Shiny Legendaries & Ash's Pikachu, Celebi comin' soon. (US)

[Lindz]

When: January 3rd to 9th (Raikou), January 17th to 23rd (Entei), January 31st to February 6th (Suicune)
Where: Gamestop
Versions: Diamond / Pearl / Platinum / HeartGold / SoulSilver
Source: http://www.pokemongoldsilver.com/us/#/news/trio/


When: January 30th to February 5 (Pikachu)
Where: Toys R Us
Versions: Diamond / Pearl / Platinum / HeartGold / SoulSilver
Source: http://www.toysrus.com/shop/index.jsp?categoryId=4311963


When: February 27th to March 7th (Celebi)
Where: Gamestop
Versions: Diamond / Pearl / Platinum / HeartGold / SoulSilver
Source: http://www.ripten.com/2010/12/31/celebi-pokemon-giveaway-event-heading-to-gamestop-justin6464/


Let's hear it for in-store events!

[Jerichi]

>When: January 3rd to 9th (Raikou), January 17th to 23rd (Entei), January 31st to February 6th (Suicune)

This annoys me. I don't want to go in thrice to get three Wonder Cards to clog my game with.

[Raptor Jesus]

Why no WiFi events?

[Talon87]

It is odd, especially since the Ash's Pikachu event was a WiFi event for Japan. Of course we've had numerous WiFi events in the past (most recently Mew just a few months ago), and usually when Japan gets a WiFi, we get it as a WiFi as well. I'm not surprised by the legendary cat-dog-mammalsonallfours =P trio being handed out at Toys R Us since that was a theater release in Japan and we've never had an analogue in the States for the video games. (TCG promos handed out at theaters, yes. Video game promos distributed at theaters, no.) But it is pretty weird that there's no word on WiFi Ash's Pikachu. Oh well, whatever.

Jeri, one option is to bring multiple packs with you, one at a time and one for each cat-dog-mammal. If you're like me and you have less than three 4th generation gamepaks, then you'll just have to decide which of your gamepaks is going to get a little crowded out with Wonder Cards. I sympathize, though. I wish that Wonder Card space was effectively infinite (e.g. our game paks could hold 100+ cards). What is it again? Three? Six? I remember it's some number that I think I've already eclipsed on Heart Gold.

[Doppleganger]

That character barely looks like Ash.

[Talon87]

The DPP anime provided the visual pinnacle of the original character design. Perhaps bored of drawing it, the animators opted to completely re-invent how the humans are drawn with the BW anime's debut. The most noticeable change is the eyes.

[Jerichi]

I'm sure I can gather together enough 4th gen packs to distribute them evenly (I have like 4), but with only one system, it's a major pain in the ass to do that since trading is difficult.

[Talon87]

I don't think that owning a second DS would make it that much less of a pain in the ass for you: it'll just relegate the suffering to you and you alone. ;-)

[Jerichi]

Well I was more thinking of the pain of having to transfer them to BW when the time comes.

[Lindz]

Updated with Celebi infos.

Buy new generation games.
Not be able to get Zorua without old generation games.
???
Profit.

At least its requiring main series games instead of spinoffs like Ranger with its Manaphy hoarding. But it sure seems harder then ever (from the outside looking in) to catch 'em all.

[Raptor Jesus]

I went to Gamestop by chance as I was passing through the area and got the Raikou. It's level 30 with Zap Cannon, Aura Sphere, ExtremeSpeed, and Weatherball. Weatherball is a bit of an LOLWAT?!? but Aura Sphere and ExtremeSpeed are quite a welcome addition to its otherwise bland movepool.

[Talon87]

Cool. What is its nature?

[Raptor Jesus]

Rash. IVs are random though.

[Kindrindra]

Rain Dance+Thunder+Weather Ball= Profit.

Oh, wait. You don't even need Rain Dance any more, thanks to Politoed. Nice.

[empoleon dynamite]

Do you use Smogon at all Kind? Using Raikou as a Rain Dance sweeper would be a waste as there are far better Pokemon for the job

[Jerichi]

>Do you use Smogon at all Kind?

Urrrgh.

I know what you mean but it really frustrates me.

News: Smogon is not the whole of the Pokemon metagame. What they say is not the Word of God.

