it gives me -1 to my Loli-o-Meter is just icing on the cake. :P

Regarding #2, this is not so much what I'd do as what I think the character Takeshi would do. He doesn't strike me as somebody who would want to admit a person in a giant Barney outfit just knocked the wind out of him. Plus he would want to look macho in front of You.

Regarding #3, this is actually the closest choice I had to what I myself would do irl. The choices were apologize, ask her who the hell she is, or be silent. I wouldn't be silent because we're all alone in the elevator and she looks confrontational and would misinterpret my silence. I wouldn't apologize because I didn't do anything wrong and (if I was in Takeshi's shoes) I'd have no idea why the hell this girl is taking her frustration out on me. That, and I'd want to know who she is, and why she seems so angry at me.
I just realized that every single one of the choices you can make (before choosing your path) is a Takeshi choice. Poor Kid. lol

[Doppleganger]

Wait, I don't understand, though. When you say "the You path," do you mean Takeshi+You or do you mean Kid+You? Is there really a difference? (I'd imagine there would be.) If there's a difference, then I guess I'll probably do Kid+You. If there's no difference, then I'll definitely do Kid+You so I can figure out the Kid's story and also have fun turning lolis down in order to get You on my side.


To clarify,

Kid/You -> Kid/Sara -> Takeshi/Sora-Takeshi/Tsugumi -> Coco


I just realized that every single one of the choices you can make (before choosing your path) is a Takeshi choice. Poor Kid. lol


Hey...that's right. Never bothered to think about Kid not getting a decision in the prologue. :|

[big bad birtha]

You'll probably be as surprised as moved. I myself got the t-shirt (http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4601/e17shirtyv5.png).


OMG XD. I lol'd haaard at that one. If there only was such a shirt.

[Doppleganger]

Accordingly, I believe I "shat" twenty four tons of bricks and one castle during Coco's Path. As in, I was shocked twenty five times, not including what was spoiled for me. I'd only worked out a couple plot points, and the rest came as a surprise.

[Talon87]

Can I click the t-shirt link? Is it spoiler-safe?

Updated status: playing as the Kid, attempting to woo Yuu by ...
- answering any questions I can which have an obvious answer that would make Yuu happy / not piss Yuu off
- answering any questions that stump me the way I, Talon, would answer them and hoping for the best

Spoiler updated status:

We just met Sara/Mayo and she's tagging along with us to the central computer. Yuu tried to destroy it, and I saved the game and quit for tomorrow.

Enjoying it so far, it reads like a "Not quite A, not quite B" sci-fi novel. I'm finding all of the skin contact Yuu does to the Kid very erotic (probably too erotic, *sigh* >> , I'm such a doujin boy), but at the same time, my brain is having a hard time accepting the very kinky path this story is going to take. So far, it is a game I respect on the level I respect normal games. It doesn't feel like an H-game at all. I can't BELIEVE it is an H-game.

Complaints include the many typos ...
- every time Yuu's character says the word "you" in her dialogue, the game glitches and thinks she's supposed to be saying Kid. Example: she is supposed to say "you there" and it comes out looking like "Kidere" because the letters K-I-D superimposed over the letters Space-T-H.

- Yuu's name is Yuu. But it's spelled You for the sake of an American audience. VERY annoying to students of Japanese. >_< I keep wanting to read it as either "You" (pron. YO, like a yo-yo) or as the English word "you" with the associated psychological connotations of 2nd person pronouns. >_< Grr!

- "all of the sudden" ... who says this!? :lol: It's "all of a sudden," guys! :P Unfortunately, this phrase is REALLY POPULAR in this game so this particular slip-up keeps coming up!


... and the slow pacing of the story ...
- I've spent 30 minutes and I still only have met Yuu and Sara/Mayo. Where are all the others!? :?
- I want to know what happened! Why did the water come gushing in!?
- the text ... it's on max speed and goes faster than the audio. But on slower speeds the text is too slow. @_@ I can't win!


... but that stated, the game is like 90% enjoyment 10% annoyance right now, so that's pretty good.

[Doppleganger]

Yes, the t-shirt is kosher.



Enjoying it so far, it reads like a "Not quite A, not quite B" sci-fi novel. I'm finding all of the skin contact Yuu does to the Kid very erotic (probably too erotic, *sigh* >> , I'm such a doujin boy), but at the same time, my brain is having a hard time accepting the very kinky path this story is going to take. So far, it is a game I respect on the level I respect normal games. It doesn't feel like an H-game at all. I can't BELIEVE it is an H-game.


Maybe because...it's NOT. :P



- every time Yuu's character says the word "you" in her dialogue, the game glitches and thinks she's supposed to be saying Kid. Example: she is supposed to say "you there" and it comes out looking like "Kidere" because the letters K-I-D superimposed over the letters Space-T-H.


What? Feh, that's probably a programming error from the translation of Yuu -> You, though I don't remember too many instances of that. There were cases of misuse of the word "you/your/you're" but instances like that seemed far and few to me.

/needs to play Kid's route again.



- Yuu's name is Yuu. But it's spelled You for the sake of an American audience. VERY annoying to students of Japanese. >_< I keep wanting to read it as either "You" (pron. YO, like a yo-yo) or as the English word "you" with the associated psychological connotations of 2nd person pronouns. >_< Grr!


Nope, while KID writes her name in kanji correctly, they chose "You" as the English romanization so they could do all the word-play jokes. Actually, there's more to it but i can't say. I will note Hirameki made no art edits to the game, nor did they add extra command lines (which you will see in the case of dwarves/mermaids) - word plugging like you mentioned earlier sounds a bit strange, though. I just assumed KID/Hirameki did what BioWare has done in Baldur's Gate - turned everything into strings.



- I've spent 30 minutes and I still only have met Yuu and Sara/Mayo. Where are all the others!? :?
- I want to know what happened! Why did the water come gushing in!?



Patience! This is a LONG visual novel - keep in mind I said it took me eight or nine hours to RUSH through You's Path! Talon will meet up with the truth in good time. Actually, after checking my own game, if you are where you say you are you shouldn't have to wait very long.



- the text ... it's on max speed and goes faster than the audio. But on slower speeds the text is too slow. @_@ I can't win!


Matching the voices and the text speed is probably going to be impossible given the characters are speaking Japanese and the text is in English. There's probably an ideal speed for you on Japanese version of the game but it won't be the case with the English. For me, I just used the max speed and treated the game like a subtitled anime - I get to see all of the lines a couple seconds in the future before the characters finish talking. Sometimes, I wouldn't even let them finish talking.



... but that stated, the game is like 90% enjoyment 10% annoyance right now, so that's pretty good.


Oh man, and you're still on the first day! :)

...

After another browse-through, I found a reference to another infinity title! Haha, oh wow!


"Even if we are floating in the middle of the Pacific, it's not as if we're lost in a blizzard."

[Talon87]

Wow, Doppel. Wow. *having just clicked the t-shirt link*

And to think, I actually thought for a good few seconds that it was a real shirt available for purchase on a real Ever17 fansite that you had found.

[Talon87]

I kept referring to Sora as "Sara" in my earlier posts, not realizing that Sara is in fact the name of another character, the brown-haired teen who looks up to Yuu. So I thought I would clarify, my preference for wooing the girls would be: (1) Tsugumi, (2) Yuu, and (3) Sora. I have no desire to woo either Sara or Coco, although I guess it's still too early in the game for me to completely rule Sara out.

Spoiler-Thoughts:

Pretty eerie! :D I can't believe Sara lied about being the only girl in the elevator. Makes you wonder if she's in cahoots with Coco or if Coco has the power to mess with people's memories or something.

Even more eerie! :D Sora's scan of the station revealed only six life signs. Where is Coco? Where is Coco's dog? Very eerie ...

Currently saved at the part where the Kid led everybody to the Conference Room to hang out since there aren't enough chairs in the Control Room. He's been formally introduced to everybody and they've just heard the explanation of Kid's amnesia from Yuu.

Decisions I've made so far ...
- There was an option between "Look for friends" and something else when it was just me and Yuu. I chose the something else.
- I asked Sara what was wrong (after noticing her hiding behind me when I looked at Tsugumi)
- Pretty sure there was another choice in the Control Room with Sora, but I can't remember ... hmm ...

[Doppleganger]

Even more eerie! :D Sora's scan of the station revealed only six life signs. Where is Coco? Where is Coco's dog? Very eerie ...


...



Ahh, but wasn't the reading originally seven? Takeshi, You, Sora, Sara, Tsugumi, Kid - six folk. If Coco's around that would explain the additional number, but her dog isn't with her when you see her in the infirmary. Even then, the computer never gave a reading of eight life forms - what happened to the dog?

[Talon87]

All spoiler. >>

I think you're remembering wrong. Sora tells them that she's detected (para-quote) "that every life form aboard the station is right in this very room." Kid then puts words in her mouth with his surprised exclamation, "The six of us!?" Sora confirms, "Exactly."

Even if she had known Coco was in the room (let's suppose), her agreeing with Kid's figure of 6 proves to us that she, too, does not see or perceive Coco's presence on the station map. All she picked up was the six others.

So like I said ... Coco is missing as well as her dog.

Still, even if you disagree with me, it's good to see that you agree that it's odd her dog is missing. I knew I was onto something. :D ;)

[Doppleganger]

I think you're remembering wrong. Sora tells them that she's detected (para-quote) "that every life form aboard the station is right in this very room." Kid then puts words in her mouth with his surprised exclamation, "The six of us!?" Sora confirms, "Exactly."




Keep in mind Sora said two conflicting truths:

1. LeMU's bio-scan detects six life forms in the unflooded part of the complex - their positions are mapped out.
2. The life-reading metre should not be malfunctioning.

As such, Sora must be wrong about one of the two.

[Talon87]

So I'm saying I believe her 2nd statement is true and therefore Coco is FREAKY OUT TO GET THEM!

Not a spoiler because I declared to you all from the outset that I believe Coco (as all loli characters are in these sorts of sci-f thriller stories) must be a horror for the heroes to reckon with.

If the 2nd statement is wrong and thus Coco is innocently an alive little girl, then fine. But I dun think so. :)

[Talon87]

MOMMY! SAVE ME FROM THE EVIL LOLI!
Creepy Pic 1 of 2 (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5739/mmm6xv0.png)
Creepy Pic 2 of 2 (http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6624/mmm7vh6.png)

And although I didn't take a screencap of the next scene, as Doppel full well knows ...

SHE VANISHES INTO THIN AIR AND TAKESHI ACCUSES ME OF BEING NUTS!

Definitive proof that Coco is either ...

a figment of my imagination because I'm a fucked-up lab experiment of LeMU's

Or...

the monster herself, out to kill us all, holy shit, WE'RE GONNA DIE! ;_;


Sci-fi thriller indeed. Dude, Coco is this game's equivalent of fuckin' Jaws, man! Just give her the theme music already and be done with it! "Duh dun ................. duh dun ................... duh dun, duh dun ....................." "SHAAAAAAAAAARK!"

Comfort-notice to BBB: Dude, I'm still on Day 1 of 7. My speculations could still be totally way off base and Doppel is laughing his ass off at me right now. But........ I really don't think so. ^_^; I think I called this one right from the get-go. Time will tell ...........

[Doppleganger]

Sci-fi thriller indeed. Dude, Coco is this game's equivalent of fuckin' Jaws, man! Just give her the theme music already and be done with it! "Duh dun ................. duh dun ................... duh dun, duh dun ....................." "SHAAAAAAAAAARK!"


Haha, oh wow. All this excitement and she hasn't done anything yet! :P

I will testify that I did NOT like Coco in You's Path. Not at all. But everything changed in the end.

[Talon87]

WARNING: WELL INTO DAY 2, BBB NEEDS TO SKIP IF HE IS NOT THERE YET; COLOR FORMATTING CAN'T SPOILER-PROOF STUFF :|

I just reached the part of the game featured in this image: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4701/nnn9ox1.png
Reminder of what just happened: we repaired the generator and got back on the EI. It stopped halfway ("Oh no!") and then Sora came on the speakers.

So saying, I would like to voice a MAJOR PREDICTION that just occurred to me.

The Questions: Why was Yuu certain Sora could not help them and would not return until the power came back on?
Why was it that Sora did not need to enter the decompression chamber with the other four?
Why was it that the moment power returned to the station, Sora contacted the kids onboard the EI? (as shown in my picture)

The Answers, Non-Super-Spoiler: Well, regarding Question 2, I initially brushed this one off as "Sora was being a self-sacrificing grown-up. :) She was spending her time trying to contact the outside world instead of worrying about decompressing the air inside her own body. What a brave woman." But that answer still couldn't help me to answer Question 1. And it wasn't until Question 3 was born (in my head) that, in microseconds, I was hit by a brainflash ...

The Answer, Prediction-of-a-MAJOR SPOILER
Sora is a robot.

The explanation of my theory, in the event it's so crazy Doppel can't believe it -OR- I'm spot on the money and Doppel wants to know how I figured it out
I made the connection with electrical power. Why was Yuu so certain Sora was "not coming back until the generator was repaired"? We know that she could not have left the station -- after all, if she could have, she would have (by now). Deceitful, she'd have done it while the kids were locked up in the decompression chamber. Non-deceitful, she'd have clued the kids in on her plan of escape. So we can rule attempted escape out. Okay ... so perhaps she was attacked? Again, not likely, especially not given how carefree Yuu was in her response. Sora must not be in any peril ... yet ... she can't come back until we fix the generator?

And then it clicked: she needs the power to operate, ergo, she must be a robot. It all made sense: her vast knowledge of LeMU, biology, and physics; her very polite and standard spoken Japanese; why she wouldn't need to enter the decompression chamber (she's not an organic being susceptible to the bends!); and so on. I thought of other things ... things like, "Hmm, do I even remember her eating chicken sandwiches with the others? :?". Even her name (sora means "sky" in Japanese) seemed to be a clue, as Yuu had just finished telling us a story about the Third Eye and how ancient vertebrates used to have an eye on their head that looked to the sky. Maybe the creators of LeMU christened "Sora" in honor of that concept?, I thought to myself. Freezing the game, feeling my hunch was right, I took a screencap to prove where I was in the game so Doppel could respond accordingly. Maybe he figured it out a lot sooner? Maybe a lot later? Maybe I haven't figured it out at all and if I had just played for 2 more seconds I would have found out the real reason for Sora's absence? Oh well. Time to find out, after I post this! :D

[Talon87]

Just finished Day 2, saved, and turned off. As Doppel knows, I now know whether my theory was right or wrong about Sora. I'd say it was 85% correct muhself, wouldn't you? Maybe more. :) I was pretty durn close.

[Doppleganger]

Why was Yuu certain Sora could not help them and would not return until the power came back on?
Why was it that Sora did not need to enter the decompression chamber with the other four?
Why was it that the moment power returned to the station, Sora contacted the kids onboard the EI? (as shown in my picture)


Most excellent! Do remember to apply that logic to Tsugumi as well.



And then it clicked: she needs the power to operate, ergo, she must be a robot. It all made sense: her vast knowledge of LeMU, biology, and physics; her very polite and standard spoken Japanese; why she wouldn't need to enter the decompression chamber (she's not an organic being susceptible to the bends!); and so on. I thought of other things ... things like, "Hmm, do I even remember her eating chicken sandwiches with the others? :?". Even her name (sora means "sky" in Japanese) seemed to be a clue, as Yuu had just finished telling us a story about the Third Eye and how ancient vertebrates used to have an eye on their head that looked to the sky. Maybe the creators of LeMU christened "Sora" in honor of that concept?, I thought to myself. Freezing the game, feeling my hunch was right, I took a screencap to prove where I was in the game so Doppel could respond accordingly. Maybe he figured it out a lot sooner? Maybe a lot later? Maybe I haven't figured it out at all and if I had just played for 2 more seconds I would have found out the real reason for Sora's absence? Oh well. Time to find out, after I post this! :D

Yes, I deduced the same material you did at this point, and your suspicions on the whole are correct, but there is a twist. A big one - and it is very important, though I shall not say why.

[Talon87]

Well, I don't think that Tsugumi is (or even could be) what Sora is. Simply because she wore the lemur-monkey suit and then the Kid was able to put it on, so she's obviously not a [HHHH]*. She could of course still be a [RRRRR]*, but I don't think so. I think she's ... got something else up with her. I dunno. We'll see. I'll cry if she turns out to be a scary [RRRRR], and I'll be happy if she ends up being a lovable [RRRRR] like the character in an anime Namek and I love ...

* [HHHH] = what Sora is
[RRRRR] = what I claimed Sora was, originally

[Doppleganger]

Think about Tsugumi and Sora's clothing relative to each other.

[Talon87]

OFF LIMITS TO READERS NOT YET AT DAY 3

Well, don't spoon-feed me. Then it won't feel like I discovered it all on my own (like I did with Sora). But ... insofar as I could compare their clothing, I would say ...

Sora : White :: Tsugumi : Black

So I suppose we could conclude (or attempt to conclude) that Tsugumi is a [HHHH] from rival company "United Land" (or some other rival company) that was trying to infiltrate LeMU to learn more about Sora. That's one possibility with absolutely no basis in fact based on what I've played through so far. :|

Um, we could also try and say something like "Tsugumi is Sora's opposite." She is very cold, Sora is very warm. She's impolite, Sora is polite. So on and so forth. So they could (possibly) be two different avatars that each represent LeMU's main computer, LeMMIH. But then Tsugumi's actions at the very beginning of the game (which seemed like espionage or sabotage or, at the very least, reconnaissance) make no sense. Every sign points to Tsugumi being an outside agent working to "find out the truth about LeMU" and such.

Thing is, I REALLY don't think Tsugumi is an [HHHH] or [RRRRR] because, if she were, then you'd think that Sara would have noticed by now and would have been chatting her up. Just like how Sara did to Sora. Also, Sora would never have voiced any concern over Tsugumi's well-being. No .......... I remain convinced, Tsugumi is not like Sora. :|

[Doppleganger]

Well, don't spoon-feed me. Then it won't feel like I discovered it all on my own (like I did with Sora).


Well, the clothing issue is just an observation I made, it's never addressed in the game. I was thinking about Tsugumi and Sora constructed from a writer's point of view, and writers like to throw in stuff like that hinting at the nature of people. But appearences can be decieving, so it's not a perfect heuristic to run on.


Um, we could also try and say something like "Tsugumi is Sora's opposite." She is very cold, Sora is very warm. She's impolite, Sora is polite. So on and so forth. So they could (possibly) be two different avatars that each represent LeMU's main computer, LeMMIH. But then Tsugumi's actions at the very beginning of the game (which seemed like espionage or sabotage or, at the very least, reconnaissance) make no sense. Every sign points to Tsugumi being an outside agent working to "find out the truth about LeMU" and such.


You're in the ballpark - I shall not say more than that. Also, I will also point out that you have already touched on an important part of the game's puzzles - names. Many names in the game give clues to some of the stuff happening, though I'd say in comparison to some of the other significant events they're less important.


Thing is, I REALLY don't think Tsugumi is an [HHHH] or [RRRRR] because, if she were, then you'd think that Sara would have noticed by now and would have been chatting her up. Just like how Sara did to Sora. Also, Sora would never have voiced any concern over Tsugumi's well-being. No .......... I remain convinced, Tsugumi is not like Sora. :|

You are correct in this - it's also probable that the sandwich Kid had in his pocket was swiped by Tsugumi, given he didn't think he dropped it and You + Sara + Takeshi weren't eating it.

[big bad birtha]

Alright. I have been playing for an hour or two. The plot has moved and something has happened (It hasn't been revealed yet). I am KID right now, and I just fainted after trying to remember my name. I am of course, talking to You.

Anyway, here is my opinion of the characters so far.

You- She is a very sweet and charming character. She is my favorite at the moment, but that is because I haven't really gotten into any of the other characters' true personalities.

Tsugumi- I have only seen her once. Well, I think she is the person in the tanuki suit, so I guess I have seen her a few times other than that. Anyway, I haven't really seen too much into her personality, so whatever.

Sora- I don't know her true personality yet either. The only things she said is just a part of her job. I don't know if she will be as charming as You, but I'm sure she will be likable.

Sara- I have only seen her a couple of times, and that is in either one of KID's dreams, or when he suddenly chases after her. It's obvious that she has some connection with KID, but I am not completely sure what it is.

Coco- She is pretty amusing. Well, I have only seen her after biting the tanakui's tail, and in the what you call it. I don't know if she is insane as Suigin says, but I will find out as time comes.

Takeshi- Well, so far, he's just some dude. Like Sara, I believe he has something to do with KID's past, but I am not exactly sure what it might be. It's still too early.

KID- I'm getting some crazy vibes from him. Like that dream he had where he was overjoyed about the fact that there was no-one around and jumped into the water with an insane expression. I thought that maybe he was the one who sunk the place, or he mentally connected with whoever did it (I kind of believe it's Sara who did).

Well, as you can tell, it's way too early for me to be making any real conclusions. I will be trucking it as fast as I can.

[Talon87]

I'm still trying to figure out Kid's jumping into the pool myself. There are too many things wrong with it ...

1 - He seemed almost suicidal. As if he was gleeful that no one was around to stop him. Yet everything else he's ever said suggests that he values life and is eager to find out who he is.

2 - It can't just be "a pool" if it has a watertight seal over it. It must be connected to the surrounding ocean waters. The water would be kept from rushing in thanks to the magic of "6 atm of internal pressure pushing against 6 atm of ocean pressure." In fact, the water is no different (as far as I can tell) from a bottomside hatch in a submarine that can be opened when the internal cabin pressure matches oceanic pressure. Like what you see in movies like The Abyss or the television series SeaQuest. So ... why was Kid diving into the ocean? And how far did he get?

3 - When Kid woke up, the people had already been made to evacuate the station. (Sora later explains to the group the cause for this evacuation.) He and Yuu walked around the station and observed (prior to the rushing water scene) that many doors were already sealed shut. This suggests that LeMU had already been "under attack" from rushing water and had sealed off certain doors. One would imagine that this would include the pond (i.e. the waterhatch, See #2 above). Yet ... if Kid was in the pond at the time of the emergency, the door would have sealed shut over him. Somehow, it did not. Why is this?

4 - Who rescued Kid from the pond? He could not have rescued himself -- he blacked out, and would have drowned otherwise. Sora could not have saved him, either. And Yuu did not look wet when she was hovering over the Kid's bedside.


Personal theory: the Kid didn't jump into the pond. It was all in his dream/head. He went to the infirmary because of heat exhaustion from wearing the Lemur-monkey suit, and he had this out-of-body dream. Perhaps he was in somebody else's body? Maybe Coco's? Mayeb Coco is the one who jumped into the pond? No idea. All I do know is, I'm pretty sure Kid didn't because neither he nor Yuu made any reference to him being wet -- and he would have been soaking through if he'd really jumped in the pond.

[Doppleganger]

I will be trucking it as fast as I can.

Eh, I wouldn't advise that for the whole game. I ran through Ever17 and really wish I had taken my time to smell the roses more deeply (yes, I did pay attention to stuff, but not as much as I should have). If you're trying to catch up to Talon's position so we can have parallel discussions, that's fine, but whatever you do, don't rush through the game.


1 - He seemed almost suicidal. As if he was gleeful that no one was around to stop him. Yet everything else he's ever said suggests that he values life and is eager to find out who he is.

I won't comment on this.


2 - It can't just be "a pool" if it has a watertight seal over it. It must be connected to the surrounding ocean waters. The water would be kept from rushing in thanks to the magic of "6 atm of internal pressure pushing against 6 atm of ocean pressure." In fact, the water is no different (as far as I can tell) from a bottomside hatch in a submarine that can be opened when the internal cabin pressure matches oceanic pressure. Like what you see in movies like The Abyss or the television series SeaQuest. So ... why was Kid diving into the ocean? And how far did he get?


Correct, it is connected to the ocean. A hypothesis for what happened in that scene would be that the Kid lost consciousness underwater and You pulled him out before the hatch closed. It took a while for the pressure to leak out of LeMU down to one atmosphere, so I would surmise the hatch wouldn't have closed until Zweite Stock (the second floor) would have lost its air pressure. Notice that when You and Kid attempt their escape after Kid woke up, the hatches didn't start to close until after water leaked into the facility.


3 - When Kid woke up, the people had already been made to evacuate the station. (Sora later explains to the group the cause for this evacuation.) He and Yuu walked around the station and observed (prior to the rushing water scene) that many doors were already sealed shut. This suggests that LeMU had already been "under attack" from rushing water and had sealed off certain doors. One would imagine that this would include the pond (i.e. the waterhatch, See #2 above). Yet ... if Kid was in the pond at the time of the emergency, the door would have sealed shut over him. Somehow, it did not. Why is this?


None of Zweite Stock was sealed off when You and Kid began their escape - the flooding began because the weakest part of the LeMU infrastructure, the glass windows in Erste Boden, couldn't handle the pressure difference with the outside. In truth, the release of the pressure was initially caused by an opening to Insel Null from Erste Boden, by which alot of people escaped (and I would surmise underwent 'the bends'), and the leaking helium gas lead to the loss of pressure in Erste Boden. From there, the water cascaded into Zweite Stock.


4 - Who rescued Kid from the pond? He could not have rescued himself -- he blacked out, and would have drowned otherwise. Sora could not have saved him, either. And Yuu did not look wet when she was hovering over the Kid's bedside.


This is up to one's interpretation - we have no idea how long it took for the Kid to regain consciousness. I'd say it would have been enough time for You to dry off after getting him, or otherwise if he didn't dive very far she could have just scooped him out.


Personal theory: the Kid didn't jump into the pond. It was all in his dream/head. He went to the infirmary because of heat exhaustion from wearing the Lemur-monkey suit, and he had this out-of-body dream. Perhaps he was in somebody else's body? Maybe Coco's? Mayeb Coco is the one who jumped into the pond? No idea. All I do know is, I'm pretty sure Kid didn't because neither he nor Yuu made any reference to him being wet -- and he would have been soaking through if he'd really jumped in the pond.

That's what I originally thought - it had to have been a dream, since the Kid was halluciating prior to his "jump" as well. If that was not enough evidence, Kid claims he doesn't remember anything prior to falling into the pool, but he apparently lost his memory before that when he first woke up on the bench.

[big bad birtha]

Well, I have of course played some more. I just got through talking to Sora about the place and its origins. I wanted to know what the pharmacy in Germany had to do with an amusement park, but Sora gave me a vague answer and shooed me away. I am about to look somewhere else for people. I also really pissed off Tsugumi (even though that doesn't seem difficult).

There is one thing bothering me though. The bio scanner says that there are six people in the place, when we all know that they are seven. There is also a moment when the bio scanner went at five, and then to seven, and then to six again. I think Suigin is right and Coco is something insane. I didn't want to admit it because I didn't like his logic for assuming that, but I don't think Coco is human, since the bio scanner couldn't spot her.

[Doppleganger]

Well, I have of course played some more. I just got through talking to Sora about the place and its origins. I wanted to know what the pharmacy in Germany had to do with an amusement park, but Sora gave me a vague answer and shooed me away.

It's not as vague as you might think.

...

When you lot finish the game, be sure to check out the soundtrack (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TRYAJROE), but don't do it until you've fully completed the game! I say this because there are spoilers in the music - yes, there are - and they would be rather surprising to stumble on. D:

[big bad birtha]

Alrightey, I am halfway through the fourth day. I am almost positive that I am on You's path as well. We found out about You's parents, which leaves me kind of puzzled. Then You storms off, and I chase after her. One thing Sara said kind of amazed me. I was arguing with her about not being her knight in shining armor, and she said "Weren't you the one who wanted us to call you prince?". She used the name I wanted against me!!! I'm not sure if it worked the same way with all of the names, but still. After that, I comforted her, and she felt better. Nice romantic development there.

Also, Tsugumi seems to trust only me. She tells me flat out that if I trust any of them, I will die on the seventh day. For some strange reason, I am somewhat infatuated with Tsugumi ><. I really can't explain it. It's alot like my infatuation with Yakumo from School Rumble. Something just makes my eyes migrate towards her.

[Doppleganger]

Alrightey, I am halfway through the fourth day. I am almost positive that I am on You's path as well. We found out about You's parents, which leaves me kind of puzzled. Then You storms off, and I chase after her. One thing Sara said kind of amazed me. I was arguing with her about not being her knight in shining armor, and she said "Weren't you the one who wanted us to call you prince?". She used the name I wanted against me!!! I'm not sure if it worked the same way with all of the names, but still. After that, I comforted her, and she felt better. Nice romantic development there.

Yup, you are most likely on You's Path right now. Just check the quicksaves to confirm it.


Also, Tsugumi seems to trust only me. She tells me flat out that if I trust any of them, I will die on the seventh day. For some strange reason, I am somewhat infatuated with Tsugumi ><. I really can't explain it. It's alot like my infatuation with Yakumo from School Rumble. Something just makes my eyes migrate towards her.

Uuuuuuggghhhh. :x

I remember when Tsugumi told that to me, I was pissed off since I got on You's Path immediately after getting the Takeshi Bad End. "Fudge you, Tsugumi, I'm going to escape from this gosh darn prison and laugh in your arrogant face".

...

Haha, oh wow. I guess I'm being taught by Takeshi in Macroeconomics starting Monday. My, my...how the world has come full circle. :mrgreen:

[big bad birtha]

I am looking at the past loads, and all of them are Tsugumi's face o.O. WTF. I don't want her path yet. I want my first end to be a good end, and I have probably already ****ed up hers. I am close to both You and Tsugumi, however, I am closer to You.

[Doppleganger]

The face icons for your quick-saves have nothing to do with paths, they're just a cosmetic. When you're about to save you can move your mouse around and pick another icon should you choose to.

Also, how far are you? Last update you were on day four...are you near the end? :O

[big bad birtha]

No, I haven't been playing much because I have a stupid life now (god damnit). I am just starting day five. I just got through talking to You about possibilities of her parents. I honestly don't want to jump to any conclusions yet.

[Doppleganger]

Hmm, I can't remember what happened on day five of You's Path. Did you already go through the...hmm.


"Password puzzle"?

If yes, I'm curious as to whether or not you had trouble with it. I myself racked my brains before making an effort, since because the game leads one to a certain action by providing answer choices, it would have been cheap to just go through all the answers systematically. I got the right answer (to great surprise!) on the third try, though I ended up being cheap in the end anyway.

That's one of the puzzles I wish I had figured out on my own - I would have felt more worthy getting the praise for solving it. :|

[big bad birtha]

I got it wrong =/. I'm an idiot and couldn't solve it at all. I just guessed that the password might be You's full name, but that was a stupid guess. Let me guess....phailure....

[Doppleganger]

It's a hint only Talon would be able to get, and even then, a) it wouldn't make much sense to him at this point in the story, b) it's a hint, nothing more. There are a bunch of other hints that give the same information, albeit less liberally, in other forms.

Remember "statues".

[big bad birtha]

Eh? What do statues have to do with what to do with a piece of paper? I guess I might have to give it a look again.

Oh, and I am on the sixth day. Here's the most recent event. You just made her move. She was asking me what she was going to do, and Kid, kept saying he didn't know. She told him that she was going to show him the third eye, so she closed both of his eyes, and kissed him. He was quite confused at this. I'll take it that he's quite dim when it comes to this.

[Doppleganger]

Nothing regarding the paper itself, the statues give a simmilar sort of hint to what the paper gives, it's just that the paper gives more detail and the statues are harder to figure out

...


