Non-Japanese Animé

[Bluejolteon]

quick question: is there any anime that isnt japanese? not trying to be offensive but it seems every anime out there comes from japan

[Raptor Jesus]

quick question: is there any anime that isnt japanese? not trying to be offensive but it seems every anime out there comes from japan

derp.

Anime is a term which refers to Japanese cartoons and the art style. So yes, anime is typically only from Japan.

[YUKI.N]

Technically doesn't animé refer to all forms of animation in Japan, regardless of origin or style?

[Talon87]

Technically doesn't animé refer to all forms of animation in Japan, regardless of origin or style?
Yes. Anime is the Japanese word for cartoons. Unlike Americans who might freak out if you try and call The Simpsons a cartoon ("IT'S NOT A CARTOON! IT'S AN ANIMATED SITCOM! :evil:" :lol: ... I actually agree but whatever: it's totally a semantics thing! :lol: ), the Japanese don't split hairs over this. If it's animated, then it's an-i-ma-ted. And if it's animated, it's a cartoon by definition. Doesn't mean it's a cartoon for children, but it's still a cartoon.

Loki is right though that there's a difference between how the Japanese use the term and how we use it in English-speaking countries. It's the same with some other Japanese loan words like hentai or kamikaze. It's important to recognize these differences and to know what it is that we're wanting to talk about.

If the question is, "Are there any anime cartoons which aren't Japanese?", then the answer is clearly yes. But if the question is "Are there any anime Japanese cartoons which aren't Japanese?", then the answer is just as clearly no. And, finally, if the question is "Are there any anime Japanese-style cartoons which aren't Japanese?", then the answer is yes, a few, but people will argue whether they're really anime or not. For sample answers to that last question, consider things like Afro Samurai or any number of the anime-influenced cartoons listed here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime-influenced_animation). (For Christ's sake: the sky bisons in Avatar: the Last Airbender are basically white Totoro (http://laurenbuckley.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/myneighbourtotoro12.jpg)s with six legs, a beaver tail, and a gray arrow! You could even say they're one-part Totoro and one-part CatBus!)

[Doppleganger]

I think the most functional definition for anime are "Animated productions made by Japanese, for Japanese". Because especially these days, there's so much cross pollination and quality imitation defining things based on style and storytelling isn't going to work.

An example is Batman: Gotham Knight, where Marvel hired a bunch of anime studios to go and do different Batman stories in "anime-style". Is this technically anime?

I argue no, because-

1. It was intended for American audiences.
2. It was written and produced by Americans.
3. The Japanese only contributed the animation, art and art direction, and otherwise had no involvement in the creation process.

This isn't much different from American companies farming animation duties to Japanese companies, like they did in the 1980's with Transformers (a non-anime). What was done with B:GK is merely a visual/label gimmick to try and expand the potential consumer market.

However, is the Iron Man anime, an anime? Yes, it is (lol), because Madhouse had creative control over the project and it was originally aired in Japan.

Korean-style "manhwa" is actually almost indistinguishable from manga, so unless you use this definition or can immediately tell from the character names it isn't Japanese, you wouldn't know any better.

[Raptor Jesus]

Batman: Gotham Knight
Marvel

D:<

[Holy Emperor]

Korean-style "manhwa" is actually almost indistinguishable from manga

Except that they all suck.

[Raptor Jesus]

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5615/bishiebruce.png

WTF HAPPENED TO BRUCE?

[empoleon dynamite]

Avatar: The Last Airbender and Teen Titans, to name a few.

[Raptor Jesus]

I think the most functional definition for anime are "Animated productions made by Japanese, for Japanese".

I actually disagree with this for the most part. One of anime's biggest market is the USA and there are plenty of shows targeted at American audiences. Big O is a prime example as well as Cowboy Bebop. While both were made in Japan, by the Japanese, and was shown in Japan, their target was Americans.

In fact, Cowboy Bebop's first airing in Japan was heavily censored, skipping more than half the episodes due to the graphic violence and Big O only got a second season because of Cartoon Network.