[empoleon dynamite]

I meant their sim, Shoddy Battle. Probably shouldn't have used it in that sentence ('play competitively' would have been more appropriate).

On Smogon though, I don't thinkthey're word of god but they have a monopoly over competitive battling and that's a fact. And I think it's justified too, no other fandom puts nearly as much work into their tier list and metagame, which is why sites such as Serebii have given up on theirs and use Smogon's. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, it's just I find it equally frustrating when people dis smogon over things like their elitism, tier lists, bans etc.

[Kindrindra]

Actually, I use smogon quite a lot.

You do have a point, there. With the likes of Zapdos to compete with for a Thunder-abusing Rain Sweeper... yeah.

[Jerichi]

I meant their sim, Shoddy Battle. Probably shouldn't have used it in that sentence ('play competitively' would have been more appropriate).

On Smogon though, I don't thinkthey're word of god but they have a monopoly over competitive battling and that's a fact.

No, they really don't.

I'm not saying they aren't a repository of information for good strategies and the basis of the Pokemon metagame, but they aren't the end-all be-all of the competitive world. There's a lot of elements of the metagame they just don't cover for a variety of reasons (though they are getting better, I'll admit) and their community gets really stuck in the idea of "this is how the Metagame is and this is how it should be". It doesn't really encourage a variety of interpretations of a really varied and complex metagame that is made a lot better by tweaking some elements (Stealth Rock, for instance).

I just don't like the "my way or the highway" mentality it breeds by standardizing movesets and gameplay clauses (outside of some things like Sleep/Freeze/Evasion clause that just make things wildly luck-based).

As for the whole "monopoly" thing, as I stated before, they don't touch on a lot of aspects of the metagame. Sure, they could be considered fringe, but most of their metagame is very standard OU with extremely limited teams and not much else. It's really hard to find a good UU game and almost impossible to find NU games on their servers, which I personally think is a much more fun and interesting game than OU due to its sheer variety and differing aspects. When a metagame centers around only a few set rules and ideas, it becomes stale fast. Yeah, you could probably argue a monopoly on OU, but even then, I have trouble agreeing.

In conclusion, I don't like how Smogon is so focused on their game and only their game and this post is really scatterbrained otherwise.

[Kindrindra]

New Announcement: 'Crown Beasts' (the shiny beasts) shall be available from November 7th- BY WI-FI.


YES. YESYESYES.

[Talon87]

Where did you read this? :? Always cite claims like these, please.

[Jerichi]

Is it really that hard to just look at Bulbanews?

[Kindrindra]

Actually, I first read it on Veekun, but it's also on Bulbanews and Serebii.


...But, according to SPPf, it's only like this in Europe. -_-

[Holy Emperor]

Real men only get their news from UPN.


Yup, another quiet day in Pokemon today.

[Jerichi]

I don't think I'm gonna be able to get Entei due to snow. >>;

[S_M]

Entei doesn't come out until the 17th and it goes til the 23rd? I know you guys down south aren't used to dealing with snow but that's a week from now xd

[Jerichi]

Oh I thought they were one after another.

[empoleon dynamite]

Btw guys Europe are getting this event via wifi soon so if it's anything like the Shiny Pichu event was you guys should be able to get it too

[Talon87]

That's nice to hear, seeing as I totally was too lazy to go and get Raikou but am now all "Awww maaaaaan! :(" now that I've missed the chance to get one. Still, Entei was always the one I was most looking forward to, and I haven't missed him yet, so it's all good. I just wish they could have released a normal-looking Entei with Flare Blitz alongside the shiny one. (C'mon, guys! Give us Entei fans a break, will ya? The guy looks so goddamn cool! So enable us to use him in our Just For Fun adventures, for Pete's sake!)

[Muyotwo]

I picked up one for each of my games, I'll let you have a Raikou if you like, Talon.

[Talon87]

I picked up one for each of my games, I'll let you have a Raikou if you like, Talon.
That's very kind of you, Muyo, but it looks like it may not be necessary if the European WiFi creatures are accessible to Americans. See below. I'll let you know if I have trouble.

New Announcement: 'Crown Beasts' (the shiny beasts) shall be available from November 7th- BY WI-FI.