You just made her move. She was asking me what she was going to do, and Kid, kept saying he didn't know. She told him that she was going to show him the third eye, so she closed both of his eyes, and kissed him. He was quite confused at this. I'll take it that he's quite dim when it comes to this.

I wouldn't say he's dim, he was taken by surprise. I was too! I had no idea I was on You's Path at that time since I was aiming for Sara, but when that happened I went, "oh well, guess I'm stuck with You".

...

OH MY GOSH, I made a new discovery. D:

Not sure if want.

[big bad birtha]

Really? I thought it was obvious what she was going to do after she asked him "Ok, guess what I am thinking about doing."

Anyway, I just finished this side of the story. Here's what happened.

Me and You went to the control room. While we were there, You's mother appeared on the screen. She and some guy said that they had a way for us to escape. We all waited and they opened up the escape route. However, it flooded and everyone but me and You escaped. After that, me and You went to the security room. The place imploded and I went running to the control room. However, I found Coco and started following her. She led me to this door, but I couldn't open it. The water flooded and got us. After that, I opened my eyes to see the monitor says that is only one person in the bio scan. That's it.

There was much more to it than I said. I have to say, my heart was racing the entire time. I was also touched deeply at some of the things that happened. Even though it was probably a bad ending, it was still a great experience. I will be off to find my next victim now.

[Doppleganger]

Congratulations on finishing You's Path, you've done it in record time I think. O.o;

Took me between eight and ten hours to rush through it, though I spent a great deal more time going through Takeshi's Route.

I would advise you to backtrack a bit and finish off Kid's Route with Sara. Since you've done You's Path, which touches on all the secrets of the game, you should start in the (in my view) weakest "answer" arc of the whole game.

...

Wait, that was the Bad End! Go back to the fourth day and rack up some more You points!

[Doppleganger]

BBB, here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/rlzqjb) is a hint to the password puzzle. I've done something simmilar to what happened in that instance only I used English text, not Japanese characters, which would have made the puzzle very hard to figure out for English speakers.

[big bad birtha]

Auugh!!! I can't load any before the sixth day. As an RPG guy, I have a bad habit of saving ALOT. There was a Final Fantasy where they told how many times I saved, and I saved like 200 times before I beat it. I don't know if that contributes to my inability to load to the fourth day, but there's a possible conclusion.

Anyway, I will start another game. I will go to You's path later and get the good ending.

[Doppleganger]

Auugh!!! I can't load any before the sixth day. As an RPG guy, I have a bad habit of saving ALOT. There was a Final Fantasy where they told how many times I saved, and I saved like 200 times before I beat it. I don't know if that contributes to my inability to load to the fourth day, but there's a possible conclusion.


This will save you A LOT of time, I wish I had this knowledge when I played. Go to the main Menu and click "Special". Then click "Shortcut". Select the THIRD day, not the fourth really, you need to do the puzzle!

Also, here's a little something I should tell you about the Bad End.


The name of the room Kid was pounding on was "Himmel", which means "heaven" in German. So, the last measure was a parallel for Kid trying to take You to heaven.

[big bad birtha]

OMG. After hearing your explanation of the end.....I am crying now. That's just so horrible, yet sweet at the same time.

[Talon87]

I read your guys' replies up until the discussion of passwords and BBB saying "I'm on Day 6" and I was like, "Whoa, Nelly!" and got off the train. Went down to a do a quick reply and (upon posting this post and giving it a read through) IMMEDIATELY scrolled down when I saw BBB's letters "OMG." Haven't been spoiled yet, but sort of worried. BBB, use spoiler warning text or something! :P

I myself just finished Day 4 / saved on the very first sentence of Day 5.

If the password thing you guys are talking about is the piece of paper You printed ... I used to do those things all the time in elementary school. :? So for me, I thought it was easy, and the only question in my mind was, "When you say turn it vertically, does that mean 90° from where it is now or is it already in the vertical plane?" So my first answer was "turn it vertically slightly" (since I usually hold them above my head when reading them), but when I saw what it did, I went back and selected the then-obvious answer of "turn it vertically a lot" and voilÃÂ*.

If that's not the password thing you guys are talking about, then I guess I still haven't gotten to it.

BBB, you asked about the word "prince." I did not make that name selection, and Sara did not ever mention it when I got to the scene you described. So yeah, it *does* depend on the choices you make in-game.

Doppel, I still haven't figured out just who Tsugumi is. Assuming that time travel plays into this game, my theory is "she is an older Sara" because she and Sara seem to have the most interraction and Tsugumi seems to be doing what an older Sara (who went through the LeMU disaster) might have done: invented a time machine, gone back in time, and tried to blow up LeMU ~or~ prevent the LeMU disaster from ever happening. They seem to share a lot of facial animations in common, which is the other reason I say this. But ... I'm not convinced that Tsugumi is a time traveler yet, and my theory that she is an older Sara is pretty fuzzy.

I'm really curious about this whole time travel + "Tief Blau" thing. I don't think the Kid is just a time traveler, considering the whole "I see red blood cells" bit at the beginning of the game. I'm still pretty sure he's some sort of experiment of LeMU's. Regarding You, I'm getting annoyed because this is supposed to be the future yet NO ONE has mentioned in vitro fertilization yet, i.e. Yuu's dad and mom could still be her genetic parents *AND* have died ages ago if she's a test tube baby. It's entirely conceivable that her dad died 34 years ago but that LeMU had a seminal sample of his; and ditto for Yuu's mom plus some of her egg cells. Yuu could be a child that LeMU produced and sent home to be raised "as a real daughter" by one of the LeMU staff, as part of an on-going (so far 18 years long) experiment.

On with Day 5!

P.S. Where is Coco? O_o; *creeped out* We haven't seen her for several days ...
P.P.S. Also, if there is a rat onboard LeMU, he obviously didn't just arrive out of thin air, so either (a) there is an exit to the outside surface or (b) Sora's biosensors are super-broken.

[big bad birtha]

Oh...I apologize. I didn't think my feelings toward an ending would be a spoiler though. Trust me, I have been really careful with my spoilers. Notice that most of my comments outside of the spoiler box is REALLY vague, and you wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about until you already went through it.

Anyway, I am gone back to day three of You's path. I am going to try to get that puzzle right (well, Suigin answered it for me -_-; ) this time and hope that I get the good ending. I should be at day six again by tonight. It usually takes like 45 minutes or less for each day except for the first two.

[Talon87]

What? What? 8O You mean to tell me the game doesn't force you to get the password question (that I answered above) correct before moving you on? And that failure to get the correct answer results in a Bad End? Crazy. Glad I went back to my save file to get it on Attempt #2 (which isn't fair, because I had the right idea 100% but KID just worded it too confusingly -.-)

And haven't you seen those puzzles before, BBB? Like I said ... I first was exposed to those in either 4th or 5th grade (my earliest intact memory is of solving one in 5th grade, but I also get the feeling that this memory was not of my earliest exposure to the puzzle). Saw them again in various other places over the years. Hell, I even use to write notes like that for fun in high school when I was bored. In English, it's a lot easier ... you just have to write your letters very (horizontally) narrow but very (vertically) long. In kanji ... man, I can't imagine, that would be pretty crazy.

[Doppleganger]

If the password thing you guys are talking about is the piece of paper You printed ... I used to do those things all the time in elementary school. :? So for me, I thought it was easy, and the only question in my mind was, "When you say turn it vertically, does that mean 90° from where it is now or is it already in the vertical plane?" So my first answer was "turn it vertically slightly" (since I usually hold them above my head when reading them), but when I saw what it did, I went back and selected the then-obvious answer of "turn it vertically a lot" and voilÃÂ*.


Yes, that is the puzzle. It's very important, even doubly so after I did it again to evaluate its merit. Possibly the single most important puzzle in all of You's Path, and there's a lot of stuff available there.


And haven't you seen those puzzles before, BBB? Like I said ... I first was exposed to those in either 4th or 5th grade (my earliest intact memory is of solving one in 5th grade, but I also get the feeling that this memory was not of my earliest exposure to the puzzle). Saw them again in various other places over the years. Hell, I even use to write notes like that for fun in high school when I was bored. In English, it's a lot easier ... you just have to write your letters very (horizontally) narrow but very (vertically) long. In kanji ... man, I can't imagine, that would be pretty crazy.

No, I never played with puzzles like those either. I had to think about how a printer would distort an image like that in order to get on the right track for the puzzle, and even then I still took the cheap route because I was given options immediately after picking "turn it".

What? What? 8O You mean to tell me the game doesn't force you to get the password question (that I answered above) correct before moving you on? And that failure to get the correct answer results in a Bad End? Crazy. Glad I went back to my save file to get it on Attempt #2 (which isn't fair, because I had the right idea 100% but KID just worded it too confusingly -.-)

It's not any one choice that determines the Bad End, it's the accumulation of "not optimal" choices and decisions. Failing to figure out the puzzle for You is a major blow, but not a critical one. However, no, the game makes slight variations to the plot depending on your choices - in fact, simply picking Kid entails some slight differences from Takeshi's Route.


Doppel, I still haven't figured out just who Tsugumi is. Assuming that time travel plays into this game, my theory is "she is an older Sara" because she and Sara seem to have the most interraction and Tsugumi seems to be doing what an older Sara (who went through the LeMU disaster) might have done: invented a time machine, gone back in time, and tried to blow up LeMU ~or~ prevent the LeMU disaster from ever happening. They seem to share a lot of facial animations in common, which is the other reason I say this. But ... I'm not convinced that Tsugumi is a time traveler yet, and my theory that she is an older Sara is pretty fuzzy.


What are your suspicions regarding the locket.


I'm really curious about this whole time travel + "Tief Blau" thing. I don't think the Kid is just a time traveler, considering the whole "I see red blood cells" bit at the beginning of the game. I'm still pretty sure he's some sort of experiment of LeMU's. Regarding You, I'm getting annoyed because this is supposed to be the future yet NO ONE has mentioned in vitro fertilization yet, i.e. Yuu's dad and mom could still be her genetic parents *AND* have died ages ago if she's a test tube baby. It's entirely conceivable that her dad died 34 years ago but that LeMU had a seminal sample of his; and ditto for Yuu's mom plus some of her egg cells. Yuu could be a child that LeMU produced and sent home to be raised "as a real daughter" by one of the LeMU staff, as part of an on-going (so far 18 years long) experiment.


Kid's abilities are clarified in Sara's Path. On the subject of You, she has seen baby pictures of herself playing with her father, so he couldn't have died thirty four years in the past. And yes, I will testify the man in the old movies is indeed Yoichi Tanaka and they are not doctored photos/films. However, keep what you said in mind, since Sora and Takeshi discuss something about that in Takeshi's Route.


P.P.S. Also, if there is a rat onboard LeMU, he obviously didn't just arrive out of thin air, so either (a) there is an exit to the outside surface or (b) Sora's biosensors are super-broken.

Rat? Oh, I know what you're talking about. Well, here's a minor hint - think about what happened on the second day.

[big bad birtha]

And haven't you seen those puzzles before, BBB? Like I said ... I first was exposed to those in either 4th or 5th grade (my earliest intact memory is of solving one in 5th grade, but I also get the feeling that this memory was not of my earliest exposure to the puzzle). Saw them again in various other places over the years. Hell, I even use to write notes like that for fun in high school when I was bored. In English, it's a lot easier ... you just have to write your letters very (horizontally) narrow but very (vertically) long. In kanji ... man, I can't imagine, that would be pretty crazy.

No, I have never seen one. I'm not sure how to go about making one either, not that I really care.

Oh, I have some suspicions about Tsugumi. Here's my thoughts.

I believe that she is a secret agent of sorts. Like in the beginning of the game, she is dressed as a tanuki (well, I think she is) and she is looking around for something. Also, she has insane strength and speed. Her "I don't trust anyone" attitude is another reason for me thinking this.

Anyway, I have gotten the puzzle right on the first try (I wonder why?). I don't know if my chances for acquiring the power of the good ending is in my grasps now, but whatever.

[Talon87]

I BEAT THE GAME, AND I THINK I GOT THE SHITTY GOOD ENDING? (not a typo)

When I say "shitty good ending," I mean that everybody survived except Sora (who even claimed she would survive in duplicate and would merely perish in her LeMMIH form :(), and Yuu seemed to be in love with me, and we made it out alive (did I mention that already?), etc. etc. Sara and Takeshi were swordfighting with sticks, Yuu and I were smooching, Tsugumi vanished to no one knew where ( :( ), and of course Coco fused into the room behind the "HIMMEL" door.

SO! THOUGHTS!

Well, I must say, I am very disappointed -- and so I will start off with my list of complaints. :x

Why did the game build up the third eye business (and the concept of "the 4th dimension is time") when the game ended without Shounen ever really having to use it? :| A completely unresolved mystery.[/*:m:8e252]
Ditto for Tsugumi getting into that heated argument with Sora over the existence of a 4th floor. I for one believe her w/o a doubt, yet the game never even provides you with the opportunity to explore Tsugumi's theory with her ... unless I was supposed to click on "talk to Tsugumi" instead of "talk to Yuu" right before Tsugumi, Sara, and Takeshi escaped on Day 6.[/*:m:8e252]
Ditto for Yuu's parents! WTF :evil: , I play through Yuu's story mode and you mean to fuckin' tell me that we don't get a definitive answer as to who her parents were, how they died, etc. etc.? Or who her foster mother was? Or who that man was that reassured Yuu "your mother loves you very, very much." Were those clones of her parents? I mean, c'mon! I want answers![/*:m:8e252]
Shounen's dream where he saw three capsules and a black ooze began to come out of one of them. Something tells me he was inside one of those! But we never got to find out. :x[/*:m:8e252]
Shounen's ability to anticipate future events. Never definitively explained. :| Just an "Oh Shounen, maybe you do have the Third Eye!" BS explanation from Yuu.[/*:m:8e252]
SHOUNEN'S PAST!!! Wtf! :evil: Times ten! :evil: I chose this path to learn who the fuck Shounen was, and we never got to! In the end, I'm still happy with Shounen (because Takeshi, even though he may be older, seems a lot less mature and a lot less intelligent), but ... I can't help but feel cheated. :x I'm no better off now, having beaten the game at 3am, then I was four hours ago when I was still on Day 4. :x[/*:m:8e252]
The statues! Doppel told me to pay attention, so I even took screencaps ... but they never factored in! I was never asked any question about 6 human stick figures and 2 animal stick figures ... nor was I ever asked about a statue with her arm extended vertically and diagonally pointing "to the east" (how the fuck would Shounen have known which was east from inside LeMU? :?). Major letdown. I totally thought that that was going to be a big plot twist thing, especially since the engravings Coco made stayed put even after she left.[/*:m:8e252]
Sara lying about being the one singing the kid's song in the Whale Room. Or rather, if she was telling the truth, why Shounen saw Sara as Coco.[/*:m:8e252]
In fact ... why didn't we go in the Whale Room sooner? :? We went there for two minutes and then an hour later (in-game) it was gone.[/*:m:8e252]
I WANT TO GO INSIDE HIMMEL! Something tells me you can't do this until you play the Coco path, though. :|[/*:m:8e252]

Now ... the list of things I did like. ^_^;

The game's speed.[/*:m:8e252]
The relatively interesting and very real characters.[/*:m:8e252]
The general concept.[/*:m:8e252]
The mystery of this pharmaceutical company investigating some "TB" virus and at the same time investigating time travel and all that shit.[/*:m:8e252]
The Sora vs. Sara hacking scene.[/*:m:8e252]

Sleepy. More tomorrow. But for now, I do want to ask (so Doppel can get back to me) ... if I want to woo Tsugumi, who is better? Takeshi or Kid?

[Talon87]

Just read the rest of your replies (now that I can't be too spoilered). Looks like I did get the good end. Go me, I'm a champ, and I didn't even need any help.

Doppel: *cough* A-HE-HE-HEM? :evil:

Dude. :P :oops: I pretty much did do it all on my own since you didn't want to tell me shit anyway (and I thank you for that). I still can't believe how much you gush over the printed out sheet of paper, though. ^_^; That was, as I have said many times already, something I grew up doing and took for granted everybody knew about. Like I said, the only reason it took me 2 tries is because of semantic disagreement between me and KID.

Anyway, the good ending for Yuu wasn't really all that good. :| Tsugumi just vanished, and like I said, a lot of plot details were left unanswered. A lot. Like ... quite frankly, I'm pissed off with Yuu's story mode, because you become so interested in it, and then the answers just aren't delivered. :x

Ah, so "Himmel" means German, eh? I didn't know that. I figured it was German, and I figured it was "LeMMIH" spelled backwards, but those were the only two connections I made. My third "connection" (if you can call it that) is my theory that Himmel is where LeMMIH's computer terminal is found (i.e. Sora's body) and it probably also leads to the 4th floor Tsugumi was talking about.

Regarding playing back through flirting with Sara ... maybe if I have the time. :| I really want to explore that 4th floor, and if unlocking Tsugumi is what'll take me there, then that's what I'm gonna do.

How does one get on Sora's path? :? I didn't see very many opportunities to do so. I saw a ton of opportunities on Kid's path to go after Yuu or Sara specifically since there were (a) a lot of questions for each of them and (b) a lot of occasions where you had to choose between pleasing one or the other (e.g. do you choose to accompany Yuu or stay behind with Sara during the 'fix the generator' mission?). But as for Sora ... really, I didn't see many chances to flatter her. She blushed ... maybe twice during my story mode with Kid.

Doppel ... what is this thing you "just realized" on the bottom of page 3 that made you go all "OMG not sure I want to say :|"? Is it something that has ruined the game for you? Is it a clue that you don't want to spoiler me and BBB with since we're still doing other story arcs?

And finally ... her name is "Yuu". The proof comes from when she tells you her full name (Yuubiseiakikana) and explains the meaning behind each. She says "yuu means gentle", proof that it's the onyomi yuu for the kanji for the word "gentle," yasashii. 優 In fact, if you want the characters for her name, I can give you all but the 'sei' and the 'ka' -- 優美＿秋＿èÅ*± . The only reason I can't give you the sei and ka is because there are multiple characters which fit the bill, so ... :|

[Doppleganger]

I was going to answer each of Talon's disappointments individually, but they tie in rather well with what I said ages past, so I'll only address one and stress my original point.


Why did the game build up the third eye business (and the concept of "the 4th dimension is time") when the game ended without Shounen ever really having to use it? :| A completely unresolved mystery.


BE PATIENT! As I said way back when, You's Path is widely considered to be the best introductory path because it touches on all the game's secrets lightly. When playing her path, expect something like 95% of the truth to be obscured. Seriously. There's very little in terms of "deep" content to get from You's Path, but in terms of touching on everything, you've got it covered. If you want concrete answers, Sara, Tsugumi, and Coco's Paths are your ticket to unlocking the overall puzzle - You + Sora's Paths are more of the romantic types, though Sora's Path isn't nearly as "puzzle heavy" as You's (which is, suffice to say, the most puzzle heavy outside of Coco's Path).


Sleepy. More tomorrow. But for now, I do want to ask (so Doppel can get back to me) ... if I want to woo Tsugumi, who is better? Takeshi or Kid?

Oh, without a doubt, Takeshi.


Ah, so "Himmel" means [Heaven], eh? I didn't know that. I figured it was German, and I figured it was "LeMMIH" spelled backwards (!!!), but those were the only two connections I made. My third "connection" (if you can call it that) is my theory that Himmel is where LeMMIH's computer terminal is found (i.e. Sora's body) and it probably also leads to the 4th floor Tsugumi was talking about.


WOAH! Talk about my mind getting blown! Thanks for pointing that out, I don't think anyone I've talked to made that connection before. o_o

For that, I'll exchange a puzzle piece for a puzzle piece - Himmel has multiple meanings in German, not just heaven.


Regarding playing back through flirting with Sara ... maybe if I have the time. :| I really want to explore that 4th floor, and if unlocking Tsugumi is what'll take me there, then that's what I'm gonna do.


You won't go below Dritte Stock in Kid's Route. Takeshi's, yes.


How does one get on Sora's path? :? I didn't see very many opportunities to do so. I saw a ton of opportunities on Kid's path to go after Yuu or Sara specifically since there were (a) a lot of questions for each of them and (b) a lot of occasions where you had to choose between pleasing one or the other (e.g. do you choose to accompany Yuu or stay behind with Sara during the 'fix the generator' mission?). But as for Sora ... really, I didn't see many chances to flatter her. She blushed ... maybe twice during my story mode with Kid.


Sora isn't as interested in the Kid as she is with Takeshi - I think she considers Takeshi "more mature" (haha) than Kid and since he's closer to her 'age', she tends to spend more time with him in both Takeshi and Kid's Route. There's no paths for Sora and Tsugumi in Kid's Route - if it wasn't apparent, Kid tends to spend most of his time around You and Sara, interacting with Takeshi and Sora less and Tsugumi the least. The (rough) reverse is true for Takeshi's Route - Takeshi spends a lot of time with either Tsugumi or Sora, followed by You and the Kid, Coco and the off-path girl the least.


Doppel ... what is this thing you "just realized" on the bottom of page 3 that made you go all "OMG not sure I want to say :|"? Is it something that has ruined the game for you? Is it a clue that you don't want to spoiler me and BBB with since we're still doing other story arcs?

Um, I'm not sure. I'll tell you but I won't say why I found it so surprising.

In the early morning on the sixth day, when You lures Kid into the Lemurian Ruins, she not only kisses him, they have sex as well.

You (Talon) will most likely say, "I dunno about you (Dopple), but that was pretty darn obvious to me. :? " - I will profess that when I first played You's Route, I was of the same perception but retracted that after fully completing You's Path. Only, I did some more research and have arrived at the conclusion that my initial impression was right.


And finally ... her name is "Yuu". The proof comes from when she tells you her full name (Yuubiseiakikana) and explains the meaning behind each. She says "yuu means gentle", proof that it's the onyomi yuu for the kanji for the word "gentle," yasashii. 優 In fact, if you want the characters for her name, I can give you all but the 'sei' and the 'ka' -- 優美＿秋＿èÅ*± . The only reason I can't give you the sei and ka is because there are multiple characters which fit the bill, so ... :|

I have my reasons for using "You", though it's mostly out of habit and personal preference.

[Talon87]

I'll play Takeshi and shoot for Tsugumi, then. That'll be convenient, too, because then I'll have the "shortcuts" method unlocked for both boys.

New question: when playing Kid x Sara (as I intend to do later), how far back must I go on Kid's history to get it right? Day 2 (@ Generator)? Day 3? All I know is, I unlocked the part where you trip over Sara during Kick the Can and she's within kissing range, so I'm pretty sure I wooed her correctly (originally) even if I was aiming for Yuu. But that was the ONLY Sara wallpaper I unlocked. I have 1 Sara wallpaper, 1 Sora wallpaper, 0 Tsugumi, 0 Coco, 1 Takeshi, and then a shitton for Yuu.

[Doppleganger]

New question: when playing Kid x Sara (as I intend to do later), how far back must I go on Kid's history to get it right? Day 2 (@ Generator)? Day 3? All I know is, I unlocked the part where you trip over Sara during Kick the Can and she's within kissing range, so I'm pretty sure I wooed her correctly (originally) even if I was aiming for Yuu. But that was the ONLY Sara wallpaper I unlocked. I have 1 Sara wallpaper, 1 Sora wallpaper, 0 Tsugumi, 0 Coco, 1 Takeshi, and then a shitton for Yuu.

The earliest push toward Sara's Path is probably the generator incident on the second day.

[big bad birtha]

Alright. I finished You's good path. It does leave alot of blank spots, but at the end it's like "This story is not yet at an end. You are in the infinity loop." or something like that. Anyway, I have come to a little conclusion about You's parents. Here goes.

I believe that You is actually her so called "mother"'s clone. I started thinking that whenever she appeared on the screen and said "I am not your mother, but you are indeed part of my flesh." It was also somewhat confirmed when she simply said "I am you." I believe that the mother and father who died was her original's parents. However, that is a half-baked conclusion I came up with. I don't know if I am right or not, but I am sure I will find out in time.

Now, I am on a new game, and I am Takeshi. I am going to aim for Sora's route. I have a question though. I have decided to listen to Coco's joke, and as a result, she is around. Am I still safe to go for Sora, or have I already screwed it up by listening to Coco instead of Sora?

One more question. What is up with the question marks that are out of place? I don't get it. There are question marks right in the middle of the text, and most of the time it is in the place of another word.

[Doppleganger]

I believe that You is actually her so called "mother"'s clone. I started thinking that whenever she appeared on the screen and said "I am not your mother, but you are indeed part of my flesh." It was also somewhat confirmed when she simply said "I am you." I believe that the mother and father who died was her original's parents. However, that is a half-baked conclusion I came up with. I don't know if I am right or not, but I am sure I will find out in time.


Yukie's status is really strange, but things should be somewhat clearer with a run through Takeshi's Route. What kills me about the epilogue is there's a positively explosive landmine in it, but people only think about the You-Yukie exchange and totally breeze over it.


Now, I am on a new game, and I am Takeshi. I am going to aim for Sora's route. I have a question though. I have decided to listen to Coco's joke, and as a result, she is around. Am I still safe to go for Sora, or have I already screwed it up by listening to Coco instead of Sora?


No.


One more question. What is up with the question marks that are out of place? I don't get it. There are question marks right in the middle of the text, and most of the time it is in the place of another word.

Game errors most likely, they're supposed to be "-" but get recalled as "?".

[Talon87]

Now, I am on a new game, and I am Takeshi. I am going to aim for Sora's route. I have a question though. I have decided to listen to Coco's joke, and as a result, she is around. Am I still safe to go for Sora, or have I already screwed it up by listening to Coco instead of Sora?

No.
It wasn't a Yes / No question, dude. >_< *pet peeve*

[Doppleganger]

>>Am I still safe to go for Sora

Yes.

>>or have I already screwed it up by listening to Coco instead of Sora?

No.

[Talon87]

Anyway, I want to ask Doppel to intentionally spoil me on this, so BBB, do not read his reply if you don't wish to be spoiled ... If I intend to pursue Tsugumi and Sara right now (Takeshi x Tsugumi , Kid x Sara), is there any reason for me to listen to Coco's joke? That is to say ... is listening to her joke simply a way to piss off Sora and to get yourself removed from Sora's good graces? Or is it more important than that? Is listening to Coco's joke crucial for getting her to be a more permanent part of the game and not this transient ghost?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BBB, I totally see where you're going with your theory about Yuu and her mother on the viewscreen. I had the exact same thought when I saw her -- "she looks like an older Yuu." However, I came to a different conclusion. I don't think Yuu is her mother's clone ... rather, if the time traveling aspect to this game is real ... I think Yuu's mother is Yuu. Like, Back to the Future-style, where there are two Marty McFly's in 1955 Hill Valley at once ... the first who arrived by accident in Movie 1, and the second who goes back there in Movie 2 to try and prevent Biff Tannen from betting abusing the Year 2000 Sports Almanac. Just my theory.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Forgot what else I was going to say. Look here if you see this reply in less than 10 minutes after it was submitted for a possible edit. Otherwise, I'll double-post.

[Doppleganger]

Anyway, I want to ask Doppel to intentionally spoil me on this, so BBB, do not read his reply if you don't wish to be spoiled ... If I intend to pursue Tsugumi and Sara right now (Takeshi x Tsugumi , Kid x Sara), is there any reason for me to listen to Coco's joke? That is to say ... is listening to her joke simply a way to piss off Sora and to get yourself removed from Sora's good graces? Or is it more important than that? Is listening to Coco's joke crucial for getting her to be a more permanent part of the game and not this transient ghost?


Your ultimate end is a result of your choices, all of which are dependent on one another. Rather, let's say that picking choices earn you "points" with certain people, and certain forgone opportunities result in either no points with another person or negative points. Sora will not backstab you later in the game for not listening to her explanation, especially since she goes over it again and in the second explanation there are opportunities to impress her. However, Tsugumi probably would fault you for not listening to Coco's joke.


BBB, I totally see where you're going with your theory about Yuu and her mother on the viewscreen. I had the exact same thought when I saw her -- "she looks like an older Yuu." However, I came to a different conclusion. I don't think Yuu is her mother's clone ... rather, if the time traveling aspect to this game is real ... I think Yuu's mother is Yuu. Like, Back to the Future-style, where there are two Marty McFly's in 1955 Hill Valley at once ... the first who arrived by accident in Movie 1, and the second who goes back there in Movie 2 to try and prevent Biff Tannen from betting abusing the Year 2000 Sports Almanac. Just my theory.


That was (essentially) my originally conclusion as well, since Yukie-You's relationship appeared to be simmilar to Archer-Shirou.

...

Talon pointed out something I hadn't thought of before, I'll need to think about it.

[Talon87]

BIG YUU OBSERVATION, POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR BBB?

Just to clarify, I am on DAY ONE of the accident. On Takeshi, trying to woo Tsugumi.

Observe my screencaps to see what I've observed. Note that the Japanese word for "spring" is Haru and the Japanese word for "autumn" is Aki. Also, look at my screencaps (and comments) in reverse order, since phpBB is being dumb and not letting me put them in the order in which I submitted them.

Also ... really confused/weirded out by the fact that Coco is a tangible, visible regular in Takeshi's path and it's Sara who is missing.

Also ... Doppel, you asked me what I thought was inside Sara's pendant. That was one of the things I had meant to reply to earlier but forgot all about. I still haven't solved that mystery, but I agree that it must be important. Also ... I completely forgot that Kid had a dream in which he saw himself clutching hands with Sara (in the midst of the accident, prior to you choosing to play as Kid or Takeshi), so ... yeah. Sara is obviously a big player in Kid's path. I look forward to wooing her down the road.

[Doppleganger]

Observe my screencaps to see what I've observed. Note that the Japanese word for "spring" is Haru and the Japanese word for "autumn" is Aki.


Very good! :11


It is a spoiler, though, since people going through You's Path are expecting her name to be Yubiseiharukana and yet it is never mentioned until right before the end, where Kid goes "huh? Is that right?" and You has to prove it to him that Yubiseiakikana is her real name. This won't be the last "season" type of clue either, there are simmilar ones coming up. Look for them!

[Talon87]

Doppel says my observation was a spoiler, so ... avoid, BBB, until Doppel confirms you've solved it too? :?

Why would they be expecting her name to be Yuubiseiharukana? The only answer I have is that you mean people who played as Takeshi first are expecting her name to be Yuubiseiharukana. And even then, I would say that if they are not Japanese nor have any formal training in Japanese language, they're S.O.L. Her name is so long that if you can't remember it for its sound-matching-to-meaning value (e.g. Yuu = Gentle, Bi = Beautiful), I don't think you have a chance. :?

[Doppleganger]

Why would they be expecting her name to be Yuubiseiharukana?

That is the question. ;)

[Talon87]

I just finished Day 1 with Takeshi. I'm trying to hit up Tsugumi while being as nice to Sora as possible. Sort of like how I did with Yuu and Sara on Kid's file. (I was always nice to Sara unless it was a Yuu vs. Sara scenario.) I'm hoping that this will give me the option of going back and replaying from Day (e.g.) 4 or 5 and get a Good End with Sora if it turns out that my decision to run with Tsugumi winds me up with a Bad End.