[Doppleganger]

D:<

derp

It's all Greek to me.

I actually disagree with this for the most part. One of anime's biggest market is the USA and there are plenty of shows targeted at American audiences. Big O is a prime example as well as Cowboy Bebop. While both were made in Japan, by the Japanese, and was shown in Japan, their target was Americans.

I don't know if you can prove that, though. Both titles were made by Sunrise and had Western elements in them, but nobody makes anime explicitly for American audiences unless there's American money somewhere in the budget. Maybe Sunrise was thinking "with these ideas, it's very possible Americans will like this, so let's try to make it with America in mind" but their main target is always Japan first.

I feel it's just that American audiences are more comfortable with Western ideas in anime, also seen with Baccano!, Ultimate Muscle and Eva's heavy Christian themes. Even using the same staff and director, Samurai Champloo couldn't even approach Bebop's popularity and legacy.


In fact, Cowboy Bebop's first airing in Japan was heavily censored, skipping more than half the episodes due to the graphic violence and Big O only got a second season because of Cartoon Network.

Big O's second season is interesting, because Cartoon Network/William's Steet tried to interfere with how the story was going, and people didn't like it, so the popularity went down from the first season.

[Talon87]

Is that really even true? Looking on ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=13&page=25), I find mixed evidence which could either be used to support or to refute that theory. Like:
less than half of the episodes originally aired in Spring 1998, but then the entire show was aired in Japan from Fall 1998 to Spring 1999
every single episode aired in Japan before the very first episode was aired in America (1999 vs. 2001)
some of the episodes were withheld in America because of 9/11
So I mean, you could say that the Japanese didn't originally broadcast some of the episodes because they were "too much" for the Japanese, but (a) they eventually did air them all, (b) they did it before we did, and (c) we too avoided airing episodes because of cultural sensitivities.

I dunno. If there's proof (like, interviews with the directors and the producers and stuff) that Bebop was meant to penetrate the American market in a big way, then I'd find that really cool. But it doesn't seem likely. :? It was a big budget show and it'd be hard to believe that they'd put all their big budget eggs in such a shaky basket. (In 1998, once the show had already finished early production and was already airing, we were only JUST getting our first taste of Pokemon in America. In other words, at the same time Bebop aired, the extent of an "anime craze" in America was Sailor Moon and DBZ DiC dub-edits airing at 6am and 6:30am on your local syndicated television stations. :lol: )

[Raptor Jesus]

Hmm. I know Bebop didn't get a full airing on Japanese broadcast television and wasn't fully aired until it was shown on satellite television.

I can't find any citation saying Bebop was made for America, so it might have had just been someone telling me at a convention or something. Which means you can possibly ignore it.

Big O's second season is interesting, because Cartoon Network/William's Steet tried to interfere with how the story was going, and people didn't like it, so the popularity went down from the first season.

Even without the second season's horrific drop in quality, the first season was intended to be made for overseas popularity, as stated by Keiichi Sato. This means by your definition, "made in Japan for Japan", Big O wouldn't qualify as anime, but it is.

[Muyotwo]

Except that they all suck.
Veritas is all right.

[Doppleganger]

Dang it guys, I can't tell who's who in Whoville! Y'all a bunch of magical ponies to me!


Even without the second season's horrific drop in quality, the first season was intended to be made for overseas popularity, as stated by Keiichi Sato. This means by your definition, "made in Japan for Japan", Big O wouldn't qualify as anime, but it is.

I'll run with that, but it's hard to believe if he said it retroactively. Big O bombed in Japan and he considers it his master-work, so I don't think he wouldn't try to link its success overseas to premeditation. We'll probably never know.

Gotham Knight had some entertaining bits, but on the whole it was pretty ho-hum. I would have downloaded the original Iron Man anime in a heart-beat if it still had kept that "liquid gold" budget.

Except that they all suck.

Shin Angyo Onshi is really good.