Correction: I looked it up on Bulbapedia and they're reporting the much more sensible date of February 7, not November 7. :roll:

Source: http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Crown_Beasts_to_be_available_over_Wi-Fi

This was the main reason I originally questioned you and demanded a source. I couldn't believe that they'd release them via WiFi but do it on such a random date, months and months after the various international releases of the games. February 7, a month before the games release in most nations, is a much more sensible date.

This raises the question: why didn't they just do this for us in America, too? :? I mean, even if we will be able to tap into the Europeans' offer (and will we? Is it a certain thing? Nobody seems to be reporting it as certainly tap in-able ... =\), why did they feel the need to have special GameStop distributions? Seems like business as usual in the US of A. I guess GameStop have fallen on hard times (NOBODY LIKES YOU!) and this was a friendly agreement between them and Nintendo in the hopes that it might get little feet and their parents' large wallets into the stores where purchases just might be made.

[Jerichi]

>This raises the question: why didn't they just do this for us in America, too?

Capitalism.

Nintendo has had a nice deal with Gamestop ever since those shiny Zigzagoon they gave out way back in the days of RSE. It's only gotten bigger since then, so on occasion, they give events to the store, get promotion for their games (like when I went, I prereserved White) and are likely to sell more games (like when I went, I bought Assassin's Creed [though they weren't likely to make much of a profit of a 10 dollar game]).

[Talon87]

Uh, I already said that. :?

[Jerichi]

Why ask the question if you're just going to answer it yourself?

[Talon87]

Let's see ... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric)

[Jerichi]

I understand what a rhetorical question is but you simply seem to expand upon your initial curiosity as if you're making a supposition.

[Talon87]

Fair enough: it was a supposition. Thanks for the evidence-based confirmation, then. I just didn't want you to think that I didn't make the connection ... when I made the connection before anyone had even replied.

[Raptor Jesus]

I bought Assassin's Creed [though they weren't likely to make much of a profit of a 10 dollar game]).

If it was a used copy, 100% profit. Buying used games is actually Gamestops way of making most of their profit. Buy a game off a kid for $3 and sell it for $10. It's also why the gaming industry usually hates Gamestop, but has little options on how to deal with it.

[Treepandaone]

EA now sell online separately for used games to make back some of the profit lost.

[Talon87]

Friendly reminder: the time to get Entei is now. I only just remembered. Panicked, thought "SHIT! NOT AGAIN!?", checked thread, breathed sigh of relief.

[Raptor Jesus]

I have a feeling that it will be the Flare Blitz Entei (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Entei_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29#By_events), just like Raikou's moveset being the M13 Pokemon Movie moveset.

Sadly, this means Suicune will have a lot of worthless moves :x

[Kindrindra]

I have a feeling that it will be the Flare Blitz Entei (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Entei_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29#By_events), just like Raikou's moveset being the M13 Pokemon Movie moveset.

Sadly, this means Suicune will have a lot of worthless moves :x

Isn't that the reason we all wanted to get them?

Yeah, the only really competitive thing Suicune got is Air Slash, which gives them some very nice coverage.

[Raptor Jesus]

No, the reason I wanted them was because I didn't want to run around the HG trying to catch them. Does this make me lazy? Yes. Yes it does.

[Kindrindra]

No, the reason I wanted them was because I didn't want to run around the HG trying to catch them. Does this make me lazy? Yes. Yes it does.

+1

[Raptor Jesus]

Oh well. I missed Entei due to extremely cold weather.

[Talon87]

D:

I neglected to go.

*anime-style fall down onto all fours, head hanging*

[Raptor Jesus]

Crap. Got to go to Gamestop soon or I will miss Suicune. :x

[Arnold]

screw going to the shops, actually more like god knows when they're coming to Oz, I just downloaded the Wifi event rom sets and I need to send them from my r4 to my and Tess's Games.

[Raptor Jesus]

Got Suicune yesterday. Met a guy. We battled. He beat my by a lucky Tri-Attack freezing my Metagross. I am sad.

Here's the stats for a perfect Suicune :x

SUICUNE LVL 30 Relaxed
HP/AT/DE/SA/SD/SP
109/59/91/68/83/58

[Kindrindra]

European events confirmed for download everywhere (Serebii).