So ... spoiler thoughts! If using Mozilla Firefox, hold down the Ctrl button and then use your wheel on your mouse to make the small text legible. (About 5-6 scrolls should do it.) Otherwise, quote to read. Each section will be labeled "A", "B", "C", etc., so if you can't get size formatting to work within quote boxes for some reason, you can simply say, "With regards to Letter A ..."

I still have not figured out what Tsugumi is. Robot? Bionic woman? Lemurian? No idea.[/*:m:198c8]
I made the connection that "there are two LeMUs ... we're dealing with a rift in space-time, folks." It was courtesy of having played Kid's story mode and now playing Takeshi's. I got to see "Phantom Coco" in the room beneath the infirmary in Kid's route, and now I got to see "Real Coco" in that same room holding a conversation with "unknown" (but known to me, Talon, as the Kid in the other dimension!!!). I got to see Takeshi interrupt Coco in the Takeshi route, which was "Phantom Coco vanishing suddenly" in the Kid route. So yeah. There's a DEFINITE time-spatial-rift thing going on here. Coco exists inside one dimension, Sara exists inside the other, and the other five characters exist in both but are slightly different.[/*:m:198c8]
For instance, the fact that Kid in Kid's route has retrograde amnesia but that Kid in Takeshi's route has both retrograde *AND* anterograde amnesia, requiring him to use a notepad to keep track of people's names and place locations.[/*:m:198c8]
For instance, Tsugumi and Takeshi not getting along at all in Kid's route but them getting along completely in Takeshi's route (even if she is still cold and calculating).[/*:m:198c8]
In Kid's route, Tsugumi seemed to trust nobody and said "You're all acting just like you did before." I now believe that she's alluding to her experience in LeMU in the Takeshi route, and I have strong reason to believe that Yuu (the "Yuubiseiharukana" Yuu, the one of the Takeshi route) is a bad guy who knows way too much for her own good. She seems to be a lot more familiar with Sora than she was in the Kid route, and what's more, she tells us in the Takeshi route "I've only been working here for 4 days." PFFFFFFFFFFT, how could somebody who's worked here for 4 days be so buddy-buddy with the Chief Assistant of LeMU, Sora!?!?!? I don't buy it. I think Tsugumi (from Kid's route) is right -- the people onboard the station ARE out to kill her. Only problem is ... they were out to kill her on the Takeshi route, NOT on the Kid route.[/*:m:198c8]

[Doppleganger]

Talon, your speculative ventures have lead me to dig up a diamond when I was looking for gold. I'm off to the academy to flaunt my findings to my flabbergasted fellows!


I made the connection that "there are two LeMUs ... we're dealing with a rift in space-time, folks." It was courtesy of having played Kid's story mode and now playing Takeshi's. I got to see "Phantom Coco" in the room beneath the infirmary in Kid's route, and now I got to see "Real Coco" in that same room holding a conversation with "unknown" (but known to me, Talon, as the Kid in the other dimension!!!). I got to see Takeshi interrupt Coco in the Takeshi route, which was "Phantom Coco vanishing suddenly" in the Kid route. So yeah. There's a DEFINITE time-spatial-rift thing going on here. Coco exists inside one dimension, Sara exists inside the other, and the other five characters exist in both but are slightly different.


Well reasoned. I will note you should find a theme severely lacking in Takeshi's Route that was featured heavily in Kid's Route.

[big bad birtha]

Well, I am on day two of Takeshi's route while trying to go for Sora. However, I am having such a difficult time doing anything mean to Tsugumi. Like when they asked me if I should either look for Sora or fix the generator with Tsugumi, I chose to repair the generator with Tsugumi, because I already know that looking for Sora is pointless (I believe that knowledge isn't something I should've used in this case). I have to say, Tsugumi is the shiznit. I will so go for her next time if I didn't accidentally stray on her path already (if so, I will backtrack because I already made decisions that went right for Sora, meaning that Tsugumi's path will be phailure) ><.

There is another thing about this that is really strange. Tsugumi gets along really well with Coco =O. I don't know if there's any meaning in that, but I thought Tsugumi would hate Coco. I guess it's an "opposites attract" thing.

[Doppleganger]

Well, I am on day two of Takeshi's route while trying to go for Sora. However, I am having such a difficult time doing anything mean to Tsugumi. Like when they asked me if I should either look for Sora or fix the generator with Tsugumi, I chose to repair the generator with Tsugumi, because I already know that looking for Sora is pointless (I believe that knowledge isn't something I should've used in this case).


You don't have to be mean to her, just leave her alone. If you juggle between girls there's a strong chance you'll miss docking onto Sora's Path and get stuck with the Bad End...which is, well.

This is an interesting turn of events, though. Talon is gunning for Tsugumi, BBB Sora, both on Takeshi's Path. And both look to end up at the same point. :lol:


I have to say, Tsugumi is the shiznit. I will so go for her next time if I didn't accidentally stray on her path already (if so, I will backtrack because I already made decisions that went right for Sora, meaning that Tsugumi's path will be phailure) ><.


Talon made this observation earlier, and I'll formally address it here - a good observation. Tsugumi is much nicer in this scenario...why?


There is another thing about this that is really strange. Tsugumi gets along really well with Coco =O. I don't know if there's any meaning in that, but I thought Tsugumi would hate Coco.

A most excellent observation! Coco seems to brighten every room she's in...unless it happens to be that section beneath the Infimary. :)

[Talon87]

I've noticed that (if we call Kid's path "the base path" and Takeshi's path the deviant path, okay?) the people on Takeshi's path aren't 1:1 correspondence-ly matching up with people from Kid's path ... it's more of a mix. Examples ...

- the Sara from Kid's path has been absorbed into (in order of significance) (1) Coco, (2) Tsugumi, (3) Kid. For instance, Coco is the person who has totally replaced Sara; she's also the person who invents the nickname "Nakkyu" for Yuu. Tsugumi is the one who holds the deep, PC-genius conversation with Sora on Takeshi's path, and half of her facial expressions remind me of Sara's. And then as for Kid, he says "Nin! Nin!" during the Kick the Can event on Day 2. As we all know, "Nin! Nin!" was one of Sara's signature expressions on the Kid path.

- the Yuu on Takeshi's path seems to be a mix between Kid's Yuu and someone else, not entirely sure who

- Coco is largely "the replacement for Sara," but she has said many things so far which the Kid originally said on Kid's path. For instance, she's the one who says to Sora, "Let me get this straight ... you're saying that at best, we'll be gone by 4:40pm on May 7th. But the reverse also holds true! At the worst, we still have until 4:40pm on May 6th!"

- Tsugumi can't only be "part herself, part Sara" because of the important fact that she was the one on Takeshi's path who knew that the door would be hot. Since only Tsugumi and Takeshi were there, and since Kid (on Kid's path) has this premonition that he's seen this before and knows the door is scalding hot, this suggests that Tsugumi is "part Kid" and the Kid's-route Kid is "part Tsugumi."

I don't yet know to what extent this is simply the writers recasting lines to maintain character balance and to what extent this is the writers suggesting that the personalities have been split and rearranged between the two different dimensions. All I do know is, I'm observing a lot of people on Takeshi's path saying things or doing things that were done by other characters on Kid's path ... other characters who (in all cases but Coco/Sara) exist equally on both paths.

[Doppleganger]

I've noticed that (if we call Kid's path "the base path" and Takeshi's path the deviant path, okay?) the people on Takeshi's path aren't 1:1 correspondence-ly matching up with people from Kid's path ... it's more of a mix.

Not a "mix" so much as a different scenario. When playing visual novels, it's not unusual for situations to change drastically based on decisions made, but in this case the majority of changes were outside of the player's control, outside of picking either Kid or Takeshi to play as. I really didn't think much of the differences at first, though, aside from "how one situation's something explains what happens in the other situation which we don't see because we're playing as a different character". Sort of the Higurashi style of looking at puzzles.


- the Sara from Kid's path has been absorbed into (in order of significance) (1) Coco, (2) Tsugumi, (3) Kid. For instance, Coco is the person who has totally replaced Sara; she's also the person who invents the nickname "Nakkyu" for Yuu. Tsugumi is the one who holds the deep, PC-genius conversation with Sora on Takeshi's path, and half of her facial expressions remind me of Sara's. And then as for Kid, he says "Nin! Nin!" during the Kick the Can event on Day 2. As we all know, "Nin! Nin!" was one of Sara's signature expressions on the Kid path.


To clarify, Tsugumi is very intelligent, but she's not on the same level of skill that Sara is. Second only to perhaps Sora, Sara is the most intelligent person in the game.

You bring up something interesting regarding Kid, and no doubt he and Coco will do more stuff like that later on.


- the Yuu on Takeshi's path seems to be a mix between Kid's Yuu and someone else, not entirely sure who...


You is fundamentally the same, though she's less fiery and uptight than the You in Kid's Route. In fact, all of the characters save Sora and Takeshi are "wound up" in Kid's Route.


- Coco is largely "the replacement for Sara," but she has said many things so far which the Kid originally said on Kid's path. For instance, she's the one who says to Sora, "Let me get this straight ... you're saying that at best, we'll be gone by 4:40pm on May 7th. But the reverse also holds true! At the worst, we still have until 4:40pm on May 6th!"


Good!


- Tsugumi can't only be "part herself, part Sara" because of the important fact that she was the one on Takeshi's path who knew that the door would be hot. Since only Tsugumi and Takeshi were there, and since Kid (on Kid's path) has this premonition that he's seen this before and knows the door is scalding hot, this suggests that Tsugumi is "part Kid" and the Kid's-route Kid is "part Tsugumi."


Continue on that line of thinking, but not with just Tsugumi. If it's true information from certain characters "leak" into the Kid.

[big bad birtha]

Alrightey. I am on day three of Takeshi's path and going for Sora. Ok, something is crazy wrong about Kid. When he was counting, another one appeared right in front of us, completely oblivious to the game. I don't know what exactly is wrong, but I am taken aback by it. I won't make any stupid speculations about this, because I don't really know enough to make one. It probably has something to do with Sara because I remember something he said. He said "Nin! Nin! Ninja!"

Also, when I found Sora, I just had to smile at her. I found it very charming at how she was hiding behind the counter like that, and then acting like an employee in an attempt to fool me.

[Talon87]

Just reached the Takeshi start of Day 4. Use your mouse wheel (in Mozilla Firefox) to make the text below legible. 5-6 scrolls oughta do it.

I chose to tighten the two valves in the Clockwise direction both times. I have not gone back and tried the other three permutations to see if they result in a different path. Frankly, I'm sort of happy with the result I obtained -- Tsugumi being mortally wounded -- because it gave Takeshi the opportunity to play hero and save Tsugumi's life. Also, because she is healing radically quickly, it's revealing that Tsugumi is not all that she appears to be.

Because she did have a fractured femur and arteries requiring sutures, we can rule out that Tsugumi is a robot. Cyborg, maybe, but not a robot. I would say it's much more likely at this point that she is a "super soldier," like the kind we see in so many sci-fi stories, the military projects who have been genetically engineered to be superior to the human race in every sense of the word. Doppel does tell me, "Talon, Sara is smarter than Tsugumi," but still, the girl is clearly intelligent (unlike Kid's-path Takeshi) and she's also super strong.

When Sora asked me, "I have a secret to tell you. Will you come with me?" I chose Yes rather than No, because Yuu had just got done telling me that Tsugumi would not be awake for the next few days. I hope that that decision won't put me on the Bad End path for Takeshi x Tsugumi. :| Sora seemed particularly flirtatious ...

But hey! I did get a massive plot point out of it! :mrgreen: Sora revealed for fact what I've already hypothesized -- that there are two LeMUs, a Y-branch where you make a decision and depending on which you make you either go to Timeline A or Timeline B. The Y-branch here would appear to be the LeMU sirens going off and deciding who one wishes to play as -- Takeshi or Kid. And of course there are countless other Y branches each and every time we are posed with a choice between two questions to ask or decisions to make.

My save file on Day 4 still doesn't have anybody's name next to Takeshi's. Probably because I've been nice enough to Sora and Tsugumi and the game can't decide who to give me yet, or something. *shrug* Please Tsugumi. Even if it's a Bad End, I would like to try for a Tsugumi path.

I'm torn now, though, between pursuing Takeshi x Sora or Kid x Sara next. I had said I would do Kid x Sara, and I think I will, but I must admit that Takeshi x Sora does look fun.

Is there no way to do a Coco path until you've unlocked every other path, Doppel?

[Doppleganger]

Just a note - I replayed the Bad End (Takeshi) and discovered something ENORMOUSLY important that isn't revealed in any other path outside of Coco! It's really hard to pick up, though - I MIGHT point it out to you guys if one of you heads down there but doing so might give something away. Suffice to say, it's worth your while to go on the Bad End anyway - it had enough of an effect on me that I was scared to death of Himmel and was enraged at Coco's 'spectre' in the last parts of You's Path. It also made You's Path more worth-while for me since I had to struggle for so long to escape the nightmare that was LeMU.

When he was counting, another one appeared right in front of us, completely oblivious to the game. I don't know what exactly is wrong, but I am taken aback by it. I won't make any stupid speculations about this, because I don't really know enough to make one. It probably has something to do with Sara because I remember something he said. He said "Nin! Nin! Ninja!"

Ahh, yes. What exactly happened there is furious debate to this day, though I'm pretty sure I have a good hypothesis of the occurance. Shall not say, though.


Also, when I found Sora, I just had to smile at her. I found it very charming at how she was hiding behind the counter like that, and then acting like an employee in an attempt to fool me.

Osora-san. :)



Because she did have a fractured femur and arteries requiring sutures, we can rule out that Tsugumi is a robot. Cyborg, maybe, but not a robot. I would say it's much more likely at this point that she is a "super soldier," like the kind we see in so many sci-fi stories, the military projects who have been genetically engineered to be superior to the human race in every sense of the word. Doppel does tell me, "Talon, Sara is smarter than Tsugumi," but still, the girl is clearly intelligent (unlike Kid's-path Takeshi) and she's also super strong.



Tsugumi is stronger than any other character in the game, even Takeshi.



When Sora asked me, "I have a secret to tell you. Will you come with me?" I chose Yes rather than No, because Yuu had just got done telling me that Tsugumi would not be awake for the next few days. I hope that that decision won't put me on the Bad End path for Takeshi x Tsugumi. :| Sora seemed particularly flirtatious ...



Interesting, isn't it?



But hey! I did get a massive plot point out of it! :mrgreen: Sora revealed for fact what I've already hypothesized -- that there are two LeMUs, a Y-branch where you make a decision and depending on which you make you either go to Timeline A or Timeline B. The Y-branch here would appear to be the LeMU sirens going off and deciding who one wishes to play as -- Takeshi or Kid. And of course there are countless other Y branches each and every time we are posed with a choice between two questions to ask or decisions to make.


True, Sora's discussion applies to the situation, but only coincidentally - she also brought up the subject of time-space that You did as well. Frankly, even now I'm not sure how the physics/philosophy from Sora's Path is a "legend about LeMU's origins".

I've no access to my game, but from your position in the story, I believe there are two very important keys you over-looked, which I'll point out depending on your ending.



My save file on Day 4 still doesn't have anybody's name next to Takeshi's. Probably because I've been nice enough to Sora and Tsugumi and the game can't decide who to give me yet, or something. *shrug* Please Tsugumi. Even if it's a Bad End, I would like to try for a Tsugumi path.



Shouldn't kick in until Day 6 or so. The Shortcut menu claims Tsugumi/Sora's Paths begin on Day 4, but that's not true in practice - even if one selects "Tsugumi Day 4" or "Sora Day 4", the quick-save menus do not indicate any particular path and one could, if on Tsugumi's Path, still end up on the Bad End or Sora, or if on Sora, the Bad End.



I'm torn now, though, between pursuing Takeshi x Sora or Kid x Sara next. I had said I would do Kid x Sara, and I think I will, but I must admit that Takeshi x Sora does look fun.


Depends on your mood.


Is there no way to do a Coco path until you've unlocked every other path, Doppel?

Coco's Path can only be unlocked when all four Good Ends have been achieved. From there, you replay the game as normal but stuff happens and the scenario spirals out of control. I'd recommend that when both of you get to Coco's Path, you play as Kid, since Takeshi's viewpoint sucks, while Kid's is electric.

[Talon87]

Hmm. Two important keys I've overlooked? :? I dunno ... it may just be that I didn't think they were important enough to post about. Or that stuff I did think was important (like whether to turn the gas main Clockwise or Counterclockwise) was skipped over by you yourself in your reply. *shrug*

As an example of one possible "key" you may be thinking I missed but I simply didn't bother talking about, HOTDOGS. It's obvious that the two LeMUs are not simply "two divergent paths with their own unique space-time" but are rather "two divergent paths that occupy the same space" because of the issue of hotdogs and chicken sandwiches.

On Takeshi's path ...
- Takeshi finds hot dogs in the cooler, but there are only enough for one meal. He prepares them for early morning breakfast (at like 6am, way before the Kid-path team wakes up) and everybody eats his share of hotdogs until they're all gone.
- Kid finds two sandwiches on the bench and Takeshi says "Oh, those must be the ones I placed there." But he's already forgetting that he only put ONE there. Well anyway, Kid gives away the two sandwiches: one to Tsugumi, and the other to I-forget.

On Kid's path ...
- Takeshi finds hot dogs in the cooler, but they don't get around to cooking breakfast until after the group on Takeshi's path, and so when Takeshi opens the cooler, the hot dogs are missing, and Takeshi accuses Tsugumi of theft. Then he sees a rat later and everybody assumes the rat got to them instead.
- Kid finds two sandwiches on the bench and brings them back to the conference room. He gives one sandwich away, but as he reaches for the second ... it's gone. People accuse Kid of hallucinating, but he *knows* he had two sandwiches ...



I mean, there's a lot of stuff I could talk about, but I don't want to because it's time I could spend playing the game, so I only write those things where I want to hear your feedback. If there are any "keys" you think I've missed, I'd appreciate the most non-spoiler word or phrase you can think of to get me to talk about it. For example ... if you had wanted me to explain the hotdog thing I just explained, you could have said something like "hotdogs" or "sandwiches on the bench" and I'd have then replied.

By all means, please do so. :) Please try to think of a simple word or phrase to get me onto the same page you're on for our discussion. Otherwise, you're requiring me to fire off every little Sherlock Holmes observation I've made. :x

[Doppleganger]

Hmm. Two important keys I've overlooked? :? I dunno ... it may just be that I didn't think they were important enough to post about. Or that stuff I did think was important (like whether to turn the gas main Clockwise or Counterclockwise) was skipped over by you yourself in your reply. *shrug*


Regarding the second key, a while back, didn't I say something about Sora-Takeshi bringing up something in their discussion? The discussion in question is the one that occured at the Karussel Delfin.

As an example of one possible "key" you may be thinking I missed but I simply didn't bother talking about, HOTDOGS. It's obvious that the two LeMUs are not simply "two divergent paths with their own unique space-time" but are rather "two divergent paths that occupy the same space" because of the issue of hotdogs and chicken sandwiches.


Beer/tuna as well, but that's not the key unless there's some symbolic meaning to tuna. I doubt there is.


By all means, please do so. :) Please try to think of a simple word or phrase to get me onto the same page you're on for our discussion. Otherwise, you're requiring me to fire off every little Sherlock Holmes observation I've made. :x

Hmm. All I will say is, replay Day 2 after you've finished Tsugumi's Path. Both key and diamond appear on that day.

[Talon87]

*dislikes these riddles Doppel is speaking in :x *

Whatever, I'm just going to play the game.

[Talon87]

On late Day 6 of Takeshi's path. FINALLY gained "Takeshi x Tsugumi" status! :D :D :D

Spoilers in Size 8 font below. Requesting future spoilers be put in Size 6-8, too. Size 1 is just too damn small to scroll down to. :|

Man, the two paths are REALLY quite different, aren't they? :D On Kid's path, there's next to no mention of Tief Blau, whereas in Takeshi's path, it's not only hinted to be the cause of the evacuation (Sora screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOT TIEF BLAU!"), but is 100% proven to be it with Coco -- and subsequently Takeshi and Kid and Yuu -- all coming down with it! Holy shit! So the other people were evacuated, while those who had come into direct contact with Coco were quarantined.

Tsugumi seems to really love me, but we have a lot of fights where she violently departs with tears in her eyes. I don't know if that's just her being emotional or what, but I'll take her sincere concern about me coming down with Tief Blau, her emotional refusal to let me have access to her antibodies for fear I would come down with Cure, and my savefile saying "Takeshi/Tsugumi" as good signs. :D

HOORAY FOR GETTING INTO HIMMEL! :D

Doppel, I just thought I'd say that in Japanese, too, there is the connection between the words "heaven" and "sky." Different characters, though. The character for "Sora" is 空 and has the readings "Kuu" or "Sora" (or, more rarely, "Kara" and also the verb form "aku" 空� ). However, it only means Sky. Not Heaven. 天 , or Ten, is the character which means "Heaven." As in tensai　天�, tenshi　天使, tenchi　天地, or tenki　天気. As shown by the last word (meaning "weather"), Ten does have the dual meaning of not only Heaven but also Sky.

I don't know if this will significantly matter or not, especially since I did not attempt to try them out via Quick Save and see what would have happened if I had made alternative decisions, but ...

- I punched Kid in the face when he was talking suicide.
- I asked Tsugumi and then Sora about how to open HIMMEL's door.
- When Sora asked me if we were ready to go even though we could not retrace our steps once we moved on, I selected "Yes, let's go!" rather than the "Hmm, let's hold on a sec ..." option.

Regarding statues ... Coco was carving the South-pointing statue this time, not the East-pointing statue! Very peculiar, especially since there should only be one Coco between both dimensions and (therefore) only one carver with only one carving.

Regarding Chami ... so that's who the rat is, and why he would be included on Coco's carving! I guessed correctly that the 2nd animal was the rat, didn't I? :) ......... even if it wasn't entirely for the right reasons :oops: ...

Also regarding Chami ... HOLY SHIT 8O , I can't believe she did that to Chami. Even if he is infected by Cure, still ...!

If I remember anything else, I'll be sure to post it. But for now ... time to beat the game! And hope I don't get a Bad End! :oops:

[Doppleganger]

On late Day 6 of Takeshi's path. FINALLY gained "Takeshi x Tsugumi" status! :D :D :D

Congrats! Quite an accomplishment, that.


Man, the two paths are REALLY quite different, aren't they? :D On Kid's path, there's next to no mention of Tief Blau, whereas in Takeshi's path, it's not only hinted to be the cause of the evacuation (Sora screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOT TIEF BLAU!"), but is 100% proven to be it with Coco -- and subsequently Takeshi and Kid and Yuu -- all coming down with it! Holy shit! So the other people were evacuated, while those who had come into direct contact with Coco were quarantined.


Do not read this until you finish Tsugumi's Path.


No, nobody knew Coco had it, because no one knew the virus had been leaked somehow (which was the accident). Someone died in the IBF and that scared the crack out of the scientists, who evacuated the facility as quickly as they could - notice all the the escape vessels had been taken. When that happened, someone panicked and went through LeMU to get to the surface, which is what caused the leak of air-pressure and the eventual flooding of the complex. Takeshi, You, and Kid were unfortunate to have been held up with Coco, since she unknowingly contaminated them with the virus. Takeshi, Kid, and You were both blessed and cursed to be trapped with Coco and Tsugumi.


Tsugumi seems to really love me, but we have a lot of fights where she violently departs with tears in her eyes. I don't know if that's just her being emotional or what, but I'll take her sincere concern about me coming down with Tief Blau, her emotional refusal to let me have access to her antibodies for fear I would come down with Cure, and my savefile saying "Takeshi/Tsugumi" as good signs. :D

Yup, it's love.


HOORAY FOR GETTING INTO HIMMEL! :D


NO I HATE THAT PLACE.

HATE HATE HATE.


Doppel, I just thought I'd say that in Japanese, too, there is the connection between the words "heaven" and "sky." Different characters, though. The character for "Sora" is 空 and has the readings "Kuu" or "Sora" (or, more rarely, "Kara" and also the verb form "aku" 空� ). However, it only means Sky. Not Heaven. 天 , or Ten, is the character which means "Heaven." As in tensai　天�, tenshi　天使, tenchi　天地, or tenki　天気. As shown by the last word (meaning "weather"), Ten does have the dual meaning of not only Heaven but also Sky.


Take note of that! It is important for later on.


- I punched Kid in the face when he was talking suicide.
- I asked Tsugumi and then Sora about how to open HIMMEL's door.
- When Sora asked me if we were ready to go even though we could not retrace our steps once we moved on, I selected "Yes, let's go!" rather than the "Hmm, let's hold on a sec ..." option.


I never picked option #1, in ANY of my games - I didn't have the heart to do it. :(


Regarding statues ... Coco was carving the South-pointing statue this time, not the East-pointing statue! Very peculiar, especially since there should only be one Coco between both dimensions and (therefore) only one carver with only one carving.



Good, good.


Regarding Chami ... so that's who the rat is, and why he would be included on Coco's carving! I guessed correctly that the 2nd animal was the rat, didn't I? :) ......... even if it wasn't entirely for the right reasons :oops: ...


Yup. And hence my hint from earlier, I think - if Sora had been monitoring on the second day, she wouldn't have seen Takeshi, Sara, and You (in Kid's Route) or Takeshi and Tsugumi (in Takeshi's Route) in the generator room because of the heat. Hence, Tsugumi could hide Chami because he was on her person.


Also regarding Chami ... HOLY SHIT 8O , I can't believe she did that to Chami. Even if he is infected by Cure, still ...!

Yeah. ;_;

[Talon87]

Wow. I just beat it. I was in such disbelief that this was the "Good End" that I had to confirm it with my own eyes. Yup. *see attachment below*

I am very happy with the end because ... I've said it once, I've said it a thousand thousand thousand times -- I'm a huge sucker for tragic romances!. For that reason, I can 100% predict that BBB will hate the "Good End" of Tsugumi's path. However ... I wasn't entirely happy with the logic of it, myself. ^_^; For example ...

1 - Takeshi swallows some of Tsugumi's blood the day they kiss. Um ... *hint hint* , why wasn't she more aware of this after being so hyper-sensitive about it all game?

2 - Why couldn't he have at least attempted to swim vertically? :| He didn't even try.

3 - Um ... most people float when they are deeper than 10 feet under water, especially 10 feet beneath the sea, since the salinity and coldness of deep ocean water makes it really dense. So ... Takeshi sinking deeper and deeper made no sense at all. :| He should have fired upwards like a rocket. And exploded. >_<

4 - Which reminds me ... the scene where he bolts out of the decompression chamber and back into HIMMEL/LeMU was really ridiculous. 12.5 atm to 1 atm, and you're telling me his head didn't explode? :? Yeah right.

Anyway ... score one for the Tal-man! :D Without using any online aides or anything ... without doing anything but playing the game by myself and then reporting my thoughts and feelings here at UPN ... I am 2 for 2 for Good Ends and 0 for 2 for Bad Ends. w007 w007! :D And one of those good ends is the notoriously difficult Tsugumi! 8) :twisted: 8)

*BBB and Doppel both cough, loudly*

:oops: ... okay, so maybe I did have a little help from my two friends here. Take a bow, gentlemen!

*BBB and Doppel begin to bow, but ...*

Okay, enough of that! More praise for me! :D

j/k ;) ... but I am excited I got the good end on my first try without ever having to backtrack. :D

[Talon87]

Now ... some important observations. Doppel, again, please try to use larger fonts than size 1. If you use Size 8, it becomes legible within 5 clicks of the mouse wheel. If you use size 1, even if I keep doing it until the avatar box takes up the full screen, size 1 is still not legible. :| Copying and pasting text is a chore because (when in size 1 and in quotes) I can't seem to highlight past that sentence. :| And quoting is also a chore because the text loses all of its formatting. If you don't plan on trying it out, state so so I leave you alone.

Question 1: what is the terabyte disc found in Pipi's mouth? :? (Rhetorical question; I don't want an actual answer! @_@) I mean ... somebody had to stuff that in there and put him under the table. O_o;

Question 2: Why did Pipi die? :? I mean ... we saw him being immune to Tief Blau the entire time. Coco loves her dog Pipi, so I can't imagine her willingly leaving the station without it. Sort of makes you wonder if the "rescue squad" that came to save everybody really did save them or not. :( After all ... we didn't technically get to hear Yuu's, Kid's, or Coco's voices. Just the military dude. For all we know, they may have gassed them and killed Pipi for safe measure. :(

Question 3: Seeing as Takeshi and Tsugumi assumed Pipi was dead ... why did they bring him along? O_o Did they simply not want to abandon him to LeMU? Or did they think that maybe -- maybe -- he wasn't dead after all?

Question 4: Is it a coincidence or not that Coco's father's initials were "T.Y.", i.e. Tanaka Yukie, the same name as Yuu's mother? Or [Tanaka?] Yoichiro, the same initials as her father? Makes you wonder ... is Coco's dad on the Takeshi path also Yuu's dad from the Kid path? Did he slipstream or something?

Observation 1: Kid's dream on the Kid path about the capsule with the black ooze pouring from it was the same place as IML's lab! :o

Observation 2: and the hallway he saw in his dream on the Kid path is the same hallway we walk down in IML!

[Talon87]

http://www.mediafire.com/?70i9r9tjtgn

Doppel was right ... it took a while, but I have finally fallen in love with the song. Can't say I feel the same way about most of the other songs, though. :| Just this one and "Karma" (the melody you here when looking at the main menu ... also the really heart-breaking song that plays when Takeshi says goodbye to Tsugumi for the last time :cry:).

But yeah. This song rocks. :) ;)

Too bad I'm too sad to play the game right now. ;_;

[Doppleganger]

Wow. I just beat it. I was in such disbelief that this was the "Good End" that I had to confirm it with my own eyes. Yup. *see attachment below*


SURPRISE! :twisted:


For that reason, I can 100% predict that BBB will hate the "Good End" of Tsugumi's path.



Oh, somehow I doubt he'll be as shocked as you may think. ;)



1 - Takeshi swallows some of Tsugumi's blood the day they kiss. Um ... *hint hint* , why wasn't she more aware of this after being so hyper-sensitive about it all game?


1. When was that? Day 6/5? Even then, what you just picked up on is massively important.


2 - Why couldn't he have at least attempted to swim vertically? :| He didn't even try.


2. Impossible. Remember, there's fifty feet of ocean in between each level of LeMU and something like one hundred feet between Dritte Stock and the IBF. The total distance from the ocean floor there to the surface is three hundred and fifty three feet, if I remember correctly - basically a thirty five story building. Could anyone swim the length of Big Ben upward? Not even Tsugumi could do it, and she's a Cure.


3 - Um ... most people float when they are deeper than 10 feet under water, especially 10 feet beneath the sea, since the salinity and coldness of deep ocean water makes it really dense. So ... Takeshi sinking deeper and deeper made no sense at all. :| He should have fired upwards like a rocket. And exploded. >_<


I believe he was fired from the sub, then drowned. I'll have to replay to make sure.


4 - Which reminds me ... the scene where he bolts out of the decompression chamber and back into HIMMEL/LeMU was really ridiculous. 12.5 atm to 1 atm, and you're telling me his head didn't explode? :? Yeah right.


That one is easy to answer. CURE! Apparently the virus somehow makes immediate adjustments for pressure, such that Tsugumi never needed to be in any chamber to get adjusted for transitions to places of greater or lower pressure. There's some head throbbing but ultimately recovery is quite rapid. Tsugumi had kissed Takeshi by that time AND given him her antibodies, so the Cure was more developed in Takeshi than the other characters. He was only able to survive that because of Cure, and is also likely the reason for why he didn't explode when leaving Tsugumi's sub.


Anyway ... score one for the Tal-man! :D Without using any online aides or anything ... without doing anything but playing the game by myself and then reporting my thoughts and feelings here at UPN ... I am 2 for 2 for Good Ends and 0 for 2 for Bad Ends. w007 w007! :D And one of those good ends is the notoriously difficult Tsugumi! 8) :twisted: 8)


Now play Sara's Path. I do not think you are in any condition to play any other right now.

:oops: ... okay, so maybe I did have a little help from my two friends here. Take a bow, gentlemen!


orz


Question 1: what is the terabyte disc found in Pipi's mouth? :? (Rhetorical question; I don't want an actual answer! @_@) I mean ... somebody had to stuff that in there and put him under the table. O_o;


Mum's the word. :D


Question 2: Why did Pipi die? :? I mean ... we saw him being immune to Tief Blau the entire time. Coco loves her dog Pipi, so I can't imagine her willingly leaving the station without it. Sort of makes you wonder if the "rescue squad" that came to save everybody really did save them or not. :( After all ... we didn't technically get to hear Yuu's, Kid's, or Coco's voices. Just the military dude. For all we know, they may have gassed them and killed Pipi for safe measure. :(



Could dogs adjust that well to such sudden changes in pressure, even with treatment? I'd imagine animals to be more sensitive than humans.


Question 3: Seeing as Takeshi and Tsugumi assumed Pipi was dead ... why did they bring him along? O_o Did they simply not want to abandon him to LeMU? Or did they think that maybe -- maybe -- he wasn't dead after all?



Uh, well, I'd imagine Coco would cry her heart out when she got to the surface that her dog had been left to die deep underwater. Both Takeshi and Tsugumi have a soft-spot for Coco, so...they wouldn't want to cause her grief.


Question 4: Is it a coincidence or not that Coco's father's initials were "T.Y.", i.e. Tanaka Yukie, the same name as Yuu's mother? Or [Tanaka?] Yoichiro, the same initials as her father? Makes you wonder ... is Coco's dad on the Takeshi path also Yuu's dad from the Kid path? Did he slipstream or something?


It's a coincidence. The researcher is not who he appears to be, though.


Observation 1: Kid's dream on the Kid path about the capsule with the black ooze pouring from it was the same place as IML's lab! :o


Well done!


Observation 2: and the hallway he saw in his dream on the Kid path is the same hallway we walk down in IML!


Again, good find. Hence why I was scared of Himmel/pissed off at Coco in Kid's Path - she was, to quote myself, "beckoning my character to his death".

[big bad birtha]

Awww.....Suigin's already done? God damnit! I was hoping that I would finish first, but nooooooo I have a stupid job now to keep me from constant entertainment.

Anyway, I am about to finish day three, and Sora explained something to me that is well....himitsu *winks*(is that how I spell it?). Oh, Suigin, did Tsugumi get injured in your game? I was wondering, because I am still not sure whos path I am on. It's difficult to tell, since I am being thrown into both Sora and Tsugumi scenes.

EDIT: N/M. I am pretty sure that I am on Sora's. I just got through with a deep conversation with her about what love means.

One more question. Is it good to always know the answer to a problem? Like if they ask if you know something, is it always good to say "Yes I know."? Just curious.

[Doppleganger]

BBB AVOID WHAT TALON SAYS AT ALL COSTS, YOU ARE IN GRAVE DANGER.

...

In any matter, Tsugumi is injured regardless of whose path one is on.

...

BBB - usually, it is always better to look smarter than dumber, but I ask you answer truthfully whenever you can.

[Talon87]

In response to Doppel about pressurization:
Doppel, your answer to Q4 is not satisfactory (yet?). :? IIRC, the first (and only) time Takeshi and Tsugumi finally kiss and make love is on Day 7, after Takeshi has fetched her from the surface, said goodbye to Sora one last time, and gone back down below to IML. It is for certain (having just done it) during that scene where he says he's hungry and says ... "it's you, Tsugumi! You smell good!", bites her finger, and then sucks on it. Tsugumi then comments, "omg, it's bleeding!" and Takeshi's coyly like, "Oh, is it? ;)" and, for no good reason, she doesn't freak out at all. You'd think she'd have freaked massively.

Also, I dunno what you know about separating out antibodies from blood serum, but ... I've done it in college labs. It can be done, and you can (quite easily) separate the antibodies against Tief Blau from the Cure virus. Very, very easily. So unless Yuu screwed up (which there is no canonical reason for me to believe yet, if ever), then we must assume that Takeshi lacks the Cure. The reason he got better is because of the antibodies against TB, not because he got Cured.

Currently on Sara's path Day 3. Basically clicking the Enter key like crazy. I started from Day 1 so I could negatively reply to Yuu and Sora while positively replying to Sara. So far, I've gotten Sara to sing my finger a lullaby :lol: , and I know Kick the Can can't be too far off.

[Doppleganger]

Doppel, your answer to Q4 is not satisfactory (yet?). :? IIRC, the first (and only) time Takeshi and Tsugumi finally kiss and make love is on Day 7, after Takeshi has fetched her from the surface, said goodbye to Sora one last time, and gone back down below to IML. It is for certain (having just done it) during that scene where he says he's hungry and says ... "it's you, Tsugumi! You smell good!", bites her finger, and then sucks on it. Tsugumi then comments, "omg, it's bleeding!" and Takeshi's coyly like, "Oh, is it? ;)" and, for no good reason, she doesn't freak out at all. You'd think she'd have freaked massively.

In Tsugumi's Path -

Takeshi is drenched by her blood following his rescue of her from the store-room, he gets a mouthful of her blood later on, they have sex in both Qualle AND in the IBF, Takeshi gets her antibodies in IBF and he sucks her blood. A lot of the other players have said, "uhh, I don't think Cure can be transferred sexually" because of the obvious implication that Tsugumi would likely have been raped so someone could get the virus. However, I believe like the AIDS virus, a lot of fluid exchange would facilitate the spread of infection.


Also, I dunno what you know about separating out antibodies from blood serum, but ... I've done it in college labs. It can be done, and you can (quite easily) separate the antibodies against Tief Blau from the Cure virus. Very, very easily. So unless Yuu screwed up (which there is no canonical reason for me to believe yet, if ever), then we must assume that Takeshi lacks the Cure. The reason he got better is because of the antibodies against TB, not because he got Cured.

No comment.


Currently on Sara's path Day 3. Basically clicking the Enter key like crazy. I started from Day 1 so I could negatively reply to Yuu and Sora while positively replying to Sara. So far, I've gotten Sara to sing my finger a lullaby :lol: , and I know Kick the Can can't be too far off.

Ahh, you're on Sara's Path. That's good...I'd be shocked if you went after the Bad End following what you just went through.

[Talon87]

Okay, you've reminded/convinced me about [you know what] getting into [you know where] before Day 7, *BUT* you haven't convinced me that _u_e developed so suddenly. Why? Because, Tsugumi herself said it -- it takes 5 years for every cell to become affected, so ... a person in _______'s position should still have been in serious trouble after decompressioning so suddenly. Instead of 5 years, they only had 5 days. (worded vaguely enough to avoid our annoying pseudo-spoiler tag)

[Doppleganger]

Okay, you've reminded/convinced me about [you know what] getting into [you know where] before Day 7, *BUT* you haven't convinced me that _u_e developed so suddenly. Why? Because, Tsugumi herself said it -- it takes 5 years for every cell to become affected, so ... a person in _______'s position should still have been in serious trouble after decompressioning so suddenly. Instead of 5 years, they only had 5 days. (worded vaguely enough to avoid our annoying pseudo-spoiler tag)

I want to say what I know but cannot. All I will say is, I believe there is a detailled explanation of "it" in Coco's Path.

[Talon87]

Then here's something I don't understand ... how is Takeshi different from Chami? After all, Chami was SQUEEZED TO DEATH WITH BLOOD GOING EVERYWHERE, so I wonder how it is that he could come back to life (despite becoming "a ragged mess of fur") while Takeshi could be so easily killed off as "drowned." :? Wouldn't Kuranari Takeshi technically be alive ........ but at the bottom of the ocean?

[big bad birtha]

OMG. I just LOLed really hard at something Sora just said. Here's the quote. "The hell?! 'ssif I can do som'n like that right away?! I'll kill you, you bastard!" Nothin' quite like Sora acting like a Yankee.

Anyway, I am half-way past day four. Tsugumi has miraculously recovered and I'm playing teacher with Sora.

[Doppleganger]

Then here's something I don't understand ... how is Takeshi different from Chami? After all, Chami was SQUEEZED TO DEATH WITH BLOOD GOING EVERYWHERE, so I wonder how it is that he could come back to life (despite becoming "a ragged mess of fur") while Takeshi could be so easily killed off as "drowned." :? Wouldn't Kuranari Takeshi technically be alive ........ but at the bottom of the ocean?

Cure beings are remarkably sturdy, but they are not immortal. They can be killed in a number of ways, one of which is drowning - if one's lungs are filled with water, it doesn't matter how adaptable a Cure's body is, she will die. Tsugumi knows this, I believe, but hasn't had the courage to drown herself, although she hints she's tried to kill herself in other ways. As I said before, there is a much more detailled expose on Cure in Coco's Path

OMG. I just LOLed really hard at something Sora just said. Here's the quote. "The hell?! 'ssif I can do som'n like that right away?! I'll kill you, you bastard!" Nothin' quite like Sora acting like a Yankee.

Osora-san. :cry:

How much I pine for thee. ;_;

[Talon87]

I forgot to mention one of the major plot points in Tsugumi's arc yesterday, but thanks to the same issue popping up again in the Kid x Sara route, I remembered and will mention it here.

In the Takeshi x Tsugumi route, we find out that Tsugumi was hospitalized in a LeMU research facility "somewhere in America" (she claims) where they were studying her and her Cure. She said that there was a boy in the bed next to hers who could see the future. That boy ... is Kid.

Now, in the Takeshi x Tsugumi arc, that last statement is never actually confirmed. You are simply left to guess that that is correct. But here in the Kid x Sara route, it is confirmed -- Kid enters a small room that reminds him of the hospital ward, and he has a painful "flashback" (if it can be called that) of a girl being beaten by LeMU staff to get her to tell them where the Kid has escaped to. This is because (as we know from Tsugumi's story on the Takeshi route) the Kid did run away one day, never to be seen or heard from again.

Anyway ... it all makes sense now. The reason Kid looks so young (like a 14 to 15 year old) is because he probably has Cure, too. Just like Tsugumi. So he's permanently stuck at that age. The only thing left for me to discover is whether or not the girl in the hospital ward, in the Kid x Sara route, is still Tsugumi or if, in this alternate timeline, it's actually Sara.

The other thing I forgot to mention yesterday regarding Tsugumi's storyline is ...
I think I figured out why the game is called "Ever 17." It's because Tsugumi (who may arguably be "the main female character", though really, all the girls matter) is permanently stuck at the age of 17. Hence "[For]ever 17." Of course, I could be off, still, since the year in which our story takes place is 2017 and they keep talking about "the infinity loop," but this is my current theory as to why the game is called what it's called.

Anyway, I'm halfway through Day 3 on the Sara path. It feels so weird to be playing through Kid's path and rejecting Yuu left and right; last time, I did everything that was nice to her, and I can't shake the bias of feeling that my first runthrough of the game (Kid x Yuu) is "the canonical story" with all the other paths being deviations. ^_^; But anyway, I chose to go with Tsugumi, Takeshi, and Sara to the warehouse rather than going to check up on Yuu (hence why I got to discover the reverie sequence explained above), so I'm guessing this means that I probably won't get to do much with Yuu and her attempts to hack into LeMMIH. I still have Kid-only status, but hey, it's Day 3, and I did get to re-see the part where Kid trips over Sara and nearly kisses her, so I'm guessing it's still all good.

[Doppleganger]

Now, in the Takeshi x Tsugumi arc, that last statement is never actually confirmed. You are simply left to guess that that is correct. But here in the Kid x Sara route, it is confirmed -- Kid enters a small room that reminds him of the hospital ward, and he has a painful "flashback" (if it can be called that) of a girl being beaten by [Leiblich] staff to get her to tell them where the Kid has escaped to. This is because (as we know from Tsugumi's story on the Takeshi route) the Kid did run away one day, never to be seen or heard from again.




A fine conjecture - indeed, the facilities are the same and Tsugumi, Sara, and Kid were all held up there, though I'm more inclined to think the lab was in Germany and not America. That boy's powers, or something simmilar, are elaborated on in Coco's Path.




Anyway ... it all makes sense now. The reason Kid looks so young (like a 14 to 15 year old) is because he probably has Cure, too. Just like Tsugumi. So he's permanently stuck at that age.


As you have guessed, Kid is another test subject of Leiblich Pharmacuetical and is contaminated by Cure, but he does not have all of the "attributes" of a Cure like Tsugumi. She is a unique case.


I think I figured out why the game is called "Ever 17." It's because Tsugumi (who may arguably be "the main female character", though really, all the girls matter) is permanently stuck at the age of 17. Hence "[For]ever 17." Of course, I could be off, still, since the year in which our story takes place is 2017 and they keep talking about "the infinity loop," but this is my current theory as to why the game is called what it's called.


Correct.


I still have Kid-only status, but hey, it's Day 3, and I did get to re-see the part where Kid trips over Sara and nearly kisses her, so I'm guessing it's still all good.

...

[Talon87]

Halfway through Day 4 on the Kid x Sara path. I have "Kid/Sara" status, and I've learned more about Sara's character then I would have ever imagined. She's one of my new favorite characters, and I am even more amazed than I was several days ago that she is completely absent from the Takeshi path. I mean, even Coco has at least some presence in the Kid path. Sara is just completely, entirely cut out from the moment you choose to be Takeshi onward. Really unfortunate. I can't help wishing that the game would have been more like ... every kid but Coco has a doppelganger in the other LeMU, but Coco is shared between the two LeMUs and shifts her existence between the two planes, or something. Oh well. Can't change the story now, now can I?

Stuff about Sara ...
1. We've pretty much learned she is DEFINITELY one of the Lab Kids along with Kid and Tsugumi. Still hasn't been definitively stated, but we more or less know it to be true.

2. Only Kid and Sara can see the hologram, suggesting that it's something that only people with a special ability can do. Takeshi and Yuu failed to see anything.

3. Sara with her lullaby ... that is going to come up as one of the Lab Kid memories, I know it. Still hasn't happened yet, though.

Here's a question regarding Tief Blau ...
Since Coco isn't in the Kid path once the station is evacuated (we can assume that, if she did exist in the Kid path, she never got trapped down below with the others) ... does that mean that Tief Blau is not a concern of any kind for the kids in the Kid Path? :? Is that why the rescue team is only too happy to rescue the kids once they escape in Yuu's path -- because they're not infected with Tief Blau? :? If that's the case, then I'd be curious to know what the cause of them being shut inside for seven days was in the Kid version ...

[Doppleganger]

Since Coco isn't in the Kid path once the station is evacuated (we can assume that, if she did exist in the Kid path, she never got trapped down below with the others) ... does that mean that Tief Blau is not a concern of any kind for the kids in the Kid Path? :? Is that why the rescue team is only too happy to rescue the kids once they escape in Yuu's path -- because they're not infected with Tief Blau? :? If that's the case, then I'd be curious to know what the cause of them being shut inside for seven days was in the Kid version ...

Tief Blau has been confined to the IBF. The reason Sora acknowleged the existance of the IBF beyond Himmel in Takeshi's Route was because she reasoned that everyone else would have likely gotten infected by Coco and that the facilities down there would be better suited for treating the problem. Hence, without the problem of Tief Blau there was no reason to go down to the IBF and miss the transmission in the control room from Ensel Null.

[Talon87]

On to Day 6 of the Kid x Sara route. Wow. Questions for Doppel ...

Is Kid's identity the same no matter who you play as? Or does his identity depend on which path you take? (e.g. on the Sara path, Kid is revealed to be ________, but I'm wondering if on the Sora path he would be revealed to be somebody completely different)

Also ... doesn't Kid's identity sort of require Sara to exist in the Takeshi route? :?

[Talon87]

On to Day 6 of the Kid x Sara route. Wow. Questions for Doppel ...

Is Kid's identity the same no matter who you play as? Or does his identity depend on which path you take? (e.g. on the Sara path, Kid is revealed to be ________, but I'm wondering if on the Sora path he would be revealed to be somebody completely different)

Also ... doesn't Kid's identity sort of require Sara to exist in the Takeshi route? :?

================================================== =

Update: just beat the Kid x Sara path. I can't believe I made it THIS FAR and, at the last second, I make the wrong choice and get the bad end. XD :lol: Fair warning, BBB! Even if you do everything right, it all comes down to a 50-50 shot in the end!

So I have my first ever Bad End (booooo :x), and I have three Good Ends now. I do have a question for Doppel, though ... for Sara, it says I have unlocked three ends: Good, Bad, and Epilogue. So my question is, if I go back and do the Bad End for Yuu and Tsugumi, will I unlock their epilogues, too? Or is Sara one of the few characters with an epilogue? Also ... can you please direct me as to where I need to go to do the Bad End? :? I really don't want to have to do Yuu or Tsugumi's stories all over again, so I can try and replay them from save files I have OR by using the Shortcut System, whichever you think is best, so long as you give me an estimate (accurate to the day #) of where I need to go to make the Bad End decision.

[Doppleganger]

Is Kid's identity the same no matter who you play as? Or does his identity depend on which path you take? (e.g. on the Sara path, Kid is revealed to be ________, but I'm wondering if on the Sora path he would be revealed to be somebody completely different)

The nature of Kid and Coco is not revealed in Takeshi's Route, they're not the focus characters. For the routes you can play as him, he is the same person, which was hinted at by Sara during You's Path (she put together the puzzle - smart girl!).


Also ... doesn't Kid's identity sort of require Sara to exist in the Takeshi route? :?

Yes and no.


So my question is, if I go back and do the Bad End for Yuu and Tsugumi, will I unlock their epilogues, too? Or is Sara one of the few characters with an epilogue? Also ... can you please direct me as to where I need to go to do the Bad End? :? I really don't want to have to do Yuu or Tsugumi's stories all over again, so I can try and replay them from save files I have OR by using the Shortcut System, whichever you think is best, so long as you give me an estimate (accurate to the day #) of where I need to go to make the Bad End decision.

I'm not sure what you mean. You should have already gotten You's epilogue - if you didn't, it's possible you might not have gotten enough love points with her? I'm not sure how that works. You can easily get her Bad End by getting onto her path and answering everything wrong - starting from Day 3 and missing the paper puzzle is a good start. Tsugumi and Sora both have the same Bad End. It's fairly easy to get it when leaving Tsugumi's Path - you merely have to start paying more attention to Sora (for this, I'd suggest go for Sora's Path first, then take the Bad End route last). Tsugumi and Sora's epilogue cannot be unlocked until you complete Coco's Path, but...IT SUCKS. Nothing new is revealed, it's surreal and in German. =_=

[Talon87]

I just replayed Yuu's path from Day 6 onward before you wrote that, and I've finished just now, and I can say, yeah, I dunno why or how it happened, but I must have missed out on Yuu's epilogue last time somehow. O_o Because this time, I chose to talk about the Third Eye instead of Yuu (Day 6, changing room, when you think Takeshi has broken in there to rape Yuu or some crazy shit), which you would think would be negative points. And then I chose to talk to Tsugumi instead of Yuu as my final choice of the game. Yet this time, I unlocked the epilogue. Go me? :) :oops:

YUU'S EPILOGUE WAS AWESOME, HOLY SHIT. :O So it basically does confirm that BBB was right about Yuu's mother being Yuu ... somehow. Dunno if it's her clone or her time-shifted self or what, but ... we know Dr. Tanaka is Yuu. Weird.

Also, it was interesting to see the Kid get so much taller. lol, from Sara's path, we know he's older than 16, and yet he looked 14 to 15. Now he's 18, and he looks 18. Funny how that happens. :)

I think I may be burnt out on Ever 17 though, truth be told. :) I enjoyed playing it, but it's not my baby like it is for you, man. :) BBB has a love for Kanon which none of us can rival ... I had a similar passion for Chobits (past tense, since I really haven't done much with Chobits in a year or two, but I still honor it + feel it's the best anime I've ever seen) ... and for you? Well, it's obvious. Ever 17 is like ... like ten times what FSN was to you. And FSN was pretty big.

I decided to play this game as your friend -- because I see us friends ... or at least, as friendly as we can get through a webforum -- but now I think the time has come for me to put Ever 17 down for a while and call it quits. Maybe I'll pick it back up in December when I get the chance and try to beat Sora's and Coco's paths. And maybe not. Regardless, I am honored to have made Ever 17 the first visual novel I have ever beaten, and the 2nd (right on Narcissu's heels) I've ever really played. (Looking at FSN and Tsukihime over a friend's shoulders hardly counts. :oops: )

Maybe my mood will change later tonight or early tomorrow. But for now ... I'm looking at this as "I've only got 36 hours left of summer vacation." Time to spend them on a few last-second things, I think. ^_^;

[Doppleganger]

I decided to play this game as your friend -- because I see us friends ... or at least, as friendly as we can get through a webforum -- but now I think the time has come for me to put Ever 17 down for a while and call it quits. Maybe I'll pick it back up in December when I get the chance and try to beat Sora's and Coco's paths. And maybe not. Regardless, I am honored to have made Ever 17 the first visual novel I have ever beaten, and the 2nd (right on Narcissu's heels) I've ever really played. (Looking at FSN and Tsukihime over a friend's shoulders hardly counts. :oops: )


I am honored. You've earned your break - Sora and Coco will be waiting for you when you come back. Just don't get spoiled in the meantime! D:


Maybe my mood will change later tonight or early tomorrow. But for now ... I'm looking at this as "I've only got 36 hours left of summer vacation." Time to spend them on a few last-second things, I think. ^_^;

Now here I am forgetting you're on the other side of the coast, where it's already early in the morning tomorrow. :O

[Talon87]

Huh? :? I'm back in Indiana, I have been since late June. East Coast man, just a 3 hour difference. It's 9:33pm right now. Well, it was when I wrote this. Time to write more, though ...

I just realized, BBB is unequivocally correct: YUU IS A CLONE. But the clue isn't from Yuu's path; it's from either Tsugumi's or Sara's. (I forget who told me it, and all the facts are becoming a jumble in my head now. ^^;; ) Somebody mentioned that cloning was outlawed around 7 years ago or so. That would be well before any of our heroes were born, so it follows that any one of them could be a clone.

Now, in Yuu's case, we have particular reason to believe she is a clone. Why?

She and her mom look IDENTICAL. Pretty much a good enough reason right there. But wait, there's more![/*:m:e61d8]
We find out in the Kid x Yuu path that Yuu's dad died 34 years ago and her mother died 15 years ago. Yet Yuu's "mother" appears to still be alive, so what's the deal? Easy. Yuu's mother and father were egg & sperm donors for Leiblich Pharmaceuticals. They may have also been employed there as fulltime researchers, yes, but the fact remains, they donated their sperm and eggs to science and from those an army of "Yuus" was born. Thus ...

- Is Yuu's dad the deceased guy? Yes.
- Is Yuu's mother the deceased woman? Yes.
- But is the woman who raised Yuu possibly her surrogate mother *and* a fellow clone? Yes.[/*:m:e61d8]
While it may be possible that Yuu's "mother" is not just a clone identical to Yuu but also a clone identical to the real Tanaka Yurie (cutting out the dad from the equation entirely), it still doesn't diminish the fact that Yuu and the woman who raised her are genetically identical.[/*:m:e61d8]
"I ... am ... you ..." / "I ... am ... Yuu ..." haha, very punny. We saw this coming from the beginning, but there it is, proof in the pudding, case closed. Yuu's mom uses the line and it acquires its double-entendre meaning in full glory.[/*:m:e61d8]

[Doppleganger]

Huh? :? I'm back in Indiana, I have been since late June. East Coast man, just a 3 hour difference. It's 9:33pm right now. Well, it was when I wrote this. Time to write more, though ...

I misread your signature to say, "effective after August 12, 2007". So, that was my bad. :o


I just realized, BBB is unequivocally correct: YUU IS A CLONE. But the clue isn't from Yuu's path; it's from either Tsugumi's or Sara's. (I forget who told me it, and all the facts are becoming a jumble in my head now. ^^;; ) Somebody mentioned that cloning was outlawed around 7 years ago or so. That would be well before any of our heroes were born, so it follows that any one of them could be a clone.

Now, in Yuu's case, we have particular reason to believe she is a clone. Why?

She and her mom look IDENTICAL. Pretty much a good enough reason right there. But wait, there's more![/*:m:db26a]
We find out in the Kid x Yuu path that Yuu's dad died 34 years ago and her mother died 15 years ago. Yet Yuu's "mother" appears to still be alive, so what's the deal? Easy. Yuu's mother and father were egg & sperm donors for Leiblich Pharmaceuticals. They may have also been employed there as fulltime researchers, yes, but the fact remains, they donated their sperm and eggs to science and from those an army of "Yuus" was born. Thus ...

- Is Yuu's dad the deceased guy? Yes.
- Is Yuu's mother the deceased woman? Yes.
- But is the woman who raised Yuu possibly her surrogate mother *and* a fellow clone? Yes.[/*:m:db26a]
While it may be possible that Yuu's "mother" is not just a clone identical to Yuu but also a clone identical to the real Tanaka Yu[k]ie (cutting out the dad from the equation entirely), it still doesn't diminish the fact that Yuu and the woman who raised her are genetically identical.[/*:m:db26a]
"I ... am ... you ..." / "I ... am ... Yuu ..." haha, very [f]unny. We saw this coming from the beginning, but there it is, proof in the pudding, case closed. Yuu's mom uses the line and it acquires its double-entendre meaning in full glory.[/*:m:db26a]

I shall not comment...but let me say I arrived at the same conclusion after finishing Tsugumi-Sora's Bad End and You's Good End.

[big bad birtha]

Ok, I am at day six of I don't know who's path. Sora just tried to kill me because of something that happened between Tsugumi and I, but she stopped herself. I haven't really made any revelations, so whatever.

[Talon87]

Holy shit. 8O You don't say ...

[Doppleganger]

That is why I hate Tsugumi, in spite of the development in her path.

DO NOT READ ANY OF THIS TALON, SORA'S PATH SPOILERS.

BBB, this is what happened.

In the Qualle, Tsugumi tried to kill Takeshi, then after he was unconscious, she raped him. Sora, whose path you are most likely on, was horrified. By this time, her A.I. had evolved so rapidly she had developed a concept of love. ;_;

[big bad birtha]

I just finished Sora's good ending, and tears are still running down my cheek. I understand why you love Sora and her story so much. It is wonderful. Sora's also great. There's no mystery or secrets unveiled, but it surpasses almost any romance I have ever seen.

Alrightey. I will head off to Coco's path. Honestly, I don't get why you hated Coco. She isn't an obnoxiously annoying loli character. She is mature enough to keep calm when the time is right, but is still charming and almost always brings a smile to my face.

[Doppleganger]

I just finished Sora's good ending, and tears are still running down my cheek. I understand why you love Sora and her story so much. It is wonderful. Sora's also great. There's no mystery or secrets unveiled, but it surpasses almost any romance I have ever seen.

*sniff*

I've yet to see Chobits but I'm expecting something in the same vein. ;_;


Alrightey. I will head off to Coco's path. Honestly, I don't get why you hated Coco. She isn't an obnoxiously annoying loli character. She is mature enough to keep calm when the time is right.

It's not that easy. The road to Coco's Path only opens up when all four Good Endings have been unlocked - Sora, Sara, Tsugumi, You. big bad birtha has gone down You (Bad), You (Good), and Sora (Good) - you need Sara (Good) and Tsugumi (Good) before you can go on Coco's Path.

After Sora's Path I recommend going down Sara's Path because it shouldn't be as profound. I mean, it's touching, but you won't finish it feeling like the weight of the world is on your shoulders.

Then finish it off with Tsugumi, which as Talon hinted will be tough to swallow as well.

[Talon87]

On Kid's path, Coco is just a creepy loli. On Takeshi's path, I'd say she's almost like "fake loli," because she is too old calendrically and behaves too old half the time to be loli.

Yeah, just to clarify, my status out of the 11 possible endings is:
Tsugumi Good[/*:m:b8f87]
Yuu Good[/*:m:b8f87]
Yuu Epilogue[/*:m:b8f87]
Sara Good[/*:m:b8f87]
Sara Epilogue[/*:m:b8f87]
Sara Bad[/*:m:b8f87]
I still have not seen ...
Tsugumi Bad[/*:m:b8f87]
Sora Good[/*:m:b8f87]
Sora Bad[/*:m:b8f87]
Tsugumi/Sora shared Epilogue[/*:m:b8f87]
Yuu Bad[/*:m:b8f87]
That stated, I do have three of four Good Ends unlocked, so I really only need to complete Sora's and I'll be good to go. Still ... haven't played the game at all since my post where I mentioned I'm burnt out.

[Doppleganger]

Tsugumi and Sora have the same Bad Ending - all the Bad Ends are "optional" in that they're not required to go onto Coco's Path, but there's a very small detail in the Tsugumi-Sora Bad End that cannot possibly be seen in the other paths that is just vaguely hinted on. As in, most people would be caught up in the emotion and not pay attention, and even if such people did pay attention it would be impossible to detect. I could only find it with bias from having run through Coco's Path.

A word of warning - Coco's Path + true epilogue IIRC a little more than twice as long as any of the other paths including their epilogues. Once one gets on Coco's Path, there's very little opportunities for making choices - the tough part is getting onto the path, which can be tricky (I failed the first time).


Alrightey. I will head off to Coco's path. Honestly, I don't get why you hated Coco. She isn't an obnoxiously annoying loli character. She is mature enough to keep calm when the time is right, but is still charming and almost always brings a smile to my face.


I hated Coco because she was the source of the Tief Blau that forced everyone to descend from Himmel into the IBF. In Kid's Path, she struck me as almost begging Kid to go down there, where we know the virus is. THAT'S why I was so outraged by her, especially at the end of Kid's Route when she appears at the door and "disappears" into it - she was beckoning at Kid to follow her down into death.

[big bad birtha]

Alright. I haven't had much time to play, but I am going to aim at Sara. Right now, every time You asks me something, I ignore her request. I don't like treating You coldly, but I guess I have to ;_;.

[Talon87]

I felt the exact same way. I wanted there to be a way for me to be nice to Yuu while sexing up Sara, the same way it happens in reverse -- where you're nice to Sara and are never mean to her (outside of simply turning down opportunities to be with her if it means NOTb being with Yuu), but you still wind up with Yuu in the end and are still good friends with Sara.

I also think this is why playing the Sora arc will be difficult for me. Having played Tsugumi's arc and really fallen for the [i[tsundere-hime[/i] that she is, and really understanding (and respecting) why she is so cold towards people and instinctively mistrustful of them, and also understanding her (very logical) reason for insisting that people do not touch her, it's going to be really hard to see her in such a demonic light in the Sora arc. :|

[Doppleganger]

I felt the exact same way. I wanted there to be a way for me to be nice to Yuu while sexing up Sara, the same way it happens in reverse -- where you're nice to Sara and are never mean to her (outside of simply turning down opportunities to be with her if it means NOT being with Yuu), but you still wind up with Yuu in the end and are still good friends with Sara.