YESYESYESYESYES!

[Milotic111]

Yup, just downloaded Raikou.

I wonder can you get all three of them in one game?

[Raptor Jesus]

You can have up to three Wonder Cards at a time. So if you have any you want to keep, you should collect the Pokemon from the Delivery Guy before you download the next one.

EDIT: Finally got a good-ish Suicune

Suicune - #245 (Relaxed)
HP: 31
Att: 7 - 9
Def: 30 - 31
SpA: 27 - 29
SpD: 0 - 3
Speed: 4 - 6

The SpD sucks, but that's what Calm Mind is for :x

[Milotic111]

OK, so it's not a wondercard exclusive.

That means I'll be RNG-ing a Raikou on wednesday. If you want a good Suicune I could RNG-abuse one for you if you don't consider it cheating that is.

[Raptor Jesus]

Does RNG abuse even work on Delivery Pokemon? They're not exactly the same as eggs.

[Kindrindra]

Does RNG abuse even work on Delivery Pokemon? They're not exactly the same as eggs.

It does, actually. Lots of people do it.

[Milotic111]

It's actually the easiest way to get them to perfect. Especially when the natures are fixed (like with these guys).

In fact, I can only catch and wondercard abuse, I don't do eggs. I just breed with a flawless Ditto if I need egg moves, that gets it close enough.

[Raptor Jesus]

Oh well. I won't bother trying until maybe Celebi. It's not vitally important for me.

[Milotic111]

Just got a 31/30/30/31/31/31 HP-ice Raikou. Took me 20 resets, I'm rusty...

[Kindrindra]

Downloaded Raikou.

Havn't gotten him yet- still have to softreset for the perfect Mew.

[Milotic111]

Mew is annoying, damn natures. I got one good one, still working on the second.

[Kindrindra]

Yeah, I havn't even decided what I want to use the pink thing for.

I mean, there's always the usual lolBatonPass, but she's so versitile I might use her for something else.

[Raptor Jesus]

When did they hand out Mews?

[Holy Emperor]

Oh man I would of went for a Mew. :(

[Kindrindra]

It was on WiFi last year- to celebrate G/S's anniversary or something like that.

[Raptor Jesus]

D:<

[Kindrindra]

Realized I can download it on my other games, too.
Downloaded it on Platinum, realized I had a backlog of stuff to get on that too, and got started.

I am now the proud owner of a Superiorly IVed... Wait for it... Pichu. >_>


Ah, here's the stats.
Jolly Nature
31/25/11/30/21/15

Could work for a nice physical attacking Pikachu. Sub+3 attacks is what I'm thinking.

Now, to get a perfect Jirachi.


EDIT: Could of kept going for a better one, but I'm good with this one, especially as I already have two more.

Adamant Nature
9/25/25/9/25/9

Choice Scarf? Why, yes, I think so.


I think I'll go for a mixed RAikou.



EDIT2: ...If the OT is to be belived, Spring and Summer are girls, and Winter is a boy.

[ObviousUser2010]

I missed getting the Pikachu from Toys R us. Anyone get it?

[Kindrindra]

I missed getting the Pikachu from Toys R us. Anyone get it?

I got it when I went to the prerelease tour.

It has a Naughty nature and comes with a Light Ball, and has Volt Tackle, Thunderbolt, Iron Tail and Quick Attack as moves.

[Kindrindra]

Got an outstanding Rash 25/31/30/25/30/25 Mew. Well, it's likely higher than that, but I'm okay with this. Very happy, as I was kinda hoping for a -defense +offense stat.

[Milotic111]

Got my perfect adamant Entei:

31/31/31/31/31/31

I didn't bother with Suicune, I only got it for the Zoarark event.

[Kindrindra]

Got my perfect adamant Entei:

31/31/31/31/31/31

I didn't bother with Suicune, I only got it for the Zoarark event.

Nice.

Planning on running a Flare Blitz/Stone Edge/ESpeed/Howl one. Why no one runs Howl is beyond me. Sure, it's supar when compared to Swords Dance- still makes you hit as hard as a Choice Band set after one use. People tend to get 'Not perfect' and 'unusable' mixed up.