<.<
>.>

Not for you BBB.

Siblings are more forgiving than girlfriends. D:


I also think this is why playing the Sora arc will be difficult for me. Having played Tsugumi's arc and really fallen for the tsundere-hime that she is, and really understanding (and respecting) why she is so cold towards people and instinctively mistrustful of them, and also understanding her (very logical) reason for insisting that people do not touch her, it's going to be really hard to see her in such a demonic light in the Sora arc. :|

Tsugumi's barbaracism comes out of nowhere - her reasons for being aggressive aren't known unless one plays her arc, just like something you saw in Tsugumi's Path won't make sense until you play Sora's Path. Of course, in the Takeshi situation, he doesn't really have to be outright mean to Tsugumi or Sora, just ignore them - in fact, I'd say Takeshi can be meaner to Sora during her path than in Tsugumi's Path, where he isn't really antagonistic at all.

In retrospect of Tsugumi wasn't so nasty in Sora's Path it would have ended in a tragic premature fashion, but regardless I'll never forgive her. Ever.

[big bad birtha]

It has been awhile since there has been any kind of discussion on this (well, that's because no-one has been playing this). Anyway, I have been rollin' through Sara's path and I'm on day four. (NOTE: I don't think anyone other me and Doppleganger are even going to read this, so I'm not going to bother with spoiler tags.)

There's one thing that really made my blood boil with fury (like Akagi, it's a good fury). It was when Kid had a raging fit. Like when Tsugumi was standing over Sara, he recalled some past memory and went insane. It was kind of like when Talon remembered the kids beating her up and went ballistic. Anyway, the little flashbacks he had in that small room almost made me cry. It was so awful.

Anyway, I have a little on guess on what Kid is and how his memory loss works out. I somewhat believe that Kid's path and Takeshi's path are actually different dimensions, and the things that Kid has been recalling have been Takeshi's story. Kid might of traveled between dimensions. You know, kind of like another show I know of I think Kid might be like Rika from Higurashi. Except for the fact that his memories work like the other people in Higurashi, and the things that happen in the other dimension happen are buried deep in their memories. Rika keeps hers.

[big bad birtha]

I have just finished Sara's path. I have to say that it is very very touching. I will go to Tsugumi's path now and hope for the best. w00t!!!

[Doppleganger]

Congratulations on finishing Sara's Path. I would surmise you can see why I think it's "romantic" in a sense, especially that last scene before the epilogue.

I think Kid might be like Rika from Higurashi. Except for the fact that his memories work like the other people in Higurashi, and the things that happen in the other dimension happen are buried deep in their memories. Rika keeps hers.

My original line of thinking was like that as well - I thought Kid was Takeshi from a different dimension, namely, Takeshi's Route, which is why he remembered a lot of stuff. But as you saw, the source of Kid's "clairvoyance" and "prophecy" were his own abilities he had forgotten and not really some kind of time travel deal, he was mistaken. Though, the sense of "deja vu" is very real for the Kid and you will find out why.

Also, once you finish Tsugumi's Path, or if you fail to dock onto it, do play through the Tsugumi-Sora Bad End. It's quite a piece, that.

[big bad birtha]

Ok, I have hit into the fourth day of what I believe is Tsugumi's path. I honestly had a hard time coming to this path because it requires being cold to Sora, and after going through her story, I just have an incredibly difficult time doing that. Anyway, I will go ahead and try to hit Tsugumi's good end and then hit Coco's path.

[big bad birtha]

As I said in my suggestion box, finishing Tsugumi's path is not far away. Well, I just finished it (I finished it last night, and went straight to bed). Now, unlike how Suigin said, I didn't hate the ending to it, but after going through the other paths, this one just seemed kind of empty. Every other ending is sooooooo much better than this one. The whole path was pretty good despite the lacking ending.

Now, I will be off on Coco's path. I am expecting something amazing with this. If I had to go through four other stories to hit this one, then this is most likely the cream of the crop.

[Doppleganger]

Congratulations, you are in for the biggest ride of the whole game. As suggested earlier, I advise you play though Kid's Route to get in Coco, since playing as Takeshi is rather lame. New decisions will open up on the first and second days, and ultimately you should dock by the conclusion of the second and begin her path on the third day, after which there are very few choices.

Now, keep this in mind. DO NOT STOP PLAYING COCO'S PATH ONCE YOU GET ON! Normally I'd say the awesome would keep people in, but I think that the momentum builds on itself like a train and I'm not sure if the effect is as profound as if you totally finish through things.

When you finish Coco's Path I guarantee you will feel like the ruler of the free world.

[big bad birtha]

Alrightey. I have hit day three, and I can guarantee that I am on Coco's path (the save told me that it's Coco's path =P). Now, I am completely wierded out by the whole [SPOILER]switch to Takeshi's day three, but have a more detailed outlook on it. When I saw Kid in the mirror, I might be mistaken, but he looked like the image in Sara's pendulum. I am still not completely sure what is up with it, but I will keep my wits about.

Also, I think you said that it would be tricky to get into Coco's path, but all I had to do is apply knowledge of the past stories, and I hit it. I swear, this felt alot like Higurashi when I knew almost everything. I remember when I was talking to Sora. She was freaked the **** out when I told her about the underwater lab.

NOTE: I put up the spoiler tags back up because Suigin is still lurking about. I don't want to spoil him when he has two paths to go.

[Doppleganger]

Yeah, getting the option to "spill the beans" as Kid was really fudgin' awesome, I had a ball walking around and acting like I had all the answers (which I did). Sora's reaction was priceless, as was Sara's. Great stuff there.

Just to say, where I fumbled was after I saw Coco while doing repairs to the power generator, I chose to "tell everyone" then when I talked to Sora, I didn't test her admission of closing ones eyes causing her to disappear.

What did you think of Sora's explanation of the whole LeMU facility being RSD? :3

[big bad birtha]

Yeah, getting the option to "spill the beans" as Kid was really fudgin' awesome, I had a ball walking around and acting like I had all the answers (which I did). Sora's reaction was priceless, as was Sara's. Great stuff there.

Just to say, where I fumbled was after I saw Coco while doing repairs to the power generator, I chose to "tell everyone" then when I talked to Sora, I didn't test her admission of closing ones eyes causing her to disappear.

What did you think of Sora's explanation of the whole LeMU facility being RSD? :3

I'm going to respond to your comment, and after this, I have an important announcement to make =D. I'll put it in a separate post because this little comment is not worthy of being in the same post. (Oh no!!! Double posting!!!)

I did the same thing. However, I save after every decision, and I wasn't satisfied with my choice so I went back and changed them after I made the choice for Sora.

As for Sora's explanation....I really didn't care too much for it. I mean if LeMU was, then being feeling anything there would be impossible.

Now off to my next message =3

[Doppleganger]

Oho, how far have you gotten?

[big bad birtha]

I have something great to say, and after a month of playing.......

I have finished Ever17!!!

Yup, I just finished Coco's path, and I have a bunch to say about this. I'll give an anime style review of everyones' paths and give some extra thoughts about the path I just finished and the revelations that have been shown to me. I will start with the paths in the same order that I have beaten them.

You- This was probably had the weakest character development of all the paths (I still like the character development of this though! Don't assume I don't like something just because I say it's not as good as something else!!). The ending also leaves too much blank and I end up just assuming that You is just a clone. (Which is right. They call Youbisieakikana, Youbiseiharukana's daughter and sister, but that's pretty much a clone.) However, this is a really nice path and a great start for me because it hits on all of the paths. It also throws a bunch of useless information in my face, which is always nice. Also, I really like Youbiseiharukana better than Youbiseiakikana. However, both of them are excellent characters, and Ever17 would me missing a lot without You. Anyway, I give You's path an excellent

Sora- I loved this beyond words. Great development, awesome end, and plenty of laughs. I feel that this is the most touching path in this. Sora is also a really great character. I just have to smile every time she puts her hand over her mouth and smiles or when she blushes. The human emotions burning into a program thing has always touched me, from Planetarian to Chobits. Planetarian made me cry more, but this touched me waaaaaay more than either of the two could ever dare to. I loved the ending to it. It was tragic but awesome. It was alot like one of Key's endings. Like how they have a sad moment and they just continuously build on it to make it sadder and sadder until your shirt is drenched in snot (No! I don't wipe my snot on my shirt.). I give Sora's path a masterpiece. I mean, this didn't really make any revelations, but it got the emotions flowing.

Sara- This one was just extremely sweet. It also revealed alot about Kid (well, at least part of him). Sara's development was also really well done. As for Sara herself, she didn't really stand out too much in my eyes, but I still like her. There's really not much to say. I give Sara's path an excellent.

Tsugumi- This path was really well done as well. Most of where her path shines is the character development. As I said earlier, I didn't like the ending as well as the others (I still ****Ing liked it, god damnit!). That was mostly because it turned into a seemly fake happy moment, and all of a sudden turns tragic. It just didn't seem to have that much effect on me. Most of the better character development for her runs through Coco's path. The revelations about her didn't surprise me though (will talk about it later in the post). I somewhat suspected that, but I discarded the thought after thinking about it a little more. I also believe that this path would of been more powerful if Coco told the story about the 800 year old nun in her path. Despite that though, I give Tsugumi's path an excellent.

Coco- The shirt Doppleganger showed early in this thread was no exaggeration. I literally shat bricks after going through her path. I was just dumbfounded at some of the things that have been said. I will go into detail about them later in the post. This path was definitely the cream of the crop. It wasn't as emotionally fueled as Sora's, but it was close. Almost all of this was either really sweet, really sad, or just completely surprising. There's not much else to say that doesn't belong in a spoiler tag, so I'll go ahead and give Coco's path the all deserved masterpiece rating. I also really like Coco. I can't help but smile at her. I mean, there's times where she acts too childish, but that's alright. Takeshi rationalizes that quite well for me =D.

Now for the revelations about all of the characters. Some of them completely took me aback, while some didn't really do that much. Here goes for everything I have uncovered about this.

I'll start with the LeMU accident and the overall plot. I have discovered that the LeMU accident on Takeshi's path was indeed an accident. I think it was caused by some of the researchers escaping. The things on Takeshi's side didn't surprise me that much. Now Kid's path completely ripped me a new asshole. I realized that the accident happens to be a plot by Ryogo (Kid on Takeshi's route) and Yubiseiharukana (You on Takeshi's route) to trick Blick Winkel (the point of view that you are always on. You aren't Takeshi or Kid, you are always watching as Blick Winkel.) into appearing. It also takes place 17 years after Takeshi's route.

I didn't discover anything new about You, so I won't bother with her. The same applies for Sara (well, I did, but I will hit it on Tsugumi's) I didn't discover anything new about Sora as well, but I did kind of find it amusing at how they went into her perspective. What she thought when some of the things Takeshi said and did were great. "That smile should be illegal!"

Now for Tsugumi....I realized that Tsugumi was actually the mother of Hokuto (Kid on kid's route) and Sara. This didn't surprise me much since I originally had something like that in the process of consideration. I dropped the thought later though. The fact that Tsugumi went through the same accident twice surprised the hell out of me though. However, it also made alot of sense to me as well. I mean, it explained perfectly why Tsugumi was so much more bitter during Kid's path than Takeshi's.

Now we finally have Coco. Well, I wish they hit on her past. I don't know if I missed something, but I just don't seem satisfied with what little I know about her. I realized that her during Kid's route is a ghost after dieing during Takeshi's route. That's about all I know. She can also see Blick Winkel, whom no-one else can see.

Here is Takeshi and Kid. Well, these two guys are what surprised me the most. The Takeshi on Kid's route is also Kid from Takeshi's route. Also named Ryogo. Then Kid from Kid's route is Takeshi's child, and his name is Hokuto. I also realized that everything you see is actually from Blick Winkel's point of view instead of Takeshi or Hokuto.

That's basically it. I most likely realized more, but forgot to mention them. Anyway, here's my overall thoughts. This was a beyond great visual novel, and playing through it was definitely a pleasure. I will play through this a little more because there are things I have yet to unlock.

[Doppleganger]

BW stuff:


Ahh, it's good to see you didn't have much confusion over Blick Winkel, I was worried for a bit you might go "huh"? during that scene. Suffice to say, that was the biggest bloody twist in the whole story - the player himself is a character! Effectively that makes the Ever17 world *REAL* and the characters inside it real people. Thus, with the little act of a normal person in our world (in your case yourself, big bad birtha) given existence through believe (hence the Gurren-Lagann parallels - you wouldn't have recognized your own existence if the characters didn't believe in you) you did something miraculous, worthy of the title hero.

I think you can understand why I think the True Ending of Ever17 sends one's ego into orbit - the player is literally an angel that descended from heaven to save the lives of those poor, tragic mortals in another world. I had such a sense of fufillment, man it was overwhelming.


You weren't confused by "dwarves" were you? The original legend was the old Japanese folktale of Urashima Taro, which is commonly swapped for the legend of Rip van Winkel across the pond. Frankly, the origins of Urashima Taro and the Yaobikuni are rooted in legend, so that made You's assumption a lot more plausible than "mermaid tears and dwarven ale" hahahaha.


I can't help but smile at her.


I see what you did there. :P

I realized that the accident happens to be a plot by Ryogo (Kid on Takeshi's route) and Yubiseiharukana (You on Takeshi's route) to trick Blick Winkel (the point of view that you are always on. You aren't Takeshi or Kid, you are always watching as Blick Winkel.) into appearing. It also takes place 17 years after Takeshi's route.

There were a few hints as to the dates in You's Path, but otherwise how linear the scenarios were was quite surprising. And yes, Ryogo = Takeshi was indeed quite a surprise - if you remember, Talon made some comments about the simmilarities between Tsugumi and Sora. I didn't notice that, but I noticed Takeshi and Kid looked a lot like one another. Still, I was quite surprised - I was expecting some kind of Archer deal.

Also, I should note that while it is true, you are Blick Winkel, you're not exactly playing as him. Blick Winkel "possesses" characters and his conscience overlaps with their own. Effectively it's "role playing", which you, big bad birtha, acknowledged to be doing at the very beginning of the story. Blick doesn't know he has existence in the Ever17 world and no one knows either, he's just an invisible visitor.

The trouble starts when Blick appears in 2037 and attempts to have another "visit", but instead gets locked into Hokuto's conscious without a memory. Hokuto is effectively pushed into the back-seat, and Blick's personality takes the reigns. This is why I always said play as yourself, because, effectively, that's what's happening.


Also -


Coco can possess you, big bad birtha. You probably had no idea this was happening, but as you played You's Path and Sara's Path, Coco was watching over your shoulder. Yes, she was watching you play Ever17 on your computer!! That's how she knows what progressed in those paths even though she shouldn't since those continuums are outside of "Coco's Path".



I didn't discover anything new about You, so I won't bother with her.


You should have. It's the same reason I suggested playing the Tsugumi-Sora Bad End. You has heart disease.


Now for Tsugumi....I realized that Tsugumi was actually the mother of Hokuto (Kid on kid's route) and Sara. This didn't surprise me much since I originally had something like that in the process of consideration. I dropped the thought later though.

That one was spoiled for me, sadly. But, what of Takeshi being the father, eh?


The fact that Tsugumi went through the same accident twice surprised the hell out of me though. However, it also made alot of sense to me as well. I mean, it explained perfectly why Tsugumi was so much more bitter during Kid's path than Takeshi's.


Exactly! Everything from her frustration, to her "prophetic knowledge" to her interactions with Takeshi, You, and Sora were all easily explained.


Now we finally have Coco. Well, I wish they hit on her past. I don't know if I missed something, but I just don't seem satisfied with what little I know about her. I realized that her during Kid's route is a ghost after dieing during Takeshi's route. That's about all I know. She can also see Blick Winkel, whom no-one else can see.


Some clarification:

There's not much to Coco's past, she's an ordinary girl with extraordinary powers. Her father was a scientist for Leiblich and she caught Tief Blau when she visited him, thus incubating the virus in the hapless prisoners of the first accident.

Also, we're not sure if Coco is a ghost in Kid's Route. Kid's Route occurs in 2037, so the end events of 2017 are the same no matter what. If you remember, Tsugumi raped Takeshi in Sora's Path, which is what allowed the kids to be born if that was the path Blick Winkel took in 2017. If he picked Tsugumi, the kids were concieved in a more concentual manner. Most people assume Blick Winkel created a self-fufilling time loop (the grandfather paradox, I believe) by saving Takeshi + Coco in 2017, with the 2037 route just ending up "fouled" which resulted in the branch routes that became "Sara's Path" and "You's Path". HOWEVER, on the "correct" path the planes started to overlap for some reason, causing Blick Winkel to switch perspectives periodically. I'm not sure what happened there.


Here is Takeshi and Kid. Well, these two guys are what surprised me the most. The Takeshi on Kid's route is also Kid from Takeshi's route. Also named Ryogo. Then Kid from Kid's route is Takeshi's child, and his name is Hokuto. I also realized that everything you see is actually from Blick Winkel's point of view instead of Takeshi or Hokuto.

REMEMBER THE STATUES? I SAID THEY WERE IMPORTANT SOMEHOW EH.

...

In any matter, it was quite a joy to watch you play this, BBB. Truely, introducing this legendary novel to other people is quite good fun, especially from my perspective (if you know what I mean).

Any questions? There's a lot out to debate right now.

[big bad birtha]

Oh, right. I forgot about You's heart condition. Well, I realized it, but I forgot to put it down.


I see what you did there :P

Eh? Eh? Ehhhhhhhh!? I don't understand what you mean >.< I'm pretty sure you are referring to my comment about Coco, but not absolutely certain (I can't help but smile at both Coco and Sora).


In any matter, it was quite a joy to watch you play this, BBB. Truely, introducing this legendary novel to other people is quite good fun, especially from my perspective (if you know what I mean).

Any questions? There's a lot out to debate right now.

You watched me play?! o.O *hides under table* I bet you can't see me now =P. (j/k)

Anyway, I don't really have any questions about the story. Everything is crystal clear to me. Or I think everything is. I might of forgotten something, but I can't think of anything that remained blank.

However, I do have a question about the missing CGs in the special gallery. There's one from You's section, and a few from Etc 2. How did I miss them? I will go after the bad ends I missed and all of that, but I'm pretty sure the one that You was missing from wasn't from a bad end.

Oh, and speaking of the CGs. I will go ahead and show off my favorite ones ^o^. Well, not in this post. It will take awhile to upload them.

EDIT: Never mind. The site is being a good little girl, so it took about two minutes to upload them. Here are some of my favorites. [WARNING: The final CG and Tsugumi's two CGs have spoilers.]

People didn't see any kind of romantic development in this!?!? (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVSO03A3m_bdb3166.jpg&srv=img32). I really liked this one. It's the first really clear romantic development in Sora's path. Or I think it is. According to Doppleganger, some people are too stupid to see it >.<

Ha ha ha!! (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVSO08B3m_b6c690a.jpg&srv=img37) I have to laugh at this one every time. Sora is just so cute. The things she said during this were also really funny.

This one is just as funny as the last one. (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVSO02C3m_d12132b.jpg&srv=img37) This gets a similar effect to the last one. Well, the picture does at least. This happens right before my first one, so I'm more touched than amused when this CG takes place. I guess I just like Sora's smile =O.

My eyes are burning at this point. (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVSO10C3m_1750945.jpg&srv=img02) The second to last CG from Sora's path. The moment is mostly what gets me in this one.

So sweet! (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVTU18A3m_79665c1.jpg&srv=img35) This is the heartwarming reunion of two people and Tsugumi.

Awwwww X3 (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVTU17A3m_a6ea4bd.jpg&srv=img34) Yup, this is another one from Tsugumi. This shows a completely different side to her. (remember my spoiler warning)

Piyo Piyo! (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVCO05A3m_4356ac2.jpg&srv=img01) Coco is just so cute. The game she is playing is also very amusing.

So unbelievably sweet!!! (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVCO20A3m_f461f4e.jpg&srv=img33) Even though this was a happy moment, this was just so sweet that I had to shed some tears as well.

The final CG. (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVCO15E3m_30b2969.jpg&srv=img01) This is just the last one of the game. I felt a great sense of accomplishment when seeing this one though.

[Doppleganger]

Eh? Eh? Ehhhhhhhh!? I don't understand what you mean >.< I'm pretty sure you are referring to my comment about Coco, but not absolutely certain (I can't help but smile at both Coco and Sora).


IIRC, ]that line was taken directly from Blick Winkel during his reunion with Coco.


You watched me play?! o.O *hides under table* I bet you can't see me now =P. (j/k)



Sort of. From the game's point of view I, as the original Blick Winkel, created the 2037 scenario for you to play. And since you were telling me about your progress, I had some "perspective" as well. In the same light, you'll have created Talon's world and we both are open to the same options.



However, I do have a question about the missing CGs in the special gallery. There's one from You's section, and a few from Etc 2. How did I miss them? I will go after the bad ends I missed and all of that, but I'm pretty sure the one that You was missing from wasn't from a bad end.


From the Bad End. There are also other CGs from different options that even I haven't unlocked - no real desire to go through the painful "punch Kid" moment.

Oh, and speaking of the CGs. I will go ahead and show off my favorite ones ^o^. Well, not in this post. It will take awhile to upload them.


The final CG. (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/3/superfreddyjacksonman/f_EVCO15E3m_30b2969.jpg&srv=img01) This is just the last one of the game. I felt a great sense of accomplishment when seeing this one though.

Ahh, the ending. 'tis truely a romantic one. I'm understating how great it is by calling it "suboptimal, but nevertheless a good one".

[big bad birtha]

IIRC, ]that line was taken directly from Blick Winkel during his reunion with Coco.

Umm, I didn't mean to though. If I love a character, then I almost always smile when I see the character. That goes for Coco and Sora from this.

Example: Every time I look at one of my posts or my wallpaper, I just have to give a bright smile.

Coco is just so sweet and cheerful that I just have to love her. However, I always though that her cheerfulness was an act, but I still liked it. She also shows that red eyes aren't always scary (along with someone else).

Now for Sora. Her regular outright personality doesn't stand out much, but when she is opening up a little bit, it is like her charm multiplies.

Oh, I am going around and showing off the CGs of Ever17 in attempt to get other people to play it. I really want to spread the joy. I have gotten one person to download it. So far, everyone else is occupied with other crap (mahjong to be specific -_-' I have been lecturing them like crazy about their lack of involvement in anime.). Also, I will buy this when I set up my order for the next Air & Haruhi DVD and the Ayu figurine.

I found something else about You that I forgot to say. It is about her dad. Well, I know who he is and all of that. I don't feel like putting up a spoiler tag.

I will find something else to discuss because I really don't want to just let this topic go down with such little discussion. I truly loved this. I mean, still nowhere near as much as Kanon, but still a great deal.

[Doppleganger]

As you said yourself, there's not much to talk about since Coco's Path tied in everything. The only "loose ends" as it were would have been specifics regarding Blick Winkel - a Russian fellow wrote a strong dissertation on how the "melting" scene was impossible, given this -

Ever17 combines two supposedly incompatible theories of extra-planar travel, namely, "parallel worlds" and the "grandfather paradox". The first is, "any decision creates an outcome, and there are an infinite number of possible decisions to be made" thus creating infinite branching worlds (Sora's "Y") while the second assumes a single reality, whereby someone create a paradox by influencing an event in the past from the future. This works a bit since you exist outside of the Ever17 time continuum and therefore aren't really bound by the rules of their world, but it causes a problem when they incarnate you into the game. Because, quite clearly, that would have meant big bad birtha at t=5 (when you played Coco's Path) would have created the world big bad birtha at t=0 (when you played You's Path) existed in. So, there's a paradox since who created the world t=5 played in? One could say another version of big bad birtha...and this extends all the way to the very original scenario we didn't get to see, since the scenario we play is merely a factor of "probability", the fifth dimension in the game context.

Given this, the scene where you say to yourself, "this world can't exist" should not have happened! If an outcome is determined by a decision, that should not have happened! But clearly it did, so here's some food for thought...why?


...

Also, a gift (http://www.sendspace.com/file/wp9jxx)! Consider it your reward for finishing the game - it's a latter year remix of "Ever17 - LeMU ~Far Away Continent of Lemura~".

[big bad birtha]

Ever17 combines two supposedly incompatible theories of extra-planar travel, namely, "parallel worlds" and the "grandfather paradox". The first is, "any decision creates an outcome, and there are an infinite number of possible decisions to be made" thus creating infinite branching worlds (Sora's "Y") while the second assumes a single reality, whereby someone create a paradox by influencing an event in the past from the future. This works a bit since you exist outside of the Ever17 time continuum and therefore aren't really bound by the rules of their world, but it causes a problem when they incarnate you into the game. Because, quite clearly, that would have meant big bad birtha at t=5 (when you played Coco's Path) would have created the world big bad birtha at t=0 (when you played You's Path) existed in. So, there's a paradox since who created the world t=5 played in? One could say another version of big bad birtha...and this extends all the way to the very original scenario we didn't get to see, since the scenario we play is merely a factor of "probability", the fifth dimension in the game context.

Given this, the scene where you say to yourself, "this world can't exist" should not have happened! If an outcome is determined by a decision, that should not have happened! But clearly it did, so here's some food for thought...why?


I never really gave it any deep thought. I know the whole time travel thing leaves a lot of things that are impossible, so I just let it go as is. I honestly can't come up with a good reason for why it happened.

Wait. I thought a little more, and there is something that I still haven't figured out.

During kick the can. Who the hell kicked the can and who else was counting during Kid's turn in Takeshi's path? I have some thoughts of what might be possible, but I want some confirmation.

Also, thanks for the song. I will enjoy it thoroughly. ^o^

[Talon87]

Only logging in real quick just to post this ...

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72510

I would advise watching this thread like a hawk, since the guy doing the uploading appears to be using direct-download services (like Rapidshare) and so the link will die in a mere matter of weeks. As did the last one. (wtf, died in under one month!?! -_-; )

Thought you might appreciate it. ;) In other news (since I am logged in), I got a 34/44 on one part of the histology exam :( but a 130/155 on the other part, giving me a current grade in the class of ~83%. So ... again, definite room for improvement, more incentive to not fool around with forums until the holidays.

[PiccoloNamek]

I managed to get a copy. I can upload it somewhere if someone needs me to.

[Talon87]

SuperBump! SuperBump! [/to the tune of "Superfreak"]

Just thought I'd say that some time tonight or tomorrow I'm going to give Ever17 a whirl again. As mentioned, I enjoyed the paths I'd completed (Yuu, Tsugumi, and Sara) but was a little burned out plus med school was beginning right then, so I decided to leave Sora's and Coco's paths for Christmas break. Well, that break is now -- actually, it's already 33% over. :cry: But I'll wipe those tears of regret away, smile, and acknowledge that I've still got two weeks of wonderful vacation left -- time in which I can complete Ever17 and then some!

Also important is that I've completed several animes that were in outstanding status (e.g. Witchblade, Naruto Shippuuden), so I feel more caught up with my anime now and feel I can devote more attention to this game.

So, iirc, it's best to play Sora as Takeshi, right? So I'll be trying it as Takeshi and expecting you to reply soon in the negatory if I was wrong to choose him. I'm also banking on it being fairly to get her good end? ^_^; I hope so, anyway. Not enthused about the prospect of having to replay her story if I get the bad end the first time around. Then again, I did get Tsugumi's good end on the first try with zero assistance ;D , so we'll see. In fact ... I dunno if I even have unlocked a bad end for Tsugumi yet. o_o I think when I left the game last, I'd done all of Yuu's and Sara's endings but then just Good Tsugumi. Hmm ... I'll look into that.

[Doppleganger]

Yes, Takeshi is the way to go. Sora's programmed age is twenty four, so it would be a little strange for her to fall for the five something year younger kid, who, while mature for his age, isn't as worldly as Takeshi.

You shouldn't have trouble getting Sora's Path, it's probably the easiest to get to. Sora-Tsugumi Bad End is possible if you be nice to Sora AND Tsugumi (how I would have acted in real life), which leads to a horrible end.

You and Sara's Bad Ends aren't that great. I think you got Sara's Bad End before, which was triggered by one fatal decision at the end of the story. You's Bad End in this sense is tougher to get, but it's the least satisfying of the Bad Ends, whereas the Sora-Tsugumi one is the most satisfying (in a loss kind of way).

Once you've completed Sora's Path, it's onto Coco and a treasure chest full of wonder.

[Talon87]

Well, I'm glad that I have to do Sora still, because I'll probably play through hers nearly as slow as I did through Yuu's! I haven't forgotten the major details (e.g. Yuu's her mom, Sara's Kid's sister, there are two LeMMIHs, etc.), but I have forgotten a lot of the minor ones (e.g. things that I recognized from Kid x Yuu when I first played Takeshi x Tsugumi and was all like, "HEY! I KNOW THIS! O_O").

I checked my completion list, it's 6/11 at the moment. If you're interested, I think it was:
- Tsugumi Good
- Yuu Good
- Yuu ??? (I forget the word)
- Sara Good
- Sara Bad
- Sara ??? (I forget the word)

I know it was 3 Sara, 2 Yuu, and 1 Tsugumi. I also know the only bad I had was Sara's; I'm guessing that my immature logic from summer was, "Let's compete and see who can get the fewest Bad Ends!", and I saw myself as leading when I was 2-0 (with Yuu and Tsugumi), but of course it was right when I left that I got Bad Sara and brought my score down to 2-1.

Also, my last savefile is from August 8th. Makes sense -- I had the in[strike:2w9ur9nu]auguration[/strike:2w9ur9nu] ceremony that Saturday (iirc August 9th was a Saturday) and I had classes that Monday (iirc August 11th was Monday). My numbers may be a bit off, but still, August 8th seems about right. And now ... it's December 21, almost 22. Wow. ^_^;

Here I go!

[Doppleganger]

Ending-wise,

You Good
You Bad
You Epilogue

Sara Good
Sara Bad
Sara Epilogue

Tsugumi Good
Sora Good
Tsugumi-Sora Bad
Tsugumi-Sora Epilogue (comes after one completes Coco's Path)

Coco True (True End)
Coco Epilogue (True Epilogue)

...

Also, don't expect any more of the mystery to be revealed from Sora's Path. I'll talk more about it later after you've finished.

[Talon87]

Am I one end away (Sora Good) from unlocking Coco? Or am I many ends away (Yuu Bad, Tsugumi-Sora bad, etc.) from unlocking Coco?

[Doppleganger]

You only need Sora Good to go for Coco's Path, but there's a slight plot-point in the Tsugumi-Sora Bad End that isn't touched on anywhere except Sora's Path. And, as astute as you have been in the past, I don't think it'll be a clue you'll pick up unless I point it out or provide leading questions - it's a kind of plot-point that only one with full knowledge of the story, playing a second or third time would be able to notice and go "so THAT'S what was going on here".

I still advocate playing it, though, because it is the best of the bad ends.

[Talon87]

I quit playing very early last night because I decided I needed to go back and look through all of my old screencaps and to read all of the old posts in this thread (minus potential spoilers, e.g. BBB's posts about Sora's path or the entirety of page 7). I've nearly completed that goal right now, but I just realized something, and I'm not sure if I ever discussed it originally (in the previous 6 pages), so here goes ...