[Talon87]

Entei is perceived as being a "one hit kill or one hit be killed" kind of Pokemon due to the pure-Fire typing and the fact that you're never going to invest in his defenses. That's probably why, Kind.

Wanna know something cool though? Under the right conditions, Entei can struggle Deoxys to death before Deoxys can kill Entei. This involves maxing Entei's attack, speed, HP, defense, and special defense EVs as well as having straight 31's, the former being illegal, of course, but the point is that Entei is no slouch. I mean, we're talking a Turn 4 kill just by struggling the opponent into submission. (I know this because we tested it this last summer. Who, how, and why will be left out since the other parties wish to remain anonymous because of the shame they felt in having "Papa," the hacked Entei, struggle their properly-EV'd Deoxys to death. ^^; )

[Raptor Jesus]

To be quite honest, Entei has enough trouble switching in on a lot (no Flash Fire, unlike Arcanine!), so as Talon said, it really has no free turn to do something like Howl or Swords Dance. In addition, it lacks versatility, even with the list of moves you list. Wasting a turn on Howl will not help you take down a tankish Water type, which are super common.

Some Pokemon use Meditate and Howl instead of Swords Dance (mostly because they don't have Swords Dance), like uh... Electivire and Exploud... and Mightyena.... :x

[Kindrindra]

Then how in frells name does Infernape find enough time to NP/SD?

115/85/75 defenses aren't exactly bad.

[Rangeetsuper]

People are scared and want to switch out to something that "walls" it.

[Raptor Jesus]

Then how in frells name does Infernape find enough time to NP/SD?

115/85/75 defenses aren't exactly bad.

Fire/Fighting/Rock is a more deadly combination of attacks than Fire/Rock/Normal.

In addition, Infernape does in fact have Swords Dance, which is bigger boost than Howl in this situation.

307 + SD = 614 Atk
329 + Howl = 493 Atk

That's a big difference. With over 600 ATK and a STAB Fighting attack, Infernape can much more easily break a counter than Entei, who only has STAB on Flare Blitz and has no real diversity.

[Kindrindra]

See what you mean- Entei just isn't threatening enough after a Howl.

Choice Band it is.

[Jerichi]

A fun report from some Gen V experience - Stealth Rock is much less of a concern due to poorer distribution, so Flare Blitz Entei might actually have some use! Provided you play Gen V.

Though it still won't switch in too well since its defenses are marginal.

[ObviousUser2010]

I pre-ordered both gen 5 games and will likely have to switch over my guys from soul silver and heart gold to either game. I do have a legit Arceus that I may transfer over to B & W,

[Talon87]

[COLOR="YellowGreen"]A fun report from some Gen V experience - Stealth Rock is much less of a concern due to poorer distribution, so Flare Blitz Entei might actually have some use! Provided you play Gen V.
Define "Gen V experience." Stealth Rock is alive and well competitively on Internet sims where it's well-assumed that the relevant 'mons you'll be trading over from 4th Gen to 5th Gen will all have Stealth Rock. The only people who don't get Stealth Rock are (a) 5th Gen creatures and (b) anyone else who has an absolute must-have new ability or new move which thereby blocks 'em from knowing Stealth Rock too.

Believe me when I say I wish Stealth Rock wasn't relevant to the 5th Gen metagame. :| But it's as big a threat now as it was last summer. Blocking importation of the TM did not mean blocking importation of creatures who knew the move to begin with.

This is the same thing I have to bring up against opponents who get pissy when my Mamoswine OHKOs their Tyranitars with Superpower. "You're not supposed to have that move! >(" they seem to think. Right: because I'm totally going to pick 5th Gen Thick Fat and no Stealth Rock or Superpower over picking 4th Gen Snow Cloak (meh) with Superpower and Stealth Rock. :roll:

[Jerichi]

Define "Gen V experience." Stealth Rock is alive and well competitively on Internet sims where it's well-assumed that the relevant 'mons you'll be trading over from 4th Gen to 5th Gen will all have Stealth Rock. The only people who don't get Stealth Rock are (a) 5th Gen creatures and (b) anyone else who has an absolute must-have new ability or new move which thereby blocks 'em from knowing Stealth Rock too.
Provided, I've only had about a week of experience, but I've seen quite a few teams and only a few revolve around Stealth Rock, not necessarily because of the fact that it's inaccessible (though it obviously has less of a spread, proportionately), but because a lot of powerhouse Pokemon can shrug it off and Spikes works a bit better overall.

Also, a lot of Fires are made pretty usable thanks to the fact that Sun teams actually work now. I've been running a Drought team primarily and actually been pulling off some wins with a team of rather uncommon Fire Pokemon. Maybe it's because I have a Spinner, but Stealth Rock has rarely ruined my sweeps or torn my team apart and I have at least 3 Fires on my Sun teams.

>Believe me when I say I wish Stealth Rock wasn't relevant to the 5th Gen metagame. But it's as big a threat now as it was last summer. Blocking importation of the TM did not mean blocking importation of creatures who knew the move to begin with.

It's definitely not irrelevant (I still have been using Stealth Rock, even sometimes on two Pokemon, on a couple of teams) but it's not quite as prominent. Stealth Rocks aren't always thrown out and fewer leads tend to Stealth Rock right away. Since only four Gen V Pokemon have access to Stealth Rock (and none of them are really good Stealth Rockers), there really isn't an expansion on threats for Rockers.

[Raptor Jesus]

Ah. I see what Jeri means. Stealth Rock is no longer a TM in Gen 5, so only imported Pokemon from Gen 4 will have any Stealth Rock usage in numbers. And by giving your Pokemon a new egg move from Gen 5, you make Stealth Rock illegal on a possible import.

But knowing Nintendo, the 3rd game in the B/W series will have a Stealth Rock Move Tutor or something. :x

[Talon87]

Also, a lot of Fires are made pretty usable thanks to the fact that Sun teams actually work now. I've been running a Drought team primarily and actually been pulling off some wins with a team of rather uncommon Fire Pokemon. Maybe it's because I have a Spinner, but Stealth Rock has rarely ruined my sweeps or torn my team apart and I have at least 3 Fires on my Sun teams.
Drought teams are fine but they're no Sandstorm nor Drizzle team. The latter, I hear, was recently banned on Smogon in conjunction with Swift Swim because they decided they were sick and tired of people spamming Drizzle Politoed + Swift Swim Kingdra on teams. Fire notably lacks Chlorophyll (which, as the name suggests, is a Grass-type-only boon) so it's not like they get both the power boost and the speed boost. If they did, there'd be a lot more bitching about Drought as well, I wager.

But Sandstorm got a disastrously nasty little toy in the mole this generation. Holy shit: the sand equivalent of Swift Swim is not even anywhere near funny. Doryuuzu (or whatever we'll be calling him now that English names are out) is one hell of annoying and powerful sweeper. Huge attack, huge defense, and Sand Rush (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sand_Rush_%28ability%29) for a speed that lets him outpace even unscarfed Starmies and Gengars? Ridiculous. He is the reason I now run a weather move on one guy (e.g. Rain Dance Jolteon): just so I can get rid of sandstorm. If Drizzle + Kingdra is bad, Sandstream + Doryuuzu is ten times worse. At least it has been in my experience.

[Kindrindra]

Yeah, you don't see suicide SE leads as much in Gen V. I think it's less because it's not a TM anymore, and more because of Magic Mirror, improved Magic Coat, Something I'm forgetting (just watch- this was the most important thing), and the fact that Doryuuzu gets Rapid Spin (though SD variants are used much more).

[Talon87]

Nobody runs Magic Coat Espeon any more. It was a short-lived gimmick that was quickly defused once two things happened:

a) generally, people realized that as much as we'd love Espeon to rock, the psychic feline still doesn't rock. =\ It isn't worth a team slot to have her onboard just to "Niener, niener, niener! =P" the other guy about his Stealth Rocks being bounced back at him.

b) specific to WiFi battles, the moment you see Espeon is even on the other guy's team, you simply know not to Stealth Rock until you've taken Espeon out or until you feel comfortable doing it unpredictably, believing your opponent will not see it coming.