I have a screencap from the Takeshi x Tsugumi storyline in which Tsugumi says, "I was born in 1993, 24 years ago." That means that in Takeshi's path, the year is 2017.

But on the Kid x Yuu storyline, I have another screencap which says "(So this was on July 2, 2019, 15 years ago)", making it the year 2034 in their timeline.

2034 - 2017 = 17 years (DUN DUN DUN! EVER17!)
2017 = ends in 17! (DUN DUN DUN!)
2034 = ends in 34, which is double 17 (DUN DUN DUN!)

The last three statements are restatements (more or less) of the same mathematical observation, but still, I'm surprised I didn't find this in my posts from the summer. It seems important when you consider things like:
- on Kid's path, they say Yuu's dad died 34 years ago
- still on Kid's path, You heard from her mother that her dad vanished 17 years ago

These seemingly contradictory claims might make sense when one considers the spacetime anomalies plaguing the LeMU kids.

Anyway, just finished the last of the screencaps. Time to play!

Gameplan
1. Going to try to be nice to Sora and neutral to Tsugumi (i.e. be nice to her when it's not Sora vs. Tsugumi but be mean to her when it is)
2. If that lands me on the bad path, so be it, I'll just replay
3. But if I can manage a successful Sora Good ending, then it'll be really easy to pull up my savefile from like Day 5 and to start screwing up with Sora and to get the bad end

4. Assuming successful accomplishment of a Sora Good end (and hopeful dual accomplishment of the Sora-Tsugumi shared Bad end), I'll try for Coco and keep you posted. I read that BBB didn't know he'd done it till Day 3, and I read Doppel saying it's tough to get on it, so ... we'll see. O_o

[Talon87]

SHIT, I think I got the Bad End. :cry: Not for certain yet, but I'm on Day 6 and ...

Takeshi and Tsugumi made out on the Jellyfish Gondola[/*:m:o6i3x77i]
Sora caught us[/*:m:o6i3x77i]
And in a grandiose HAL9000-esque moment, she tried to kill me![/*:m:o6i3x77i]
Then "Fake Sora" appeared and overwrote Sora when she admitted, "I love Kuranari-san ... but I also hate him. I want to kill him ... but I also want to hold him tight." Etc.[/*:m:o6i3x77i]
The damning observation that while BBB had "Takeshi x Sora" status by Day 4, my savefiles all still register as "Takeshi" with no girl's name afterwards.[/*:m:o6i3x77i]

Other interesting things to note, from a Tsugumi fan's POV ...
When going for Takeshi x Sora, Takeshi does not get to be the one to rescue Chami. Instead, Tsugumi punches Takeshi in the stomach, knocking him out, and she's the one who goes to save the little Djungarian.[/*:m:o6i3x77i]
There is no scene on the gondola where Tsugumi squeezes Chami to death.[/*:m:o6i3x77i]
In fact, when Takeshi squeezes Chami one time, Tsugumi actually freaks out and says "Don't squeeze him like that!" Oh, fanservice for the fans of the Tsugumi storyline. :)[/*:m:o6i3x77i]
Remember how Doppel and I argued this summer about when exactly Takeshi obtained the Cure virus from Tsugumi? Well, I think I found the problem -- one of us is remembering details wrong! (No idea who just yet.) Here's why I say that: for certain in the Tsugumi Sora bad end path, Takeshi struggles with Tsugumi when she mounts him, he cuffs her lip, and then she kisses him out of nowhere. He even mentions the taste of blood and saliva. So for sure, he gets Cure on Day 4 in that version of the events. But from what I recall playing the Takeshi x Tsugumi (good) pathway this summer, he never cuffed her lip, she never bled, and they never explicitly suggested that sex occurred during the Qualle ride. As a Tsugumi fan, I think I'd have remembered that sort of thing, but as an Ever17 professor, I give Doppel credit, too. :| So I dunno who's wrong. All I know is, I don't remember them being explicit about it in the Takeshi x Tsugumi arc (although you can imagine it happening), whereas they SPELL IT OUT in the Tsugumi and Sora bad end path because Sora is jealous about Takeshi betraying her with Tsugumi on the Qualle, i.e. they minimally kissed and probably did more than just kiss.[/*:m:o6i3x77i]

[Doppleganger]

On the subject of paths; we can't be certain on what path you're still on, but it still sounds like to me you're on the branch between the Tsugumi-Sora Bad End and the Sora Good End. And it wasn't a case of Takeshi and Tsugumi "making out" in the Gondola, Tsugumi raped Takeshi in there!; this is one of the reasons I liked Sora's Path so much more than Tsugumi's, Tsugumi's was mostly of Takeshi trying to earn her trust, Sora's was of Takeshi and Sora hitting it off (with chemistry between them) and this happens, and she's forced to watch it! :(

On the subject of Cure, I think Takeshi got it from Tsugumi in three ways in Sora and four in Tsugumi.

1. First exposure was from the bleeding Tsugumi in the storage room (both).
2. Second exposure was mouth to mouth (Sora), contact (Tsugumi).
3. Third exposure was contact (Sora + Tsugumi).
4. Fourth exposure was the transfusion (Tsugumi).

Suffice to say, this leads me to think that Takeshi had a lot more Cure in him in Tsugumi's Path (three incidents with serious contact) than Sora's Path, which sounds about right going by how they end.

[Talon87]

Just thought I'd report in and say I've officially got my first "Takeshi/Sora" save file, so I'll take that as a good sign.

Right where I've saved is where Yuu confesses to Takeshi that she discovered that Sora isn't actually stored on Insel Null; rather, her backup (i.e. "Fake Sora") is stored there, but that the Sora they know (i.e. "Sora") is what's circulating through the RAM (so to speak) in LeMU. In other words, if LeMU goes down, so does their Sora. Whether LeMU goes down or not, "Fake Sora" survives on Insel Null and could always be used to replace Sora should Leiblich personnel authorize and oversee the procedure.

The scientist just died, and (unlike in Tsugumi's path) we learned a bit more about who he is this time around. Turns out he's the one who created all of the software for LeMU. Which to me strongly suggests that he's actually Yuu's father. There are a few problems, but I think I'm right:
Problem 1) He said to Takeshi "Please ... take care of ... my daughter" which, given what I said above, seems to hint at him being Yuu's dad. However, Yuu herself never confirms this, and she also confirms Takeshi's (imo incorrect) conclusion that the daughter he must have spoken of was Sora.

Problem 2) One would think that he would have said something to Yuu about being her father if he was in fact her father. So I'll admit this hurts my theory.

But still, I'm 50% sure that when I play Coco's path, we'll learn more about it. Considering Yuubiseiakikana says in Kid's path that her dad went missing 17 years ago (which would be 2017), and considering Yuubiseiharukana just saw this guy die who fits the description of her own father, I'm beginning to think it's more than likely. I dunno.

Doppel, it's already past 4:30am on the final day, so I'm guessing I don't have much left. I'll go beat it and report back, okay? Just telling you in case you're eager to see which path I was ultimately on and if you're going to be in the neighborhood (i.e. online, checking UPN) in the next half hour to hour.

Here I go!

[Doppleganger]

The entry in the IBF's computer were signed "Y.T."; you have to consider this is Japan, with a different measurement system, date and name order. If the scientist was You's father, wouldn't that mean his initials would be T.Y. for Tanaka Yoichi? You're on the right track suspecting he isn't who we're lead to believe he is (he is Sora's "father" as it were though), but there's still some clues that have to be gathered up.

[Talon87]

The entry in the IBF's computer were signed "Y.T."; you have to consider this is Japan, with a different measurement system, date and name order. If the scientist was You's father, wouldn't that mean his initials would be T.Y. for Tanaka Yoichi? You're on the right track suspecting he isn't who we're lead to believe he is (he is Sora's "father" as it were though), but there's still some clues that have to be gathered up.
The thing is, I already asked you ages ago if it was Coco's dad (Yagami T.) and I recall you saying "No, but you're on the right track!" or something. That, and a conscious Coco had zero reaction to him. Never mind him (a grown adult) being able to suppress whether he's Yuu's or Coco's father -- I don't think either of the girls would be able to hold themselves back if they saw him and recognized him. Thing is: Yuu couldn't have recognized him! Because she doesn't remember what her dad looks like. Coco on the other hand could.

So if you're going to tell me that it's Mr. Yagami, then I'm just going to have to say, "wtf >_< " because (a) I already guessed that this summer iirc and was shot down and (b) Coco had no reaction!

Anyway, moving right along, Day 7 just started, and ...
- Takeshi's an idiot! USE THE FRIGGIN' DISC YOU GRABBED TO BURN A COPY OF SORA!
- Takeshi and Sora are both trapped in Himmel's reception room because (a) Dritte Stock is fully flooded (except for Himmel) and (b) the elevator shaft to IBL is broken

Savefile still says "Takeshi/Sora," but I'm beginning to wonder if either ...
a) I didn't land on the Bad End, or else
b) Takeshi has the worst luck in endings EVER! (he dies in both of 'em!)

Bar some miracle by which he and Sora can still both survive, of course.

EDIT: Also, I don't need you to tell me about how the Japanese do and do not record their names, dates, etc. in certain orders. :roll: When reading localized material, I never assume the name is in Japanese order or in Western order, but rather assume either is possible until I know I'm out of the woods, because different American bilinguals do it different ways. (I prefer to keep the Japanese name order, but KID has already shown that they do not, e.g. Yuu Tanaka is what they call her instead of Tanaka Yuu.)

[Doppleganger]

The thing is, I already asked you ages ago if it Coco's dad (Yagami T.) and I recall you saying "No, but you're on the right track!" or something. That, and not only he but also a conscious Coco had zero reaction to him. Never mind him (a grown adult) being able to suppress whether he's Yuu's or Coco's father -- I don't think either of the girls would be able to hold themselves back if they saw him and recognized him. Thing is: Yuu couldn't have recognized him! Because she doesn't remember what her dad looks like. Coco on the other hand could.

So if you're going to tell me that it's Mr. Yagami, then I'm just going to have to say, "wtf >_< " because (a) I already guessed that this summer iirc and was shot down and (b) Coco had no reaction!


If I said something definite like "no!" shame on me, taking stances like that risks giving something away or leading one astray. -_-

What I wanted you to think about was the extent of localisation in Ever17 by Hirameki, which I've held off saying until now hoping it wouldn't be an issue I would have to raise before you finished Coco's Path. I know Hirameki has used that incongruent dwarven ale story, but I'm not sure if they reshuffled stuff like the dates and names. For sure, we know they changed the order in the text boxes (Akanegasaki Sora -> Sora Akanegasaki) but in the other parts of the game it's less clear and there are mistakes, which is Hirameki's fault since the Japanese didn't have to deal with localisation inconsistencies. In other words, they make the game more confusing than it should be.

My advice, then, would be don't trust names and dates just yet.

...

Just noticed your edit. I'm quite relieved you're adopted that method. 8)

[Talon87]

Okay. And I feel like (in writing) I always come off as way more of a pompous ass than I am or am even meaning to pretend to be, so, please don't get upset with what I said about the Japanese thing. It's just, I just want you to realize that what you've picked up from watching anime or talking to people online, I've made an academic effort to study (and have exceeded at it with straight A's and A+'s) for three years. If something seems like it's basic Japanese language knowledge, then it's probably something I do know. Not to sound arrogant! Just to avoid problems, not just with me but with any people you find online who (like me) have minored, majored, or gotten doctorates in Japanese language and/or literature.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, that stated. I just beat it. And ...

1- Yeah. Sad ending. >_< Dammit, Takeshi. Why do you always have to die!?
2- Yeah. Good End path. I got the "The Third Eye -- Finding Coco" message at the end of the credits. I'll spare you the screencap o' proof.
3- So I'm now 7/11 for endings. I still need to do Tsugumi+Sora Bad, Yuu Bad, and (I'm guessing that the last two are) the two Coco endings.
4- You suggested doing Kid for an "electric" experience to BBB, so I'll go with that. When should I know that I've latched on to the Coco path? By Day 3? Sooner? Later? Is it imperative that I be a right nasty brute to Yuu and Sara to latch on to Coco, or can Kid latch on to Coco while still being civil to those girls? (Obviously if I ever have the option to choose to listen to Coco or do things with Coco, I'll do that.)
5- Playing Sora's path has really made me want to relive Tsugumi's. >_> Her story was so good. ;_;
6- Should I try and get the Tsugumi+Sora Bad End before completing any Coco attempts? Or after a Coco attempt?

[Doppleganger]

Okay. And I feel like (in writing) I always come off as way more of a pompous ass than I am or am even meaning to pretend to be, so, please don't get upset with what I said about the Japanese thing. It's just, I just want you to realize that what you've picked up from watching anime or talking to people online, I've made an academic effort to study (and have exceeded at it with straight A's and A+'s) for three years. If something seems like it's basic Japanese language knowledge, then it's probably something I do know. Not to sound arrogant! Just to avoid problems, not just with me but with any people you find online who (like me) have minored, majored, or gotten doctorates in Japanese language and/or literature.


I'm not upset, just relieved - from experience, people who have made certain assumptions end up annoyed/bitter with games like Ever17 simply because "there was no way for us to figure out the puzzle given these clues without making some assumptions". This was especially true with Higurashi, where people who worked years to figure out the mystery in-between novels had to throw their theories out the window when it was revealed there was a simple, supernatural plot element to the story.

Ever17 is firmly in the science-fiction/mystery category, so thankfully there's nothing like that, but I don't want a similar incident to occur here.


1- Yeah. Sad ending. >_< Dammit, Takeshi. Why do you always have to die!?


He never gets any breaks, the poor guy. ;_;


4- You suggested doing Kid for an "electric" experience to BBB, so I'll go with that. When should I know that I've latched on to the Coco path? By Day 3? Sooner? Later? Is it imperative that I be a right nasty brute to Yuu and Sara to latch on to Coco, or can Kid latch on to Coco while still being civil to those girls? (Obviously if I ever have the option to choose to listen to Coco or do things with Coco, I'll do that.)


Oh, you'll know. Trust me on this one, it'll be pretty clear. If you're not seeing new stuff by Day 3 or 4, you'll have missed docking onto it.


6- Should I try and get the Tsugumi+Sora Bad End before completing any Coco attempts? Or after a Coco attempt?

Erm, no, just re-live the Sora Path while making a number of concessions to Tsugumi. Try to give both equal amounts of attention.

[Talon87]

:O Hooooooly shit, I'm still on Day 1 and ALREADY cool and creepy-new shit is happening! :D

I thought I noticed 2-3 new conversation blocks inserted into various conversations here and there up to the point I'm about to mention, but I had shrugged it off as perhaps me not remembering the game from August as well as I thought I had. My suspicions that new text might be popping up in the game were bolstered a little when I kept noticing how I was being given choices that, while familiar, were both white -- which is odd, because usually 1+ choices will be blue considering that I've already played through both Kid and Takeshi's stories multiple times, and so I've made "every choice that can be made," quote unquote. Quote unquote indeed!

Those thoughts of "Hmm, I must be imagining things" were completely blown aside when Yuu and Kid rescued Sara from the elevator. Things started off normal enough -- I was given a choice: (1) ask "Mayo" if there had been another girl in the elevator with her because I could have sworn I'd heard 2 voices, or (2) don't. Choice #1 was blue, Choice #2 was white. For the third time in my playing Ever17, I went ahead and clicked on Choice #1. But this time, after "Mayo" finished her explanation, I was given a choice between two white options. "Hmm, I've seen this bizarre occurrence quite a bit tonight," I thought to myself, "But it must just be a game glitch or something." One choice was "That's really all it was ...", but another choice was "Really?" So I chose that second choice, and ...

At first, it pissed the girl named Mayo off. I was surprised -- I didn't remember ever seeing Sara get pissed like this on previous run-throughs of the game. And of course keep in mind, I've completed both Yuu and Sara's paths, so it's not like I haven't had ample chance to see it! But then came something totally unexpected ...

"Hey," mutters Sara, " ... you just called me 'Sara', didn't you. How did you know my name was 'Sara'? We've only told you my name is 'Mayo.'"

8O Oh ... my ... god ...

Cue Ever17's creepy "Creepy Music." Cue Ever17's creepy "Black screen with white text." Cue Kid saying, "I knew her name ... Matsunaga Sara. I was sure of it." Wooooooooooooooooooooooooow. :D :lol: 8O

And so the new stuff begins. :twisted:

Nothing else major has happened just yet -- I just met Takeshi, Sora, and Tsugumi -- but I'm sure there're more surprises in store soon enough. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. :)

[Doppleganger]

Truly, Kid's Route on Coco's Path was so exciting I'd call it brick-shatting.

[big bad birtha]

Dude, that's only the beginning. It only gets more exciting as it goes along. It also should surprise the hell out of you. It did me.

[Talon87]

Well, thought I'd let you chaps know that I'm still on Day 1 (8:30-something pm) and I've encountered the 2nd huge plot deviation from the original Kid path ...

Finally, when Sora gives everyone the lecture on "5 ... 6 ... 7 bio signs" and insists that 6 is probably the right number, we get to point out to the group what we (as 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and Nth-timers all know by now) -- that Sora doesn't get to count in that number, and so if she really is so adamant that 6 is correct, then that must mean that somebody else is present onboard the station.

So anyway, instead of Sora's identity being revealed when Takeshi throws her a chicken sandwich and soda, Sora's identity has instead been revealed an entire day in advance, in an entirely different setting (Control Room), by an entirely different person (Kid), under entirely different circumstances (in response to the bio scan readings). We're changing history! :O

Must ... press ... onward!

[Talon87]

Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! 8O :D Two new developments and it's 10:30pm STILL on Day 1!!! :D :lol:

Change #3: When Kid goes to talk to everybody at their respective locations (as he always does on Day 1 of Kid's path), his conversation with Sora takes an interesting turn. Kid asks Sora all about LeMU, Leiblich, etc. (just like he normally does), only this time, he's presented with the opportunity to tell Sora what he thinks is important about the thermal vents on the sea floor. Both selections (of course! :D) were white, meaning I'd never gotten to click them before: one being "hot springs" (pfft :roll: ) and the other being "microorganisms". Gee, I wonder. :roll: ;) :)

When I selected "microorganisms," Sora began to get concerned, and I'm really starting to get scared for Kid. I think Sora's going to try and kill him like she did Takeshi in the Takeshi x Sora path! O_O Kid had better watch it!

Change #4: When talking to Coco, I was given an option I'd never had before -- to select from amongst two choices, both which were (naturally :)) white. One was "Ask Coco why she said that" (about not being able to escape), and the other was "Take Coco with you". I saved, clicked on the top one, and sure enough, it was the "wrong choice" (in a sense) because it just led to the normal progression of events. Backing up, I clicked on "Take Coco with you," and it revealed that Kid knew Coco's name; that he tried to take her out of the room; that she wanted him to stay with her; and that Takeshi knows Coco. Dun dun dun! :D

TALON'S THEORY: Takeshi knowing about Coco and being really uneasy with Kid knowing it was the final straw that broke this camel's back. :D I think I may have figured out the puzzle, at least in part.

"You are stuck in the infinity loop." For reasons I don't entirely understand, this game is like the classic episode of Star Trek: the Next Generation where the Enterprise crew is stuck in a timeloop and has to relive the same day over and over and over! Only this time, instead of the same day, it's the same week; and instead of nobody being aware they're reliving the events save for (eventually) Data who recognizes a modification made to spacetime by the previous Data, but instead everybody seems to be aware of the fact that they're stuck in the infinity loop -- certainly Tsugumi and Takeshi, and it looks like Yuu knows as well -- ... oh man, so excited I just lost my train of thought. :P :)

Gotta go back! Gotta wrap up this day! And then onward!

[Doppleganger]

"He's onto us, Captain!"

"What do we do?!"

"Gentlemen..."

"BRACE FOR IMPACT!"

...

And now BBB and I sit in our armchairs, one leg over the other, with our hands clasped in our laps, smiling broadly as Talon pierces the heavens at one hundred kilometres per hour. :9

[Talon87]

I'm sure I'll make a few missteps along the way :oops: , but I feel I'm onto it. Just to update you guys, the first "Kid is psychic, but he's always been psychic" event has just transpired -- I'm outside the generator room on Day 2 when Kid has an epiphany and tells Yuu, "Don't touch the door!" So I mean, that's not a new story development (and therefore it won't be #5 in my list of major changes), but it is still another example (if an old one) of Kid knowing things from either (a) his previous existences in LeMU (if my theory is right) and/or (b) from Tsugumi over in the other LeMU (if this is more of a Tales of Symphonia-esque story where there are two LeMUs, two Kids, two Tsugumis, etc., a theory I am increasingly doubting but still not quite sure if I can rule out).

Hopefully I'll get to play for another hour or so before having to go to bed, but I'll quit when I begin to feel drowsy, and I fear that's coming up sooner than I'd like. :cry: *sigh* There's always tomorrow, huh?

[Doppleganger]

Hmm, you're at the generator again? So...nothing unusual has happened, yet? Something different SHOULD have happened around that scene.

[Talon87]

It happened seconds after I made the post, don't worry. After I selected the brand-new third option of "How about all four of us go to the pipe room together?", I went back to the generator room's door to fetch the toolbox and saw Coco singing Sara's lullaby. When I returned to the group, I saved, selected "Tell them," reset and selected "Don't tell them," saw that that was a really shitty option, reset again and re-selected "Tell them," and figured, "If they kill me because I've spilled too many beans, oh well, at least this way the story is more interesting than if I keep it to myself."

Right now I'm in the middle of Kick the Can. Nothing weird has happened yet, but I'm guessing it will soon.

Change #5: As described above, you have the option of neither staying with Sara nor accompanying Yuu, but in having everyone go to the pipe room. (Explanation continues above.)

Change #6: Sora allows Kid to choose to cover his eyes (good, many details) or not (bad, few details) to prove that she vanishes.

I'm sure Change 7 is just around the corner ...

[Doppleganger]

No, I think you're done. From Sora's comment onward, you've docked successfully onto Coco's Path! Clever move on rebounding back on not opting to tell the group about your discovery; I did that, and didn't cover my eyes for Sora, and thus failed to get onto Coco's Path the first time around. Sora's option is especially important, which is a bit strange since it was the most subtle and, seemingly, un-significant.

And what about her "joke", eh? :)

She just casually threw it out there and and I went, "OH SNAP!", since it fit as a "plausible explanation" for the whole LeMU events. Maybe a subtle hint by KID for another visual novel plot, perhaps? 8)

[Talon87]

Hmm, nothing eventful happened during Kick the Can (strange :? , I'd have bet $20 that that would have been one of the token things to have a Coco insertion), but it looks like right after Kick the Can something new happened ...

First, though, Kick the Can. I was only given two options (as per usual Kid storyline): hide with Yuu or hide with Sara and Sora. I chose the latter, since I have an affinity for the Kid x Sara storyline over the Kid x Yuu one. Sure enough, as always, the game ended with Kid tripping over Sara in a mad dash to the can and nearly kissing her.

Change #7: Unexpectedly, this occurred after Kick the Can, not during it. The change is, in all other storylines, people sleep in the Conference Room. Always have done. Well, in the Coco path, it looks like things take a turn for the MORE REASONABLE. ^_^; We now have Takeshi sleeping on the bed in the decompression chamber, Yuu and Sara sleeping on the beds in the infirmary, Kid sleeping on the examination table in the infirmary, and Tsugumi (because, to quote Kid, she has "gone AWOL") doesn't get assigned a proper bed.


In response to Sora's joke, I was like, "Oh fuck, please don't tell me that's actually the answer. @_@" But I quickly dismissed it because we all know that you can move your hands through RSD and cover your eyes to prevent RSD simulations from being seen; yet when Kid covered his eyes, the floor didn't vanish; and of course the floor is physically tactile, so it can't be RSD-generated.

[Talon87]

HOLY SHIT, BLONDE SHOUNEN! O_O

*shat one brick*

[Doppleganger]

Hmm, nothing eventful happened during Kick the Can (strange :? , I'd have bet $20 that that would have been one of the token things to have a Coco insertion), but it looks like right after Kick the Can something new happened ...


That reminds me, I'll have to explain the kick the can incident later (BBB asked a while back).

*shat one brick*

Tonight's weather forecast; rain. No, make that hail. Err, I'll get back to you on that. ;)

[Talon87]

I'm soooooo glad I had to play a Takeshi path story before being able to attempt Coco's, because (as the two of you full well know :P) I'm currently playing as Takeshi again on Day 3 of his incident, and it's neat to be able to recognize:
a) things I just saw as Kid less than a real-world hour ago (e.g. Sora having the Moon talk or making the RSD-LeMU "joke")
b) things I saw as Takeshi less than a real-world day ago (e.g. going to the warehouse where Tsugumi's leg normally gets impaled by a rod of steel; or Coco waking up and calling me Onii-chan and saying we're going to be late for school; etc.)

Also, update on theory: this is probably obvious now that the cat's out of the bag what with "blonde shounen" and all that, but I have to guess that Takeshi from the Takeshi path, if not the same person, then at least has the same body as Kid from the Kid path. In other words ...

- Takeshi on Takeshi's path has yellow hair and yellow eyes
- Kid on Kid's path has the same body (if not being the exact same person)
- Takeshi on Kid's path has brown hair and brown eyes and is tall and thin
- Kid on Takeshi's path has brown hair and brown eyes and is really short

It seems like we've always (FALSELY) assumed, based on the intentionally misleading visuals, that what Takeshi looks like from Kid's POV on the Kid path must surely be what we look like when we play as Takeshi on the Takeshi POV stories. And the same thing for Kid. But now it seems that we assumed wrong -- the blonde boy (let us call him that for now) seems to occupy the role of Takeshi in the "green letter-box" world but the role of Kid in the "blue letter-box" world. This makes a lot of sense if one considers ...

- Takeshi in Takeshi's storyline learned that the generator room was hot because Tsugumi warned him. So this is why Kid in Kid's storyline psychically knew it.
- Takeshi in Takeshi's storyline knows about what lies beyond the Himmel doors. This is why Kid in Kid's storyline has those visions of the IBF oxygen pods and of the IBF hallways.

I'll stop there since I could be barking up the totally wrong tree. Play more, speculate less! ;) :oops:

[Doppleganger]

Didn't I say (it feels like ages ago, almost another time and era), "this game will try to trick you"? :P

It just gets more crazy from there.

[big bad birtha]

You still haven't stumbled on the biggest twist of the whole story. It will punch your balls off!

[Talon87]

I see that you're about to reply, so just writing in to say:

- it's 1:23am, so I need to go to bed soon
- it's 1:23am and my PC makes a lot of noise, so I need to shut it off soon >_>
- it's 1:23am, and before I can go to bed or turn off my PC, I need to save these 51 PrintScreen screencaps I took and pasted in MSPaint as png files
- and so for all these reasons, please don't keep checking this thread on my account after this post, as I'll be headed off soon

(If you make a juicy reply, I may reply to that in between saving png files.)

Just to let you know where I stopped ...

Change #8: Perhaps not a "change" so much as a "revelation," but we now know that Kid's storyline Kid is not brown haired and brown eyed but instead is blond haired and has golden yellow eyes.

Change #9: all of the various Coco's Path-isms that we re-experienced in Takeshi's Day 3 (e.g. Sora's "joke")

Change #10: when repairing the pipes this time, Tsugumi mistakenly said the order was "red then blue", but Takeshi still correctly did blue then red.

Change #11: the pipes didn't explode! instead, an electrical malfunction occurred ...

Change #12: and so Takeshi became directly responsible for Tsugumi's near-death in this version of the events because he's the one who pulled the box off the ledge in his fumbling for balance, and because of that Coco was almost impaled, and because of that Tsugumi was impaled

Change #13: Coco cries on Takeshi's chest outside of the infirmary as Tsugumi is being operated on. (Perhaps not a change, but something we never got to see in the original Takeshi plot lines.)

Change #14: when Kid discusses these things with Sara after returning to the Kid timeline, Sara uneasily informs Kid that yes, indeed, the one room did flood with water, only this time, nobody was sent down there to try and stop it, and nobody was hurt. (As is typical for the Kid storylines anyway.)

Change #15: Sara brazenly hints to Kid that they are siblings when she says, "If I had to say whether or not I like your face, I'd say I like it. I suppose it's because ... it looks like mine." And she then goes on to mention how they have the same eyes. Kid doesn't seem to quite get it (yet), but it definitely triggers something in him.

Change #16: Kid invents the "chicken wich-sand" and Sara eats a head of lettuce topped with ketchup. This is where I decided to call it quits for the night. But man, SO MANY CHANGES! @_@ I think I may have to quit listing them all.

EDIT: Wow, the both of you managed to reply before I got this megapost in. :) Oh well, enjoy. I'll check back in after I convert all those bmps to pngs.

[Doppleganger]

I fully advocate sleeping at this point, since Coco's Path *is* the longest of the paths and you haven't even gotten to Day 4, 5, or 6, which are the longer parts of it. As of yet, you haven't hit a "geyser" as it were but the ground is starting to get muddy.

[Talon87]

Haven't hit a geyser!? :? :) I'd say the Kid looking in the mirror bit was quite the geyser. If you say "No," then ... oh man. 8O :) :cry:

[Doppleganger]

Seeing Kid was more of a land-mine in comparison to a few of the other twists; there will be more land-mines and geysers to come.

[Mcsweeney]

Edit: me retarded, wrong topic. But hey, that Ever17, oh man!

[Talon87]

Considering how much the Kid version of Coco's path (awesomely) takes us onto Takeshi's path, I'm really increasingly disappointed with the reality that what you say is probably true -- about Kid's path being awesome but Takeshi's sucking. I mean, after all, they can't very well have Takeshi's path tell the exact same story, otherwise there'd be no point to having two characters from whom to choose, right? And so considering that Kid's Coco path is taking the best elements from both paths and mixing them together, that leaves next to nothing for the Takeshi Coco path.

Update: I just finished playing Piyopiyo ("Chicks") with Coco. I had been in Takeshi's form (of course), but I *just* reverted back to Kid when (as Takeshi) I approached Coco on her bed, and she was moaning "Papa ... Papa ..." in her sleep, and then all of a sudden, I'm back to blue letter-box Kid and there's Sara right in front of me saying, "Papa? Papa?"

Regarding Coco claiming she's a Solarian ... ¬¬ I can't rule out even the most obvious of jokes at this point, can I? *doesn't know what to believe anymore :P*

I think I've latched onto a Sara-dominant Coco path, because my path is (obviously) the Coco path, and says it's the Coco path, but I almost never see Yuu anymore and I see Sara a lot. I chose to go to the warehouse with Sara (instead of choosing to visit Yuu in the Security Office) on the day where Sara was munching on the ketchup-covered head of lettuce, so I think that was probably the final push that placed me on "Kid x Sara, Coco version" instead of "Kid x Yuu, Coco version." But I am asking here first just in case I'm mistaken. That is to say ... please tell me which is correct:
a) I am right, and there is such a thing as a "Sara-dominant Kid Coco path" and a "Yuu-dominant Kid Coco path", or
b) I am wrong, and no matter who you choose to do stuff with, Sara will always reveal to Kid the things that strongly hint at her being Kid's sister, e.g. even if one chooses to visit Yuu, Kid will still go to the warehouse with Sara and find the room where he claims he can see a window with moonlight; or he will go to the whale room (the "Cosmic Observatory") with Sara even if he's been flirting with Yuu constantly, etc.