Also, I'll say it again: just because Stealth Rock isn't a TM anymore doesn't mean that this explains why you'd see a drop in its use in the competitive scene. To explain a drop in Stealth Rock use, you have to explain a drop in the use of Stealth Rock on 4th gen movesets belonging to 4th gen creatures. So this is not the answer and it really needs to quit being brought up. Yes, it explains why few 5th gen creatures run Stealth Rock. No, it doesn't explain why you don't see Infernape, Azelf, Mamoswine, or Hippowdon using Stealth Rock much anymore.*

* "anymore" according to you guys. I still see plenty of Hippowdons using Stealth Rock. My Mamoswine on P-O uses Stealth Rock. I don't see Infernape or Azelf period anymore. But there are plenty of others who run Stealth Rock.

EDIT: what was I thinking. -_-; You guys kept suggesting it and I just believed you, but ... "no good 5th gen Pokemon can use SR well?" Uhh, Ferrothorn (alias Nattorei) would like a word with you, Jeri. I see SR-packing Ferrothorns on P-O all the time. All the time. (Pokedex reveals it's an egg move for Ferrothorn. Figures. But he can learn it and oh does he use it!)

[Kindrindra]

>Nobody runs Magic Mirror Espeon anymore

Okay, that's just not true. Magic Mirror Espeon's value isn't in that it can reflect rocks onto your opponent's side- It's that the fear of that stops the opponent from doing so. It's all mindgames. The ability to shut down many Mischievous Heart users is just a bonus.

And, yes, that's exactly my point- bulky pokemon like Hippowdon and Nattetori still run it, but suicide leads are almost non-existent. Stealth Rock is still used, but it isn't as prevalent as in Gen IV- you can actually go up to three battles without seeing it.


In other news, Nattetori is awesome. Spikes, Stealth Rock, Leech Seed, stats that will keep it a premier wall for a long time to come, and the ability to deal some damage with Power Whip and Gyro Ball. Speaking of ability, Iron Barbs is likely one of the best abilities in the game on them.

[Jerichi]

>Also, I'll say it again: just because Stealth Rock isn't a TM anymore doesn't mean that this explains why you'd see a drop in its use in the competitive scene.

That's only like half my point.

>EDIT: what was I thinking. -_-; You guys kept suggesting it and I just believed you, but ... "no good 5th gen Pokemon can use SR well?" Uhh, Ferrothorn (alias Nattorei) would like a word with you, Jeri. I see SR-packing Ferrothorns on P-O all the time. All the time. (Pokedex reveals it's an egg move for Ferrothorn. Figures. But he can learn it and oh does he use it!)

Ferrothorn is a decent SR-er but honestly runs Spikes a bit better since its staying power can let it throw down two layers if it's switched in right. Again, I'm not saying Stealth Rock is irrelevant to the metagame but it's not as wildly centralizing. It's definitely an important element but there are now ways to pull out Fires and Flyers who simply couldn't show up because they feared SR too much. I personally have seen a slight favoring of Spikes, though I think it's probably a bit of an ironic point to make, mostly since the reason it works better is because the ones who are immune to it were driven out by Stealth Rock in the first place.

And I'll definitely agree with you: Sun is no Sandstorm. I have had many a sweep and a game ruined by a Tyranitar. The one thing I like (and honestly prefer) about Drought teams is that since abilities relating to the sun are a bit spread between Fire and Grass, you can have a bit less of a predictable team. However, that is a bit of a problem at the same time since Ninetales doesn't really stand up well against T-Tar, making Sandstorm a huge problem.

[Talon87]

>Nobody runs Magic Mirror Espeon anymore

Okay, that's just not true.

Sorry, but it is true, thank you very much. Play more, speculate less.

Will PM you the rest. Getting off topic here.

[Raptor Jesus]

I almost forgot about Celebi. Anyone get one yet?

[Kindrindra]

I'm getting one Sunday. That's right, the very last day of distribution. I'm riskay.

[Talon87]

Can we get it online, or do we have to go to a GameStop to get it?

[Raptor Jesus]

So far everything seems to say Gamestop. By that, I meant I only checked Bulbapedia.

[Raptor Jesus]

GDI. The local Gamestop relocated like 2 blocks and their new location's internet was not yet ready, which meant no Celebi. /sigh/ Gotta call the others and check if they have it as well.