I think I am right, given how much Sara and how little Yuu there is at this point in my game BUT how many earlier opportunities there were for me to pick a Yuu moment over a Sara moment and I kept choosing Sara moments. But correct me if wrong.

Why? Because ... depending on how fun this turns out to be, I may try to go back again and do another "Kid Coco" path, but this time do a "Yuu-dominant" one, to see what new things I can learn about Yuu.

[Talon87]

Update: I just finished Coco's story on mermaid tears and the 800 year old nun. Then Yuu started to discuss the similarities and differences between this tale and that of Rip Van Winkle. I (as Takeshi) was arguing that she was silly for believing in these fairy tales and I demanded proof of Rip Van Winkle's existence. Yuu said she had it, but then she had a heart attack and said, "This ... happens ... all the ... time ..." Of course, we've never seen Yuu have heart troubles before, so something's definitely afoot.

Then, I returned to being Kid, but this time the shoe was on the other foot -- I was the one insisting to Yuu (Aki version) that Rip Van Winkle was real, and she was the one telling me I was silly. Just now, I took a break to report in that Yuu told me her name (Yuubiseiakikana), and Kid freaked out saying, "You're WRONG. You're name is 'haru'kana, not 'aki'kana." And Yuu just started laughing at me. But the creepy music is playing, and I'm not sure what's about to happen, so ... back to the game! :)

[Talon87]

I just realized, I'm not cluing you guys in as to what theories I hold at the moment, so ... first updates, and then theories held.

Yuu Update: Yuubiseiharukana revealed to us that she has a twin sister whom she has sinned against (in some way) and for which she can never forgive herself. While it isn't explicitly stated, it's strongly hinted at that her twin sister is Yuubiseiakikana.

Kid Update: Yuubiseiakikana asks Sara what Kid's real name is, and she says that's it Hokuto. When Kid hears this, he thinks to himself, "Just as I thought ... I don't recognize the name at all. In fact ... I'd even say I know it isn't my name." OoOoOOoOoh. 8O And just when I thought we could trust Sara, too. Something's up ...

Tsugumi Update: Tsugumi revealed to us the kanji used to spell her name -- "moon" plus "ocean." I spent the longest time looking for one kanji character that used both radicals before I realized that her name might possibly be a fusion of Tsuki and Umi --> TsukiUmi --> TsukUmi --> TsuGumi --> Tsugumi. And sure enough, a google search for 月海 ��� reveals that this is in fact how one spells her name.

Other characters: minor updates

Talon's Theories:
well, Yuu sort of stole my thunder for this one. Not that I would have guessed it. But yeah, I'm onboard for her "The other Yuu is my twin sister."[/*:m:17ea7o9e]
I would like to add on, though, that I'm starting to think that the woman who raised Yuubiseiakikana (in the Kid path) may not only be a clone of Yuu (as we had already figured out by completing Yuu's path this summer), but may more specifically be Yuubiseiharukana. No proof yet, but that's what I'm starting to believe.[/*:m:17ea7o9e]
Regarding Tsugumi's name, that was more evidence lent to my formulating theory (from the moment I heard Coco's story) that Tsugumi may well be the maiden she spoke of in the mermaid tears story. Now, I'm not saying that Tsugumi's childhood (as we heard it explained in the Takeshi x Tsugumi pathway this summer) is a lie or is wrong. What I am saying, though, is that Tsugumi may in fact not be 22 years old. Maybe she is the 800 year old woman of legend. And maybe the reason she's 800 years old is because she's stuck (along with everyone else) in the infinity loop. And who knows, maybe she actually is the girl from the story -- "moon ocean" might be just the sort of name you'd give a girl if you were a fisherman.

Still, there is not yet enough evidence to suggest that Tsugumi is the maiden and not Coco or not some other character, so who knows. (Coco told us she's 14, but that could be a lie, who knows. Maybe she acts overly childish to mask her true age.) I dunno, this theory is probably my shakiest.[/*:m:17ea7o9e]
I'm still of the opinion that Takeshi-path Takeshi is the same person as Kid-path Kid.[/*:m:17ea7o9e]
Considering Kid's memories of his childhood with Sara genuinely did flood back, I'm of the (strong) opinion that he does belong to his body, since we know the body Kid is in is genetically 99.999999% likely to be Sara's brother. So the only reason I can come up with at this point for why he was so surprised was the same reason we in the audience were surprised -- he had gotten it into his head that maybe he looked like Takeshi-path Kid, when in fact this was wrong.[/*:m:17ea7o9e]
We're still waiting for Takeshi-path Takeshi to look in a mirror, but I'm guessing that when he does, he'll see a blonde haired golden eyed self and not the Takeshi avatar we're all used to thinking of.[/*:m:17ea7o9e]
Sora either is not stuck in the infinity loop (as she's an AI and not an organic person) or she is stuck in the infinity loop with the others and (for whatever reason) is keeping it to herself that Takeshi-path Takeshi is Kid-path Kid. Or that Sara doesn't exist in the Takeshi path while Coco doesn't exist in the Kid path.[/*:m:17ea7o9e]

I dunno. Tons of small little theories. I really still don't know enough to make any definitive claims. Like, I still don't even know why Yuu got so worked up over Rip Van Winkle, or why she claimed "I've run out of time." As a clone, is she going to die soon? Not possible (if my theory about her being Yuubiseiakikana's foster parent is true). Is she referring to running out of time before LeMU implodes? (Doubtful) And come to think of it, Yuubiseiharukana seems to be a lot more "I remember things from the infinity loop"-ish than does Yuubiseiakikana. Could this be why Yuubiseiharukana successfully cracks LeMMIH's password (in the Takeshi x Sora path) but Yuubiseiakikana fails (in the Kid x Yuu path)? Why should the two twins have different memories due to the infinity loop? So many questions. @_@

[Doppleganger]

Considering how much the Kid version of Coco's path (awesomely) takes us onto Takeshi's path, I'm really increasingly disappointed with the reality that what you say is probably true -- about Kid's path being awesome but Takeshi's sucking. I mean, after all, they can't very well have Takeshi's path tell the exact same story, otherwise there'd be no point to having two characters from whom to choose, right? And so considering that Kid's Coco path is taking the best elements from both paths and mixing them together, that leaves next to nothing for the Takeshi Coco path.


Sadly, this is correct. Takeshi's Route to Coco's Path consists of little more than Takeshi going, "huh, that's strange" to himself, once in a while asking the other characters if they notice something, which of course they don't. Then, without fanfare, there's a switch onto Coco's Path.

Kid's whole, "wait, I know this stuff! 8O " discovery was a whole truck-ton better.


Regarding Coco claiming she's a Solarian ... ¬¬ I can't rule out even the most obvious of jokes at this point, can I? *doesn't know what to believe anymore :P*


It was really cute, though.


b) I am wrong, and no matter who you choose to do stuff with, Sara will always reveal to Kid the things that strongly hint at her being Kid's sister, e.g. even if one chooses to visit Yuu, Kid will still go to the warehouse with Sara and find the room where he claims he can see a window with moonlight; or he will go to the whale room (the "Cosmic Observatory") with Sara even if he's been flirting with Yuu constantly, etc.


This is close to the truth; there aren't any choice options once you get onto Coco's Path, it is long because all the characters get attention. As for the relationship, it'll be revealed, though not in the same form as in Sara's Path and the hints in You's Path.


I dunno. Tons of small little theories. I really still don't know enough to make any definitive claims. Like, I still don't even know why Yuu got so worked up over Rip Van Winkle, or why she claimed "I've run out of time." As a clone, is she going to die soon? Not possible (if my theory about her being Yuubiseiakikana's foster parent is true). Is she referring to running out of time before LeMU implodes? (Doubtful) And come to think of it, Yuubiseiharukana seems to be a lot more "I remember things from the infinity loop"-ish than does Yuubiseiakikana. Could this be why Yuubiseiharukana successfully cracks LeMMIH's password (in the Takeshi x Sora path) but Yuubiseiakikana fails (in the Kid x Yuu path)? Why should the two twins have different memories due to the infinity loop? So many questions. @_@

This was brought up in the Tsugumi-Sora Bad End oh so subtlety, but you'll find out soon enough.

[Talon87]

Brick #2 shat, sirs. o_o

Perhaps not as big a brick to shit out as when Kid's true form was revealed, but I've just had the run-in with Coco at the Lemurian ruins. You know, the one where she's dually talking to Takeshi-Takeshi and to Kid-Kid. The conversation began between Kid-Kid and Yuubiseiakikana in the ruins, but Yuu got excited because she figured she's finally figured out the password problem and she left Kid behind ("It's not the password that's wrong -- it's the username!") So Kid gets ready to chase after her, but he hears somebody singing Sara's lullaby in the ruins. Somebody with a high infrared heat register, OMFG SHE'S PHYSICALLY THERE O_O.

And then we cut into Takeshi-Takeshi's brain and see Coco singing the "Moon and Ocean Lullaby" to him. So here's the mystery behind Tsugumi's name importance solved -- the lullaby is named (by Coco) after Tsugumi, and (possibly) was invented by Tsugumi in the Takeshi-path world, etc. (details still a little unclear) Coco then returns to talking to Kid-Kid, and of course he's all like ...
- how do you know the lullaby?
- how are you here!?
- you're PSYCHIC!?

That was when I shat the brick. I told Doppel, "I don't know whether I should take Coco's joke seriously or not. ¬¬" AND IT TURNED OUT TO NOT BE A JOKE!!!

*can't trust ANYTHING said light-heartedly in Ever17 anymore*

So Coco's got ESP. And she seems to recognize that Hokuto's name is Hokuto. And calls him "Hokutan." But she calls Takeshi in Takeshi's path "Takepyon," so that puts a small crinkle in my "Takeshi-Takeshi and Kid-Kid are the same." A further crinkle was put in when Coco delivered the news that "there's another you with a different face." (D'oh!) So hmm, that means that Kid's spirit/mind is transferring between two different bodies when he goes between the two different dimensions. Or something.

Coco further forced the brick to be shat when she brutally delivered the verdict that "Sara doesn't exist in my world." Noooo! ;_; *was hoping she did, somehow* Maybe she just hasn't been born yet, if the world from which Coco comes is the same as the 2nd world only it's 17 years in the past. Or something.

And the brick was just shat right out, completely purged, when Coco pulled a complete NeverEnding Story on us and said: [strike:3h554htc]"You were with him when he hid from the boys in the book store."[/strike:3h554htc] Oops, I mean, "How you and Mayo escaped from 102 feet deep down under the sea ... Escaped with Nakkyu using a siphon ..." I mean, I half expected Coco to go from there and say, "How you risked your life for Sora ... and how you died to protect not only her but also Tsugumi ... yes, the water was cold, wasn't it, Hokutan? ... dark, heavy, and cold ..." 8O She didn't mention the Takeshi pathway endings, of course, but man, if she had ... 8O Though she does go on to mention, "Tief Blau virus ... Cure virus ... IBF ... Pygmalion ... the terabyte disk ..." indeed, these were all things that came up in the Takeshi pathways (Tsugumi and/or Sora) but never in the Kid pathways. Ker-razy!

I think the thing that was most unexpected (not to say it was the brick-shattingest factor, but just the one I least predicted) was when Coco finished it up in tears with, "I've been ... waiting for you. I've been waiting here by myself ... all by myself. :cry:" A, because it strongly suggests that Coco is in fact the Mermaid Maiden from the story (not Tsugumi or anybody else). B, because it suggests she genuinely loves the spirit inside of Kid-Kid. As in, "we are soulmates" loves him.

[Doppleganger]

It's remarkably hard to stay hush-hush at this point, but I've got to comment on something!

...

Coco's so adorable, isn't she? Hard to believe I didn't like her at first. ^^;

[big bad birtha]

Dude, as Suigin is talking, I am reliving the time I played it. =O Might Doppleganger be feeling the same? (I guess so, because when I did it, I didn't really hypothesize or state my status that detailed. Actually, I kept my mind open until the facts were given to me.)

Also, yes it is hard to believe that you didn't like Coco at first. She was just so adorable that I couldn't help but smile when I saw her.

[Talon87]

I didn't like her because she was stupidly loli. And then (since I played Kid x Yuu first) she was the token "creepy loli" who I thought was going to kill me.

When I played as Takeshi my second time for Takeshi x Tsugumi, I still didn't like Coco too much, but she grew on me, and well before she coughed up blood, she was already higher on my list than Takeshi-route Kid. (He's my least favorite character in the entire game.)

But to be honest, I wouldn't say I have felt anything like "desire to see her survive, be protected, etc." until playing the Coco pathway. Before, I was like, "Oh, great, the loli's got a virus that's going to kill us all. :evil: " This time, it's more like, "Oh my God, I am ruing the day we see Coco develop the final symptoms of Tief Blau. 8O"

[Talon87]

BRICK #3 AND BY FAR THE BEST! :D

TSUGUMI'S THE MOM! OMG!

a) I love Tsugumi! :)
b) MILF, meow. ;3 ^_-
c) I can think of no better parent for Shounen and Sara than Tsugumi, hell yeah!
d) Aha, so this explains why they have Cure but only partially. Probably going to be a placental blood-maternal blood explanation, though I haven't hit it yet. And it explains why all three have IR vision.
e) This explains why Tsugumi can only be wooed on Takeshi's path! ^_^; Brother x Sister incest was as dangerous as KID wanted to play it; they didn't want to even touch Mother x Son. ^_^;

Now some additional comments relevant to this revelation.

As a medical student who has done his fair share (YEARS) of study on p53, telomeres, telomerase, and the various other genetic features the writers of Ever17 attempted to attribute to Tsugumi's Cure condition, I have to say that they made a good effort but it's full of holes that anybody familiar with cancer can identify. When they say, "You could say that every cell in a Cure is cancerous," this is their attempt to cover up their tracks -- but really, it's nonsense, because cancer cells are characterized by their undifferentiated existence (i.e. there's no such thing as "a cancer neuron," but there is such a thing as "a cancer cell that came from neural tissue"). If every cell in a person's body was cancerous, theoretically, then that person would become a blob of cells. LITERALLY. There would be no more muscles, neurons, or gut cells in such an individual. There would simply be a lot of spherical cells, some of which have proteins still stuck on the outside from their neuron days, some of which still have protein still stuck on the outside from their muscle days, etc. Think of it like the Borg in Star Trek -- whether it's a human-turned-Borg, a Klingon-turned-Borg, or a Romulan-turned-Borg, the three Borg are more Borg than they are their old species, and they have much more in common with each other than they do not. Cancer works the same way -- a "cancer cell derived from neural tissue" will have a lot more in common, functionally, with another cancer cell from a completely different tissue than it will with adjacent neurons.

Furthermore, neurons are cells that are supposed to not divide (i.e. we WANT them to stay around forever but to do so in the same cellular existence, i.e. DON'T DIVIDE, JUST FIX YOURSELF UP). So suggesting that "Cure is a pathway to immortality" is very uninformed of the Ever17 writers to be saying -- it sort of reminds me of things I used to say in high school, but I'd certainly learned better by early college, never mind where I stand today. Which means whoever was writing this script probably had had a taste of high school biology but never more than that, and never bothered to consult any real medical authorities. (Or if he did, he didn't understand what they had to tell them and he botched those details in his script.)

Oh well. :)[/*:m:ivr5ftaj]
Aha, so now we finally know why Tsugumi had to come in the Myunmyun costume! It wasn't because she was an undercover agent. It wasn't because she was a park employee. It wasn't anything like that at all. She came in a fullbody costume because she needed protection from the UV rays outside on Insel Null! As explained by the game, Cures have lost p53 functionality, i.e. their skin cells are highly prone to genetic mutation caused by UV radiation. So Tsugumi would (necessarily) need to cover her entire body when outdoors during the daytime. I see ...
[/*:m:ivr5ftaj]
Takeshi-Takeshi's boys sure can swim, eh, eh!? ;) :) Fraternal twins in one shot -- nice job, Kuranari! ;)[/*:m:ivr5ftaj]
So this is why Doppel was all worked up this summer saying, "Talon, I can confirm that Takeshi and Tsugumi have sex on the Qualle. But I can't yet say why." Because this is where Kid and Sara were conceived. Gotcha. Nine months later (in February 2018), Tsugumi gives birth to Kid and Sara; and then 16 years after that (in May 2034) they're all back on LeMU only this time Kid and Sara are 16 years old and Tsugumi (now 22 + 14 = 36 years old) is still looking not a day over 17.[/*:m:ivr5ftaj]
Doesn't this mean that Kid-path Tsugumi is technically the oldest main character? :) ;) (After all, Sora was 6 years old in Takeshi x Sora, and she was programmed to behave as if she were 24 years old in both paths.)[/*:m:ivr5ftaj]

[Doppleganger]

Talon's NOT EVEN AT THE BIGGEST TWIST YET AND HE'S GOING A BIT CRAZY. Just had to say this, but since "Schrödinger's Cat is out of the steel chamber" I can address most of Talon's points now.


As a medical student who has done his fair share (YEARS) of study on p53, telomeres, telomerase, and the various other genetic features the writers of Ever17 attempted to attribute to Tsugumi's Cure condition, I have to say that they made a good effort but it's full of holes that anybody familiar with cancer can identify. When they say, "You could say that every cell in a Cure is cancerous," this is their attempt to cover up their tracks -- but really, it's nonsense, because cancer cells are characterized by their undifferentiated existence (i.e. there's no such thing as "a cancer neuron," but there is such a thing as "a cancer cell that came from neural tissue"). If every cell in a person's body was cancerous, theoretically, then that person would become a blob of cells. LITERALLY. There would be no more muscles, neurons, or gut cells in such an individual. There would simply be a lot of spherical cells, some of which have proteins still stuck on the outside from their neuron days, some of which still have protein still stuck on the outside from their muscle days, etc. Think of it like the Borg in Star Trek -- whether it's a human-turned-Borg, a Klingon-turned-Borg, or a Romulan-turned-Borg, the three Borg are more Borg than they are their old species, and they have much more in common with each other than they do not. Cancer works the same way -- a "cancer cell derived from neural tissue" will have a lot more in common, functionally, with another cancer cell from a completely different tissue than it will with adjacent neurons.

Furthermore, neurons are cells that are supposed to not divide (i.e. we WANT them to stay around forever but to do so in the same cellular existence, i.e. DON'T DIVIDE, JUST FIX YOURSELF UP). So suggesting that "Cure is a pathway to immortality" is very uninformed of the Ever17 writers to be saying -- it sort of reminds me of things I used to say in high school, but I'd certainly learned better by early college, never mind where I stand today. Which means whoever was writing this script probably had had a taste of high school biology but never more than that, and never bothered to consult any real medical authorities. (Or if he did, he didn't understand what they had to tell them and he botched those details in his script.)

Oh well. :)[/*:m:178uhmwz]


Remember, as sharp as Tsugumi is, the scientist is trying to explain something to someone with no education; I'd imagine that, even if his explanation would strike him (and you) as "wrong", so long as Tsugumi gets the basic idea of how Cure works it's workable. It's like how in seventh grade I was taught; "Photosynthesis is the process of turning food, water, and sun into energy". That's a pretty darn imprecise, vague explanation, but it's "workable" and gives the basic idea of Photosynthesis so the student, a child, is able to conceptualize the picture.

When I read that explanation the first time, I frowned and thought, "this is sort of silly" but figured the scientist was erring for Tsugumi's sake, since he's a washed-up researcher and it's not like he's there to lecture her on a graduate class in biology.

The talk of "Cure as the path to immortality" was more of the virus itself, not of the process, since it DOES seem to grant something similar to immortality, at least invulnerability to most of the world's elements and natural hazards.


[list=2:178uhmwz]
Doesn't this mean that Kid-path Tsugumi is technically the oldest main character? :) ;) (After all, Sora was 6 years old in Takeshi x Sora, and she was programmed to behave as if she were 24 years old in both paths.)[/*:m:178uhmwz][/list:o:178uhmwz]

She's pushing forty, yes. Taking into account the oldest version of Sora I think she's second, but otherwise as a physical human she's the senior of everyone.

[Talon87]

Is the biggest twist Yuu's identity? Because I got to that hours ago but have been holding off on a reply until you guys responded juicily to the point I cared about most (about my TsunTsun-hime Tsugumi). :oops:

But as for Yuu, I've gotten very little gametime in because I've taken over 150 (yes, well over 150, close to 200) screencaps of her conversation with Takeshi-Takeshi about her true identity as Yuubiseiakikana's mother. (Isn't the photograph of little Aki-chan adorable? :)) Note to self if you're reading this in the future: don't fret over how little I'm discussing it here, I took over 150 screencaps for a reason! Two, actually:
a) I damn well loved that revelation, and
b) I wanted you to be able to read the source material directly instead of Cliff's Notes

So yeah, where I am right now, Yuubiseiharukana has just finished her explanation, and we've catapulted back into Kid-Kid's body and we're talking to Yuubiseiakikana. Since I see you're not going to discuss Tsugumi's revelation in great detail yet :cry: , I'll go ahead and leave and keep playing.

*mumbles something along the lines of "I for one thought Tsugumi's plot revelation as mother to Sara was more important, tear-jerking, and fucking awesome than Yuu's identity as her own mom, but whatever. That, and having *just* experienced Tsugumi's past, wasn't experiencing Yuu's a bit déjÃÂ* vu? I mean, come on! They're both the mother of a girl who exists in 2034 LeMU! It's almost the same, except one (Tsugumi :P :)) is infinitely cooler than the other!"*

[Doppleganger]

No, it isn't.

[Talon87]

GENTLEMEN, I BELIEVE I JUST SOLVED BRICK #4 ON THE VERGE OF IT BEING EXPLAINED.

Observe -- this is where I have shut the game down (see screencap attached below), so if I am wrong, then blame it on the fact that I got too excited and quit prematurely.

The Claim: Remember earlier I said that "we know Takeshi-Takeshi is the same as Kid-Kid*, but we still don't know exactly who Kid in Takeshi's path or who Takeshi in Kid's path are?" Well ... we do now. At least, I think we do. The same brown hair ... the same brown eyes ... I DECLARE THAT TAKESHI IS THE KID FROM 2017 ALL GROWN UP!

The Proof: Well, I'll admit that if I am right, then I'm probably like one, two, or three screens tops away from it. ^_^; Right now in my game, Tsugumi just finished explaining to Sara and Kid how they were born and how they enjoyed the first year and a half of their lives by her side before she left them in an orphanage out of fear of Lieblich finding them. Well, Kid then goes to find "Takeshi," because he:
a) remembers that a man on the phone called him and told him to come to LeMU if he wanted to see his sister and mother,
b) recalls that "Takeshi" can't be the real Takeshi, duh
c) recalls that "Takeshi" lied to him (in the Kid timeline) about the year being 2017 when it was really 2034
d) realizes (and here's the kicker) that Takeshi has been saying and doing everything now that he did 17 years ago

Well, how do we explain this? Particularly since Fake Takeshi wasn't at LeMU 17 years ago? There can be only one answer: he was. And so who's the only possible person he could be? THE KID.

I'll report back shortly! :D

* Yes, I know now in hindsight that this is incorrect -- Kid-Kid is actually Takeshi-Takeshi's son. That is to say, Takeshi in Takeshi's pathway makes love to Tsugumi and, nine months later, the Kid in Kid's pathway is born. But at the time, this was the way I phrased my claim, so I've reproduced it above.

[Doppleganger]

Well done, well done! I must applaud your efforts, you sir have hit the nail on the head!

I must admit, the issue of Kid's identity told me a lot about what different people see when they play the game. I picked up on the similarities between Kid and "Takeshi" pretty early on, noting that their design looked pretty similar to one another, so I was half-expecting some kind of Archer-like twist to come. When it happened, I was like, "oh yeah, I totally called that in the beginning".

When you first played and mentioned Sara resembling Tsugumi, I was like "say what? Those two act nothing alike!" but at the same time, you didn't notice what I thought was a big clue with Kid and Takeshi's designs, especially in the opening cut-scene when the two are paired next to one another, which immediately gave me the idea of "same person"!

[big bad birtha]

Eh?! I didn't even begin to realize the connection between Kid from Takeshi's route and Takeshi from Kid's route until they told me. The only hint I had was the fact that they wouldn't tell Kid's VA, when it was obviously the same as Takeshi's. As for their appearance, I thought they were really different, and I still can't imagine Kid growing up to look like that.

As for Sara. I first thought that she was Tsugumi's sister @_@ I kind of thought that the argument that her and Tsugumi had was some kind of sibling dispute.

Anyway......GO SUIGIN GO!!!

[Talon87]

Well, as you guys know, I had it confirmed (like 8 or 9 slides after my screencap), and right now, the Kid from the Kid timeline (so, "The Hero" as I will probably start referring to him) .... well, the Hero is in a disembodied state watching the final moments of the LeMU 6 on May 6, 2017. He's seen Coco vomit blood, we've gotten to see what the real Takeshi looks like (same shirt, same voice, but a different face and jet black hair color), we've learned evil Kid's real name (Kubaraki or something ... Ryogo K.), and Coco told "Hokutan" in the Cosmic Whale room that he's not really Hokutan, because he's not really anybody.

Which ... ¬¬

*Ever17 goes from being fucking epic to being slightly less epic*

I mean ... the story was getting so good, but now they have to go and say that the Hero is nothing more than "Perception itself"? Come on. :x Copout if I've never heard one! And you guys were doing so well, too, KID! :cry: Hopefully I misread that. Hopefully I'm completely wrong. Because, if in the end, the Hero doesn't really exist as Tsugumi's son, then I don't know what to say.

a) he has the memories of Tsugumi's son
b) he has the future memories of Tsugumi's son if he does a Kid x Yuu (siphon) or Kid x Sara (104 feet vertical swim) pathways

These two suggest he is Tsugumi's son. Except ...

c) he has the memories of Tsugumi's lover, Takeshi
d) he doesn't recognize the body of Tsugumi's son

These two are stinkers that sort of muck that up, and lend credence to KID's claim that, "Oh ho! The Hero was just Perception all along! :mrgreen: " Don't Mr. Green me, KID. :cry: Please don't tell me you shat all over your epic story. :cry:

Aside from my MAJOR disappointment with who I (think I) was just told the Hero really is -- nothing more than a collective consciousness, *sigh* -- I'm really enjoying this right now, and really excited to see, more than anybody ...

31 YEAR OLD COCO TRAPPED IN A 19 YEAR OLD BODY! (assuming she got Cured)

There is still one major mystery ... Coco said, with tears in her eyes, that she had been waiting for "Hokutan" to return. She mentioned she had been waiting, all alone, all this time. So ...
- does that mean that (in true Ever17 fashion) we yet again cannot take anything anyone says lightly, and Coco really is a ghost?
- i.e. does this mean that Coco died aboard LeMU and her ghost haunts the facilities? And that her ghost has been waiting for someone to return? And that "someone" is whatever disembodied Perception the Hero represents?

And then there are other mysteries, too, like ...
- What does Yuubiseiharukana, saved by the Cure and able to raise and care for her daughter even if she is in a never-aging 23 year old's body, hope to accomplish by trapping everybody in LeMU and simulating what happened in 2017?

- What does Ryogo (evil Kid) get out of his participation? Why is he assisting in doing something so evil to poor Tsugumi (the only one who has had to suffer this psychological torture twice!) and her two children? Not to mention Yuubiseiakikana, the very daughter that Yuubiseiharukana claims to love so much!

- Why does the Sora of 2034 behave like the Sora of 2017? Is it because she's been upgraded and can now lie well? Or is it because she was destroyed in the Takeshi x Tsugumi pathway (which seems to be what the Coco path is preferential towards), and so of course we can't expect "good ol' 2017 Sora" to be around to identify that the same shit is going down again, that Ryogo is posing as Takeshi, etc. etc.? (I think I've answered my own question, but am still posing it anyway in case the answer is actually something else.)

[Doppleganger]

Talon, I need to ask; have you discovered Blick Winkel's identity yet?

[Talon87]

I have not figured it out, and Coco has said, "I think Blick Winkel has the answers." (or something to that effect) No sooner did she say that, to the Hero in the Cosmic Whale room, then did the room's ceiling cave in and water began to flood in. The Hero escapes the room and bumps into Sara who addresses "Onii-chan :cry:" 's need for a bandage -- his hand is bleeding. When the Hero glances down at his bleeding hand, it sends him into another one of his timewarp moments, and he's suddenly in 2017's Day 6's control room with Coco vomiting blood on the floor and everyone freaking out.

So ... I think we're about to find out who Blick Winkel is, but no, we haven't even heard the name since Coco (in the Hero's timeline) mentioned it, and I for one can't figure out who he might be. I don't think he's the dying IBF dude (I mean, he could be, but I don't think he is). I dunno, my theory from the summer was that "Blink Winkel" wasn't the real name, and that it was Leiblich something-or-other, but that theory doesn't seem to hold much water phonetically or spelling-wise.

Anyway, even though I know you guys have it on your own machines, I just had to share what I thought was (so far, and possibly even when I beat the game) the most powerful image of the entire game:
Tsugumi and her children, reunited (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/EV_TU18A_3.png)

[Doppleganger]

Well now, that was a bit troublesome. I'll just let you finish playing, then.

[Talon87]

Where I saved for the night: Day 7 just began. And surprise surprise, we're on the surface. In this version of the events, Kid (and Yuu) actually make it out with the others. Crazy. No Coco beckoning Kid to HIMMEL like last time.

Still no Blick Winkel. I realized I was so tired, I wrote "Blink Winkel" in the last post, but it's Blick Winkel, isn't it. Which means my theory from the summer -- about it being ____blick winkel_____ , i.e. the first word is actually Leiblich (hence "blick") and the second word is actually Winkel-something, may not be wrong after all. Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if it's not Rip Van Winkle meets Leiblich Pharmaceuticals, i.e. .............. I've learned with this game, "Don't trust surface appearances." Well, we were told that LeMU was a theme park. Then we learned that LeMU was actually a front for IBF researching Tief Blau. But ... what if IBF and Leiblich Pharmaceuticals is actually a front, too? So we're dealing with a double front here? And the real aim of the men in charge isn't a theme park ... isn't biotech ... but is related to spacetime?

By the way, I don't know if it's important or not, but I just realized, Coco's surname (Yagami) means "Eight Gods" in Japanese, the way she writes it. The only symbology I can get out of the number 8 in Ever17 is the eight inscriptions she and Kaburaki made on the statues in 2017 -- five humans, one A.I., and two animals. Now, it does say gods (kami, hence Yagami), not angels or spirits or ghosts. But still ... hmm. *shrug*

Maybe I just need to give it a rest @_@ and quit speculating so much. ^_^;

Doppel, you jerk! :roll: It turns out I was right after all about "T.Y." being "TANAKA YOICHI." Isn't that what I said two days ago? Isn't that what you just told me "Nooooo" on? What the heck!? >_< Yuu even confirms it in Coco's path -- the T.Y. was Tanaka Yoichi.

Now, Y.T. on the other hand (surprise surprise) turns out to be Yagami ... Takeshi. Whoooooooooooooa boy. 8O That explains Coco's "Daddy" obsession with dear old Takepyon. He has the same first name as her father. Coincidence? With this game, NOTHING'S a coincidence. :) But I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what it is.

EDIT: I just remembered, though ... the letter they read written by "T.Y" did make reference to "Takeshi's daughter" or something. Sigh, stupid localization getting the letters all mixed up.

EDIT 2: By the way, I haven't had any puzzles involving mermaids or dwarves yet. Ought I to have?

[Doppleganger]

But ... what if IBF and Leiblich Pharmaceuticals is actually a front, too? So we're dealing with a double front here? And the real aim of the men in charge isn't a theme park ... isn't biotech ... but is related to spacetime?


It's not. The devious Blick Winkel has his own agenda.


By the way, I don't know if it's important or not, but I just realized, Coco's surname (Yagami) means "Eight Gods" in Japanese, the way she writes it. The only symbology I can get out of the number 8 in Ever17 is the eight inscriptions she and Kaburaki made on the statues in 2017 -- five humans, one A.I., and two animals. Now, it does say gods (kami, hence Yagami), not angels or spirits or ghosts. But still ... hmm. *shrug*


Like pointing out LeMMIH is Himmel backwards, that is something awesome I don't think many people figured out yet. Immediately, I can noticed some cool stuff associated with that number. Good catch!


Doppel, you jerk! :roll: It turns out I was right after all about "T.Y." being "TANAKA YOICHI." Isn't that what I said two days ago? Isn't that what you just told me "Nooooo" on? What the heck!? >_< Yuu even confirms it in Coco's path -- the T.Y. was Tanaka Yoichi.


My apologies, I didn't mean to lead you astray (orz) - I was trying to hint at the localisation issue without actually being blunt about it.


Now, Y.T. on the other hand (surprise surprise) turns out to be Yagami ... Takeshi. Whoooooooooooooa boy. 8O That explains Coco's "Daddy" obsession with dear old Takepyon. He has the same first name as her father. Coincidence? With this game, NOTHING'S a coincidence. :) But I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what it is.


Oh.

I forgot that.

¯\(º_o)/¯


EDIT 2: By the way, I haven't had any puzzles involving mermaids or dwarves yet. Ought I to have?

You should have already, and you've mentioned the incident. No puzzles involving them, though.

[Talon87]

The only mention of them was Coco's story about the 800 year old nun and then You bringing up "Dwarven wine" (or some such liquor) for the tale of Rip Van Winkle. How consuming mermaid tears makes you live longer while consuming Dwarven spirits makes you age quicker.

EDIT: I got as far last night as True Takeshi saving Sora to a disc, returning with Tsugumi and Chami to IBF, finding that the others were all gone, and then the Hero exiting the reverie and (as I mentioned last night) escaping with the others to the top of Insel Null. Still haven't touched Day 7. Only online because my dad's taking a shower before we can open Christmas presents, but I've been woken up. So ... ^_^;

[Mcsweeney]

While you guys will be doing dumb stuff like spending quality time with family this Christmas morning I'll be watching KAIJI 12 OH MY GOOOOOOOOD

[Doppleganger]

Kaiji 12? Merry Christmas, BPK! :lol:

...

I'm pretty sure that was a troll upload!

[Doppleganger]

Bad news bears, folks.


Hirameki International Group, Inc. has decided to bow out of publishing
Interactive Visual Novels as of January 2, 2008.

We would like to thank you for all the support you have given us over the
years. We wish you all the best.

Best Regards,
Hirameki International Group, Inc.


...

Source (http://anime.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=4609).

...

Meaning all visual novels that get professional treatment in the future are going to be ero in nature, since Peach Pit (the other folks) don't license anything but eroge. :|

I don't know all of the consequences of this move, except that Never7 and Remember11 (the other KID properties before the company bellied up) won't be coming to our shores, nor will Fate/stay night since Hirameki was the primary lobbyist for the non-H version of the game (PS2 version) for computer emulation, WHICH has benefits as well as negatives. Like, all the H-scenes are released by bonehead metaphorical moments.

As far as purchasing Ever17 goes, I'm still going to buy it for myself as a graduation present (which comes a year early -_-) and Hirameki should still be stocking its older products, I don't expect them to phase anything out right now.

[Talon87]

The problem with visual novels was that they had no market to begin with in America. They had a potential market -- they still do! -- but not a pre-existing one with American visual novels lining the store shelves. Every other aspect of the fandom differs in this regard:
- anime DVDs --> we have DVDs for TV series, too
- manga --> we have comics and other small paperback books, too
- anime OSTs --> we have many audio CDs found in a variety of different stores

Visual novels were something that hobbyists and pre-existing fans had to order from online. And when you're sat in front of a computer jumping through hoops to find a suitable e-retailer to sell you a PC novel, sometimes it's just easier (if unethical) to go torrent it instead. And so the market that already doesn't exist continues to not exist, i.e. there continues to be no place in the physical world to go and legally buy visual novels for the PC.

Think about where you buy most PC games. When I did buy mine, I used to buy them at Target or Wal-Mart. Can you imagine these sorts of stores carrying Ever17 in stock? Of course not. And that was the entire problem. :| Target carried anime for a while, but it never carried visual novels. (And considering it's canceled stocking anime, I doubt it'll pick up visual novels any time soon.)

I could probably sum this entire post up by just saying ... Visual novels are like Gundam. Hugely popular in Japan but relatively obscure in America, for reasons no one quite understands.

[Doppleganger]

The depressing part is Ever17 enjoyed a surge of popularity since SaiGar 2007 because of four factors, which bled through Yotsuba /a/ into other anime forums and stirred up interest for people who didn't know:

1. Takeshi and Blick Winkel's campaigns for the tournament.
2. "Why is she in a washing machine?"
3. "Naturally, I knows the hacker," (this one slipped under my radar until a couple days ago).
4. "I shat bricks during Coco's Path".

These four incidents/ideas massively increased awareness for Ever17 online, and spurred a buying frenzy as well - sure, a lot of pirates torrented the game, but the issue was that Hirameki was selling more of Ever17 than it was before SaiGar and also had prospective buyers on the horizon who just lacked the money, as I did at the time. Effectively, this was a successful case of "viral marketing" to increase demand for the game.

...

On the subject of PC games, the last time I went into a store and left with a game was in the 1990's with Duke Nukem 3D; since then, with the exception of Baldur's Gate (a gift), most of my games that weren't pirated like on emulators were either downloaded online or purchased online; the last game I played that I purchased, Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn/Throne of Bhaal came from online, as did my Warcraft Battle Chest and Diablo II Battle Chest before it.

I switched off from buying games in stores to online when I became more internet savvy, but wasn't savvy enough to pirate stuff. I'd expect that a number of anime fans who could potentially be visual novel fans lie on one spectrum - not savvy enough to purchase the game online - while the other, the 4channers and whatnot, are *too* savvy and just pirate the game.

The spam incident, which I mentioned earlier this year and was also mentioned in the article, brought the "tools of the savvy" to the "un-savvy" potential fans, with possibly grisly results we won't know the full details of. Suffice to say, that incident of the green-toed troll is possibly what took Hirameki down.

[Talon87]

WARNING: This entire post contains spoilers

So, I don't think I get why people say they shat bricks during Coco's path. ^^; Unless they're referring to the part where she talks to Kid in the amusement park. The end of the game wasn't exactly terrifying ...

... but it was good. Very, very good. :)

I'm always torn over happy endings. On the one hand, there's nothing inherently wrong with them. In fact, it'd probably be wrong of me to toss 'em out purely on the basis alone of their having been happy endings! But on the other hand, when a story decides to pursue tragedy, I'm always left with a sort of "ehhhhhhhh ^^; " dissatisfied feeling when they turn around and decide to pursue happiness after all. Commitment: that's all I ask from a writer. ^^; Either be committed to telling a good tragedy or a good happy story. Don't tell a tragedy and then say ... "SURPRISE! HAPPY ENDING!" Because I like tragic endings when they're done right, and so it feels like robbery when you take away from the well-crafted tragic ending you gave me and replace it with a well-crafted happy ending. I'm glad it's well-crafted, but ... but I want my well-crafted tragic ending back. ^^;

Wow. I guess I owe an apology to Imposter Takeshi. I was treating him like some sort of asshole and it turns out he ... yeah. Sorry, guy. ^^;

WTH, how did Hokuto survive that dive into the ocean!? :| The game claimed that hybrids didn't possess the regenerative abilities or the souped-up immune systems that purebreds did, so ... yeah. :| Plo~ot ho~ole! :|

That was pretty gosh durn adorable when Coco wakes up from hibernation. :) I can't stand Coco, actually -- my least favorite of the girls in this game! -- but that was undeniably adorable. Melts one's heart.

LOL @ "Papa" Takeshi. He's 20 years old and has no clue how to handle being the father of two 16-year olds. I can't blame him! XD

LOL @ Tsugumi's epilogue. I love Tsugumi. And the husband-wife spat that ensued was awesome.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I get it ... so we're Blick Winkel. :) What exactly does that name mean, anyway? "Blick Winkel"? I assume it's more German: but German for what?

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :oops: , that melted my heart, that did. The ending theme song when you beat Coco's path is adorable. So warm. So happy. So glad to be alive-sounding.

Uhh, wow. Takeshi melting was kinda ... grotesque? 8O Unnecessary? :? Uh ... yeah. Maybe that's what people mean when they say that they shat bricks? lol

Pretty hard to believe that Yuubiseiharukana could have orchestrated all of this. I mean, why the hell would Leiblich Pharmaceuticals, the government, and/or wealthy donors sponsor this 2034 project of hers? Seems awfully expensive to reconstruct a four-story aquatic theme park only to blow it all up.

Overall ...

Game, Overall: B+ or A- a very good game.
Ending: B good, well-written, but disappointed it retconned the tragedy. Also disappointed Coco didn't turn out to be a ghost, a being from the Fifth Dimension, etc.
Would Replay? Yeah, some day. I re-read it, didn't I? :)
Would Recommend? Yeah, pretty highly.

[Talon87]

http://tlwiki.tsukuru.info/index.php?title=Remember11_-_the_age_of_infinity

It looks like I tuned back in to KID visual novels at just the right time. Somebody is working on an English fan translation of Remember 11: the age of infinity, and it looks like they're almost done.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/880/r11fanprogress.png

The game sounds like it has a pretty creepy and existential story to it, too. Might be just what I'm looking for after having completed the sorta-but-not-too-much-so-creepy and very-existential story of Ever17.

Here is what I read on Wikipedia. I stopped where this sample stops, so as to not be further spoiled:
The story of Remember11 takes place consecutively in 2011 and 2012 for seven days from January 11 to January 17. The game begins in 2011 with Kokoro Fuyukawa on board a flight as she heads towards the Specified Psychiatric Hospital for Isolation and Aegis (SPHIA) institution to interview a patient with dissociative identity disorder. The plane experiences turbulence and subsequently crashes on Mount Akakura. With the help of Uni Kusuda's directions, Seiji Yomogi is able to carry Lin Mayuzumi and Fuyukawa to take shelter from the blizzard in an emergency cabin. Elsewhere on Aosagi Island on 2012, Satoru Yukidoh falls from the SPHIA facility's clock tower and loses consciousness.

When Fuyukawa wakes up, she realizes she is in a room and is later relieved to find that Kusuda is safe and sound. Kusuda does not recognize Fuyukawa and upon looking at herself in a mirror, Fuyukawa realizes she is in a man's body. A similar event occurs when Yukidoh awakens as he too comes to realize that he is in a woman's body. Both characters switch back to their respective bodies later but the phenomena continues and the two comes to terms with the fact that their consciousness is transcending time and space.

At the emergency cabin, there is a news article dated July 4, 2011, that speaks of the three survivors' deaths on January 17 and of Kusuda being the sole survivor. Yukidoh has a magazine at SPHIA from July that says the same thing.
The plot summary makes me wonder if ...
... if Kusuda (the alleged sole survivor) was a patient en route to SPHIA; and that parts of her dissociative identity disorder include the other individuals. Even if that doesn't wind up being the case, it still sounds like a cool and creepy story.

Anyway, this is something to look forward to, hopefully, in the coming months.

[Doppleganger]

Gotta catch the bus, so this'll be incomplete. I'll finish it at home.

I'm glad it's well-crafted, but ... but I want my well-crafted tragic ending back. ^^;


You can have some of it back if you'd like.

Sora's Path is a "dead end" as far as the time-lines are concerned. It doesn't connect to anything aside from Blick Winkel experiencing it. Both Sara's Path and You's Path are direct derivatives of Coco's Path, not Tsugumi's Path (you'll notice Coco's Path involves events from both Tsugumi + Sora's Paths on top of stuff not done. Logically, You would not have gone to the trouble of recreating the 2017 accident had Blick Winkel not made a surprise appearance in 2017).

Coco's Path exists to explain the very existence of Kid's Route, but everything is based on a "scenario zero" that started the so-called infinity-loop that defines the story.


WTH, how did Hokuto survive that dive into the ocean!? :| The game claimed that hybrids didn't possess the regenerative abilities or the souped-up immune systems that purebreds did, so ... yeah. :| Plo~ot ho~ole! :|


He doesn't have the regenerative abilities, but he's still tougher than the average human. Some marine organisms can survive at pressures as high as that for their lifetimes, and Hokuto only spent something like, ten minutes or so?


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I get it ... so we're Blick Winkel. :) What exactly does that name mean, anyway? "Blick Winkel"? I assume it's more German: but German for what?


"angle view". Most of the German in the novel was picked to tie in with the themes of the novel, or

[Talon87]

Doppel -.- , it was 12.5 ATMOSPHERES OF PRESSURE.

No human could survive that depth. It has nothing to do even with the argument of holding one's breath for that long -- it's a simple matter of 12.5 atmospheres blowing your eyeballs inward, ripping in through your eardrums, squirting up your unguarded nostrils and anus and urethra ... the water'd rush in. You need a diving suit at a minimum, and more realistically you need a submersible with a sturdy metallic hull.

The most accomplished free-divers, like Umberto Pelizzari -- profiled in the SAVAGE SEAS episode "The Deep" -- can stay underwater for five minutes or more, plunging to depths up to 200 feet. Buying more time underwater is easy: get an external source of air -- say, a tank. Want to dive deep? Well, that's trickier. You've then got to deal with water pressure.
Kid is not Umberto Pelizzari. 350+ feet is not 200 feet. (Hell, it's very nearly double it!!)

EDIT: I should point out, this problem existed (and bothered me then, too) with Takeshi's miraculous survival when he exits the IBF compression chamber prematurely on his way back out into LeMU to rescue Tsugumi and Sora. The game says he fired across the room like a bullet. Nyuh-uh. That may be part of it, but he'd also lose his eyeballs (they'd fling right out of his head), his skin would go gas gangrenous thanks to gas exiting the blood vessels and directly entering the skin, etc etc.

[Doppleganger]

It's been a pretty brutal weekend, where was I now. Before I begin, Talon, perhaps you might remember the Clone Law of 2010? I think we know why it was enacted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O29zeHUwQeg).


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I get it ... so we're Blick Winkel. :) What exactly does that name mean, anyway? "Blick Winkel"? I assume it's more German: but German for what?


"angle view". Most of the German (heck, language-in-general) for the novel was picked to tie in with the themes, or as a kind of hint. "Tief Blau" is "Deep Blue" I believe, a name befitting LeMU's existence under the ocean. The opening "Ever17 - Faraway Continent of Lemuria" has lyrics that directly address the nature of the supposed underwater paradise.

Onto Blick Winkel himself. As you say, he is you, Arizona Talon, as you played Ever17. In your world, you are a young adult male playing a video game. Within the context of the game, you are a young adult male psychic. Coco believes you are a psychic because you are "peering" into her world through the eyes of other characters. Her term for psychics is "people of the sun", which if you think about it would conjure up the image of a person "looking down" onto her world through a window, which to us would be the computer screen. That also ties in with Sora's moon analogy, which I talk about later.

Coco can use a similar ability to look not just into "parallel universes" but "alternate realities", as she's aware of what happens in all other routes. Although, it seems she's only aware of alternate realities that pertain to Blick, so it could be she's playing Ever17 alongside you!

Blick has all of Coco's powers and one more - an overactive imagination. When he's feeling particularly edgy, he can overwhelm the senses of the person he's "possessing" or those near him. Remember the kick-the-can incident on the third day, and the "time paradox" event where everyone was on an island, then started to melt? There is no in-game explanation for these strange events, but they only happened when Blick was really, really wound up. Since Blick is merely "perception", a being that can't physically interact with Ever17's world, and so in each of these incidents nothing physical actually happened, they were all mental phenomenon.

There were several hints as to who Blick was in Kid's Routes, designed by You to subliminally suggest that the player is a character. The password puzzle, if you might recall, required you to look at a piece of paper at a certain angle to get the password. The point of this (it was deliberate) was to key in the idea to "look from a different perspective". The password itself, if I recall correctly, had specific kanji in a particular order that not only heavily hinted at Blick's existence, but supposedly spoiled the events in Coco's Path.

Sora herself kind of hinted at Blick's existence, although unintentionally, with her parallel world discussion in Takeshi's Routes.

You have no idea (well, now you might have some idea) about how you'd drive me crazy saying things like "there's a 'hero' character who's experienced everything I have >=(" or "it's almost like Coco's talking to me! :D". Back in the day, BBB and I were discussing your progress on AIM and we were going ballistic when you kept making these incredibly astute, almost right but just out of reach comments so consistently.

Blick's role is one of the biggest reasons Ever17 is my favourite novel, and still the best I've played. On top of a solid science fiction story, with well-defined characters, an engaging plot and a blend of themes ranging from Western occultism to Japanese folklore, there was an original and still unique (to KID) exploitation of the visual novel's first person perspective. The players instinctively assumed the roles of "Takeshi" or "Kid", and were completely unaware that some characters in the story could see and interact directly with the player. Not until this little secret is worked into the plot itself does the player realize this. On top of everything, the player is able to use his unique powers to heroically save Takeshi and Coco's lives, as well as bring everyone back together as a family.

(although truthfully, You-aki fell in love with you Talon, not Hokuto =P)

The novel even addresses the issue of it being a work of fiction, through Sora's moon analogy. Even if you as a person accept the novel as fiction, the characters in the novel believe in you and know you made a meaningful impact on their lives. So all you have to do is believe in them, and since you mutually acknowledge your existences they might as well exist.

Ever17 was the first novel to "deceive" the player in some way, and to treat the player as a character when the player himself isn't aware he is one. Other novels have tried to do the same - Chaos;Head tried something similar, but not exactly the same but it wasn't nearly as well done. However, as I said, this technique is still unique to KID and is the primary reason Ever17 wouldn't work as an anime or manga.


Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :oops: , that melted my heart, that did. The ending theme song when you beat Coco's path is adorable. So warm. So happy. So glad to be alive-sounding.


I know, right? :)

It's sung by Sora, too.

I felt great for her, and treated that song as an expression of her happiness. Because in every route ends she seems destined for absolute tragedy, she was finally able to exist as a person. Since her friends are biologically immortal, she can live as long as they can.

Did you know Sora is Yuubiseiharukana's sister, and Yuubiseiakikana's aunt? The man who programmed her and build her hardware was You-haru's father, Tanaka Yoichi. He was assigned to that project after he was forced out of the pharmaceutical research department of Leiblich, if I recall correctly.

I don't know if you played the Tsugumi-Sora Bad End, but there's some information in it worth noting -

In the bad end, Takeshi's last moments of life are with You. He's trying to comfort her as she's cold, trembling and coughing up blood (he's not in much better condition) and she dies right there, but not of Tief Blau! She talks about a bursting in her heart before she passes, which is a hint (I didn't pick up at all until getting this ending again) to her heart condition that lead to You-aki's birth. Had she not recieved a transfusion she would have likely died not long after the LeMU accident.

It's also worth noting she tried confessing to Takeshi, so she must have been attracted to him too, although after all the years I don't think she still is.



Uhh, wow. Takeshi melting was kinda ... grotesque? 8O Unnecessary? :? Uh ... yeah. Maybe that's what people mean when they say that they shat bricks? lol


Nope, that was you getting a bit too emotional. =P


Pretty hard to believe that Yuubiseiharukana could have orchestrated all of this. I mean, why the hell would Leiblich Pharmaceuticals, the government, and/or wealthy donors sponsor this 2034 project of hers? Seems awfully expensive to reconstruct a four-story aquatic theme park only to blow it all up.


We don't know the full extent of their involvement, but as far as the repairs to the park itself their influence was fairly limited.

Kaburaki and Yuubiseiharukana joined Leiblich after they left college/graduate school, with Kaburaki as a researcher and Yuubiseiharukana as the executive consultant for the park, as her archeological research was into the occult and so she had a specialty when it came to Lemuria related material. She was a large factor in keeping the park more or less the same for 2037, and the two worked together to bring Tsugumi, Hokuto and Sara to the park as well as cause the accident. I suspect Kaburaki probably had more influence in that regard, because he'd be more privy to the test subject information.

Leiblich itself repaired the park to draw suspicion away from the company to the Tief Blau outbreak, because Tief Blau hit Japan first and spread from there, so they quickly and covertly repaired the park (which took a year and a half) while leaving the IBF completely quarantined. I'd imagine if they hadn't epidemiologists might have been able to deduce that the virus actually came from under the ocean as opposed to across from it.


Anyway, this is something to look forward to, hopefully, in the coming months.

Ah, Remember 11. A friend named MOUIKKAI played it in Chinese (KID is rather famous in China) and said it was in the same quality class as Ever17, so I'm looking forward to it as well. It's KID's legacy.

You should pick up Rance in the meantime though! :O It's not nearly as sophisticated, but it's barrels of fun and the story is (surprisingly) good.


EDIT: I should point out, this problem existed (and bothered me then, too) with Takeshi's miraculous survival when he exits the IBF compression chamber prematurely on his way back out into LeMU to rescue Tsugumi and Sora. The game says he fired across the room like a bullet. Nyuh-uh. That may be part of it, but he'd also lose his eyeballs (they'd fling right out of his head), his skin would go gas gangrenous thanks to gas exiting the blood vessels and directly entering the skin, etc etc.

That's the one that bothered me, where Takeshi (who died in Tsugumi's Path) was able to wake up and get back to the IBF. If Blick hadn't actually played as Takeshi I don't think he would have been able to convince him to get up, but no matter how infectious Tsugumi's cells were I was a bit skeptical Takeshi could gain that much durability that quickly.

As far as Hokuto is concerned, I'm going to just chock it up to him being as close to a super-human as possible. He might have just have been made of proteins that made him more resistant to the pressure and force. During Sara's Path, he did perform that supposedly impossible swim with Sara from Dritte-Stock to the surface, and since he's descended from Takeshi, perhaps their ancestors used to freely deep-sea dive? =P

[Talon87]

Yeah, I never got a single bad end. I think it's the main reason (if not the only reason!?) I don't have all of the artwork or paths unlocked still. (See provided photos.)

Yuu's route - 17/18 pictures (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos1.jpg)
Tsugumi's route - 18/19 pictures (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos2.jpg)
Sora's route - 13/15 pictures (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos3.jpg)
Sara's route - 16/16 pictures (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos4.jpg)
Coco's route - 20/20 pictures (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos5.jpg)
Takeshi & the Kid - 9/9 pictures (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos6.jpg)
Bonus Artwork - 14/17 pictures (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos7.jpg)

Route Shortcuts - 30/32 shortcuts unlocked (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/talon87/photos8.jpg)

[Doppleganger]

I don't know if you clicked my spoiler or not, but the Bad Ends are actually worth going through. Kid's weren't as good as the single Tsugumi-Sora Bad End, but they were easier to avoid too...and were pretty sad.

Tsugumi-Sora Bad End was the first end I got, and I felt it was the "natural" way the game would have normally worked out. Without Tsugumi overcoming her anxiousness around other people, and Sora not developing enough past her basic programming to bend LeMU's rules, everyone was doomed to die in that theme park.

Now that you've finished, I think I should reveal something I've been holding onto for a while - today is yesterday was Tsugumi's birthday!

...truthfully, that's not it, but I was just informed of it and thought it an interesting coincidence. No, it's actually some details that might hint our heroes lived happily ever (http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/6006/1278464307188.jpg) after.

This (http://www.youtube.com/user/RPGMania2) person appeared in the AnimeSuki Ever17 topic either late last year or earlier this year and randomly held out translations for the drama CD's that occur post-game, giving even more closure to in my view an already complete game. Sadly, these aren't as polished as the Planetarian drama CD translation (which was just like a fansub, but with a black screen) but they're functional.

KID's universe was never intended to be restricted to Ever17, as Never7 takes place in the same universe, where Cure virus (I think?) plays a similar role to Tief Blau in Ever17. Remember 11 might take place in the same world, I'm not entirely sure.

[YUKI.N]

So I've started playing Ever17. Seems like I'm on You's path (I'm playing as Kid by the way). Just reached the part where You "cast a spell" on Kid's arm injury. The reason I'm making note of this is because...

Remember11 spoilers

Didn't Kokoro recite the same spell when she kissed the scar on Yuni's forehead? Could she be related to You in some way? Or was this just an easter egg?

By the way, is "You" or "Yuu" more proper? I notice only Talon favors the latter. I'd personally prefer to use "Yuu" to avoid confusion, unless the spelling is relevant, as Dopple seemed to hint at on page two.

Oh, and I've only glanced at the first couple pages of the thread as I was playing, so my experience has been mostly spoiler-free so far. I'm trying to be careful since I'm extremely late to the party, and there are no spoiler tags/progress percentages to measure against this time.

On that note, is it safe to talk here about both games without spoiler tags? I put the Remember11 reference in a spoiler just in case, even though I think everyone here is well past that point.

Edit- Giant cosmic whale reminds me of Link's Awakening. WTF and FTW.

[Doppleganger]

Please keep the R11 stuff spoiler-tagged. I don't think I'll revisit the game until tomorrow night, where I hope to keep pace with Talon.

As far as spelling goes, from the pure Japanese her name is "Yuu", no questions about it. But the phonetics (emphasized by spelling it "You") does become important sometime down the line.

[YUKI.N]

Can I still report on my Ever17 progress without spoilers? Seeing as you guys have already played it? Or should I keep future newbies in mind?

And Dopple, you've started Satoru's chapter in R11, right? If so, then it's safe for you to click the spoiler, since it only refers to an event in Kokoro's chapter.

[Doppleganger]

Spoilers are fine, since BPK has yet to waltz in here. I'll check out that spoiler in a bit.

[Talon87]

1. 優 is the first character in You's name. It is read yuu.
2. ゆう (yuu) is pronounced "yuu." よう (you) is pronounced "yo." The name is Yuu, not Yo.
3. Spelling it as "You" can be very confusing to newcomers who may mistake the character named You for actually being you the player.

These are three strong reasons for spelling it as Yuu. However ...

4. People visually associate that face, voice, and story with the name "You" since it is "Y-o-u" which is printed to the screen time after time after time.

This is a pretty strong reason for spelling it You.

So I'd say go either way. I think I spelled it as You in the Remember11 thread quite a few times. But you'd never catch me dead spelling the name Yuubiseiakikana any other way. Except maybe Yuubisei-- OW!

*Doppel smacks Talon*

[Doppleganger]

Yeah, you deserved that smack. :lol: I saw what you did there. =P

[Raide]

Remember11 spoilers
Didn't Kokoro recite the same spell when she kissed the scar on Yuni's forehead? Could she be related to You in some way? Or was this just an easter egg?
Kyumeikan Women's University and Kyumeikan Women's High School.

[YUKI.N]

Kyumeikan Women's University and Kyumeikan Women's High School.

I forget where exactly Kokoro said she learned the spell from. So she learned it from You (or You's mother) at school?

Reached the good end of You's path. (Based on the ending, I think I'll stick with "You".) So her mother is... Herself? Don't tell me it's a grandfather paradox or something along those lines. o_O;

I also really hope Coco's not another "comatose girl's astral projection". =/ It was innovative the first time I saw it, now it's getting kinda old... (Granted, Ever17 was first, it's just that I've been hit with this plot device twice already in such a short timespan. x.X I'm approaching my monthly limit of sugar-sweet, time-frozen lolis, lol.)

Finally, who the heck is Blick Winkel?! >.<; I know you guys won't answer that, but I ran across his name several times when I was reading R11 discussions... When will I find out this person's identity?

Phew... On a lighter note, I went back and read up to speed on the discussion, and I'm surprised folks had trouble with the password puzzle. ^^; I recognized it immediately even though it was in Japanese, and got it right on the first try. *shrug* Guess it really depends if you've been exposed to those kinds of puzzles before, as Talon and I were.

Oh, and suggestions for which path/character I should choose next?

[Talon87]

Thanks for the mention. I was about to shout out "BUT I FOUND IT TO BE EASY! D:" until I read that. Then I sighed in relief. :)

Blick Winkel = Path 5. Mid-to-late Path 5. Look forward to it. ;-)

You's identity: I'd love to discuss this with you, even from the restricted perspective you currently enjoy, but I can't separate in my mind the facts I learned from You x Kid's path vs. the facts I learned from other paths vs. the facts I learned from the all-important fifth path.

I don't mean to bias you, but I'd strongly encourage playing Tsugumi's next. Doppel would probably encourage you to play Sora's. I dunno. To me, there's no better story in the entire game than Tsugumi's. In fact ...

Best story in the game = Tsugumi's story arc in Path 5
Second best story in the game = Tsugumi's normal-mode story (which for me was Path 2)

[Doppleganger]

Finally, who the heck is Blick Winkel?! >.<; I know you guys won't answer that, but I ran across his name several times when I was reading R11 discussions... When will I find out this person's identity?


You won't find out about Blick until you enter Coco's Path.



Oh, and suggestions for which path/character I should choose next?

It's up to you. I had advised against playing as Kid first, based on my experiences with Talon and BBB - Takeshi's Routes focus more on fleshing out the time period, science fiction atmosphere, level of technology and such. For me, it was like playing as Satoru before playing as Kokoro.

[Talon87]

Wow. Re-reading my posts on pages 1 and 2 is a painful trip down memory lane. What an asshole. What a pervert. What an imbecile.

I hope I've at least changed somewhat. =P ;-)

For the record, I took this path-approach to the game and have no regrets about it. I found it to be a very enjoyable way to play the game for me.

Kid x You
Takeshi x Tsugumi
Kid x Sara
Takeshi x Sora
Kid x Coco
All the pairings were as per Doppel's explicit recommendations. Even today, I'm still sort of clueless as to whether you even can attempt other pairings (like Kid x Sora, for example). It just doesn't seem feasible, given the characters' personalities.

Of these, I think I can safely say that pre-Path 5 I liked Tsugumi > Yuu > Sara > Sora > Coco, and that post-Path 5 I liked Tsugumi > Sara > Yuu > Sora > Coco. I mean liked as in "enjoyed their stories," not liked as in "crushed on them" as I embarrassingly go on and on about like a nincompoop in the thread's earlier pages.

[YUKI.N]

Thanks for the mention. I was about to shout out "BUT I FOUND IT TO BE EASY! D:" until I read that. Then I sighed in relief. :)

Heh heh. You're welcome, Talon. XD I had the exact same thoughts about the puzzle until I read your post.

It's up to you. I had advised against playing as Kid first, based on my experiences with Talon and BBB - Takeshi's Routes focus more on fleshing out the time period, science fiction atmosphere, level of technology and such. For me, it was like playing as Satoru before playing as Kokoro.

I didn't realize the choice I'd made at the time. ^^; I'll try playing as Takeshi next. Like Talon, I'm initially drawn to Tsugumi's looks and personality, so I think I'll follow in his footsteps.

Edit- WTF Coco's alive this time? o.O;